23109VC

I recently bought 18" Aspecs to put onto my RL. I'll be adding H&R springs soon as well.

I currently have the PIlot Sport A/S+ on my existing 17s. I don't mind these tires at all.. they have decent comfort and compared to my old MXMs, they handle much better.... BUT... maybe the SS would be even better...

price wise I"m looking at about

$235/tire for A/S+
$265/tire for SS

I know Ballinger is running a set of Supersports... anyone else here run them and what do you think? A friend of mine felt that I'd be "wasting" the performance capability of the SS on a heavy car like the RL... but didn't Acura put high performance summer tires on RLs' with the 18" wheels???

anyone have a guesstimate what kind of mileage these two tires would deliver? in past cars that ran ultra high performance tires I usually got around 15k miles... so I'm a bit wary that the SS might not last me that long.. although those were cars that I drove the snot out of..and hte RL is a daily driver that I will not drive the same way...

part of me thinks an A/S + will give me 80% of the handling but a lot longer life.. a good bang for the buck.. but the other half says "F** it" buy the tires that kick a$$....

037

Didn't try the Michelins but I did get to compare Continental DWS (all season) vs Continental DW (summer).

RL dropped on H&Rs really felt like a porsche as far as handling goes, I could throw it into corners and let SH-AWD sort it out, there was a silly incident where I took a 35mph turn at 90...and the tires held.

Compared to DWS, they were definitely MUCH MUCH stickier. The one thing to remember is that it's not a porsche and stopping distances are still long (I had slotted rotors and stronger pads which helped as well as SS brake lines).

I'm not sure where you're getting your prices from but 245/45/18 I have never had to pay more than $180 per tire shipped.

If you need the extra grip, go right ahead, if not...save the money and enjoy Pilots, the original A/S did wonders for my previous cars.

BDoggPrelude

That's because Michelins cost a good deal more than Continentals and Continentals carry a much higher profit margin at retailers.

OP, the question you need to ask yourself is how hard are you honestly going to drive the car. Honestly 99% of drivers will never push their car hard enough to see the true performance value of the Pilot Super Sport. If you don't think you'll be pushing the car to limits frequently I would advise getting the Pilot A/S Plus. They cost less and will probably last nearly twice as many miles.

037

I'm not really sure what you were trying to say by your response. Performance of the Conti's is comparable to Michelins at a much cheaper price tag. Not quite sure what is accomplished by going w/ Michelins. Conti's DWS have a 1 year road hazard warranty too. Excellent deal in my book along with 50k tread warranty.

BDoggPrelude

The Pilot Super Sports will outperform the DW's period. Michelins also come with a road hazard plan, free roadside assistance for 3 years and a 30 day trial guarantee...not to mention world class customer service. Coninental's customer service blows, trust me.

037

well, I don't need to deal with Continental as I get my tires from discounttiredirect.com and they replace tires if you get their warranty. I've replaced 2 and I bought warranty after I screwed up my tires, they still sent me 2 new tires for like $75.

As far as out performing, when we take the RL into the account, I think the difference will be slim to none. We're not talking Formula 1 cars.

So, basically it's a much higher price for a performance difference you're never likely to see.

I'll take the link which shows how much better they are, just out of curiocity.

BDoggPrelude

Here you go. The Pilot Super Sport outperformed the DW in basically every single category.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=148

I have the DW's. They're a great tire for the money but believe me, had the Michelins not been double the cost of the Conti's, I would be riding on Pilot Super Sports right now.

23109VC

not interested in contis. i had a set of them on a former car and did not like them.

i have always been happy with performance oriented Michelins. I plan to stick with that brand. Either SS or A/S+.

I like the idea of ultra stick.... BUT.. I also want them to last a long time.

why is it you can't have your cake and eat it too...

23109VC

I've read a lot of the reviews on tirerack.com. The A/S+ have generally good reviews, some negative though. Many of the negative reviews criticize it for high noise when the mileage gets high. some people did report getting 40k+ out of them, however.

the PSS had less reviews, obviously, as it's not as widely purchased....and more of the reviewers were in high end sports cars - but there were a handful of people who drove something like a Lexus GS or other car similar to an RL. Everyone who reviewed the supersport said things like "it literally transforms your car". makesm e want to get them.

they give the PSS a 30k miles warranty. the A/S+ a 45k mile warranty.

anyone think a PSS would really go 30k miles... assuming you didn't drive crazy all the time? if they warranty it that long is must stand a realistic chance to last that long or more.... I just know when I was younger.. driver sportier cars and driving harder.. PS2s would last me 10-15k miles.. maybe 20k max. not that long. but then again, I drove HARD. that's what happens when you have ultra sticky tires... you push it.

BDoggPrelude

If you're worried about not getting the full mileage out of them just make sure you buy them locally from a reputable dealer that can easily take care of the warranty for you.

Ballinger

Remember: the Super Sports have the newest, super-zoot rubber formulation that's not in the A/S. Check out how heavy the cars are that the SS was designed for and you'll see why they're quite well-suited for the RL, too.

This is currently the flagship Michelin for sedans, and since I live in a summer/rain climate area, I've been very happy with the tires through both kinds of weather. I'm getting creases in my face from grinning.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

is this the same technology cole trickle had in days of thunder??

23109VC

The contis I ran years ago were contis port contacts. I never reallly liked em much. This was prob 6-7 years ago...

I do have to admit, the conti prices are a lot better. The conti extreme contact is $186 per tire vs 235 for the a/s+ and 265 for PSS.

TReadwear rating for the extreme contacts is 340. Not bad for a high perf summer tire. 037, how did they ride? One thing Ido recall about michelins was they always seemed to have a super smooth and relatively comfortable ride, even in the hi performance category.

Some lesser expensive performance tires grip, but are too harsh....

23109VC

the local tire shop says they will match prices.

I found the Pilot Sport A/S+ online for about $180/tire
I found the Pilot Super Sport oinline for about $230/tire

assuming the tire shop will actually match these prices.. i'm lookin gat a $200 increase to get the SS tires..which arguably will last about 15k miles less.... but those 30k miles will be more fun... at least "some" of them will.

my driving consists of commuting to work and back, and also driving places with the kiddies.... the occasional on/off ramp and 90 degree turns provide about my only form of "fun" in this car... I will never track my car, as I doubt any of you do.. but it sure if fun to tak ea corner fast and feel like your car sticks like glue... even if my RL is a 4000 lb sedan.. it would be fun to have the ability to make myself giggle to death as I blast to work and home ...

temptation..... temptation....

BDoggPrelude

Just go with the Pilot Super Sports. I would've loved to get them but they would have cost me an extra $600 over the DW's and I couldn't justify the price tag when I was having to buy wheels at the same time. Next time around when I'm only having to purchase the tires I'm definitely going to splurge on the Michelins.

The DW has a very soft ride, too soft if you ask me. Their turn in response is horrific compared to other UHP summer tires due to their soft sidewalls. They've also had numerous complaints about sidewall damage.

Your local Discount Tire/America's Tire will match any internet price after shipping and can handle any warranty issues for in house.

23109VC

My wife wants me to get the longer lasting tires. I want the super sports .

While I won't notice them in the straights, I'm the kind of person who will appreciate them in the turns...

You only live once...

BDoggPrelude

You really can't go wrong either way. The Pilot A/S Plus has the best wet traction of any tire I've ever driven on. Like I said before, if you don't think you're going to drive the car pretty aggressively frequently the Pilot A/S Plus are probably a better option for you.

037

apart from excellent handling I noticed that DWs and DWS seemed to ride softer than my previous tires, one of them as a Michelin Saver A/S and the other was Michelin MXM4's.

I generally have them inflated 36psi cold

NJ06RL

I ran Mich Pilot Sport A/S on our RL's OEM 17 inch rims for about 38k miles. Pretty happy with them, much better than the OEM Mich HX MXM4s. They did get a little noisier towards the end but even in last year's freak snowstorm in Oct, they did quite well with nearly 40k miles on them. Currently, I've gone downmarket to Falken Azenis 722s on 18x8 aftermarket rims for the RL and I'm still quite happy.

A dealer recommended Mich Super Sports for my convertible but I went with Conti DWS instead due to the lower price - no regrets. Happy with the Contis as well. But hey, different make and model car ...

Ballinger

The Super Sports have the higher rain traction rating... being optimized for dry and rain, without snow.

http://michelinman.com/tire-selector...FcMbQgodVHhiaQ

"Much safer for the children in the rain, especially during braking".

23109VC

Ballinger - I tried that line with my wife and she doesn't buy it.. "honey, the PSS will have more grip in the rain and be safer... think of the children!".... ahahahahaa.

i'm wondering if on street conditions - could most of us even tell the difference between PSS and Pilot Sport A/S+???

the most aggressive driving I ever do with my car is occasionally take a hard turn on the street... like an on/off ramp, or some 90 degree turns... I'm not doing canyon runs or taking the car to the track... BUT, just bvecause I have no plans to track the car, doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy nice handling ability.

I'm clearly trying to increase my cars performance - I'm upsizing to 18s and I'm adding H&R springs. But I'm also not trying to turn it into a track car... I'm looking for a nice blend of luxury/ride/performance.

both of my tire options are really good at that... both the PSS and PIlot sport A/S+ are comfortable tires that perform really well... the main differences are :

price - PSS will cost $200 more for the set
perfrmance - the PSS shoudl outperform the A/S+ by a fair amount
treadlife - the A/S+ shoudl last 15k miles MORE.

Here are the things I'm not sure about though... how much longer will the A/S+ *really* last, or worded differently, how quickly would PSS really wear out? the PSS has a 300 treadwear rating and a 30k mile warranty. the A/S+ has a 45k mile warranty... For driving like mine - mostly commuting with occasional aggressive driving - I wonder if the PSS might actually last longer than 30k... OR is it the case that the PSS will be *lucky* to last 30k and the A/S+ will really go well eyond the 45k?

I drive about 10k/year. so if the mileage warranties are spot on - I'm gaining 1.5 years of tire life by just buying the A/S+.

also - i'm really really curious how much difference one could feel between the two on street driving. is it the case that a car guy like me, who does push the car once in a while - will notice that the PSS sticks like glue and is the best tire in teh while world... and the A/S+ will be substantially "less" of a tire.. or is it really a situation where on city streets..even the occasional on/off ramp blast will not be hard enough to really notice the difference between these two tires???

It's all subjective, and based on what i want to focus on, I could talk myself into eithe rset of tires.

I used to run PS2s on my S60R... so I know what fun grippy tires are like... but I also don't drive my RL the way I used to drive my R. I took that car to the track where it ran with M3s... the RL is way more focused on luxury... and I'm not trying to turn my RL into a hardcore sports sedan...

my guess is I'll probably go with the Pilot Sport A/S+.. not because I need all seasons.. but because I want a longer lasting tire - and it makes more sense to give up a bit of max performance to gain the longer treadwear. $200 cheaper to buy, and 1.5 years more life... if you add that up over a few sets of tires.. and factor 10k of usage per year..

the PSS will last 3 years, 30k miles. at about $1150 OTD = $.038 per mile
the A/S+ will last 4.5 years, at about $950 OTD = $.02 per mile.

so even though it's only $200 differnce for the set, when you factor in the wear/life of the tire - the PSS actually cost almost twice as much.

23109VC

i stopped into the amercia's tire today over lunch to look at tires, show them my online prices, etc.... guy selling the tires basically said he would totally put supersports on my RL... almost was trying to talk me into them over the A/S+.... he also mentioned that in one week, Michelin starts their $70 rebate....

is this a sign???

Ballinger

Dude, you don't have the time to agonize over this like you did over wheels. Wait for the $70 deal to hit, get the SS tires on there and revel in the wisdom that you bought the SMOOTHER RIDING tires to compensate for the slammed-low, street racer springs you put on there. The last thing you need is a harsh ride ta damage yo neons, bro.

Look at it this way: after three years of comfortable, safe driving, you can assess whether to swap in A/S or drop the dime(s) on another set of SS. In the meantime, better braking, better accident avoidance and the fact that Michelin uses Axe Body Spray in the sidewall rubber will have various housewives in the neighborhood groping you like the Diet Coke construction guy for the next three years.

SSjTrunks112O

A/S+ would be better for NY winters (except for the last one) than the PSS's right? Because that's what I'm leaning towards plus I don't see PSS's for 17" wheels on Tirerack for the oem wheel size. Also, how would the Versado's compare in this equation? The Aziners that have them speak quite highly of them..

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I would take the Versados over my DWS all day, but I dont want to add to the agony. LoL

SSjTrunks112O

Is there any significant difference between LX & LX II, or are the II's just the newer model? Also where are the best deals on Versado's? I have a guy at STS out here that has them but STS website A/S+'s and DWS's are quite a bit higher than Tirerack..

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/ve...l-season-tires

http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/ve...l-season-tires

I cant help you with a deal, I usually do a google comparison and bite the bullet.

Ballinger

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

LoL Bi is definitely hot... but that tire does not look all-season.

037

had DWS on my RL and now have them on my Genny, best all season tire grip in my opinion. Best value for the $$$ as well. New York tested, of course.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

You have a Genny?!?!

Of course this is all opinion and we see very different weather conditions:

in wet, the DWS is superior and seems to preform its best in this scenario.

in the dry, the Versado handles better, has a stiffer sidewall.
The DWS do have a tendency to get a flat spot over night, I would think because of the softer sidewall

Hands down the Versados are quieter and tend to squeal less when pitched in a corner. (probably the stiffer sidewall)

I did not have a lot of ice this winter, but I know for certain the Versados performed well in the past winter conditions. I would expect the same from the DWS especially with the softer compound.

They are both great tires, but the choice is simple for me... if someone wanted my DWS now I would switch them out in a heart beat.

Ballinger

It's not! It's rain/sun, no snow. This is a warm/wet weather tire, with Michelin's best wet and dry handling. By putting this tire on, one must anticipate staying away from snow and icy roads. The OP and I live in SoCal and, although both of use go to snowy/icy places, I have made a decision not to do so again with the RL. I have other cars for that.

So, with by sacrificing trips to ski in the RL, I get a great ride, fantastic behavior in the rain and fantastic handling as I cruise the winding roads along the crashing shores of the sunny Pacific, stopping only to purchase carnitas tacos from roadside stands and to sign autographs on the heaving chests of the young women who seem so intractably drawn to the RL since I put these tires on.

But, to each his own. I'm sure the A/S will be fine.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Well then if OP is avoiding the snow too I would not even put an all weather tire in the equation...

Otherwise the info is there.

Ballinger

I think the obvious issue is the fact that the A/S Pilots are a great handling tire that has harder/longer lasting rubber than the SS, which handle and brake even better --except on snow/ice.

The OP is struggling with issues of frugality and practicality vs. self-indulgence and performance. I think the A/S and the SS are in the mix, because they're the best two choices out there. I know they were for me, and I went through this same analysis...albeit more quickly.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

This seems appropriate...

23109VC

Balinger hit the nail on the head. I am only considering the pilot sport A/S+ because it will last longer. A 45k warranty vs the PSS 30k warranty... I have an SH-AWD MDX for any trips to the snow..

I'm torn between spending 200 more on a set of tires that will probably last about a year less.... I'm really curious HOW much better the PSS are in the dry. I don't track the RL but I do enjoy the turns...

If the PSS are a 10 and the A/S+ are a 9 I'll save my money. If the A/S+ are a 5-6 and the PSS are a 10, I'd buy PSS.

How much better "more funner" , as a friend says, would the PSS be??

037

or you can get Conti DWs and get 95% of SS at half the price...ez

neuronbob

If you want to explore the limits of SH-AWD more easily and you never, ever drive in snow or cold weather...PSS hands down. If you want to save some money and get longer tread life, plus survive the rare run to Big Bear, get the Pilot A/S+. The Continental DWs are not bad, either. I have not experienced them personally, but I hear a lot of good things about them.

037

for someone who hasn't experienced them, saying not bad is not really a compliment. I took them 90mph into 35mph turn and I can say they're freagin awesome with SH-AWD!

just keep the foot on the gas or you'll hit a wall...

23109VC

Contis are not half price. Cheapest online price is around 180-185. Same price as A/S+. PSS is not much more, $225.

The practical side of me is at odds with the self indulgent side... It's like the little angela on each shoulder arguing over which tires to buy. I'm gonna order them tomorow..... I'll sleep on it...

My sprIngs are here too.. Getting those installed next week!!