I took the RL out today in the snow and had a few slips. Is this normal of the Rl and the AWD system, i kept getting the VSA light coming on. I am using the regular OEM tires.

 

When does it slip? Acceleration, cornering, braking?

I don't know if the OEM tires are really any good, and AWD will really only help you accelerate quicker.

 

That is a most uneducated statement.

With the dialog ln this forum continually deteriorating I am realizing how much of it has come from commentary of those who do not own or have driven an RL for any period beyond an initial impression.

 

WINTER TIRES

 

^yeah

i need a set asap , my M3 is trash with my stock PS2s , it slides all over the place in less than 1/2 inch of snow

 

OEM tires are trash when it comes to dry grip and suicidal when it comes to snow grip.

Your main issue is your tires. If there is no grip, AWD won't help you very much. Well...maybe to get moving to be fair, but that's it.

 

a TANK with my snow tire since i live in the north east. You must buy snow tires then your RL will be unstoppable!! safe driving.

 

What snow tires did you put on your car?

 

Chris,

Thanks for your input. Are you using the original 17" OEM rims with these tires. I don't generally like switching over tires because i dont have a Garage for constant storage like most. Any good all season option you could recommend apart from the Pilot Sport A/S. I will need All season tires by Spring 2011 and think it might be better saving for that time.

Happy Holidays.

 

I was just plowing through snow on Continental DWS, I'd say 4-6" deep.

 

through my un-plowed driveway in ct. the RL was UNSTOPPABLE. i have snows on the OEM rims and all season on a nice rim. so i roll on the snows in oct and off in the spring. Go to tire rack .com to find a cheap snow tire and rim package. this will save you alot of money. hope this help. i do not use all season in the snow of CT.

 

Please correct me then, if you feel that way. Where am I mistaken? None of what I said had anything to do with the driving impression of the car. First sentence was a question. Second sentence was what I heard, and I said that. Third sentence is simple physics.

 

AWD only makes helps you accelerate quicker?

Read up on the dynamics of SHAWD. No where,,,,, no where does Honda promote the purpose is to accelerate quicker.

SHAWD is dynamic torque vectoring to apply grip where needed and utilized best. Further in corners it enables speed to be maintained beyond what most FWD and RWD systems can tolerate. Additionally the RLs SHAWD system contains a planetary gear unique in the RL configuration that further over in outer real wheel in turns to create a yaw effect simulating a slight over steer maintaining better control in the turns. AWD cannot do that.

SHAWD is about traction and driving dynamics in turns. NOT about quicker acceleration. In fact, SHAWD penalizes the RLs acceleration with additional weight. No where, no where is the RLs SHAWD system projected to make it a faster accelerating car.

You could not be further from reality and by making such an incorrect statement to perpetuate the stigma of misunderstood this vehicle suffers. This vehicle is more intelligent than the majority of off handed critiques I read out here.

Read, read, read....then post.

 

Mr Tampa, acceleration is improved with grip. 4 wheels grip road better than 2 when accelerating. That is what he was referring to, that is the common benefit of any all wheel drive system.

Now as far as SH-AWD system goes, it does have the ability to over drive rear wheels, WHEN ACCELERATING.

If you're taking a turn or a bend and your foot is not on the accelerator, no overdrive occurs, in fact nothing occurs. You have to gun the car into a bend for SH-AWD to start moving power to outer wheels.

If you're slowing down or maintaining speed, SH-AWD does absolutely nothing in that situation.

I'm speaking from experience so I hope this isn't one of those uneducated guesses as far as you're concerned.

 

Read. This is a quote: "...and AWD will really only help you accelerate quicker."


You are extrapolating from a finite and specific statement.

A statement that is untrue in it's specificity.

Of course more grip improves acceleration. But that is not the purpose of the RL's SHAWD application. Grip in turns is the focus, not just acceleration. SHAWD is about handling and acceleration is only ONE attribute of handling. And the poster stated that acceleration 'will really ONLY' be the benefit. Untrue.

And yes, SHAWD does work in coasting with no throttle added.

Regardless of your personal experience with your super most special RL in the world....read what is written and not what you want to hear.

 

Mr Tampa, sir

I've driven the new and improved (compared to yours) RL with the power meter for SH-AWD in front of me for the last 2 years.

SH-AWD shows no power in turns or anywhere else shifting when coasting or slowing down.

Maybe your special RL does the trick but try lifting the foot off the accelerator and you'll see you're wrong.

 

Honda must be wrong and you and your super most special RL and most unique better than anyone else driving experience must be right.

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/4040401.html

Torque Distribution Regulation
· Acceleration during cornering
Torque to the rear wheels is continuously varied to supply up to 100% to the outside wheel and 0% to the inside wheel. This creates an inward yaw moment, significantly improving vehicle handling.
*Yaw moment is turning torque relative to the vertical axis running through the vehicle’s center of gravity.


· Deceleration during cornering (throttle closed)Torque to the outside rear wheel is freely varied to change from an inward to an outward yaw moment, ensuring vehicle stability at all times.


· Straight-line driving
Front-rear torque distribution is regulated for optimum performance in accordance with the amount of torque produced. During rapid acceleration the load on the front wheels is reduced; conversely, rear-wheel load is reduced during cruising. The result is stable driving at all times.

 

well, Honda is wrong, you tell me where.

Either their press (above) or their power meter.

 

I was talking physics. AWD helps you accelerate. Nobody's disputing this.

AWD does NOT help you brake. All four wheels have brakes on them, all four wheels help slow the car down. Drivetrain setup is irrelevant. Nobody's disputing this either.

AWD does NOT help you go around corners faster. Cornering ability is defined primarily by the tires. AWD, especially SH-AWD, becomes relevant and shows its superiority when accelerating out of a corner. This is a huge generalization, but if you abuse the throttle coming out of a corner in a FWD car, you will understeer. If you do the same in a RWD car, you will oversteer. Most typical 50-50 AWD systems stay more neutral than both FWD and RWD cars. They'll have very mild understeer if anything.

SH-AWD's party piece is the fact that it sends the exact amount of power needed to each wheel to keep the car neutral when accelerating out of a corner. It does not "increase" the amount of grip. It just uses all the grip that is available.

 

· Deceleration during cornering (throttle closed)Torque to the outside rear wheel is freely varied to change from an inward to an outward yaw moment, ensuring vehicle stability at all times.

Not up on me techno-tongue, but this sounds like a fancy way of saying that it doesn't actually do anything with a closed throttle.

If you can try to explain this in layman's terms, please do. It sounds to me like "freely varied" is another way of saying that SH-AWD doesn't control wheel speed. In order to accelerate the wheels, it needs torque, which it doesn't have if the throttle is closed. To slow wheel speed, you need the brakes, which is in an entirely different system.

Sounds like PR talk to me.

 

Physics...now that is a big word.

What you say now is NOT what you said earlier.

Who said anything about SHAWD helping you brake? Was it the voices?

Actually working in concert with SHAWD is the RLs integrated VSA, which does the braking part of the stability control. Handling as in SHAWD is more dimensional on the Acceleration attribute some one dimensional people cannot see past. Maybe if it was termed SAAD (Super Acceleration AllWheel Drive) you could better comprehend. Maybe that is offered on the RL you claim is built in the USA (and the reason for low sales).

But a nice job with the backpedaling. Inserting the term acceleration wherever possible will sooner or later appear to remedy the hole you dug.

Instead of links to sources (versus opinion) I should have simply supplied a shovel.

 

What's different between what I said now and what I said before?

And remember I said "Nobody's disputing this either". Nothing wrong with stating facts.

VSA only comes into action once the car starts to lose traction. If you have grip, VSA doesn't show its face. That's why you don't get the VSA light flashing under normal driving, but probably do if you lose traction. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but all stability control does is apply proper braking force to each individual wheel to get the car to regain traction again. Kind of like SH-AWD, but using the brakes instead of the engine. I'm sure it doesn't actually communicate with SH-AWD in any way.

Definition of acceleration:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/acceleration
ac·cel·er·a·tion   
[ak-sel-uh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the act of accelerating; increase of speed or velocity.
2.
a change in velocity.
3.
Mechanics . the time rate of change of velocity with respect to magnitude or direction; the derivative of velocity with respect to time.

Have I abused this definition anywhere?

And can you explain how SH-AWD works with a closed throttle in layman's terms or not? I'm pretty sure I know what it means, but you seem to disagree, so what do you think it means?

I'm not doing any backpedaling. I didn't dig a hole. I stand by what I said. I'd appreciate it if you'd quit it with the personal jabs and get back to having a discussion, please.

 

Did you read the link? It even has pretty pictures.

VSA is integrated into SHAWD. They communicate. The VSA wheel sensors contribute to the SHAWD system performance and operational flow. Look at the pretty pictures.

And I never disputed the definition of acceleration. I disputed your summarily dismissing the attributes of AWD *SHAWD* as ONLY beneficial in acceleration. THAT IS FALSE. It has multiple dimensions of performance. HANDLING does NOT equal acceleration solely.

But some people cannot comprehend any complexity beyond acceleration. "MY car best...it accelerate best. Me best". Thankfully the RL's complexities are more dimensional than acceleration and mankind has mostly moved out of caves.

I have posted HONDA links. Read them. Or maybe someone else can read them to you.

I have to go help other people understand SHAWD. Maybe I will try the Hyundai web forums.

 

Lose the pompous attitude, you're coming off as an ass. Grow up. Can we have a mature discussion about this?

Yes, I read the link genius. Did you read my posts? Because you're not answering any of my questions.

Okay, both SH-AWD and VSA use the wheel speed sensors, so in a way you can say they communicate.

You think I'm talking about straight-line acceleration only. I already said it helps when you're applying throttle through a turn, this is how the RL (and any other Acura with SH-AWD) gets its praise for being a well-handling car.

I think where we're having trouble understanding each other is where acceleration comes into handling.

Generally going through a corner:
1. Brake
2. Turn (without throttle)
3. Accelerate

In order for SH-AWD to function, it needs torque/power. You get this by giving the car throttle. SH-AWD does nothing if you're braking or only turning the steering wheel, or doing anything that doesn't involve the gas pedal.

Make sense now?

 

call me crazy but I thought that discussion was finished with my previous post:

"well, Honda is wrong, you tell me where.

Either their press (above) or their power meter."

 

I can only hold the mirror. I cannot control the reflection you see.

I answered several of your questions and posted sources. (although you say 'ANY'). Ah those silly words again....I bet ANY really means some.

And since I posted and highlighted for you, and it did not answer ANY of your questions, here is is again,,,,,

· Deceleration during cornering (throttle closed)Torque to the outside rear wheel is freely varied to change from an inward to an outward yaw moment, ensuring vehicle stability at all times.
And yes.....SHAWD does indeed react from steering...

The SH-AWD system is composed of sensors to detect steering angle, lateral g, and other vehicle information; an ECU; and the rear differential.


These posts speak clearly for themselves.

 

Tampa, do me a favor, get in the car tomorrow and watch the SH-AWD readings. If you detect any power shifts on hard turns without throttle input, you let me know.

until then, there's really nothing to discuss regardless of what Honda says. My experience says otherwise.

 

I do not need to. I have witnessed the SHAWD display adjust when in a sweeping turn and my foot off the accelerator. It does not alway grow, sometimes the bars retreat. That is the dynamic.

Second, the MID display is not a precise instrument, it mearly depicts the activity for showmanship. You cannot expect that display to communicate with extensive detail what a system with the complexity as SHAWD is doing precisely.

Read the engineering notes. If you don't believe them, call Honda and tell them you know better. Then let us know what they say.

I'm going to have an interactive conversation now....with a box of rocks.

 

Well I must have missed your answers, because I can't see them anywhere. So I'll post them again.

1. Try to explain to me what that quote about SH-AWD and a closed throttle is in layman's terms. It sounds to me as if it "freely varies" means that the proper amount of torque distribution isn't being calculated, and the wheels are just spinning along, because the car is coasting.

2. What's the difference between what I said before and now? I haven't contradicted myself, only expanded.

Answer those, especially number one so I know you know what you're talking about.

Here's a third one for you:

Do you agree with that bolded statement in my last post? You conveniently ignored it.

Read my bolded post again. ONLY steering. As in NO THROTTLE. Sure SH-AWD will sense steering angle all the time. It won't do jack unless you have THROTTLE. Or if it does, please explain to me what it does.

 

Um...right.

Keep it civil peeps.

 

so yeah, before the pompous, arrogant sunny south interjected about SNOW driving. You will have traction issues with a stock set of tires. They're an all season, made for comfortable ride and noise levels in a luxury car. My fiancee has a subaru, and it slips all over the place with regular tires. Is it better than a front or rear drive car? Yes absolutely. Can I bomb around like I can in my plow truck with a set of snow tires? No, but if you drive with caution, which you really should anyway, you will be just fine if you dont have anywhere to store a second set of tires

 

Why Thank You.

But could you please point out where I mentioned snow driving in any of my posts in this thread (except for this one)? I only disputed the "AWD will really only help you accelerate quicker" statement by citing the attributes of SHAWD.

Read.

 

What do you think he was talking about in a snow related thread? He sure wasnt talking about a drag race at the strip? Why would you come in here not talking about the discussion at hand and arguing points that had NOTHING to do with the thread. Especially one where based on where you live you have no basis to inject your opinion on.

 

Again. I was commenting and citing information relative to a statement about AWD. I did not comment on snow driving. AWD and SHAWD are topical to driving, snow or not. I was commenting on that. Does living in the snow belt or not preempt clarifying the attributes of SHAWD?

I stated and cited facts. Indeed they contradicted the comments of some posters, but I posted my sources, Honda in fact. Maybe that ruffled some feathers to bully me out of the thread by not reading the facts, so be it.

But not liking my delivery does not deny the simple facts....and I can trace it through:

A statement was made about AWD that was not factual and I stated so.
A statement was made about SHAWD that was not factual, and I stated and cited so.
An accusation was made to me that I was not answering ANY questions raised. I disagreed and depicted so.
An accusation was made that I interjected about SNOW driving. That was incorrect, I interjected on the attributes of AWD / SHAWD with no reference made to SNOW driving.
I am now being admonished for commenting in a thread where I have no geographical reference, yet my comments were relative to the attributes of SHAWD and not specifically to SNOW driving,


If threads are requiring geographical or first hand experience for commentary, most of the posts on this board are irrelevant. And if threads are subject to censorship based on that theory, I retract. But I see a thread in the main forum concerning pregnancy, and I wonder if every poster in that thread has appropriate experience to comment?

Last, is arguing and debating (no matter how heated), limited to only affirmations and approvals?

 

I live in Chicago, when I had my oem Michelin tires I always had an issue with a curve in the street near my house. When snow was present, no matter how slowly I would go around the curve my car would side sideways toward a fence and fire plug realy made me wonder about the drive system on my RL.
Then I replaced my oem tires with Toyo Versado tires and learned what the Rl was all about.

 

I think tamparl accidentally put his tampon in his ass instead of his vagina this morning.

 

You just dont get it. Would you start talking about taking a shit while your wife is asking you what you want for dinner? No. Why should we have to highlight the fact we are talking about winter conditions and grip (in the same context) to everyone. It should be common sense.
And about the shawd, with shitty tires in the snow, i dont care how advanced the system is the system will still do nothing for you but slide.

 

at the thread....

sorry I had to do this LOL....OP get some winter tires....and I have heard awesome things about Continental DWS

 

SO.... has it been determined which one of you has the biggest dick?

Back to the question at hand.

OP, yes it's normal for cars to slip/slide in situations where traction is limited. Be it from snow, ice, water or dirt. Or anything else that limits the tires ability to grip the road/surface.


All season tires are a comprimise between cold weather performance and warm weather performance. Usually to the point where it does neither well.

Pick up a set of dedicated snow tires on an extra set of wheels and you'll be suprised the difference they make. You will still be limited by the amount of snow on the ground but as long as you don't pack snow under the car you should be able to go where you need to go.

 

Not yet, if we hook up with you via webcam can you judge for us?