konst_ms

Verizon representative told me today that new Verizon bluetooth cell phone Motorolla E815 is going to be available Sunday July 3rd through all the Circuit City countrywide.

It would be really interesting to hear from the people who try it with RL Hands Free Link and review their observations.

Official information on http://www.acura.com/models/handsfreelink/hfl_index.asp is still "Currently Testing"

vp911

I am thinking about running to a CC store in the morning and buying it... I'm not sure yet, but I would like to.

hendjaz

The 815 should work great with the RL HFL. I have had the 710 paired with the RL (also in Seattle) for many months and it works great. I think the 815 has the vcast video ability plus a sharper camera lens but not sure what other advantages it may have over the 710. Will be interested to hear from those who may migrate to the 815 from the 710. In any event I am sure it will work well with the RL through the bluetooth pairing.

vp911

no go on the phone yesterday. they pushed the release date to the 5th.

gbriank

Yeah, 4th of July sales usually suck (everyone is out enjoying the day with friends and family). Wonder if the 815 has data transmission abilities (unlike the V710)?

vp911

It won't. They are going to block BT. In the Circ city flyer it says "certain bluetooth profiles" or something to point out that you can use it for HFL or a headset....

vp911

E815 pairs with the car flawlessly. Signal strength, Battery life as well as CID are all displayed.

konst_ms

I wonder if you have to push any buttons on the phone when you enter the car for the handsfree system to connect to it? I mean AFTER all the pairing is done. Does the phone radiates the Bluetooth signal all the time (shoud be killing the battery) or how exactly this works?

And when you want to dial something, does it work through the phone's voice recognition system or how?

Thanks!
Konstantin

vp911

Konstantin - Once it is paired, if you leave the bluetooth on (in the phone settings) you do not have to do anything once you enter the car. Just turn on the car, wait a few seconds and it will automatically connect to the car.

As far as dialing, there are two buttons on the steering wheel between the two left spokes. The top one you can push and say "Dial xxx-xxx-xxxx (the number)" You can also program upto 50 numbers in the cars phone book, then you would push the button and say "dial *persons name*".

The bluetooth does kill the battery; however, most users (who do not use their phone a TON) it doesn't matter as long as they charge it every night. I use my phone roughly 4000 minutes a month - so I have to charge daily anyways.

konst_ms

So you are saying that even when BT is configured on the phone to be always ON the battery still survives for 24 hours, right? That's not bad at all, because I casually recharge my phone nightly.

vp911

Yes. Depending on the phone though. e.g. With the v710 I was forced to get the extended battery or the phone would die in the middle of the day. On the other hand, the e815 I am using the standard battery and it has lasted me all day without problems.

GSM phones on the other hand (cingular and t-mobile) generally last a lot longer than verizon/sprint/nextel phones.

Dgunsuh

From what I read, the 815 has longer battery life, more internal memory, and a better camera. Other than that, they are very similar phones that look a little different. Knowing Verizon, they probably blocked the full capability of the phone like it did with the 710.

vp911

You are correct on every point. They did block everything, batt life is longer, there is more memory, camera is a lot better (even though I personally will never use a phone camera again - just for fun when I first bought it).

The keypad is 10000% better than the old one. The build quality is much better on the 815

konst_ms

Ok, just got my own. For $49.95 (no rebates or other crap)

I paired it with HFL just fine, but as soon as I finished I got a message on the nav screen saying that there is a connection to pair and giving me a choice of Easy way or Custom way.

Easy way doesn't have Verizon listed, so I switched to Custom way and was asked the following:
1. Connection Name
2. Dial string
3. PPP user name
4. PPP password

Now I'm confused. Is it really for HFL or actually for AcuraLink?
If the latter is there a way to make it work with Verizon phone?

Thanks!
Konstantin

catsailr

I think that is for AcuraLink. I have the V710 and have never been able to get the AcuraLink to work. As you said, there is no option for Verizon. Haven't tried the custom setup. The HFL works fine.

catsailr

I saw an E815 on ebay yesterday with a buy-it-now price of $369.99.

Peter_L

The follow-up message on the NAV screen is for AcuraLink setup. AcuraLink and VZW are not currently compatible because VZW locks down the data features. There is hope that VZW will allow this in the future, but for now just ignore the setup screen and enjoy the HFL feature!

hendjaz

"Ok, just got my own. For $49.95 (no rebates or other crap)"

Konstatin, where did you get the 815 for this price, in Seattle via retail outlet or via phone/internet order? If from VZW then did automatically get a new 2 year contract? Thanks.

konst_ms

It was internet order through VZW site for busineses (B2B). Yes it was supposed to prolong my contract for another two years, but... when I tried to activate it by phone and at the same time transfer my existing phone to my girlfriend's number, this operation was too hard for the representative to comprehend, so I went to the store. It took them an hour (literally!) to perform the activation, but on the bright side it doesn't look like I signed a new contract or moved my phone upgrade eligibility date! Yes, this sounds like an error from their side, but I spent hours of my precious time on them and don't want to spend any more explaining them where they cheated themselves.

Benush

If you are truly concerned with what Verizon did and did not block I would suggest that you visit HowardForums on the internet. There is a complete "How To" on removing all the blocks that Verizon has implemented.

I bought the E815 (free with 2 year contract and "new every two" and rebate) so that when I buy my RL I can have a phone that works with BT and a service carrier in Montana (Verizon has a monpoly).

Anyway, If you "really" want a fully capable E815 just check out HowardForums and you will an entire section dedicated to the E815 and how to modify it so that everything works. You will need to buy a cable and some software (about $25 through Ebay) but everything else - patches and downloads are free from various websites.

konst_ms

Benush, believe it or not I did it all. I mean all the tricks HowardForums have up to date. And supposingly my E815 is fully unblocked now. Is there a way to make it work with AcuraLink? (It works with HFL anyways). What are the meanings of the AcuraLink setup questions?
1. Connection Name
2. Dial string
3. PPP user name
4. PPP password

Benush

Possibly you can get it to work with AcuraLink, but you may end up voiding your verizon contract. First let me say I am not anywhere near an expert. My days of working with computer code start in 83 (yes 1983) but ended before the days of C++ and I have "some" experience with communication protocols back when Hayes modems ruled the earth and the Internet was just for a few of us nerds and geeks that thought it was cool, but the communications protocols that Verizon has so that you can use OnStar with your Verizon account are "as I know it" not the same as AcuraLink. Hence you can let OnStar subscription expire and not lose AcuraLink.

First let me say that I "think" that you are fighting CDMA (Verizon's access) versus GSM (how most of the rest of the world uses cell phones) and probably what AcuraLink uses. If that "is" the case then you are working with two different bands and I doubt that an E815 or any phone using CDMA will ever be able to use AcuraLink.

For the moment we will presume that access to AcuraLink can and is done via CDMA.

With that said - did you set up the DUN (Dial Up Networking) using the SEEM edits? If yes, then theoretically you should be able to use the same protocol (though I'm not privy to it) as AcuraLink. The down side (and its a big one) is that if Verizon catches you, you will probably lose your contract and possibly have to pay the early termination fee of $175 OR ask to use their available service ($80 / month) and then tell them you need to hook to a specific carrier from time to time (AcuraLink) and ask ACS to supply the information. Then it should be as simple as entering the information.

I consider that the proverbial rock and a hard place. Use AcuraLink easily with one phone that should have been opened in the first place or to pay Verizon alot of money for services that other providers consider the trivial (okay enough of my soapbox). anyway, with that said..

To answer your questions
1. Connection name is probably specific and maybe related to VIN code - so that they know which vehicle is talking
2. Dial string is probably generic starting with a pound sign followed by 5 numbers that connects every Acura
3. "IF" Connection Name is specific then PPP user name "Point to Point Protocol" is a generic specific name that is used for all of Acura to access
4. As above the PPP password is again probably generic but specific to Acura so the powers that be can figure out who to send the bill to for using the system.

The reasons PPP would be generic would be the huge database needed to isolate who was using which PPP connection but having a unique Connection name would allow a simple verification of the name and then common access was a connection was established and verified.

The first two you should be able to get out of most service managers. They would need them to verify your system is working properly

The PPP, not so easy, buy maybe some enterprising hacker (make that inquisitive computer programmer) on one of the Acura/Honda sites would go in to the CD and look for the info. It will probably be in Hex code.

As I go back over this it appearrs that I've given you a complicated bunch of worthless maybes, but I don't have the words (and probably knowledge) to make the information (such as it is) useful.

I hope this helps, but I'm not certain that it has. Sorry I couldn't be of more help

Ben

Benush

Having a fair amount of doubt about what was happening, I called a friend and asked some serious questions about AcuraLink and the other protocols. AcuraLink has nothing to do with CDMA or GSM. It rides on the same waves as XM/Sirius. Why you were asked to provide AcuraLink info in conjunction with pairing a BT phone he had not a clue. He drives another brand of car , but he IS knowledgeable about various communication systems and protocols. He thinks I was right about what type of information the systems is asking for regarding the Point to Point stuff but has no clues as to why. His words "kind of like asking a PC user to enter Mac information when installing Unix software." I wasn't brave enough to ask for the full explination of his explanation (besides it's getting late) but suffice it to say that he thinks you found a bug.

Next time I'll ask questions of the experts BEFORE I post long winded esoteric and completely useless information.

Ben

cspears

First timer, so bear with me...

Just bought the 815 today and it performed flawlessly. Pairing was simple and everyone I called said it sounded better than a normal wired earbud.

konst_ms

Actually I can hear the opposite party through HFL very well, but THEM complain that there is some noise which really disturbs them and doesn't allow to hear me very well. Bearable but not good. Hm-m... what can it be?
I need to experiment this evening.

catsailr

I think your friend is wrong that AcuraLink has nothing to to with CDMA or GSM. I'm no expert on this subject, but here is what the Acura site says:

The all-new AcuraLink™ satellite communication system enhances your vehicular experience by letting you communicate directly with Acura. It also offers North America's first real-time traffic feature. Utilizing XM® Satellite Radio, AcuraLink works in conjunction with your vehicle's navigation, HandsFreeLink™ (HFL), and audio systems to send and receive messages. AcuraLink has been programmed to provide handy, operational instructions with its Feature Guide, for up to the first 90 days of ownership. Maintenance Minder lets you know when your next Acura service is due. Diagnostic Info will assist you in diagnosing mechanical problems that could arise. Subsequent service requires a fee.

All I know is that Verizon is not listed in the AcuraLink setup menu, and if the HFL was not needed for AcuraLink, why would they have this in the setup?

vp911

Acuralink uses a combination of XM and HFL. The messages sent to your vehicle are sent from the XM satelites. Any diagnostic information that you send to acuralink must go through your HFL. Your vehicle is not equiped to transmit back to the XM satelites.

The reason acuralink does not work with VZW is because VZW has blocked the data communications. It is not because they use CDMA. Keep in mind sprint uses CDMA technology just like verizon and their T608 is 100% compatible with the acuralink system.

gbriank

This sucks! What are we going to have to do to get data comm? A petition?

vp911

Petition is unlikely to work with VZW. It will have to be acura putting pressure on VZW to allow this for us to use.

konst_ms

Wait a sec! Verizon wants additional money for data communications, but it is not "blocked". Even speaking about the "Bluetooth bottleneck" Motorola V710 has DUN (DialUp Networking profile that's the one used to make data calls through Bluetooth and cell phone) enabled and even for E815 where DUN is disabled by default it can be enabled as easy as by dialing "##DIALUP" quickly on the keyboard. Details about it can be found here: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=674803
Verizon wants 5$ monthly for WAP2.0 access. Here http://mobileweb4u.com/ this can be done way cheaper than that. There are also free gateways, but they are unreliable.
So we can make Verizon phones make data calls and it is easy and cheap. Now the question is how to make it work with "upstream" part of AcuraLink connection.

catsailr

I think the only pressure that will help with Verizon is if all customers would switch to a different service. I am happy with Verizon service expect for the data block. The phone is also blocked so you can't transfer directly from the phone to your computer. They want you to use their 'Get It Now' service so they can charge.

There was a class action lawsuit in CA over this block, but don't know what the outcome was.

vp911

Last rumor I heard was that VZW was going to let people out of their contract (the ones who are in on the lawsuit) but they were not going to unblock the transfers.

vp911

Interesting, I was not aware of this. Well I have an AT&T phone and the v710 and e815 so I will go play with the car. Unlikely I will figure anything out but I might as well try.

konst_ms

I finally made AcuraLink work through Verizon cell phone!
Only two things appeared to be relevant: 1. DUN Bluetooth profile must be enabled on the phone and 2. You must have some dialup connection available.

About DUN. It is enabled by default on Verizon Motorola V710 and CAN be easily enabled on E815 by quick dialing "##DIALUP" (with no quotes of course).

About dialup connection. You can buy one from any ISP (Internet Service Provider) you like or you can use one of the many FREE dialup providers available. I personally tried provider named NOCHARGE. Details how to connect to it are here: http://www.nocharge.com

So I started my RL, pressed Setup button and went to AcuraLink Setup. There I selected Custom Setup and entered the following for every step:

1. Connection Name - "NO CHARGE" (or whatever name you prefer)
2. Dial string - phone number of the ISP. I took the one in my area from this page: http://www.nocharge.com/connect.htm
3. PPP user name - "guest" (name and password are specific to NOCHARGE ISP)
4. PPP password - "password"
5. Done (selection named "Done" is below the screen border so one must be smart enough to scroll down for it)

Then AcuraLink proposes to connect to Acura server to verify the connection. First time it failed for me, but then I repeat and hurray! Connection confirmed!
When it connects you see just a progress bar on the Nav screen, but on the phone you can see that it first calls the number you specified in the Step 2 and then the phone says "Data connection at 14.4k".

Here we are! Enjoy!

vp911

Excellent post konst. I can't wait to go try it out.

Benush

I am impressed and happy to relay your discovery. It is so seldom that my friend is so wrong. I 'll call him tomorrow (right now its 1:50AM on the East Coast) and get him to read this thread. I've spent much of my adult life listening to him spout "fact" and never have much of a chance to show him he is wrong.

I do have a couple questions about using DUN. Does Verizon have any method to check and see if you are using your minutes for the DUN? Was I informed correctly that if you are caught you lose your contract and accumulate all the fines, etc. that go with it. I have my laptop plugged into a docking station and cable modem at home, but sometimes on the road in Montana, hotels don't have reliable connections and the cell connection would make life easier.

Again, thanks for proving my EE friend wrong. Gloating is not a good thing for a man of my advanced years, but it sure does feel good at the moment.

Ben

konst_ms

I don't really know, but the common sense answer is - yes.
Again don't really know, but... for preliminary termination of the contract you pay $175 (and keep the phone worth $300) while if you stay they get at least 1 year * $50 per month = $600. I don't think preliminary termination of the contract is favorable for them by any means.

By using these tricks we avoid paying Verizon separately for the data plan ($80 monthly which is IMHO robbery), that's it. If they would be really bothered by the few geeks hacking their phones, they'd find the way to actually block it, instead of "catching it".

Konstantin

catsailr

I bought an E815 last week. Paired it with the RL yesterday and it works fine.

PMokover

I'm planning to get an E815 for use in my 2005 RL. From what I've read here it seems that it should be easy pairing and everything works well. Is there anything I should know before I get the E815?

Peter

vp911

Verizon blocks the use of full bluetooth which is about it. Other than that the e815 is one of the best vzw phones I have used.