LuxSport

Road and Track did a comparo of 11 great sedans. Here is the outcome:

1. Infiniti G35
2. BMW 330i
3. Lexus IS300
4. Saab 9-5 Aero
5. Audi A4 3.0 Quattro
6. Acura 3.2TL Type S
7. Mercedes Benz C320 Sport
8. Cadillac CTS
9. Volvo S60 T5
10. Jaguar X-Type 3.0
11. Lincoln LS

Here is some data:
==driving excitement (20)
1. BMW 330-20
2. Infiniti G35-19.8
==engine (20)
1. BMW 330-20
1. Infiniti G35-20
2. Saab 9-5-19.4
==gearbox (20)
1. Lexus IS300 (20)
2. BMW 330i (19.6)
==steering (20)
1. BMW 330i (20)
2. Infiniti G35 (19.6)
==brakes (20)
1. Lexus IS300 (20)
1. Mercedes C320 (20)
2. BMW 330 (19.3)
==ride (20)
1. Mercedes C320 (20)
2. BMW 330 (18.9)
==handling (20)
1. BMW 330 (20)
2. Infiniti G35 (19.8)
==exterior (15)
1. Audi A4 (15)
2. BMW 330i (13.7)
==interior (15)
1. BMW 330i (15)
2. Saab 9-5 (13.4)
==seats (10)
1. BMW 330i (10)
2. Audi A4 (9.7)
==controls (10)
1. Acura TL (10)
1. BMW 330i (10)
2. Saab 9-5 (9.9)
==luggage space (10)
1. Saab 9-5 (10)
2. Volvo S60 (9.2)

TOTAL OF THE ABOVE (200)

1. BMW 330i (191.4)
2. Infinti G35 (186.6)
3. Mercedes C320 (182.7)

Price (200)
1. Infiniti G35 (200)
2. Acura TL (195.1)
TOTAL OVERALL (including the performance ratings I did not list) (600):

1. Infiniti G35 (580.3)
2. BMW 330i (569.5)
3. Lexus IS300 (562.7)

If price wasn't involved the 330i might have edged out the G35, but price was a big helping factor for the TL-S.

1SICKLEX

Well it is a new car compared to all those older cars. But I would not be caught dead driving that appliance, looks like a spaceship.

A shame, I think Infiniti really has a winner but it's looks and the Infiniti brand may doom it to obscureity.

SpoonPower78

When will this BMW winning streak end?......

1SICKLEX

Uhhhh, they lost, right? That may be a first in C&D in a fair fight.

garylee55

You said you were looking to buy one in the G35 forum...but the dealer wouldn't give you the time of day (like the Lexus people treated me when I went to drive an IS300).

SpoonPower78

Oops, yeah it did lose, but like he said, if price wasn't the factor, it would have won (again).

SergeyM

Could you post TL-S numbers. Thanks.

Type SSSS

the 330 and is300 do not belong in that comparison. no matter where they fall in the ratings. those cars have 4 doors and two useless back seats. nice cars, yes - s e d a n s they are not.

lenman

torqueaholic

moderators please move this crap to a more appropriate section of the forums! thanks!

P/S: I don't subscribe to rag's like :yack: road and track!

torqueaholic

moderators please move this crap to a more appropriate section of the forums! thanks!

P/S: I don't subscribe to rag's like :yack: road and track!

Lucky Devin

Yeah man, the BMW 330i is *not* a sports sedan, ohhhhhhh kay.

1SICKLEX

I was not looking to buy, I said my 2 pals were (we stopped by numerous dealers in the day). I am interested in the G35 coupe though, but if the interior stays the same forget about it.

vandy786

Lol, I was getting worried. Nobody in their right mind would buy a G35 sedan (b/c of its looks alone, in and out). That explains why I've seen about as many G35s as 3.5 Altimas (cost).

1SICKLEX

My 2 buds know a lil about cars but not much. They basically said it looked like an electirc car from the outside. Next we went inside the car, they were looking over the interior and felt it should be much better. We could scratch the center console with our fingernail. Sitting in the back was cramped too. 1 owns a Geo Prizm and the other a Caddy Catera. We saw 30k for a leather and sunroof model to 38k (nuts) for a loaded model. They did say they would chose a TL-S first over the G35.

No one helping at the dealer did not help. The Q45 was a huge let down too.

The new 745 il was AMAZING, incredible interior, not a huge fan of the looks but it is growing on me. PLEEEEEEEAASSEE check the 7 series last, we went to the Caddy dealer after were bored there cause we kept talking about the 7!

david27

Does anybody have the tls perfomance data 0-60 and 1/4 in this comparo? Where was it in handling and braking?

gohawks63

I agree with you. It's probably a hoot to drive, but fugly!

No thanks.

garylee55

Well, call me crazy...'cause I did...I think the G is BEAUTIFUl...space ship or not (can't recall the last time I saw a space ship, but I don't think they are configured like human automobiles).

Whether you think it's 'fugly' or 'fu-beautiful', the car is a contender. It certainly is 'fu-n' to drive! I don't miss my TL-S, but I loved it too, when it worked!

ferizzo

Don't give up the GS4!!!

I assume that the cars were all Auto right? All great cars. Is the SAAB aero that good a car? Don't know anything about it but then again have no real interest in them.

adrianchew

I love the looks of the G35 sedan - unlike the fugly rear end of the 745i. Not sure about the interior quality/details though.

SCWells72

At the G35 forum someone said all of the cars that were available as manuals had manual trannies. The autos were cars that were ONLY available with auto. Don't quote me...just reporting what I've read in other discussions about this topic.

And w.r.t. the Saab 9-5, it's actually a really cool car. It's wedged in between the TL-S, IS300, G35 from a price perspective and the GS, 5-series, etc., from a features perspective. That turbocharged four-banger really goes fast...as long as your going straight and don't mind GOBS of torque steer...

gohawks63

That's why there are so many different cars out there, different tastes. The back end is not for me, the rest of the car is OK, but it just doesn't move me. I actually like the look of the Altima better.

As for it being a contender, I have no doubts. Just like the TL was when it was redesigned in '99, and then with the introduction of the TL-S. Acura raised the bar for both performance and value. Nissan/Infiniti have now done the same.

Bottom line..... It's a good thing for the customers.

thephantom

Bottom line = TL is the lowest priced ( good value) car in the category... that's it?

gohawks63

What defines a good value? You can argue the extreme and say that a stripper Civic provides good value because it's relatively cheap and it'll run forever, but where is the performance? Does a Camry LE provide value since you get some luxury amenities, but again, no performance?

The TL/TL-S offer a reliable, good looking car that has decent performance (acceleration, handling, etc.), lot's of features, and good reliability for a decent price. Is that a bad thing? Absoutely not.

The Altima and G35 are now upping the ante in that you're getting an improvement in performance for a relative bargain.

You want a car that is near the tops in performance? Go buy a Ferrari, NSX, Viper, or Vette, but then you're paying significantly more and you're losing out on passenger space. You want a car that can haul four people and still kick butt at the track? Go buy an 540 or an M5, but then you're paying quite a bit more again.

It all comes down to finding your target market and appealing to that group.

The TL/TL-S along with cars like the IS300, Maxima/I35, Altima, G35, etc. offer varying degrees of performance and luxury that lands you around the $30K mark +/- $5K.

In the cars mentioned in the previous paragraph you can argue that some use higher quality interiors or are more luxurious. Others may have more toys, others have more room, and others are better performers.

It all comes down to what is most important to you and what you're willing to spend for it.

1SICKLEX

Well when I saw a G35 for 37/38k I was like no way in hell. First thought was a loaded TL-S for 30-31k. A G35 for 30k, great price.

I would not give it up for a GS 430.

Honestly, if an AUTOMATIC G35, beats a MANUAL BMW, that is AMAZING to me , especially at Car& Beemer (driver). Says alot about the G35 in a very positive way.

People are really trying to hype this G35 on the car forums, but selling 3k a month is not exactly what I would call bolting our the gates. 6k ES 300s are being sold a month at 35k and up, weird styling and all.

ScreamingVQ

And how many is lexus selling those IS? I think its under 2K right? 3K a month is GREAT if you consider that the car has only been out for about 3 months and that word of mouth and advertisments are still spreading.

The ES300 name has been out since the fall of 1991, that might be a reason why its selling more steadily. It has more brand/model identity.

ferizzo

Right on goaub!

Here are my choices (based on looks and what I've read as far as performance):

RS6
M5
E55 (haven't seen the new body style)

Obviously I haven't driven any of the above but sure would love to try them!

Back to the original choices, I like a little something about each of those cars but am still loving the total package of my TLS! Just as the G35 is helping raise the bar I can't wait to see what Acura and Lexus come out with next!

1SICKLEX

Maybe Infinti owners don't understand. They better start selling cars REAL SOON or bye bye Infiniti.

y2ks2k

Dont agree with this at all, the Saab and Lexus should not be in front of the TL.. way to weak.

ScreamingVQ

Acceleration is only part of the equation to being a sports sedan.

The Saab Viggen, I can't believe you could even say that its weak Oh well, to each his own

ScreamingVQ

Isn't that what you want though?

garylee55

Nissan Corp is ahead of its revival plan goals. Go here to see recent announcements:

http://www.infinitinews.com/

I still say they are a contender.

Lucky Devin

I wouldn't put Infiniti down for the count just yet. We'll see what happens with the G35 coupe, hopefully (for them at least, I couldn't give a fuuk less if they do well or not) they will do better with the styling than on the G35 sedan. The rear is just ungainly.

Perhaps this will persuade Nissan to badge the next GT-R as an Infiniti after all

thephantom

If you look at the comparo you will notice all manufactures except Acura has made the list more than once. Acura scored number 2 on the price "test" and made no other lists. I like my car, don't get me wrong, I was only quoting the comparo.

ferizzo

Steve, you traitor!

1SICKLEX

I'll say it again, I am positive I would be driving an Infiniti if the cars looked better and had some sort of "brand".

The FLAGSHIP brand spanking new Q45 is selling 400 copies a month MAYBE, if that is not disapointing, I dunno what is.

I think the market is getting VERY saturated, and people will buy what they are familiar with. Infiniti may forever be for the Nissan buyer looking to move up, not many cross-shoppers from other luxury marques.

It is wonderful though at all the new cars out! That 11 comparo list is AMAZING, a bunch of great cars and huge improvements over earlier models.

torqueaholic

here are a few figures.....

0 to 60:

G35= 6.2sec
BMW330I= 6.1sec
TLS= 6.5sec

1/4mile

G35= 14.7sec
BMW330I= 14.7sec
TLS= 14.9sec

Well there you have it! If Road and track is to be believed, the "Big boys" pulled on us early, but we make a quite a bit of ground by the 1/4mile, even though we still technically loose by 2 car lengths!

ScreamingVQ

Huh?

What were the top speeds of all the cars, and tell if they're limited or not.

.3 second difference at 60mph isn't a big difference. Its almost like being at the person's rear door. Losing by 2 car lengths at the end of the 1/4 is a pretty big gap. I have my doubts about the TL-S catching up with the G35 after 100mphs though. Heres why...

G35
.27cd
1:1 4th gear

TLS
.32cd
.95:1 4th gear O/D

Gaining back 2 car length at those speeds takes alot of acceleration. Running the TL-S into 4th gear O/D will take it out of VTEC for while and will take most of the acceleration away until it hits VTEC again.

Monte TLS,MAX

So funny that the manual 330I is basically equivalent to the auto G35 and TLS in straight line, if only they were in manual form!

ScreamingVQ

Yeah but its short 35HP and can still run with them.

AC

I tortured a blue TLS with kit..."that's all I have to say about that"