Anybody raced Audi S4?
05-11-2001, 09:25 AM
#41
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Having driven both, i think anyone who thinks they can take the S4, automatic or manual needs a head examination.
The biggest advantage is the all wheel drive, the car launches like a bat out of hell and keeps going.
Dont get me wrong, im not knocking the TLS at all, im selling my audi to GET a TLS... but racing an s4 in a tls is just not a good idea.
The biggest advantage is the all wheel drive, the car launches like a bat out of hell and keeps going.
Dont get me wrong, im not knocking the TLS at all, im selling my audi to GET a TLS... but racing an s4 in a tls is just not a good idea.
05-11-2001, 09:25 AM
#42
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Another S4 owner chimes in....
I have a 2000 S4 6-speed chipped. Before that, I have had a variety of performance sedans, including:
99 Maxima SE 5-Speed
99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 (AWD,AWS,Turbo,5-speed)
88 Mazda GT (turbo, 5-speed)
88 Mazda GTX (Turbo, AWD, 5-speed)
I also looked at a TL before I got my Maxima, but the lack of a manual turned me off. Otherwise, I loved the TL and would have bought one. The newest Autoweek definitely states that a 6-speed TL-S will be available this year. That doesn't make it true though.
The S4 is a VERY heavy car, with a very torquey motor. I wouldn't be surprised if a TL-S could hang with a stock 6-Speed S4, and if a 6-Speed TL-S could beat a stock 6-speed S4. I find it odd that nobody has talked about weight - because in my mind that is the S4's biggest failing - TOO HEAVY!
Of my past cars, all but one of which were sedans, I have seen som patterns. 2WD cars FEEL faster than AWD, especially in the steering responsiveness. I think the momentum of all the drivetrain stuff in AWD cars damps their response and makes them much "smoother", which makes them seem less powerful. However, how something feels has little to do with how it will fair in a race - especially a drag race. My fastest cars were not necessarily the ones that were the most fun to drive. In my experience, fun to drive equates with 2WD and light weight. (can you say Miata?). But this has nothing to do with ET's and Trap Speeds.
On a different note, I really like the TL, and find it's interior to be very comfy. The A-4/S-4 back seat is a joke. I looked at them before I bought my Maxima, but picked the Maxima because it was fun to drive AND had a big back seat (just like a TL), and it had a manual (unlike a TL). If a TL Manual had been available, I would never have gotten the S4. The back seat is a tradeoff I decided to make after I had had my Maxima for about 2 years and had carried passengers in the back about 4 times.
Dave
I have a 2000 S4 6-speed chipped. Before that, I have had a variety of performance sedans, including:
99 Maxima SE 5-Speed
99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 (AWD,AWS,Turbo,5-speed)
88 Mazda GT (turbo, 5-speed)
88 Mazda GTX (Turbo, AWD, 5-speed)
I also looked at a TL before I got my Maxima, but the lack of a manual turned me off. Otherwise, I loved the TL and would have bought one. The newest Autoweek definitely states that a 6-speed TL-S will be available this year. That doesn't make it true though.
The S4 is a VERY heavy car, with a very torquey motor. I wouldn't be surprised if a TL-S could hang with a stock 6-Speed S4, and if a 6-Speed TL-S could beat a stock 6-speed S4. I find it odd that nobody has talked about weight - because in my mind that is the S4's biggest failing - TOO HEAVY!
Of my past cars, all but one of which were sedans, I have seen som patterns. 2WD cars FEEL faster than AWD, especially in the steering responsiveness. I think the momentum of all the drivetrain stuff in AWD cars damps their response and makes them much "smoother", which makes them seem less powerful. However, how something feels has little to do with how it will fair in a race - especially a drag race. My fastest cars were not necessarily the ones that were the most fun to drive. In my experience, fun to drive equates with 2WD and light weight. (can you say Miata?). But this has nothing to do with ET's and Trap Speeds.
On a different note, I really like the TL, and find it's interior to be very comfy. The A-4/S-4 back seat is a joke. I looked at them before I bought my Maxima, but picked the Maxima because it was fun to drive AND had a big back seat (just like a TL), and it had a manual (unlike a TL). If a TL Manual had been available, I would never have gotten the S4. The back seat is a tradeoff I decided to make after I had had my Maxima for about 2 years and had carried passengers in the back about 4 times.
Dave
05-11-2001, 09:45 AM
#43
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Tiptronic stock S4 actually runs ~6.4 adn 14.7-14.8 1/4. Was with one at Pomona on a 90 degree day and it ran 14.8. An even closer race would be a stock A6 2.7T Tip. Its numbers are 6.5 and 15.1 1/4 mile.
I own a slow A6 2.7T tip. I wish I could join in whether on a track or 1/4 mile. It would be fun.
Looked at the TL-S last week, was thinking maybe for a second car. Then again maybe the Acura MDX(?), the suv.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by ming 2.7T on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>
I own a slow A6 2.7T tip. I wish I could join in whether on a track or 1/4 mile. It would be fun.
Looked at the TL-S last week, was thinking maybe for a second car. Then again maybe the Acura MDX(?), the suv.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by ming 2.7T on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>
05-11-2001, 10:01 AM
#44
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Guys,
Come now. My folks have a 2001 TL. Not a type S. I can imagine the Type S would be really nice though.
That being said, its like our comparisons on Audiworld between the S4 and the E46 M3. I think the cars were made with different focuses in mind. The E46 M3 is pure flat out edge-of-seat race feel. The S4 tries to moderate that with bit of a cut on the edge and a boost onto luxury. I think the Acura goes a step further to luxury and away from Sport. But when you look at these cars, it is all a matter of what you want as a consumer.
I picked the S4 because I hate automatic, I wanted quattro, and I wanted something that really moves and does it smoothly. The S4 fit the bill... for me. That might not be the case for anyone else, but all I care about is myself (hey, I'm a selfish prick).
Always remember why you plopped down you cash in the first place and you'll always be happy. Hell, if you look at my above reasons for getting the S4, you could say, "Why didn't he get a 996 Twin Turbo?" Well, maybe one day.
Come now. My folks have a 2001 TL. Not a type S. I can imagine the Type S would be really nice though.
That being said, its like our comparisons on Audiworld between the S4 and the E46 M3. I think the cars were made with different focuses in mind. The E46 M3 is pure flat out edge-of-seat race feel. The S4 tries to moderate that with bit of a cut on the edge and a boost onto luxury. I think the Acura goes a step further to luxury and away from Sport. But when you look at these cars, it is all a matter of what you want as a consumer.
I picked the S4 because I hate automatic, I wanted quattro, and I wanted something that really moves and does it smoothly. The S4 fit the bill... for me. That might not be the case for anyone else, but all I care about is myself (hey, I'm a selfish prick).
Always remember why you plopped down you cash in the first place and you'll always be happy. Hell, if you look at my above reasons for getting the S4, you could say, "Why didn't he get a 996 Twin Turbo?" Well, maybe one day.
05-11-2001, 12:01 PM
#45
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Originally posted by lovemytls:
True an S4 is faster than a TLS, but there's no way it's a whole second faster in 0-60. (see May issue of Motor Trend)
S4 0-60 in 5.9 sec
TLS 0-60 in 6.28 sec
Difference = .38 sec
True an S4 is faster than a TLS, but there's no way it's a whole second faster in 0-60. (see May issue of Motor Trend)
S4 0-60 in 5.9 sec
TLS 0-60 in 6.28 sec
Difference = .38 sec
Does Motor Tred publish all the performance/acceleration stats for the TLS? Can't find it on motortrend.com or anywhere else for that matter. Dying to see a full road test and can't locate one anywhere. Maybe it's only in the print edition of MT? Let me know, thanks!
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tblvinnie08
2002 Type-S
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05-11-2001, 12:10 PM
#46
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I have raced both the CL-S and TL-S. Let me say that when I was stock, both cars gave me a run for the money, very close, but I still came out the winner. I am not putting down the Acura in ANY WAY. It is a beautiful car. But a chipped S4 will dominate the street BY FAR. NO CONTEST!
Please no flames on the handle. I use that name primarily on ITRs and such who think they can beat V8 boy on a periodic basis.
I think the exhaust, intake, and headers will greatly improve the performance of the Acura. But it will still be no match for the S. Sorry. The torque still isn't enough for the Acura.
Please no flames on the handle. I use that name primarily on ITRs and such who think they can beat V8 boy on a periodic basis.
I think the exhaust, intake, and headers will greatly improve the performance of the Acura. But it will still be no match for the S. Sorry. The torque still isn't enough for the Acura.
05-11-2001, 12:30 PM
#47
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A few facts you might want to consider when comparing an audi S4 and a TL-S.
Weight: S4 six speed- 3574LBS (with heavy AWD)
TL-S - 3574LBS
-83% of all S4's sold so far are 6-spds.
-I would estimate that at least 50% of all S4's are chipped, considering how many chipped cars run through our local dealer and how many chipped cars are at audiworld.com.
The S4 is the first and only porduction car in the world to have a five valve, six cyl Twin Turbo, Twin Intercooled motor.
The S4 is a 5.5-5.9 0-60 car, compared to the TL-S being a 6.2-6.5 second car. This may not seem a like a lot of difference, but considering every 10th is worth about a car length, giving up 3-6 car lengths in the first six seconds is a pretty strong beating. A stock S4 six speed is capable of a 13.9 quarter mile at 100mph (have done this myself). A TL-S is a 14.6-15.2 second quarter mile car, and yes, these are magazine numbers and my experiences at Great Lakes Dragaway, in Union Grove, WI, where I spend many a summer night. A 13.9-14.0 second quarter vs a 14.6-15.0 is 8-14 car lenghts.
A few other stats: The S4 haas 13.1" brakes in the front, 11.9 in the rear. The TL-S has 11.8's in the front, 11" in the rear. This is a significant difference. The larger size offers far greater fade resistance and better overall breaking.
The S4 has 250hp (according to Audi, which, is supposedly under rated by approx. 25 hp) and 258Lbs of torque. The TL-S has 260hp and 232LBSof torque. If the S4 has such less HP and a little more torque, the speed should be similair (S4 tip to TL-S). But they aren't. Either the S4 is underrated or the TL-S is overrated. I assume the S4 is overrated, as the TL-S holds it's own against other cars in the same HP/Torque ratings and many dyno tests of stock cars have proved that S4 to be 265-275hp stock.
The price of the S4 is not $14000 more, but more like $7570. The TL-S base price is $31,230 vs the S4's $38,800. I own a fully equipped (Nav, and every other option except the phone) 6-sp and paid $38,875 for the car in November of 1999.
Other things to note:
-The audi has AWD, a serious advantage in dry, wet, and especially in the snow (not of interest to everyone, but of strong interest to some). AWD allows zero slip at launch, zero slip when shifting and earlier application of the throttle out of a turn.
- The S4 has rear airbags, not available in the TL-S (also weighing more)
-The S4 has a 4yr/50,000 mile warranty with all regular service included. This even takes care of brakes, cluth, wipers, bulbs, oil changes, tire rotation, alignments, ect. How much is this worth over 50,000 miles? A couple of grand, at least.
-The S4 is offered with full roadside assistance included at no charge. Need a flat changed, run out of gas, lock yourself out, need to be pulled out of a ditch, it's free for the warranty period.
-Remember, the average S4 owners is not looking to carry four passengers five hours. He or she bought this car because for the same reason it came in best in it's class, according to Road and Track and Car and Driver (ahead of the M3 and C43). He or she wants a super fast, super strong handling, exceedingly responsive, fastest breaking, ergonomically sound car that came in #1 it's class in the world. The S4 owner is willing to give up a little ride comfort in exchange.
The TL-S is a wickedly fast, smooth, durable, reliable (more so than the audi, even in this audi biased reviewers mind),fun sedan. But it is not a C43, C32, M3, S4 eater or even of similair design or class, and acura did not aim it to be. Acura could easily make an S4 comeptitor is it wanted to, but it offered the TL-S with a softer suspension, smaller tires, and without a manual. It is softer, quieter, less responsive, less aggresive and slower car, but it is still faster than 98% of the cars on the road and a true sleeper. Have fun killing is 300's (often arrogant drivers adn the car really isn't fast!) , most 4.6 and 5.0 liter mustangs and every three series bar the 330 and the M3. The TL-S is a great touring sedan, but it falls behind the cars mentioned above when your talking sheer performance.
Mikessp
Weight: S4 six speed- 3574LBS (with heavy AWD)
TL-S - 3574LBS
-83% of all S4's sold so far are 6-spds.
-I would estimate that at least 50% of all S4's are chipped, considering how many chipped cars run through our local dealer and how many chipped cars are at audiworld.com.
The S4 is the first and only porduction car in the world to have a five valve, six cyl Twin Turbo, Twin Intercooled motor.
The S4 is a 5.5-5.9 0-60 car, compared to the TL-S being a 6.2-6.5 second car. This may not seem a like a lot of difference, but considering every 10th is worth about a car length, giving up 3-6 car lengths in the first six seconds is a pretty strong beating. A stock S4 six speed is capable of a 13.9 quarter mile at 100mph (have done this myself). A TL-S is a 14.6-15.2 second quarter mile car, and yes, these are magazine numbers and my experiences at Great Lakes Dragaway, in Union Grove, WI, where I spend many a summer night. A 13.9-14.0 second quarter vs a 14.6-15.0 is 8-14 car lenghts.
A few other stats: The S4 haas 13.1" brakes in the front, 11.9 in the rear. The TL-S has 11.8's in the front, 11" in the rear. This is a significant difference. The larger size offers far greater fade resistance and better overall breaking.
The S4 has 250hp (according to Audi, which, is supposedly under rated by approx. 25 hp) and 258Lbs of torque. The TL-S has 260hp and 232LBSof torque. If the S4 has such less HP and a little more torque, the speed should be similair (S4 tip to TL-S). But they aren't. Either the S4 is underrated or the TL-S is overrated. I assume the S4 is overrated, as the TL-S holds it's own against other cars in the same HP/Torque ratings and many dyno tests of stock cars have proved that S4 to be 265-275hp stock.
The price of the S4 is not $14000 more, but more like $7570. The TL-S base price is $31,230 vs the S4's $38,800. I own a fully equipped (Nav, and every other option except the phone) 6-sp and paid $38,875 for the car in November of 1999.
Other things to note:
-The audi has AWD, a serious advantage in dry, wet, and especially in the snow (not of interest to everyone, but of strong interest to some). AWD allows zero slip at launch, zero slip when shifting and earlier application of the throttle out of a turn.
- The S4 has rear airbags, not available in the TL-S (also weighing more)
-The S4 has a 4yr/50,000 mile warranty with all regular service included. This even takes care of brakes, cluth, wipers, bulbs, oil changes, tire rotation, alignments, ect. How much is this worth over 50,000 miles? A couple of grand, at least.
-The S4 is offered with full roadside assistance included at no charge. Need a flat changed, run out of gas, lock yourself out, need to be pulled out of a ditch, it's free for the warranty period.
-Remember, the average S4 owners is not looking to carry four passengers five hours. He or she bought this car because for the same reason it came in best in it's class, according to Road and Track and Car and Driver (ahead of the M3 and C43). He or she wants a super fast, super strong handling, exceedingly responsive, fastest breaking, ergonomically sound car that came in #1 it's class in the world. The S4 owner is willing to give up a little ride comfort in exchange.
The TL-S is a wickedly fast, smooth, durable, reliable (more so than the audi, even in this audi biased reviewers mind),fun sedan. But it is not a C43, C32, M3, S4 eater or even of similair design or class, and acura did not aim it to be. Acura could easily make an S4 comeptitor is it wanted to, but it offered the TL-S with a softer suspension, smaller tires, and without a manual. It is softer, quieter, less responsive, less aggresive and slower car, but it is still faster than 98% of the cars on the road and a true sleeper. Have fun killing is 300's (often arrogant drivers adn the car really isn't fast!) , most 4.6 and 5.0 liter mustangs and every three series bar the 330 and the M3. The TL-S is a great touring sedan, but it falls behind the cars mentioned above when your talking sheer performance.
Mikessp
05-11-2001, 12:30 PM
#48
I read on www.audiworld.com that if you chip your car -- the turbos develop so much more heat (S4) that you have to wait at least 120 seconds before shutting off your car after driving aggressively .. or just normal driving? Any truth to this?
05-11-2001, 12:39 PM
#49
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Originally posted by PeterUbers:
I read on www.audiworld.com that if you chip your car -- the turbos develop so much more heat (S4) that you have to wait at least 120 seconds before shutting off your car after driving aggressively .. or just normal driving? Any truth to this?
I read on www.audiworld.com that if you chip your car -- the turbos develop so much more heat (S4) that you have to wait at least 120 seconds before shutting off your car after driving aggressively .. or just normal driving? Any truth to this?
This would even benefit N/A engines as it lets the oil cool down some. If you let the engine idle a bit before shutting down. You will notice that when you idle at lights it'll be smoother. Shutting down an engine after running it is always stressful any engine type. Let them sit some then shut it down.
05-11-2001, 12:44 PM
#50
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Two things! One, an S4 Tiptronic is all of 150 lbs heavier than a TL-S, and an S4 6sp is 15 lbs heavier! So the weight issues are bs.
As for turbo heat, EVERY single turbo charged car I've owned (Saab SPG Turbo, Eclipse GSX, Porsche 911 Turbo) has had a warning in the manual to let the car idle before shutting down after agressive driving. This is purely a precaution. A turbo impeller spins at 80,000-150,000 rpm's during full boost, and is running on an oiled and very high quality bearing. When you shut off a turbo car right after it was in heavy boost, the impeller will continue to spin for 1-3 minutes, and can run out of lubrication, while at the same time being at a very high ambient temp (800-1300F is common). But if you idle the car for a minute or so, the impeller will be slowed by the idleing exhaust gas, and the turbo will be cooled by a continual flow of oil.
Any car running more boost will generate more heat and will therefore need more cooling. Most hich performance chipped cars run high grade synthetic, have an oil cooler and the owners, if smart, will idle them at shutdown, just as they should be gentle until the oil and water temps are up to a normal operating range.
Mikessp
As for turbo heat, EVERY single turbo charged car I've owned (Saab SPG Turbo, Eclipse GSX, Porsche 911 Turbo) has had a warning in the manual to let the car idle before shutting down after agressive driving. This is purely a precaution. A turbo impeller spins at 80,000-150,000 rpm's during full boost, and is running on an oiled and very high quality bearing. When you shut off a turbo car right after it was in heavy boost, the impeller will continue to spin for 1-3 minutes, and can run out of lubrication, while at the same time being at a very high ambient temp (800-1300F is common). But if you idle the car for a minute or so, the impeller will be slowed by the idleing exhaust gas, and the turbo will be cooled by a continual flow of oil.
Any car running more boost will generate more heat and will therefore need more cooling. Most hich performance chipped cars run high grade synthetic, have an oil cooler and the owners, if smart, will idle them at shutdown, just as they should be gentle until the oil and water temps are up to a normal operating range.
Mikessp
05-11-2001, 12:58 PM
#51
Mikessp:
Ok -- that's why I got the TL-S .. come to think of it. I respect the S4 as a nice car and all --> but I think the fact that Turbos = more maintenance than a N/A engine, and that Acuras are just more reliable in the long-run (I know what Audi reliability is like), and ..the fact that I can shut the engine down whenever I feel like it w/o waiting. The S4 vs. TL-S debate shouldn't even exist unless it's a friendly -- hey, I wonder who would win -- both cars are geared (no pun intended) for DIFFERENT types of people. S4 is an autoX racer -- as is the M3, and they are both totally made for different driving applications.
Ok -- that's why I got the TL-S .. come to think of it. I respect the S4 as a nice car and all --> but I think the fact that Turbos = more maintenance than a N/A engine, and that Acuras are just more reliable in the long-run (I know what Audi reliability is like), and ..the fact that I can shut the engine down whenever I feel like it w/o waiting. The S4 vs. TL-S debate shouldn't even exist unless it's a friendly -- hey, I wonder who would win -- both cars are geared (no pun intended) for DIFFERENT types of people. S4 is an autoX racer -- as is the M3, and they are both totally made for different driving applications.
05-11-2001, 01:04 PM
#52
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First off, it took you guys 7-8 miles to get up to this speed? Your words, a 7-8 mile highway. Secondly, why didn't you ask him if he backed off, he's a friend of yours, right?
It should take no more than one mile to hit both your top speeds from a stand still.
Just wondering, as it doesn't seem to make much sense!
Mikessp
It should take no more than one mile to hit both your top speeds from a stand still.
Just wondering, as it doesn't seem to make much sense!
Mikessp
05-11-2001, 06:54 PM
#53
It's funny how this topic started off by someone asking if he stood a chance against a "straight-line race" b/w an S4 and his TL-S --> Everyone on this board should be well aware of the huge huge huge advantages of RWD or AWD over the docile FWD system. The S4 and the M3 are great cars, in fact, I think they're .. right now .. probably in the top 5 in my book (rating value, performance, looks) .. But the TL-S is also up there in my top 5 'cuz of the VALUE VALUE VALUE .. heck, it's not that bad when a $30K Acura can "hang" with an auto S4, and an auto M3 --> that's not too shabby considering many people who were buying the TL-S probably considered less quick cars like the Lexus ES300 and the Infinit I30. This TL-S is the car you can give to your wife and baby to drive to the store, the day-care, and hell, while she's at it.. she can smoke some old 'stangs and Maximas (auto).
05-11-2001, 07:35 PM
#54
6G TLX-S
The S4 has a stiffer suspension and a lot less body sway than the TL-S. This gives the S4 a slight advantage in terms of cornering. But don't even think about racing the S4 in the wet, until Acura comes up with a 4wd sport sedan.
05-11-2001, 09:30 PM
#55
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Damn,
What is it with people and the "league" word they keep using? It seems like automotove journalists are the only ones to post on this board.
Anyway, I haven't seen any S4s flating around NJ, just a boatload of the A4 1.8 and 2.8 cars. I haven't raced one in my Camaro either, although it would be a losing proposition for them.
I see it this way, the Audi motor by itself is a boat anchor, but throw a pair of turbos on it and the car becomes fast. I'm not knocking Audi engines here, BTW. The same thing goes for that certain GM car called the GN, it was a sedate Regal, turning into a GN by slapping on a turbo (they only had one) and running 14.0 back in 1987 with an auto in a 3800lb car. All you need to do is throw about $800 of parts into a GN and they run in the 12's with ease. They don't handle very well, but ride like a Caddy.
This brings me to the S4: can a stock one beat a stock TL-S? Probably, but maybe 3 cars max if the person driving is an absolute pro. But it doesn't matter to me, anyway. The real question is can a moded S4 beat a moded TL-S? Absolutely. I can believe a moded S4 can run 13.1, a lot of moded 4wd turbo cars do. I don't see a moded TL-S with bolt-on parts doing that time (the speed maybe with a 75hp NOS hit).
The part I love is the fact that people bicker over getting beat, so they don't race, what kind of nonsense is that? Race and see who wins, nobody like an armchair racer.
The person who stated that a 1.3 second advantage is like 14 cars is full of it, its more like 7 or 8 cars with average vehicles (13 to 15 second range). Believe me, I've beaten other cars by 1 second and it was only about 6 car lengths.
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What is it with people and the "league" word they keep using? It seems like automotove journalists are the only ones to post on this board.
Anyway, I haven't seen any S4s flating around NJ, just a boatload of the A4 1.8 and 2.8 cars. I haven't raced one in my Camaro either, although it would be a losing proposition for them.
I see it this way, the Audi motor by itself is a boat anchor, but throw a pair of turbos on it and the car becomes fast. I'm not knocking Audi engines here, BTW. The same thing goes for that certain GM car called the GN, it was a sedate Regal, turning into a GN by slapping on a turbo (they only had one) and running 14.0 back in 1987 with an auto in a 3800lb car. All you need to do is throw about $800 of parts into a GN and they run in the 12's with ease. They don't handle very well, but ride like a Caddy.
This brings me to the S4: can a stock one beat a stock TL-S? Probably, but maybe 3 cars max if the person driving is an absolute pro. But it doesn't matter to me, anyway. The real question is can a moded S4 beat a moded TL-S? Absolutely. I can believe a moded S4 can run 13.1, a lot of moded 4wd turbo cars do. I don't see a moded TL-S with bolt-on parts doing that time (the speed maybe with a 75hp NOS hit).
The part I love is the fact that people bicker over getting beat, so they don't race, what kind of nonsense is that? Race and see who wins, nobody like an armchair racer.
The person who stated that a 1.3 second advantage is like 14 cars is full of it, its more like 7 or 8 cars with average vehicles (13 to 15 second range). Believe me, I've beaten other cars by 1 second and it was only about 6 car lengths.
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Paul's Home Page
05-11-2001, 10:48 PM
#56
Paul --
I think it's great to hear all the different opinions -- especially from S4 and BMW owners to hear what they think of their car, and to hear some of the facts and stats on their cars. Obviously, for everything TL-S owners know about their autos -- they'll know about theirs, and frankly it's eye-opening and fun.
I'll race anyone any chance I get -- under safe circumstances. I've backed down from street night races many times because of 1) cops, 2) traffic, 3) just felt uneasy. Otherwise, it's fair game! I'll comment on cars I've raced and beaten or lost to, and I think I think it's totally cool to come w/in 3 or 4 carlengths of a car at 100mph (from 0 or a rolling start) when I thought I'd lose by about 10!
I think it's great to hear all the different opinions -- especially from S4 and BMW owners to hear what they think of their car, and to hear some of the facts and stats on their cars. Obviously, for everything TL-S owners know about their autos -- they'll know about theirs, and frankly it's eye-opening and fun.
I'll race anyone any chance I get -- under safe circumstances. I've backed down from street night races many times because of 1) cops, 2) traffic, 3) just felt uneasy. Otherwise, it's fair game! I'll comment on cars I've raced and beaten or lost to, and I think I think it's totally cool to come w/in 3 or 4 carlengths of a car at 100mph (from 0 or a rolling start) when I thought I'd lose by about 10!
05-11-2001, 11:58 PM
#57
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OK, shut up everybody!!!
We raced last night, no money. He's got a stock S4 Automatic. We got on the highway that goes pretty straight for about 7-8 miles around 3:00 in the morning so there would be no car, and............
He smoked my ass from start, as I expected. At about 100mph I gained up on him, we were going next to each other. I don't know if he was too p*ssy to go faster, but at 130mph I was half a length ahead of him. We had to slow down because there is traffic light at then end of highway.
So the moral of this story is:
TL-S IS THE BEST CAR EVER MADE!!!!!
------------------
2002 TL-S Aegean Blue Pearl. Underbody Kit, Spoiler
"260 Horsepower of maximum performance. This is BLUE SUNSHINE!" - Thunderkiss '02
Sweet!!!
We raced last night, no money. He's got a stock S4 Automatic. We got on the highway that goes pretty straight for about 7-8 miles around 3:00 in the morning so there would be no car, and............
He smoked my ass from start, as I expected. At about 100mph I gained up on him, we were going next to each other. I don't know if he was too p*ssy to go faster, but at 130mph I was half a length ahead of him. We had to slow down because there is traffic light at then end of highway.
So the moral of this story is:
TL-S IS THE BEST CAR EVER MADE!!!!!
------------------
2002 TL-S Aegean Blue Pearl. Underbody Kit, Spoiler
"260 Horsepower of maximum performance. This is BLUE SUNSHINE!" - Thunderkiss '02
Sweet!!!
05-12-2001, 02:56 AM
#58
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My audi experience: I test drove both A4s and the S4 prior to my TLS buy. All were automatics. Perhaps this is related to altitude, Denver at 5300+ft, the driveabilty of the turbos was horrible at anything other than full throttle. The S4 felt slow off the line, probably due to the quattro more than weight, then at 4000-4200 rpm the turbos start solid boost and the car takes off. But without the pedal on the floor, the auto upshifts, and bam, back below boost rpms, and I'm waiting to get it up again.
Anyone have the torque curves?
The TLS has a drivability at any engine speed that makes it a much more comfortable car, if not just as fast. The only Audi I like is the A8, I've driven many miles in a friend's car, but the TLS has similar power, and better handling, though obviously a bit smaller and no quattro. And with 33000 miles his A8 is falling apart!
Anyone have the torque curves?
The TLS has a drivability at any engine speed that makes it a much more comfortable car, if not just as fast. The only Audi I like is the A8, I've driven many miles in a friend's car, but the TLS has similar power, and better handling, though obviously a bit smaller and no quattro. And with 33000 miles his A8 is falling apart!
05-13-2001, 12:43 AM
#60
I love the IS300's design (exterior only) and its current engine/chassis set-up. The current engine has been adopted from the '95-'98 Toyota Supra (I6 or V6??) --> it's a solid engine capable of holding up to the addition of one or two turbos (as in the case of the TT Supra drag racing monster). The car right now (the IS300) is a bit restrained by its automatic tranny since it only has 225 horsies .. but w/ the advent of the manual (later this fall), it'll show significant improvements in performance, it'll certainly put a bigger dent in the 330i sales, and I feel it'll perform just as well, with better ride quality -- something the 330i lacks, IMO. As far as comparing it w/ an S4 --> hehe, I'll save that comparison for some of the modded IS3XX monsters I've read about on www.is300.net --> some of these badboys are pushing out 500/600+ hp at the rear wheels.
05-13-2001, 01:58 PM
#61
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Originally posted by Mr.T:
Sup guys,
I know this is a little off topic but what about the Lexus IS?
Mr.T
Sup guys,
I know this is a little off topic but what about the Lexus IS?
Mr.T
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by csxpert on May 13, 2001 @ ]</font>
05-14-2001, 05:50 PM
#62
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Originally posted by lovemytls:
True an S4 is faster than a TLS, but there's no way it's a whole second faster in 0-60. (see May issue of Motor Trend)
S4 0-60 in 5.9 sec
TLS 0-60 in 6.28 sec
Difference = .38 sec
True an S4 is faster than a TLS, but there's no way it's a whole second faster in 0-60. (see May issue of Motor Trend)
S4 0-60 in 5.9 sec
TLS 0-60 in 6.28 sec
Difference = .38 sec
The S4 will smoke any TL.
05-14-2001, 06:02 PM
#63
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I'm guessing this was a manual or the TL-S would not have had to pass it from behind that far out. The Audi web site verifies this http://www.audiusa.com/cars/s4/specs.htm both the Tiptronic (0-60 in 6.5) or manual (0-60 in 5.9) S4 show 143 limit. The very low gearing of these cars would lead me to think this would be about right. The manual would be ahead until 140 something, the Tip would lose all the way... Perhaps the 160 is attributable to speedo error?
Regards
-w
Regards
-w
05-14-2001, 11:01 PM
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SSOKOL91,
The results you experienced should be about right. With lower gearing, manual and AWD the Audi should have beat you out of the hole. At the top end the Audi is limited to 143 so you should have walked away from him at that time. Lower gearing is great at sane speeds, but...
Congratulations on your S4 kill!
Regards
-w
The results you experienced should be about right. With lower gearing, manual and AWD the Audi should have beat you out of the hole. At the top end the Audi is limited to 143 so you should have walked away from him at that time. Lower gearing is great at sane speeds, but...
Congratulations on your S4 kill!
Regards
-w
05-15-2001, 10:15 AM
#66
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Originally posted by Webologist:
I'm guessing this was a manual or the TL-S would not have had to pass it from behind that far out. The Audi web site verifies this http://www.audiusa.com/cars/s4/specs.htm both the Tiptronic (0-60 in 6.5) or manual (0-60 in 5.9) S4 show 143 limit. The very low gearing of these cars would lead me to think this would be about right. The manual would be ahead until 140 something, the Tip would lose all the way... Perhaps the 160 is attributable to speedo error?
Regards
-w
I'm guessing this was a manual or the TL-S would not have had to pass it from behind that far out. The Audi web site verifies this http://www.audiusa.com/cars/s4/specs.htm both the Tiptronic (0-60 in 6.5) or manual (0-60 in 5.9) S4 show 143 limit. The very low gearing of these cars would lead me to think this would be about right. The manual would be ahead until 140 something, the Tip would lose all the way... Perhaps the 160 is attributable to speedo error?
Regards
-w
The 143 governer limiter is removed by the ECU upgrade. Or it can be removed by a simple bypass switch under the floorboard of the S4. While the numbers on paper don't lie, please always keep in mind that races include the factor of driver error in stock forms. What the TL-S may beat one day, it might not be able to the next. Both cars are excellent. Also remember that one costs heavily more than the other. If both cars are moded similarly, the S4 will win unless the the driver mis-shifts big time or something.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Vtec_Killer on May 15, 2001 @ ]</font>
05-15-2001, 10:51 AM
#67
MB-Fanatic w/TL-S
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Also some notes we should all consider...
1. Audi tends to under-rate their numbers(as do most of the German car makers).
2. As some members mentioned, most S4s are chipped, which would bump chipped S4 into 310hp/350lb-ft range. With that much power, even S4 Tip would be fast.
Most of other points are mentioned already(AWD, weight..etc), I would leave those alone..
Andy Kuo
1. Audi tends to under-rate their numbers(as do most of the German car makers).
2. As some members mentioned, most S4s are chipped, which would bump chipped S4 into 310hp/350lb-ft range. With that much power, even S4 Tip would be fast.
Most of other points are mentioned already(AWD, weight..etc), I would leave those alone..
Andy Kuo
05-15-2001, 10:58 AM
#68
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Originally posted by lovemytls:
True an S4 is faster than a TLS, but there's no way it's a whole second faster in 0-60. (see May issue of Motor Trend)
S4 0-60 in 5.9 sec
TLS 0-60 in 6.28 sec
Difference = .38 sec
True an S4 is faster than a TLS, but there's no way it's a whole second faster in 0-60. (see May issue of Motor Trend)
S4 0-60 in 5.9 sec
TLS 0-60 in 6.28 sec
Difference = .38 sec
05-15-2001, 02:34 PM
#69
Uh-oh -- N/A vs. Forced induction .. here we go!!
I still don't care what anyone says -- $30K for a car that'll run w/ $40K cars (TLS) -- I'm happy. Plus it looks cool as hell. S4 --> great car -- maybe when i'm in the market for a Sunday car and I have $40K to spend, I'll consider it.
I still don't care what anyone says -- $30K for a car that'll run w/ $40K cars (TLS) -- I'm happy. Plus it looks cool as hell. S4 --> great car -- maybe when i'm in the market for a Sunday car and I have $40K to spend, I'll consider it.
05-15-2001, 03:45 PM
#70
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Originally posted by Turboara:
IMHO, the S4 engine is quite an underperformer.
IMHO, the S4 engine is quite an underperformer.
You really feel this way? I believe Audi has put the turbos in the vehicle not for added horsepower, but for added torque. The turbos spool quite quickly which gives the S4 a monstrous amount of torque in the bottom end and is almost linear to the red line. It's not an underperformer, but an overachiever. How many other V6s can boast torque curves like the S4? Straight line driving is fine, but what about having power coming out of the turns? After all, having gobs of torque to pull out of a corner is where a lot of the fun is at!
It's true about voiding warranties, but how can you be an enthusiast about a car when you're too afraid to mod it? The way I see it, If you're afraid of something breaking and can't afford to fix it, get something that suites your price range more. Cause when your warranty expires, you'll have to pay for it then anyway, right?
Don't take this post as a flame, just another point of view. Please note in no way did I bag on your ride.
05-15-2001, 03:47 PM
#71
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Originally posted by Turboara:
Some of this talk about how amazing the S4 is getting out of hand. IMHO, the S4 engine is quite an underperformer.
A TL-S has a normally aspirated V6 engine and produces 260hp.
The S4 also has a V6 engine.....
and 2 turbos, 2 intercoolers, and 5 valves per cylinder, yet produces only 250hp
What was Audi thinking?? Maybe they know something we don't.
Some of this talk about how amazing the S4 is getting out of hand. IMHO, the S4 engine is quite an underperformer.
A TL-S has a normally aspirated V6 engine and produces 260hp.
The S4 also has a V6 engine.....
and 2 turbos, 2 intercoolers, and 5 valves per cylinder, yet produces only 250hp
What was Audi thinking?? Maybe they know something we don't.
Originally posted by Turboara:
And if you say that modding an S4 gets great hp gains, that's quite true, but again IMHO you gotta be out of your mind to mod a $45,000 car, void your warranty and risk extremely expensive repairs.
And if you say that modding an S4 gets great hp gains, that's quite true, but again IMHO you gotta be out of your mind to mod a $45,000 car, void your warranty and risk extremely expensive repairs.
Originally posted by Turboara:
If your going to spend a few extra grand over the S4 to make it faster, you might as well save a bit more and get the GS 430 (pause to drool).
If your going to spend a few extra grand over the S4 to make it faster, you might as well save a bit more and get the GS 430 (pause to drool).
You're funny. In no way to I believe the S4 is the greatest car around. I believe it's a good car for the price...even better is it fit my needs exactly.
------------------
05-15-2001, 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by PeterUbers:
I still don't care what anyone says -- $30K for a car that'll run w/ $40K cars (TLS) -- I'm happy. Plus it looks cool as hell.
I still don't care what anyone says -- $30K for a car that'll run w/ $40K cars (TLS) -- I'm happy. Plus it looks cool as hell.
Originally posted by PeterUbers:
S4 --> great car -- maybe when i'm in the market for a Sunday car and I have $40K to spend, I'll consider it.
S4 --> great car -- maybe when i'm in the market for a Sunday car and I have $40K to spend, I'll consider it.
I'm not saying anything negative about the TL-S...it's a nice car. I'll probably consider it when it's time for my future wife to get a new car.
05-15-2001, 03:57 PM
#73
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Wow, I think I'm an expert on the S4 now!
About the IS, I was very excited about this car until... I saw the interior. In one word, classless. And tacky. A very un-Lexus-like interior w/ ugly gauges, cheap looking chrome everywhere and silver racing pedals from GrandAuto. If they would have just taken, say, a GS interior and changed it a little, it would have been a great (albeit small) interior.
The exterior... some people love it, some people hate it. Looks a bit too small for my taste, but its still a head turner and a nice car.
I like the RWD/inline (easily modified) 6 that they have, but it doesnt produce enough power (225 HP, mid to low 7 second 0-60=SLOW) for such a fast looking car. It desperately needs that stick. If this cars sole purpose was to compete with the 330 (and that IS the sole purpose), then why the hell didnt they offer a stick off the bat? They know that car and driver will NEVER give the nod to the IS if it has an auto. Anyway, I digress...
The IS is still a nice car, but its a bit too small with an ugly interior. And its slightly underpowered (but mods are aplent, from what I hear, if you want to spend the $$$).
Oh yeah... Peter, you're right. The 330 has a very OVERRATED ride. Definitely very good handling, but the ride is not even close to smooth. You can feel every bump and its not better than my Mustang! WTF?
About the IS, I was very excited about this car until... I saw the interior. In one word, classless. And tacky. A very un-Lexus-like interior w/ ugly gauges, cheap looking chrome everywhere and silver racing pedals from GrandAuto. If they would have just taken, say, a GS interior and changed it a little, it would have been a great (albeit small) interior.
The exterior... some people love it, some people hate it. Looks a bit too small for my taste, but its still a head turner and a nice car.
I like the RWD/inline (easily modified) 6 that they have, but it doesnt produce enough power (225 HP, mid to low 7 second 0-60=SLOW) for such a fast looking car. It desperately needs that stick. If this cars sole purpose was to compete with the 330 (and that IS the sole purpose), then why the hell didnt they offer a stick off the bat? They know that car and driver will NEVER give the nod to the IS if it has an auto. Anyway, I digress...
The IS is still a nice car, but its a bit too small with an ugly interior. And its slightly underpowered (but mods are aplent, from what I hear, if you want to spend the $$$).
Oh yeah... Peter, you're right. The 330 has a very OVERRATED ride. Definitely very good handling, but the ride is not even close to smooth. You can feel every bump and its not better than my Mustang! WTF?
Originally posted by PeterUbers:
I love the IS300's design (exterior only) and its current engine/chassis set-up. The current engine has been adopted from the '95-'98 Toyota Supra (I6 or V6??) --> it's a solid engine capable of holding up to the addition of one or two turbos (as in the case of the TT Supra drag racing monster). The car right now (the IS300) is a bit restrained by its automatic tranny since it only has 225 horsies .. but w/ the advent of the manual (later this fall), it'll show significant improvements in performance, it'll certainly put a bigger dent in the 330i sales, and I feel it'll perform just as well, with better ride quality -- something the 330i lacks, IMO. As far as comparing it w/ an S4 --> hehe, I'll save that comparison for some of the modded IS3XX monsters I've read about on www.is300.net --> some of these badboys are pushing out 500/600+ hp at the rear wheels.
I love the IS300's design (exterior only) and its current engine/chassis set-up. The current engine has been adopted from the '95-'98 Toyota Supra (I6 or V6??) --> it's a solid engine capable of holding up to the addition of one or two turbos (as in the case of the TT Supra drag racing monster). The car right now (the IS300) is a bit restrained by its automatic tranny since it only has 225 horsies .. but w/ the advent of the manual (later this fall), it'll show significant improvements in performance, it'll certainly put a bigger dent in the 330i sales, and I feel it'll perform just as well, with better ride quality -- something the 330i lacks, IMO. As far as comparing it w/ an S4 --> hehe, I'll save that comparison for some of the modded IS3XX monsters I've read about on www.is300.net --> some of these badboys are pushing out 500/600+ hp at the rear wheels.
05-15-2001, 05:25 PM
#74
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I figured TURBOARA's post would pull em out of the woodwork. I think all he was trying to say is that there are two ways to speed. Good engineering and barring that, pressurize it and gear it low ;-)
Just kidding of course. The S4 is a wonderful car and I understand why its supporters are enamored with it. The TL-S is also a wonderful car. In both cases nearly everyone we race disappears into the rearviews. This is awesome and it's easy to get behind our respective rides. I'm sure S4 owners will look for Acuras to race and I'm equally sure the TL-S crowd will hunt Audis. We're all members of the brotherhood of speed. Oops there I go with a Driven quote...
Regards
-w
Just kidding of course. The S4 is a wonderful car and I understand why its supporters are enamored with it. The TL-S is also a wonderful car. In both cases nearly everyone we race disappears into the rearviews. This is awesome and it's easy to get behind our respective rides. I'm sure S4 owners will look for Acuras to race and I'm equally sure the TL-S crowd will hunt Audis. We're all members of the brotherhood of speed. Oops there I go with a Driven quote...
Regards
-w
05-15-2001, 10:43 PM
#75
Banned
damn i just realized that under this topic there are 74 posts....must be some sort of record...
------------------
2002 TL Type-S
Satin Silver, Ebony Interior w/out nav
------------------
2002 TL Type-S
Satin Silver, Ebony Interior w/out nav
05-15-2001, 10:52 PM
#76
4DrAssassin:
You're reading way too far into my posts --> if you want to start a flame war --> look somewhere else, I've already stated I think the S4 is a great car, and I also believe the '99 M3 is a great car, and I believe the TL-S is a great car. Yeesh, what part of "I think the S4 is a great car" is confusing you and inspiring you to revolt?? Rather than tell ME what to say, and how to say it in order to suit your needs, why don't you just assume I'm not bashing your car and then re-read my posts. You are perfectly free to say your car runs w/ cars costing .. $50K, .. $60K .. hell your modded car will outperform cars that cost $70K .. and up! You wanna be the big winner of that argument, fine! You just won, and you didn't have to say anything. All I was saying is .. I don't care to compare the TL-S to a AWD, Turbocharged 6-spd... hmmm.. how many people would think to compare the TL-S to a Porsche Carerra 4S?? Well, if you're comparin' the TL-S to an S4, you might as well compare it to the Porsche AWD Turbo (mechanistically speaking). I had $35K to spend on my new car .. and I would really have loved to have gotten a GS430 or an E430, but hell, I got a car w/ luxurious ammenities w/ performance in b/w the ES300 (which I considered for a long time) and both the E430 and GS430 .. for $30K.
Peace, brother.
Pete
You're reading way too far into my posts --> if you want to start a flame war --> look somewhere else, I've already stated I think the S4 is a great car, and I also believe the '99 M3 is a great car, and I believe the TL-S is a great car. Yeesh, what part of "I think the S4 is a great car" is confusing you and inspiring you to revolt?? Rather than tell ME what to say, and how to say it in order to suit your needs, why don't you just assume I'm not bashing your car and then re-read my posts. You are perfectly free to say your car runs w/ cars costing .. $50K, .. $60K .. hell your modded car will outperform cars that cost $70K .. and up! You wanna be the big winner of that argument, fine!
You just won, and you didn't have to say anything. All I was saying is .. I don't care to compare the TL-S to a AWD, Turbocharged 6-spd... hmmm.. how many people would think to compare the TL-S to a Porsche Carerra 4S?? Well, if you're comparin' the TL-S to an S4, you might as well compare it to the Porsche AWD Turbo (mechanistically speaking). I had $35K to spend on my new car .. and I would really have loved to have gotten a GS430 or an E430, but hell, I got a car w/ luxurious ammenities w/ performance in b/w the ES300 (which I considered for a long time) and both the E430 and GS430 .. for $30K. Peace, brother.
Pete
05-15-2001, 11:11 PM
#77
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PeterUbers:
Hey, I guess you took me wrong also. I am not trying to flame you in any way what so ever. I have no reason to flame. I was asking you what you meant by Sunday car? That's all. My bad on the miss communication. I know you're not bashing my car and I'm not bashing yours. You seem like a cool person, so no problem that I can see. So, sorry if I came off the wrong way. Sometimes things can be taken out of context when typed. Everything is cool with me.
Hey, I guess you took me wrong also. I am not trying to flame you in any way what so ever. I have no reason to flame. I was asking you what you meant by Sunday car? That's all. My bad on the miss communication. I know you're not bashing my car and I'm not bashing yours. You seem like a cool person, so no problem that I can see. So, sorry if I came off the wrong way. Sometimes things can be taken out of context when typed. Everything is cool with me.
05-15-2001, 11:38 PM
#78
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Some of this talk about how amazing the S4 is getting out of hand. IMHO, the S4 engine is quite an underperformer.
A TL-S has a normally aspirated V6 engine and produces 260hp.
The S4 also has a V6 engine.....
and 2 turbos, 2 intercoolers, and 5 valves per cylinder, yet produces only 250hp
What was Audi thinking?? Maybe they know something we don't.
And if you say that modding an S4 gets great hp gains, that's quite true, but again IMHO you gotta be out of your mind to mod a $45,000 car, void your warranty and risk extremely expensive repairs. If your going to spend a few extra grand over the S4 to make it faster, you might as well save a bit more and get the GS 430 (pause to drool).
------------------
- Nick, still shopping for an 02, w/ or w/out nav
A TL-S has a normally aspirated V6 engine and produces 260hp.
The S4 also has a V6 engine.....
and 2 turbos, 2 intercoolers, and 5 valves per cylinder, yet produces only 250hp
What was Audi thinking?? Maybe they know something we don't.
And if you say that modding an S4 gets great hp gains, that's quite true, but again IMHO you gotta be out of your mind to mod a $45,000 car, void your warranty and risk extremely expensive repairs. If your going to spend a few extra grand over the S4 to make it faster, you might as well save a bit more and get the GS 430 (pause to drool).
------------------
- Nick, still shopping for an 02, w/ or w/out nav
05-17-2001, 02:14 PM
#80
Guest
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Well this topic seems to capture a lot of interest with everyone. Watching Motorweek last night and they reviewed the Suburu Imprezzia(sp?) WRX. WOW is all I can say. For 23-24 Grand you get a car that can hang with the Audi S4 and most likely toast a TL-S. The thing does 0-60 in less than 6 seconds and has excellent handling due to all wheel drive. There are a lot of cool cars out there but I think this one really breaks the mold.