NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

I think if you asked anyone on this board, that I am probably the most laid back moderator here.

mentl

Uh yeah. Facts. Yeah.

Look who's talking. We don't troll the Lexus boards, but you do? Not only is it immature, it's INSECURE.

TedC, I REALLY wish I didn't have to spell everything out for you, it's a waste of bandwidth. Go look at JD Powers stats for the TL and then come back. Jeez.

The TedC scientific method. You should write a book.

TedC, I give up. YOU said we don't like admitting that our cars are Hondas. No one here is under any illusions except you. We KNOW they're Hondas. Most people bought them BECAUSE they are Hondas. Some even mod them to SHOW OFF that they are Hondas.

I know you probably weep every time someone calls your GS430 a Toyota, but not everyone here is so vain.

No, this discussion is about a TL who beat an IS. YOU brought up the inane argument "well, if he had a stick he woulda beat ya!"

No TedC, I'm not going to allow you to martyr yourself. We have good discussions about all kinds of cars here; we respect other peoples opinions. We don't respect trolls.

Simply amazing.

You had an opportunity to prove us wrong, but you blew it didn't you?

The TL was the #2 selling lux sedan under $40k last year (behind the BMW 3-series). Maybe it's YOU who are fighting for identity; Acura seems to be doing just fine!

Guest

You're right guys, I gotta cut back on my crack intake !! I just ask that people think without bias, as hard as that may be. I mean, I have a GS430 and love it to death, although I'm the first to realize that not all cars are "normally aspirated" when a challenge presents itself, and will have my ass handed to me. I'm glad companies like Acura and Nissan keep raising the bar, it forces the others to follow suit, and everyone wins. But let's try to stop with the name-calling and putdowns, leave that to Bimmer.org. Let's just be happy that we have good taste for luxury vehicles, 'cuz at least we're not driving Pontiac Azteks !!!

Guest

...but what is it with this "mentl" ??!! Again, why am I a troll ? Because I don't have 3000 posts, because my schedule doesn't allow me to get here daily ?? What is it ? I have about 60 posts on Lexus, why don't they consider me a troll, why, because I own a Lexus ?? I just said I was in the market for a TLS. BTW, I went to JD Powers, there is a 1999 Service Usage and Retention Report, that's it. I simply went to Customer Satisfaction and Product Quality, which is what everyone looks at, and found 2 2001 documents for the US: 2001 Sales Satisfaction Study, & 2001 Customer Service Index (CSI) Study, in the first, Lexus was 3rd, Acura was 21st, in the second Lexus was 1st, and Acura was 5th. That's it. The fact that you imply "we" to exclude a non-Acura owner says it all, you're the one picking apart what I say at will, whenever it suits your point. The point I made about Acura not knowing what it wanted to be as a carmaker was argued before by your OWN forum, and I am lost at the idea that someone would want to buy a car from the luxury-division of Honda, to turn around and emulate the base company is beyond me, why bother with a luxury division, just make more upscale Hondas.

mentl

Trust me TedC, I am the closest thing to a friend that you have here.

If you REALLY don't know what a troll is: a troll is someone who hangs out in a newsgroup dropping bait with the intent to start an argument.

Oh for crying out loud TedC. When are you going to realize that Acura owners and Lexus owners are not at war? WE are the people who chat on this board all the time without picking fights. WE does not include YOU.

You astound me. Well, I don't like to repeat myself, so it'll just have to remain beyond you.

AKRY

One thing I like about Toyota is, they are very good at TQM, and their products are pretty consistant in terms of fit/finish. Sure IS300 looks riced out, and interior bits & pieces looks a bit out of the place, but the finish on the car, the panels fitments are excellent.

As for IS300 with 5-speed manual, it MIGHT be able to do 0-60 in mid to high 6's. But again, since it's manual, driver(s) has much more chances of making driving errors. And fromt statistic, more than 75% of manual tranny drivers OVER-RATED their ability of driving a manual car. Not every one is professional trained driver after all, right??

One easy example is... put 2 NORMAL drivers behind the wheel of an M5 and an E55 AMG... which one you think it's gonna edge out and win?? I have my $$ on E55 for sure...

P.S. Forget all those JD Power stuffs.... those dealer satisfaction questionair(sp?)/statistics are NEVER TRUE!!! A lot of the time, dealers are asking car owners to fill the questions with nothing but EXCELLENT just to show the higher managements.....

Andy Kuo

Shoofin

Why didn't ya creme him with NOS in the end?
Ed

mentl

Toyota and Honda both have EXCELLENT TQM. I am sold on Japanese quality (much to my Dad's changrin, a dyed-in-the-wool Chevy man hehe)

You're right about the survey's, but they do have some value, I think.

Guest

Bad news, Mental, I don't want to be your friend, so spare me the sarcasm. Like I said, do a search for my name, and you'll see how I am impartial to all cars, not just Lexus, heck I've only had it for a few months and it's my first. The fact that you cry "troll" when someone goes against the grain says alot about you, and you still don't back it up with logic. I'm not changing my ID or IP address every time I post, it's the same since I came here. Remember, this is a forum, a place for discussion and debate, not a fanclub. So come down off the cross.

shooter

Come on guys, one TL owner beat a IS300 & posts here in the TL forum. We all got a laugh & moved on. Simple like that. I am sure other forums have posts of killing a TL too. No biggie ...

TedC, it's expected to get what you got in a TL forum, right ?

Just look at the brighter side of some posts & got a chuckle out of it & call it a day ...

Polyman

I think some of you must be huffin' some serious gasoline or something. "I hate Lexus"??? WTF?!? Lexus vehicles are plush and well made. I'd take an LS or a GS over anything Acura makes anyday of the week. Although I am not a big fan of the ES or IS, they are well made cars. I have this feeling that Lexus will make the IS much more competitve in the coming years, which will make for some nice races because our TLs should be able to beat an IS right now.

mentl

I don't have to.. all I have to do is scroll up. Try it yourself and you'll see why people don't like you here.

Immaturity, insecurity, and now projection. You are a basket case.

Far be it for me to contribute to someone's insecurity, so I'll add this: I don't hate Lexus, I like them. I think they're great. I know you want me to hate them so bad, but it just isn't true.

I continue to put you down because you never fail to jump when I tell you to. And I will keep doing so until you have a stroke or leave. Or behave.

RUF87

Amen to that.

I've driven a stick for 10 years+ I've raced and done all kinds of stuff like shifting with out using the clutch. Even as good as I thought I was, and maybe was, I still messed up from time to time in the heat of the moment.

That's why I love it when someone's got a 5 speed that a hair faster than my auto. I'm willing to bet that I win more than 50% if the races with them. :p

RUF

Guest

Mental, I really, honestly don't care what you think, why should I ? Personally, I think you are a smartass, quoting everything I say, and trying to make it seem irrelevant. "Look, he actually said this, isn't that dumb ?", wow, you're brilliant, now scroll up and see what points you made to counteract my only 2 original points..see any ? Why ? Because there are none, clown.

No, you put people down to make yourself feel better, and I don't jump, I just can't stand idiots like you who think you are better and know more, neither of which is true. And I'll be the first to challenge someone as pompous as you are. If people on this board don't like me just because I don't agree with everything they say, like you must, then I can live with that, but your ignorant and exclusive attitude I can do without.

RAdams

Opposing viewpoints are part of what make forums like this so interesting.

Let's keep it civil, shall we?

mentl

Nonsense. I bet you've talked to me more today than your wife and kids. You must care more about me than them, right?

I don't like you because you are a troll, not because you don't agree with me. Can you live with that?

Jump doggie, jump. YIP YIP!

AC

You should have NOS'ed his a$$ just to embarrass him even more!

BlackShadow

TedC, what is your problem? I can't believe you have the nerve to write down that the people in the lexus forum don't bash Acura. Since you are on the lexus board, you should know better. I have been on the lexus board defending my beloved TL. If you want, I can go get the links for you. The guys on the lexus board knows me and they respect me because when I go over there I give them respect. If you want respect here then give us some respect too. We have no problem with you being here but show some respect. And let's not talk about the average age in the lexus board.
BTW, what the hell do you expect people here to say when you put down the TL? This is after all an ACURA board. Every board will have their die-hard fans so be ready for a lashback.
And talking about quality. Like I said before, every freaking cars have their share of problems. From the lowly Kia or whatever to the super-exotics and lexus is not excluded. I can also get links in the lexus board complaining about different problems on their cars too. So enjoy your car and we'll enjoy our car.

Acura3200

I vote we take away the quote button from Mentl... he's abusing it!

:p

mentl

:P Who loves ya baby?

Guest

This is what I said :
[QUOTE]1) The IS300 shares zero components w/ a Corolla
I didn't know his car has NOS, hence it will beat MOST any car

These were the replies :
Nowhere in any post did I say Acura sucks, make baseless claims to stir it up (like a TROLL would, Mentl) I did mention quality issues because I've seen a significant amount as opposed to Lexus' site, and the users, not I , posted these issues. Any other claims were from verifiable data i.e. JD Powers, car mags, etc. that everyone quotes from, not just I, so what is unfair or immature about that ?? Again, read the above replies and please explain to me that I have no respect and am immature.

BlackShadow

Of course you will get biased opinions here, just like every other automotive forums out there.
Don't get all worked up over words people post on the net. Remember, all these are people's opinions and I am sure you have yours. Don't get too personally involved and you will be fine.

Guest

Amen, Blackshadow, it's a breath of fresh air when someone like yourself gets involved in conversations, because I know you know your stuff, and you're open to opinion. It's also nice to see you and 1SICKLEX stir it up on the Lexus board every so often !!!
Thanks for hearing me out, stop over @ClubLexus when you can.

mgs333

no, i've seen many many automotive forums where members don't blindly bash the competition. i don't think i've ever read something positive about a non-TL car on this forum.

1SICKLEX

Did someone say my name? U have summoned me what are your 3 wishes?

Okay who's the knucklehead who said they hate Lexus and they are all Toyota's? SHow yourself!!!!! (Just kidding)

The @#$%^&* IS interior looks crappy to a lot of people cause IT LOOKS LIKE NOTHING ON THE ROAD!!!

TEDC u sound like BlackSHadow on the ClubLexus board!

I thought this was an old thread, IT'S BRAND NEW.

I still think the tl and IS are not competition, price may be close but they are too different to me......

A stock TL blew away a stock IS, I don't ever doubt a kill but that race should be a lot closer.......

city001

tedc:

first of all....BMW 330i and Lexus is300 with 35-45 less than Acura TL consumes more gas than the TL type S. You can't get the same mileage the acura gives if the BMW and Lexus has 260hp. So, Honda has better technology. It's gives u excellent performance and fuel economy. As for pricing, bmw 330 and lexus is300 r overpriced for their performance. remember the TL doesn't have stick....and TL are big sedans...with only the tiptronic, it can reach 0-60 in 6.2sec. That's really incredible. Imagine what if the TL is in 6 speed tranny?? It'll def kick GS400 and BMW 540's ass.

for top of line bmw 330...it'll cost around 40k
as for IS300 fully loaded will be high 30ks...
with that price...u can get the TL type S..and add all the mods...and it'll slap those 2 car silly.

btw, Honda has the best resale value.

G

city001

we do say positive things about other cars...

for example NISSAN...we luv their performance..

NISSAN has awesome performance, great pricing, and fuel economy is thumbs up.
I used to have th Nissan maxima 95

G

unx979

hoestly i don't see anything wrong with liking toyota's and lexus's. i love the supra, and i'm sure EVERYONE on this board would agree with me. that's one nice a$$ car. everyone has their own opinions and i think it's just really childish to be arguing about which company makes a better car. we are all dedicated to our cars, but that doesn't mean we should talk s**t about other cars. man now i wish i had a supra.......

typeSmaximum

I don't see anything wrong with TedC's posts?

AKRY

There are, but they are too few to get counted... and I can tell you right now, that IS300.Net is definitely NOT one of them... Heck some of them even thing they got a chance against WRX, stock-to-stock...(Blah... even with TLS, we don't stand a chance if the WRX is driven by someone who REALLY knows how to shift).

Both are nice cars, and they have their own strength/weakness... and IS300 interior DOES look crappy for a car costs $48K CDN.... I do agree that TL and IS300 have different target markets.... ES300 is more of a direct competitor for TL. IS300 is more of an A4/C-Class/3-Series competitor... nice try from Toyota, but still far from reaching German standards.....

Offering 5-speed manual is a good thing, driver-errors can't be overlooked either!! Having manual tranny doesn't necessary meaning you can go faster......

P.S. I am still pondering how this simple, killed story ended up like this?? but, I think we should all lighten up a bit. TedC has his opinions, as well as everyone on this board, and I think we all deserve some kind of respect for our own opinions.. and it should not be based on whether he/she owns an Acura or not....

Andy Kuo

jyang411

ANDY-

BRAVO! BRAVO! ENCORE!!! =D

fahoumh

didn't I say that I liked my friend's MR2?

Polyman

I think Ted has many valid points in his posts -- I don't see why some poeple are giving him sh1t. Probably because they have a tee-knee wee-knee.

aTL

Thats rediculious good job LOL.

1SICKLEX

cityoo1 are u sane mahn?

Lexus VVTi is way more advanced than Vtec, that's why starting with the new RSX Honda now has VTEC-I, it's way more advanced than just VTEC.

Honda has the best resale value, I really hope u mean Honda vs Toyota and not Acura vs Lexus cause you don't stand a chance. For example I could buy a 1998 RL for like 15 grand, horrible....

The day a 6-speed TL whoops my a$$ or a 540's a$$ I WILL be forced to buy the SRT supercharger ( I love how I will be hearing the o-60 in 6.2 sec the rest of my life), I just read a post here saying someone whooped a 540's a$$ please I hope the BMW boards do not find out......

Gas mileage, EVERYONE KNOWS if u use tiptronic, shiftronic, e-shift whatever, you are constantly racing your car or revving it etc WE ALL WILL AVERAGE 15 mpg, are u going by those suggested MPG ratings on the car when it is sold?

If I was a newborn baby and I read these posts it sounds like almost everyone bought the tl-s cause it is the fastest car in it's price range and @#$%^& the whole driving/ownership experience.

Doggone flame on even though I am not really flaming

AKRY have u driven the IS? Do u know the IS 200 is getting rave reviews in the UK and Europe, why CAUSE IT IS AN OUTSTANDING COMPETITOR TO THE GERMANS!!! The tl is not exported there cause Honda knows it will not sell. It's a great American car though.

RAdams

I'm not anti-Lexus (or much else) and I'm usually a fan of your posts, but you've misspoken a couple times in this post and I feel compelled to point a few things out:

VVTi merely uses a multi-phased cam sprocket. That's not "way more advanced" than the VTEC system, which uses additional cam lobes, additional rocker arms and lost motion assemblies. I don't mean to start a pissing match here, but VVTLi adds VTEC-like operation to VVTi so it could be said that VTEC is why Toyota debuted VVTLi. In either case, both manufacturers now offer variable valve timing, lift and duration. Gotta love technology!

Again, not going to get into a pissing match here. The RL is the red herring of the Acura lineup so I can't fault you for choosing it to make your point. If I wanted to do the same, I could bring up the ES250. Not even the Japanese can win them all.

1SICKLEX

Doggone it RAddams if u tried to shut me up it worked!

That's for the feedback.....

seotaiji

ok. here is list for lexus sick people
and they are very sick.. at IS(ick)300times
just like 1sicklex, TedC, whoever you are? ok IS wins for sick war!!
MenTally sick guys, good luck with TL forum. I hope you guys can win the war.. GOOD LUCK.. with the best hope.. Still TL is faster than ISick.. Maybe Lexus guys can't drive their lexus very well.. Just 1sicklexus..

Severin

Top-of-the-line 330 is more like $48K all optioned out; I know, I bought one for the wife...

AKRY

1SICKLEX,

Yes, I have driven IS300, and yes it a good effort from Toyota... have you drive it side-by-side with 330i?? Audi A4?? C320 Sport?? Sure they are more expensive, but you get what you pay for, and that's exactly what IS300 lacks... refinement!! It's great car, great price... great competitor overall, but I rather have full leather(which IS300 has in 2002), and REAL woods...... 10 years down the road, which one you think would last?? 330i or IS300??

And I can tell you the true that, IS300(TLS as well)has much more body-flex compare to German cars (very noticeable when going up driveways at an angle), heck, my friend's '96 C-Class has less body-flex then my TLS.....

German cars are still tougher, structure-wise.... and their safety features are hard to beat(C-Class has 8 air-bags, as well as C-Coupe, S-Class. 95% of German cars sold in NA have at least 6 air-bags per car)... German engineering excellences are still on top, IMO....

P.S. In Canada, IS300 manual, fully loaded w/out graphite rims and GPS is selling for $31,333 US while fully loaded(none-NAV) TLS is at least $2K-$2.5K cheaper......

Andy Kuo