sotiri

Well, I bought my 06 with tech in 11/05, and I was pretty leery of getting the runflats, all the usual questions, what if, how do you repair, what if you dont have it... you know all the stuff a car guy will ask because he knows some where he is gonna get screwed.
Well, yesterday at Irving Park off LSD going to Belmont harbor (in Chicago) I turned in to get to the parking lot to go to a boat of a friend of mine.
As I made the right hand turn into the driveway leading to the parking lot, I heard a puff... and immediately I see the TPMS warning, then I have the RUN FLAT warning indicating 0 pressure and as I am driving I hear the hissing, in 3 seconds, all the air was gone.
Poof, yep, and clunk clunk clunk as I am rolling.
WTF?
So, ok I say, these are run flats, I drive the next 100 yards to park, get out and see on my right rear, a HUGE piece of metal like a railroad spike in my tire.
Damn. Double Damn!@!!$!#$
I take about 5 minutes, and I am able to pull it out of the tire.
Damn, thats big, and long.. (now cmon keep your minds in the right place)
As I am pulling it out, I can hear the rubber, its toast, its shredding, and I know this will be too big to patch.
SO, after its out, I figure, ok, they say you can drive 200M, at 50MPH max.
Back on to LSD, drive home and on the way I am going to pass McGrath.
Hmmm cars runs pretty good, definitely not as good as having intact tires, but up to 50MPH, little more noise, slight pull to the right (very slight) and handles pretty darn well while on runflats, with one flat.
Get to Acura...
Damn that was big the cute service girl tells me when she saw what I pulled out. (again keep your minds in the right place!)
You pulled that out of your tire??
Yep, drove 16 miles to get here.
Ok sweetie I say... when I bought this car, they told me, if you have any problems with a runflat- BRING IT TO THE DEALER.
No problem she says, its 7pm we'll get you a loner (got an RL right away) and we'll call you tomorrow.

Today, this afternoon...Sir, your tire will be in in 2 hours, they are sending a complete tire and rim.
Apparently that spike was so long, it actually damaged the runflat donut in the rim, it was leaking too, so they are just replacing the entire rim, tire and runflat structure, its a complete new rim and rubber.
Huh, shit, how much is this gonna cost....
Well I looked up your warranty sir, and your car comes with a 2 year road hazard warranty, it doesnt expire until 11/07 (i knew this, but I wanted to see if they were going to try to pull one, or if they really did know their product).
Great!
Do I owe anything for the wear of the tire.... (now I am expecting to pay a pro-rata)
Nope, no charge, you can pick up your car later this afternoon, around 5:30.
Yep, it was ready, new rubber, new rim, and just like new.
Now I had 33K on the rubber, but apparently these tires LAST.
New is 9/32.
My other 3 are 7/32.

Guys, the runflats worked, and Acura worked.
Peace of mind, I thought I was buying it, and its what I got.
By the way, I was driving an 07 RL with regular tires.
Drove like a soft pig compared to the runflats.
The runflats DO let me run the car harder, very similar to other performance tires I had on other cars.
So, in the future, I wont avoid the Mich runflats, they are good, and they DO WORK.

neuronbob

Awesome story! I'm glad to hear you weren't significantly inconvenienced.

SpicyMikey

agree. great story.

I have runflats on my RL also. I felt the same way when I test drove both. The car rides better/quieter with these tires without question. However, I also was worried about that day I got a flat. Glad to see the process worked.

Now tell us more about that cute service gal........

Roy Cya

+1

lland

Glad to see the process work.

My big concern is having a tire lose air somewhere out in the boonies. I know I probably won't get stuck but it could be a pretty big inconvenience if an Acura (or Honda) dealer is not very close. I wonder if you go to any PAX authorized dealer if the full 2 year road hazard warranty will be honored (or if you need the Acura records) and if necessary, will they ship an Acura rim to an independent michelin dealer.

LL

sri_gondi

Thats great..

Lucky you had to drive only 16 miles to get to a dealer. I think we might feel a little discomfort if we had to drive say around 50-100 miles in the interstates. I have 06 Tech . I am glad to hear that the PAX warranty and service works. One question comes to my mind too...same one as asked by lland. do we need to show any paper work to get the service of 2 yrs road hazard.warranty ...?

sotiri

I didnt have to show a thing. They looked it up in the computer, and took care of it.
If you are not able to get to an Acura dealer, then I believe the same thing would apply as if you had a breakdown in your auto, and you had to have a regular repair done because you were out of the network of Acura or it was impossible to get the car to an Acura service center (which when you travel interstate-its very likely) and then you pay for the repair and Acura would have to reimburse you for it.
That is not unreasonable IMO.

Chas2

Great story, good to hear the system worked.

I wonder if the TLC number would have worked or if they would have shunted you off to the Michelin 877 PAX TIRE line.

Interestingly, the Michelin PAX warranty talks about the two year road hazard for tire replacement and demounting/mounting at no charge, but not about entire wheel tire replacement There is a PAX FAQ that says dealers handle the warranty differently, and replace only the wheel tire combination. This implies you have the choice of either using the dealer or Michelin, and in cases like this, I would opt for the dealer so you can get a loaner car, etc.

By the way, Michelin says 125 miles max at 55 or lower in both the FAQ and the warranty

Not stated in the warranty, but stated in the FAQ is the rapid response plan if you are outside the 125 mile radius.

Q: What happens if a driver with a flat can't get to a car or Michelin authorized servicing dealer?
A: When a consumer calls the toll-free number, 1-877-PAX-TIRE, Michelin will advise the consumer on how to service their PAX System tire. If a car dealer or a Michelin- authorized servicing dealer is not within the recommended driving range for a deflated tire, Michelin will direct the consumer to drive to a safe location and then initiate a rapid-response delivery plan, rushing a complete PAX System wheel/tire assembly to that location within 12 hours of notification of the service request. In the unlikely event that a wheel/tire assembly cannot be delivered the same day, Michelin will reimburse the vehicle driver for the cost of overnight accommodation.

andrewmr

Good story... here's a twist (question)....

You know how when you go in to BUY one tire and they say you should really replace the whole set (due to differences in wear) or at least the pair. let's say the other three tires had more wear on them, would they have replaced the others because as they say, you should replace them in sets.....

SpicyMikey

Don't count on it

By the way, I suspect the reason they replaced the entire wheel/tire assembly was because they didn't have a tire changer there for the PAX tires. Most Acura dealers still don't have the ability to change a pax tire. In that case they just ship an entire assembly to the dealer and the dealer sends the wheel back to be reused on the next assembly. It's a stop gap measure until dealers catch up and either get new tire changers or retrofit their existing ones.

sotiri

no, they changed out the entire thing because the damage was so great, it was covered under the road hazard.
that spike was 5"+and wide.

Chas2

The answer would be no. The road hazard warranty, which is a two year or 50% treadlife, whichever comes first, covers the tire and the inner supporting ring. So long as the damage happened less than two years and the tires had 50% tread on them, the damaged tire, and in this case, support ring, would have been changed out for free, including labor costs, but not necessarily taxes and fees (such as tire disposal), depending on the state.

As the others said, the fact that the entire wheel assembly was changed was a matter of convenience because most Acura dealers do not have the PAX tire changers, which include the ability to change the support ring. I understand that most Acura dealers have a couple of PAX spares sitting in the dealership to cover such an eventuality. It is still likely cheaper than purchasing the PAX capable machine and training the techs, so the dealer probably won't do that until they are forced to by Michelin.

I wonder if the low initial sales of the RL is a factor in any agreement Acura has with Michelin for installation of those PAX capable machines. Notice that most every large Honda dealer has those machines installed as of this year. I wonder if that is based on the sales volume of the Oddy Touring Pkg--although I hear unconfirmed rumors that PAX is no longer a forced option on the Touring Pkg for 2008.

SpicyMikey

Oh yea, you did say that. None the less, what I said, and what Chas confirmed, is still true. They usually replace everything because it's faster and they don't need to have the tire changer. Personally, I don't like that idea. No doubt these wheels are refurbs. I'm sure they tested them on a highspeed balancer but I'd still rather have my wheel back since I know it's history

sotiri

I didnt see any flaws or any issues with what they gave me.
frankly, I felt more comfortable with them changing it all out, rather than having repaired rubber.
Glass half empty or glass half full.

lland

Exactly what my dealer told me...if you get a flat now, before we get the equipment, we will just replace the tire/wheel assembly with a new one (within the 2 year road hazard warranty period).

LL

nyjohnchan

I just wonder if the new tire that they put on will get another 2 years warranty?

Chuck091279

Ok, so I just bought my RL used with 22k miles on the tires. Treadwear is very minimal and I have a puncture (that has been patched) in the outside sidewall of one of my tires. The car was originally purchased in late December 05. Should I take my car in before th end of this month to get the 2 year road hazard program warranty? Does it transfer to the second owner? Not really sure what to do...

backfire

Can someone give me a list of what items are needed to replace the PAX run flats. I am planning to replace after this flat tire fiasco. i will post my story when I finish the book thus far Michelin and Acura dealer have sucked

Chas2

Aside from the new wheels, tires and TPMS, you just need the spare and associated bits. Your PAX are equivalent to 245/45-18s. Your rear shocks are a different part number than no PAX cars. I guess I would not do anything about that until you get the new wheel tire assemblies on and load up the trunk with the spare, and try it out. The ride and handling while different may be perfectly fine...I do not know, but suspect the extra weight of the PAX assemblies called for different shock tuning. The four spring part numbers are identical to non PAX cars as are the front shocks.

This list is from someone else on the boards that did the research, I wish I could remember who that good soul is! The cost a couple of years ago was between $500-600 worth of parts. Tim at HondaAcuraWorld.com will ship it all for $3.95

* Trunk Spacer Assembly (Part number: 84542-SJA-A00)
* Adapter - Spare Tire (74651-S2x-003)
* Bolt - Spare Tire (74652-SDA-003
* Label - Spare Tire Adapter - Not really needed but cheap (74653-SJA-003)
* Nut - Wheel (90304-SJH-A91) - Need 20 of them or 16 and a set of wheel locks
* Disk Aluminum Wheel (this is the spare) - 17x4T (42700-SJA-J51)

You may also need to buy the actual spare tire from someone like the tire rack, and get it mounted.

Let us know how it turns out. One day I would like to do that and perhaps more, like change to A-Spec or Touge's Teins...but then I think I may also have to worry about repointing the radar.

Jackzilla

The most expensive item on this list is the mini-spare and aluminum rim. It's a beautiful, high quality. piece, unlike any other mini-spare you'll see. Costs like it too -- price from Acura, even with a discount is over $350.

Best and lowest cost source is Ebay Motors or auto salvage network. I was lucky enough to get one on Ebay for $35, plus shipping of about another $35. Condition was "like new". Got it about 6 months ago in anticipation of eventually switching the regular wheels and tires -- probably for sure now with PAX situation.

Take off RL wheels and tires are listed on Ebay pretty regualarly at about $800 to $1000 for a complete set, including center caps and TPMS sensors.

Chuck091279

So I took my RL in about two weeks ago and they replaced the PAX tire and gave me a new one. I looks like it's the same wheel. Someone had mentioned that they just run the tires over to a Just Tires store, get the wheel put it on the car. Quite frankly, I haven't had any major issues with the PAX wheels/tires yet, so switching it out is a bit over the top for me.

But, in the meantime, I have found some sweet rims that I'd like to put on!

SpicyMikey

I agree Chuck. I like the tires and will only replace them if the economics of the situation warrant it. If they stay at the same price and availability I'll stay with them.

I have 7k miles on the car and there's only slight wear based on my tread gauge. Still shows about 9+ 32nds. I think they will get a good 40-50k

Chuck091279

I bought my RL with 22k miles. On the night I picked it up, I had the svc. manager come out and look at the tires. He said that the tires looked like they were brand new and would easily hit 45-55k. As I said, it's all about how you maintain your car too. I have seen that if you rotate your tires w/every other oil change...they will last. Oh and only balance them at Acura.

Anyways, if I can get 50k from these tires, I'll probably get run flats again. I'm not big into customizing cars etc. By about 90-100k I'll probably trade it in. On my TSX I have 62k miles on the original tires and just now I have to replace them. I have had a nail in 1 TSX tire in those 62k miles.

I'm going to wait it out and see how this whole situation plays out. Being the flagship of their line, I think Acura will do "something" for us - if needed.

SpicyMikey

If nothing else, I would hope Acura will provide a "formal" migration path away from the tires. Right now their formal position is "no other tire is supported for this car"

lland

Unfortnately, as long as PAX tires are available, which Michelin said they would be, they have no need nor any responsibility to migrate us to anything and as long at they are "as available" as they are today (which we all know is kind of hit and miss), we are no worse off.

LL

SpicyMikey

That may or may not be true. You could argue that because these tires are discontinued (and because the RL uses special wheels that only work with this tire) these cars have lost value. Who would want to buy a car with wheels that only work with a tire that is no longer made. Thinking like a lawyer for a second, that will definitely strengthen those class actions that are already out there for PAX tires.

It would probably be wise for Honda to offer a way for the customer to move away from the tire. Doesn't have to be free. Just offer a supported conversion

lland

The tires aren't discontinued, just PAX research which means there will be no new PAX models coming out. Michelin stated they will continue to support current PAX owners. In theory, it should make no difference to us.

Chuck091279

I agree with SpicyMikey. In terms of corporate momentum towards new technologies, it would be a blow to Acura if they didn't offer a migration path. Their most expensive flagship sedan was outfitted with a technology that died and Acura provided their customers no level of service. I think consumers would become very weary in terms of purchasing new technologies like this in the future.

Chas2

both weary and wary!