Guest

Good point. But if all the profits go to Honda (I assume it all goes there) maybe it would be a wash, or maybe even sell more, if the Integra became a high trim level under the Honda Civic badge. Whatcha think?

Edub-TL

I can't see why it is that important for the name?? Just consider the features and comfort of the car.

If you are happy with driving your car, that's all that matters.

Personally, I'm glad that the Acuras are affordable. Stealthy Luxury.

But if you do want to compare our TL to the ES300, I say that we come out on top.
Maybe what Acura needs is a beefier sport sedan like the GS400.

If Honda wants to market Acura with a more prestigious image, more power to them.

I think if they drop the integra name, it might be a better thing for them as well. Which makes me wonder why the S2000 with all the nice features would be sold under the Honda tag rather than the Acura?

N A wez, just my 1 1/2 cents...

MafiosoTL

sorry to say but you can't compare your TL to a full flanked luxery like the LS400. Two different types of cars and type of targeted customers. Ever ride in the RL? I know it doesn't sell well ( wait till the V8 comes out ) but its a solid ride and better built than the TL, ES300, IS300, etc... You can't compare Lexuses flagship LS with a mid-luxery sedan like the TL, its not fair nor does it prove anything

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'99 Acura 3.2TL Satin Silver

MafiosoTL

maybe... honda might not want to tamper with the image of the tegs though. people rather buy it as a acura than a honda



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'99 Acura 3.2TL Satin Silver

Guest

That's EXACTLY why people buy the Civic as an Acura... Because it has an ACURA badge! For a lot of people, it's an inexpensive entry into a premium make.

If Acura truly wants Lexus’ share, they’d have to drop the fries from the menu, and stick with the baked potato.

I, for one, would prefer to drive a CL as a courtesy car rather than a Teg.

LegendC

The introduction of the RSX will complete the "un-naming" of the Acura line. This might do some for the Acura image. The best thing that Acura could have done would be to take the S2000 and badge it as an Acura and drop the intergra. This would have given Acura quite the lineup of very respectable cars. I think the biggest hinderence to Acura's image is that many cars are built in the US now. They did this to aviod import quota's and taxes (financially smart) but this in turn killed the build quality of the cl/tl. As mentioned above the last high quality Acura is the RL.

Guest

99 TL has all those problems? I certainly hope this is one of those flukes and not a common occurance. My 97' Sentra is 60k and runs perfect. I plan on keeping my TL for 5-6years and am not comforted by the fact you say in 2 years you got new stereo, window seals, transmission, etc. PLEASE say its one of those duds. I'm supposed to be picking my 2001 up in a few weeks.

Gomez

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'01 White Diamond Pearl 3.2TL
-Wing, tint, burlwood shift, Whistler 6-band
'88 White RX-7 Convertible (SOLD)
-Permanent tinitus courtesy of Rockford-Fosgate

AC

According to many survey and independent mechanics (this survey was done some time in early 2000) Toyotas came out to be more reliable than Hondas. Do I agree with this survey? Yes and No. I think the Camry is a very well made car, better than the Accord. I think the TL gives you more car for the money but the ES300 is quieter and smoother IMO. I agree, too bad Acura doesn't have models to compete with the SC430 or the GS line. Sorry guys, our TL is not better than the GS300 IMO. The RL is still not better than the GS300 IMO again.

MafiosoTL

you know i think honda would've been smarter to market the s2000 as a acura. that would've been pretty phat actually. SL2.0? hows bout that name either that or make a suped up coupe or convertible based on the S2000.


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'99 Acura 3.2TL Satin Silver

Lexus_IS300

i don't know why honda/acura execute such weird sales marketing techniques. while honda is the economic line, its prelude costed more than the integra, etc. as for the s2000, i think it was smart of honda to keep it badged as a honda, if otherwise, the price IMO would of been marked up.



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'01 Lexus IS300
'91 Acura NSX
'95 Nissan Maxima

yu888

considering the service some of the acura dealers give, I am actually glad my S2000 is a HONDA. My honda dealer gives me the best customer service EVERY time. No questions asked if I have a warranty question or claim.
My TL has been almost perfect so far as warranty issues are concerned, but when I ask about stuff, the Acura dealers in the area are not all that great. Only had two good customer service managers work with me out of the dozen times I've visited for service questions and actual service work.
Given the choice of an Acura EL (canadian entry model) and a Honda Civic EX (built same), I'd pick the Acura brand along with the luxury image that comes with it. Its essentially the SAME car! Thats why they sell so many Integras. Brings our image down, but makes Acura mucho $$$!. And finally, no, Acura and Honda have different distribution chains etc, so different people make $ from Honda and Acura's.

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1999 Satin Silver TL Dunlop SP9000 215-45/17-mounted on CL-S 17" Rims
H&R Springs-Axiss MetalMasterPads-Crossdrilled Rotors
-Inspire Tailights-20/30/40 tint

Y2k S2K Honda Roadster
- Mingster Aeroscreen, Smokin Front mesh Grill, Clear Sidemarkers...

MafiosoTL

if thats the case i think we should trade the integra, the EL and a future car pick for the s2000

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'99 Acura 3.2TL Satin Silver

jkc2121

my mom has a 93 lexus ls400 with 140k miles on it. my acura has 65k miles and has about 10x as many rattles as her car. on top of that, her car has had no problems whatsoever (except for the time the person backed into her in the lot). My car has a new transmission, radio, window seals, and a few other little things. when i drive her car it just feels a lot more solid. i know her car was $50k new but it is also 6 years older than my car and it seems like it will last a lot longer than my car.

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'99TL mbp
-alpine dvd nav w/
--dreamcast
--vcr
-Comptech Exhaust
-AEM underdrive pulleys
-Weapon-R Intake
-Eibach Pro-Kit springs
-5% tint
v-afc, cai+bypass, camber kits on the way.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1494940&a=11281551

grishulia

This is the reason Lexus LS400 has the least depreciation of ANY car.

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Just my 2 cents...

jkc2121

my mom has a 93 lexus ls400 w/ 140k miles on it and it runs smoother and has less annoying rattles than my 99 tl w/ 65k miles on it. to get the prestigious image that lexus has acura is going to have to start making a solider product. this may mean a small premium in price but people are not going to look at acura's the same way that they look at lexus' until little things like the annoying rattles stop. on top of that my mother has never had a problem with her car (other than one blown fuse about 2 months ago) and i have had to have the transmission, radio, and window seals replaced.......and i still have those annoying rattles and my transmission still shifts funny.

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'99TL mbp
-alpine dvd nav w/
--dreamcast
--vcr
-Comptech Exhaust
-AEM underdrive pulleys
-Weapon-R Intake
-Eibach Pro-Kit springs
-5% tint
v-afc, cai+bypass, camber kits on the way.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1494940&a=11281551

Guest

Agreed, as long as it keeps Acura under the salary cap and a 1st round draft pick for next season.

chiawei

I have to be honest here. I really do not think Honda's quality is up there with Toyota.

I have owned 3 hondas before. 92 Accord Leafgreen LX (totalled after 11K, the airbag did not deploy, but otherwise perfect working condition). 94 accord EX (A/C replaced twice, sunroof track was replaced, ABS module quit, the car had less than 70K).
My mother in-laws TL has suffered from poor assembly quality (full of squeaks), and very poor gas mileage.

I have 3 Toyotas as well. 93 Camry (still my daily driver not with over 170K, the only thing that I repaird so far was $1.5K for steering shaft). I also have a 98 Sienna (41K, the left pax door has to be replaced, other than that the car is fine). My recently stolen but later recovered 01 IS300 so far has not a single problem.

From my experience, toyota/lexus are simply better in both their quality and services. Acura really needs help in the service area, their dealership is poor.

So far my wife's C is doing pretty well, the car feels much more solid. But price is still to high at $42k.

On the side note, i have been trying to dump my IS300 and find no taker at decent price. I guess solar yellow IS300 is like a death trap. Everyone that called about the car has stated that they hate the color.

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2000-Laguna Gree TL
2001-Solar Yellow IS300
2001-Titanium Silver 530i

Lexus_IS300

yellow is a color either you like, or you dont. by the way, do you post on IS300.net?

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'01 Lexus IS300
'91 Acura NSX
'95 Nissan Maxima

SL1200MK4

The Yellow is not that bad... The problem is that it looks tacky when it's dirty. As well as that the IS300 looks like a toy with the yellow. Not that many people are willing to pay so much for a used toy car...

However, I would concider the yellow as my choice of color. But I will be happier with the blue I guess. Silver is the easiest to sell I think... So is black

theanimala

It's tough to add too many new thoughts since there have already been so many good replies. But I do think that Lexus does have a higher end image. To some people that is important, to me it is not. I purchased my GS400 because I always loved the looks and power of the car. When I recently got it, my neighbors had the balls to give me $hit. One guy came up to me and said, "You had to get a Lexus? What are you trying to kill me?" I assume because I am younger then him. I am certain many of them think I bought it because of the name rather then some who loves the car.

Regarding the service, my dealer is impecible. If I am not satified with something (rarely) I always get a freebie as a way to make it up. I never even ask or expect anything, it's just what they do.

I also think that the cars just do have more "pizzazz". The RL cannot compete with the LS, the TL does not look as nice as the ES (to me), nothing like the GS, RS doesn't look as nice as the IS, etc.

I do think, and KNOW, that Acura gives you more value for your money, but I think at the expense of some substance and quality.

chiawei

I do post on the IS300.net. But very infrequently. I really do not like some of the stuff going on over there.

ceriman

One word guys...MARKETING!
Lexus came out with a goal to BE the Japanese Luxury leader. Acura came out as Japan's introduction to the Luxury segment. Acura has not targetted themselves properly nor has their ads reflected such. The TL and CL (and now the MDX) are what Acura is trying to sell, and they are doing so by targetting the mid luxury segment (aka the upgrade from Honda group) It is not appealing to the "older" crowd and thus has not been equated to a premium luxury car like the Benz and BMW's.

I see the"luxury segment" as truly an "older" car, and thus I personally like the Acura lineup...even the Integra (and new RSX) because of its image and performance. If Acura truly wants to pump up its Luxury image, they need to upgrade the RL and market the heck out of it. Even if they don't sell that many, they will sell more TL's, and even some TL's and MDX's b/c of this "luxury image"

(Honda is benefitting from all the press and advertising for their S2000 even though the ads won't sell any more S2000's. Instead, it is promoting a HONDA brand image. This is what Acura also needs to do.)

Just my 2 cents.

**************8
This say's it all right there! Some how the road to luxury got mixed up the intersection and headed towards performance.

MARKET THE RL!!!! A personal collection would include TL's big brother and a 540.

I wouldn't mind an RL...

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00 Acura, TL Black w/ Navi.
Chorme Oakland Raiders chrome license plate frame

MafiosoTL

up

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'99 Acura 3.2TL Satin Silver

Guest

You make a good point. It seems that Acura is aiming towards competing with German makers for the performance seekers. But they also want a share of Lexus' luxury buyers.

The automotive market is SO competitive though. They have to choose one or the other (perf or lux). Otherwise, they'll probably fail.

hunter001

Sorry ! The low-margin Integras have had lousy sales over the past 2 years...in fact, once upon a time, to keep the Acura outfit open, Integras provided the volume backup for the company. They were the bread-and-butter cars of Acura....they are not anymore and ought to be taken out of the Acura line-up and an S2000 based small sedan/Coupe with a small DOHC V6 (2.5 to 2.8L), ought to replace it, preferably with an adaptation of the VTM-4 present in the MDX, for a top of the line variant.

The sales figures of 2000 for Acura indicate that the 3.2TL has replaced the Integra as the "bread and butter" car, and is as follows:

Sales of Integra:------ 25,975
Sales of 3.2CL/CL-s :-- 24,677
Sales of 3.2TL :------- 67,033
Sales of 3.5RL :--------14,827
Sales of NSX :----------221
Sales of MDX :----------9,750 (partial year)

I think the Integra has to be taken out of the line-up and retired to the Honda end of the business....just my 2c




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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

JTang

You know, I keep thinking about BMW, Audi, Lexus, Mercedes....etc. Those are, for many of use, the cars that we all seem to compare Acura's agains.

Then, I think about what people think when you drive by. I personally do not like the instant image that people associate with a BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus. The image that is conjured up in peoples' minds seem to be "Rich", "Austentatious", "Successful", etc...we all have our own words that can instantly be described by a person's car make. Volvo conjures up "Safety".

Acura, on the other hand does not have such a strong image. When people think luxury, they don't think of Acura as readily. When they think of sporty, they don't think of Acura. Safty? Even if it is safe, Volvo's image wins in that department.

In the end, people don't have such strong preconcieved notions about the person driving by in an Acura TL. I like that. Judge me for who I am. The car says "Successful","Practical","Understated".

That's my belief. Sorry that was such a long statement. I like the Acura image and like that it does not make me feel like there is a strong image associated with the Brand.

vandy786

JTang....Great points.... I have never thought of this before but I totally agree.