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Acura CL 2003 6 speed manual SWAP in a 2000 Acura TL
Hello to everyone
I have recently purchased an Acura CL 6-speed manual type S and I also have an Acura TL base model now the CL that I bought is in bad condition. It but if we're talking about the mechanic of the vehicle it's top-notch. I would like to know what do I need to do to swap over the CL Parts into the TL. Keep in mind I do not have a TL Type S so the wiring harness for an example in the dash would I have to swap that over, do I also have to swap ecu's or can I reprogram it, all those little things I would love to know and also I be very interested on live streaming this for all of you guys on the forum I know it's possible to do the swap I just want to know what I should look out for and what I should do. Keep in mind the transmission in my TL is gone at the point where 3rd gear doesn't exist. The CL I bought is not in any means in good condition in terms of the frame and body so I am not destroying a good clean CL don't worry I wouldn't have done that if it was clean. I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR that I am not destroying a clean CL this car is rotted from underneath just to give you a good example there is no brakes on this car and no power steering that was at least tell you how rotten the under of a vehicle is. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...2c6081b5dd.jpghttps://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...c0e5881622.jpghttps://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...11a758166e.jpghttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...0770c958bf.jpgDoing the swap to https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...433746ed9c.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...e330f1e3be.jpg |
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Search on the OP in the thread below. He and many others have done this swap. Everything you need to know to piece this swap together can, most likely, be found on this forum. Good Luck! https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...n-near-756856/ |
So update the motor has been fully pulled out from the Acura CL and is getting prepped and rebuild for the Acura TL swap, I have now put the handbrake in the Acura TL it is non-functional though I need to know what it'd be more worth it to make my own rod or can I find one of the correct length, the next thing to put is the clutch pedal. I'll be doing I have already removed the old foot break.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...74f9f5cc34.jpg I have never pulled a motor in my life this is the first time ever I did it and to do it right I had to buy an engine hoist. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...5bc413ee43.jpg |
You need the longer S2000 joint bolt 47146-S2A-000 .
If you go that route, you'll need to remove the CL-S6 E-Brake lever and cut the rivet to free the shorter joint bolt and swap the S2000 one. |
I replaced both parking brake lines with CLS6 to make it fit properly, but using the S2K rod seems easier if you're willing to cut the rivet.
I don't know your build details, but I'd urge you to use an AEM EMS 2 instead of changing all the wiring harnesses. |
I have never pulled a motor in my life this is the first time ever I did it and to do it right I had to buy an engine hoist. Wow What an accomplishment!! Congrats on the first motor pull! Frame this picture! |
Nice work..your pose reminded me of somebody...
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...a059a92939.jpg |
Now as we speak the entire clutch system is out of the CL and it's being tested in the TL and I can understand why installing a clutch pedal in a TL is complicated you don't have room to work.
for the shifter rod I will make my own I am not willing to pay $60 for an S2000 shifter rod that's ridiculous. |
Originally Posted by MaxBeast4Z
(Post 16603240)
for the shifter rod I will make my own I am not willing to pay $60 for an S2000 shifter rod that's ridiculous.
If that's the case, just swap the CL-S6's parking brake cables as Karanx7 suggested. :shrug: They are free. |
:popcorn:
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$60 is cheap!
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I remove the plate in the TL to discover the main holes that where the clutch is supposed to go.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...53ef8862e4.jpg |
Yea, I remember installing the clutch. I used two larger nuts in place of those spacers found on the CL firewall. No problem there, but you'll see there's a mounting bracket at the top of the clutch too. You will need to use a L bracket or something to bolt them together.
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Everything is working out so far for now I can understand why the clutch is the most complicated thing to install you also have to replace the brake pedal with the CL brake pedal I have already replaced the brake pedal I just haven't installed the clutch yet. I am now preparing the vehicle to remove the engine but before that can happen I need to finish up the engine rebuild on the j32a2, I did the oil pan with the rear main seal and the plate, I just have to wait for all of that stuff to dry. So far what has been done on the engine the head gaskets have been replaced the air intake gaskets have been replaced all the cooling system gaskets replaced next thing is to put the clutch and flywheel and then transmission.
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while you have it out, might as well be proactive and replace all the seals (cam, oil pump, vtec solenoid, crank, cam thrust).
Sorry if I missed it, what solution did you go with for the clutch pedal support? |
Originally Posted by whitetiger5
(Post 16605630)
while you have it out, might as well be proactive and replace all the seals (cam, oil pump, vtec solenoid, crank, cam thrust).
Sorry if I missed it, what solution did you go with for the clutch pedal support? For the clutch I'm thinking of just putting one long bolt from the top to the clutch but I don't think that would work the other way I could do this since I have a full cl parts car and both cars are pretty identical I can swap over the main support bar in the dash the one from the CL in the TL I don't know if that would work but I could try. |
I am starting to TL swap one big question do I have to take the entire harness not just engine harness but the other accessory harness out of the vehicle because right now I took the entire – harness both of them including the fuse box of the CL and I put in the TL plugged everything in it works but for some reason when there's no key in the ignition everything works like that's odd already.:confused:
It really do the engine swap yet because I need to do the water pump timing belt replacement the big problem of it is that pulley bolt is stuck hard like there is no way to remove it. I even bought the special 19 mm socket with the bigger mass and it doesn't work. What sucks is I'm going to have to remove the transmission the clutch to flywheel again. |
I haven't had any luck removing my pulley bolt so far either, but I also haven't had a chance to try hitting it with my new 1400ft/lb impact yet.
Some people have recommended bringing it to a shop and giving them a twenty or so to bust the nut off. |
I used my Dewalt impact and it took it off no problem last week.
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Originally Posted by thoiboi
(Post 16607209)
I used my Dewalt impact and it took it off no problem last week.
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Alright update the j32a1 is out of the TL I also had to remove my steering rack because it has to be replaced since I'm there I'm also going to do the steering rack swap since I'm there there are lines that I have to remove that will not be used again.
I'm kind of stuck on the transmission mounts for the manual Honda is selling them at a ridiculous price for me because I pay in Canadian dollars and the shipping is ridiculous so I want to know where I can get them because most of the other websites I go on they're listing the automatic ones that do not work. |
Originally Posted by MaxBeast4Z
(Post 16608708)
I'm kind of stuck on the transmission mounts for the manual Honda is selling them at a ridiculous price for me because I pay in Canadian dollars and the shipping is ridiculous so I want to know where I can get them because most of the other websites I go on they're listing the automatic ones that do not work.
https://www.acuraoemparts.com/v-2003...gine-mounts-mt If so, read the 10 year old thread below. It appears that Curry Acura 'might' give Canadians a deal on OEM parts, not sure.:dunno: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...canada-759260/ If you can't use the manual transmission mounts you have on your parts car, then you'll have to use OEM because no aftermarket vendors have Rubber, Front Transmission Mounting - Acura (50805-S3M-A03)Rubber, Rear Transmission Mounting - Acura (50806-S3M-A03)that I can find online.:shrug:Good Luck! |
Realize I am doing this on a budget and a time frame it's not looking pretty but I want this to run and drive next year I will make it prettier.
Update I was able to finally remove the transmission mounts for the manual transmission, The transmission aluminum bar mount one of the bolts broke in it I can still use it only on one mount but it's not good. I have took everything of wiring harness on the CL from front to the dash out of it and it's going to be moved in the TL but I'm going to have a little problem I know that the rear doors will not work I want to know the somebody have a wiring diagram for the swap on what should I use and what should I not use. The motor is done. I just have to prep the inside of the vehicle and also since I'm there my steering rack was leaking so I have to replace it, realize that the steering rack from the automatic to the manual is also different so the steering rack from the CL was still pretty good not leaking so I'm taking that and moving that over, it includes to remove one line that you don't need and you must replace the reservoir, as well I have no choice to buy one brand new, Because the fitting is not the same. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...686e09cec5.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...40f601207b.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...ebc50c7fed.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...a7b6c93336.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...ecfcd13706.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...cc73d9c8ba.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...225f9f1bce.jpg |
This is awesome! Taking the time to swap it to manual is the best thing you can do
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The vehicle is now running it's not drivable yet,:butthead: now I'm at the difficult part rewiring the car.:run:
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Nice work. the intake manifold cover looks like a non-type-s variant. is that the case?
Also, I'm presuming you have some wiring harness issues because you started with a 1999-2000 TL which has different components/connectors inside the cabin when compared to the 2003 CL-S 6 Speed? |
Originally Posted by whitetiger5
(Post 16612628)
Nice work. the intake manifold cover looks like a non-type-s variant. is that the case?
I can't really see the centrally located IMRC actuator on the pulley side of the IM. |
Originally Posted by zeta
(Post 16612857)
My guess is that he did not swap the Type-S IMRC module & components (as of yet?) and had to use the IM from the TL to get it running?:dunno: :)
I can't really see the centrally located IMRC actuator on the pulley side of the IM. I have the type S intake manifold with the imrc actuator I just can't put it because I screwed up:facepalm: |
Originally Posted by whitetiger5
(Post 16612628)
Nice work. the intake manifold cover looks like a non-type-s variant. is that the case?
Also, I'm presuming you have some wiring harness issues because you started with a 1999-2000 TL which has different components/connectors inside the cabin when compared to the 2003 CL-S 6 Speed? For the wiring harness what I'm going to do is I'm going to take the rest of the harness out of the CL and putting it in the TL I will lose their rear doors but what I'm going to end up doing is I'm going to wire the locks for those rear doors on the passenger lock I don't care if the windows don't work. |
Oh yeah I almost forgot here's how I did my clutch mount,
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...480332448a.jpg |
Mmmm, surface rust, delicious.
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Originally Posted by MaxBeast4Z
(Post 16612168)
The vehicle is now running it's not drivable yet,:butthead: now I'm at the difficult part rewiring the car.:run:
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Originally Posted by zeta
(Post 16632589)
MaxBeast4Z how is the progress on your swap?:)
Car runs and drives. Drives very uncomfortably though due to the fact that I didn't do a steering rack alignment but I still drive it even though I know I'm wearing out my tires even more the car is already soon going in storage and not being driven at all for winter. Since I'm driving a vehicle the are things to address: 1. I'm going to have to change the engine due to the fact that this engine almost has 300,000 kilometres on it and it's oil diluting it runs fine but it's oil deluding. 2. SRS system does not work due to the fact that I haven't installed the main harness yet or the unit and also the two crash sensors on the side of the doors. 3. ABS doesn't work due to the fact that the TL ABS module is different from the CL but also the lines on the TL are bigger from the master cylinder to the ABS motor so I have to make new lines and also changed the master cylinder. 4. Check Engine light two things that come up constantly a bad oxygen sensor that I know and system too lean bank 1. 5. The wiring harnesses I didn't waste my time I just took everything from the CL and just put it all in the TL obviously I lose the rear doors but I was able to wire up the rear locks to the passenger side door for now it's a start. |
Now for some people that think I'm done with this on the Swap and leaving it the way it is no it's far from being done. I will be making this car as a performance car I don't really care too much about luxury in it I want speed and stabilisation the wHP that I am aiming to get is 450 to 530 wHP.
Of course just saying this like that ain't going to happen this is going to be a very expensive process on my end the first thing on my list to get and it's the hardest part because they don't make them anymore is an entire aftermarket turbo, pipes and everything. I would be able to get one under $1,000 The aftermarket that there is of parts for the J series engines is big so I'm not worried on finding parts for that. I am debating on engines though, I want to keep my J32A2 type S or to go with a J35A3 from an MDX? I am looking into what's really different between the two engines I understand the heads but if I can put my type S heads on the J35 I'll do it. |
Originally Posted by MaxBeast4Z
(Post 16677103)
I am debating on engines though, I want to keep my J32A2 type S or to go with a J35A3 from an MDX?
I am looking into what's really different between the two engines I understand the heads but if I can put my type S heads on the J35 I'll do it.
Originally Posted by 03 tls nc
(Post 15753785)
Both blocks are the same. The only difference in the oil pumps is the pressure valve and spring, the J32A2 parts can be purchased for around $20. The coolant crossover manifold is different but can be made to work. The EGR valves are different and must correspond to the appropriate ECU. Of course the crank, rods and pistons are different. J35A3 has forged crank and rods but they are not comparable to after market forged rods but still better than cast (J32A2 has forged crank only). The heads are the same castings and use the same valve seats even thought the J32 uses a 1mm larger intake vale (with a valve job the smaller valve will flow more, due to less shrouding). Lost motion assemblies were updated for the 03 J32. The cams and springs are different (J32 springs are considerably stronger). The intake of the J35 utilizes are 1" spacer between the upper and lower runners and the upper intake is the same between the two with the exception of the longer trumpets used on the J35 (produces more torque below peak). The TBs are the same with the exception of the MAP sensors and the corresponding MAP sensor must be used with the correct TB (both use the same plug).
If forced induction is in your future use the J35A3. Clean up the casting marks in the intake tract but do not increase the size and enjoy the lower static compression and cams with less over lap. (upgrade the oil pressure spring and valve for good measure) For some NA fun on the cheap start with J35A3 use J32A2 cams and springs, port from the J35A3 IM to the valves, valve job and mill the head. (.010" is approximately equal to 0.25:1 static compression with J35 rotating assembly). I milled mine to 0.030" with no valve clearance issues and an estimated 10.75:1 static compression (no issues achieving correct mechanical timing with 0.030" milled). I also upgraded the oil pressure spring and valve in the bottom of the oil pump. Assuming that even if you don't separate the heads and run the long block as is replacing all exterior seals and gaskets only makes good since. Since you have to pull the pan to replace the the gaskets behind the oil pump and pickup, removing one allen plug and dropping the J32A2 oil pressure spring and valve in place is some really cheap insurance.:2cents: |
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Iggy did with the Type S heads and J35. I may be mixing up accomplishments between a few of the users here though.
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Update winter is over we are now spring, I'm just going to wait a month or two before even working on the car, I have to buy a couple parts, I have to address a couple mistakes that I did on my end when rebuilding the motor it requires me to take the motor out again but I don't mind I want a challenge.
There's one key component I have to replace as soon as I got the other one and that is the [Base, Front Injector] when I rebuild the motor I didn't really check for that because of that I ran the stock TL intake manifold so the same amount of air gets in the engine so when I replace the [Base, Front Injector] to the [TypeS, Front Injector] after that I'll be able to put the proper type s intake manifold with the imrc module and the shorter throttle head. I'll have to replace my oil pan because the engine sits lower than the stock one I scraped it it's not leaking but I'll replace it with a brand new one, I don't know if I'm going to put plate spacers so the engine mount on the firewall gets higher or I just put a skid plate. I am going to stay with the j32a2 for now there's no reason for me to upgrade yet, anyways I will have an AEM ECU so if I really want to I can go with a j35 anytime I want. I will be putting a turbo, I could try to find the rare supercharger kit but it's not worth it, I rather learn on how to properly put a turbo I already have the exhaust turbo manifold obviously modifications will have to be done the next step is the ECU and after that the rest will be easy for me to find and get. |
Tragically the project could not continue due to what has happened this year right now, as the vehicle stands it is still running it is still driving, but we are now approaching winter which means it is going back in storage, so the project will come back next year if there's even a next year.
The one top most important goal for the car is a turbo but I have to take everything else apart to evaluate if I can even run that. |
Update It's been awhile but I now have a baseline of parts, this is not all of them of course I'm missing tons more, this is just the start some of the stuff can fit directly some of this stuff needs to be modified.
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Just curious, does that rear header manifold, (red) in your picture below, have the 'bend' to clear the rear CL-S6 mount bracket, used on the manual transmission set-up? Reference the pictures below. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...cf27c08512.jpg The top set is made for the automatic transmission cars. The lower set is made for the CL-S six speed and has a slight pipe bend to clear the rear motor mount bracket. |
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