Hey psteng19,

Let me see if I got this straight. You "remember" some race between the RL and the M where the M beat out the RL. Yet you haven't PROVED it. Little ambigous, no?

I showed you a fact. Edmunds.com has two video clips showing the RL beating the M. And in one of those clips the narrator says the RL "was the fastest through the slalom". Yet you still insist on your point since you are able to "remember".

Go to Edmunds.com and watch the comparison and see the RL beat the M!!! That's a FACT.

 

Here's the link.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...arison%20Tests

 

Since when does a slalom include all the elements of a track?


Here's a test done at the Tsukuba Test Circuit: The Legend (USDM RL) ran a 1'12 around the circuit, while the 350GT (USDM M35) ran a 1'10.

I believe Best Motoring also did a similar comparo between the two on a track (unless it's the same one).

Still waiting for the apology...

 

Great memory, still waiting for actual proof!!!

Here's some truth for you. Enjoy.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...arison%20Tests

 

ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE!. I was holding this back to be nice, but here you go

From Consumer REports New Car PReview 2006 sumarry of road test results.

0-30, 0-60, 1/4 mi at seconds

RL: 2.6, 6.9, 15.4@93 (page 46)
M35x: 2.6, 7.0, 15.6@90 (page 48)

So, is the RL faster? Crap no, these are apples of the same shape and size!

 

Sorry Sopadepollo, I was responding in my last post to the Psteng19 person

 

NO Problem ilas,

I guess I also got carried away. But I can't help but get hot under the collar when people come to an Acura forum and start pissing on Acura in some of the most minute and pathetic ways.

Both of the restyled M and RL are amazing cars compared to their previouse generations. But Psteng19 saying that the M is faster on a track than the RL is only looking for a reaction.

You wont here me boasting how the puny V6 05 RL beat out the V8 powered 06 M45 sport in an Edmunds.com comparison. It serves no purpose and is not going to change anyones mind.

 

Indeed, I agree. I wonder if there are Acura owners going to M forums and posting flames...undoubtedly this is the case. It's so pointless. I crack up when someone says that car A is better than car B because it is 2/10ths of a second faster to 60 mph. Manufactures can play within those numbers simply using gear ratios.

 

"It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile...winnings winning".

 

OK, if winning is winning, then please pcroceed to the following link and enjoy the RL winning over the M.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...parison%20Tests

Looks like we're going back to this "mine's bigger than yours" pissing contest.

 

yeah, i guess you never saw the fast and the furious?

it's called "sarcasm"

 

No, I don't drive a tricked out four banger civic!!

 

Why you bashing civics now?

 

You know that is NOT fair. The Jan '05 M45 was the previous model (the current M was released in Mar '05). That's like comparing the '04 RL to the '05 - they afre NOT the same car.

 

A fact observation was posted and a question was asked. Who better to answer the question than those who seriously considered the RL and chose NOT to buy it! Some who chose to answer the question were vilified and condemned as ignorant, biased, Acura haters, Infiniti trolls, snobs, etc.

Why are questions like this asked if the answers given are ridiculed. Many (and I repeat many) knowledgable, competant, open-minded, affluent, luxury performance sedan enthusiast, etc seriously considered the RL and chose something else. A few owners on this board chose to sell thier RLs after a short ownership period. Not all cars can fit every owner/driver.

But IF Honda/Acura wants to sell more RLs (remember the thread topic question?) THEN they will make what most Luxury Performance Sedan (LPS) enthusiasts want. Edmunds has a great LPS thread; spend some time reading thru this past year's posts. Remember the adage: If You Build It They Will Come.

RE: the thread topic question: The RL clearly appeals to a minority; if Acura is content with that then great - they needn't do anything. If they want to increase the appeal and thus increase sales then clearly the shortcomings addressed by those who chose NOT to buy must be addressed.

 

ROFL.
Anyway, I'm a soon to be Acura owner but I have no problems admitting when another car is better than mine.

 

Hey everyone, here's a link to a report with all car sales for Jan 06. Some very interesting figures!!! Especially the similarity in sales of the Q45 and VW Phaeton.

http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA445423.PDF

 

To make matters worse take a look at the new Volvo S80 at volvocars.com. I never thought I would see the day a Volvo would have more interesting specifications on a VOLVO than an Acura. V-8, AWD, 6-speed automatic transmision. Acura please get with it!

 

I agree, but the volvo with the V8 will undoubtedly be well into the 60s in terms of price once options are added. Most buyers will probably settle for the V6, which will probably be slower than the RL.

Still, it does beg the question of why Acura won't develop a v8 version of the RL that blows everthing away. Simply putting a 350 horsepower with 300+ torque in that frame would clearly lead to 0-60 times under 6 seconds (Still, Honda must have felt that the cost would be too high to develop such an engine right now). With a V8, people would be singing praises. An interesting observation is that, aside from CR, most professional car reviews I read liked the RL and rated it higher than most consumers have rated it with their purchasing.

 

People would be happy if Honda developed a V8 but would they actually buy it? If people are complaining about the cost of a V6 Acura RL, imagine what they would say about a V8?

 

It would not be cheap, at least 6-10K more than the current RL....

 

I don't think the general public associates Acura with expensive cars and might not respond well to an Acura with a base price over $50K. In fact, I don't think the general public responds well to an Acura over $40K, regardless of how wonderful it is. As a result, I don't know if it is even worth it for a true flagship with a V8 or V10 engine to exist.

 

Remember that Volvo bowed to pressure for it's XC90 not having a V8. Only Turbo I5 and I6. So instead of developing an all new V8 (developement cost would be immense) they shopped around and found that wonderful 4.4L V8 sitting in Yamaha's parts bin. That's the same engine Volvo's going to shoehorn into the next gen Volvo S80.

Maybe Acura should take the hint from Volvo and shop around for a descent V8 that will fit in the RL if they don't want to carry the developement cost of a new V8. After all, it wont be the first time manufacturers sell engines to other manufacturers. Doesn't the Saturn Vue have a Honda V6 in it??

 

Maybe the cost of developing a V8 could be better spent on building the brand?

 

I agree. Having happy consumers is only important if they actually consume.

 

actually, i think that they think the cost of developing a v8 is better spent developing jet engines and robots.

This doesn't reallly help it's car image...as no other manufacturer with an image had to build a robot or jet engine to get to where they were.

 

Jets and robots may not help those wishing that Acura built a larger vehicle or V8, etc. but it may ba a lot of help to the overall bottom line of the company (not just the car portion).

 

Acura's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that the general population sees it as a "near-luxury" brand instead of a luxury brand. Every complaint I've heard about the RL (too small, not enough power) can be applied to the Lexus GS, yet it sells far better than the RL. That is the power of brand recognition. The simple fact is, people who acquire cars costing over $40K want the whole world to know the cars are expensive. That's why they are willing to drive defective Mercedes E classes or Lexus GS's that rarely win auto comparisons. The Lexus LS can look like a Toyota Avalon and people will still buy it because it is a Lexus. A Lexus GS can be the same size as the ES and people will still buy it because it is a Lexus. Image is what most folks care about. They don't know the difference between FWD, AWD, or RWD. They don't care about torque. They don't care about how long it takes to get the car from 0 to 60. They care about brand and the image it conveys. That's what's hurting the RL. It isn't that the RL is too small per se, or that it vague resembles the rest of the Honda family. It's that Acura is known as a near-luxury brand that gives you more stuff for less money than the competition, not huge prestige. The problem is that once you get past $40K, people care less about features per dollar and care more about image. That's not fair to the RL (or the VW Phaeton, for that matter), but that's yet another example of how: 1) life is grossly unfair, 2) people are sheep.

Follow the crowd and get the status, or follow yourself and be alone. That's your choice.

 

Well said. So, for those of us who bought the RL, we're in a small group of people who ignored the 'buying for status' crowd and bought what we felt was the best deal and best car for US. Finally, all of the cars we're talking about are very fine cars. You can't really go wrong with any of them. So, you choose what makes you happy and go with it.

 

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The RL has usually done very well (not always of course) when professionals review it. But they review it without bias regarding brand image (usually). The ones that love to compare it to an accord probably are hinting at the brand image thing

 

On Long Island, our newspaper is Newsday and had a half page writeup about Acura. I'm going to just put down some items that was told. Dick Colliver, VP of American Honda "We're not on all the shopping lists we'd like to be." In 2007 Acura will open a design studio just for the Acura cars.

In a marketing research paper, Acura's TL was cross-shopped with the Accord more than any other model the past year. Colliver would like to see that be Infiniti or Lexus. Too much overlap between Honda and Acura. The new studio's designers will create not only Acura products but will also work with the ad agency and Acura product planners so that everyone is in sync on where the brand needs to go.

He wants to position Acura as a luxury brand with unique technology and performance. "We're not chasing Lexus, it is not our intent to be everything to everybody".

Also that the company has no plans to offer a v-8 enging but is leaning toward all-wheel drive.

The NSX will be powered by a 10-cylinder engine and will give us an opportunity to expand with the 10-cylinder.

So it looks like change is coming down the line.

 

Is there a link to that article?

 

No, sorry.

 

What a lot of people have to realize is when looking at these numbers they include some models like the GS300 that starts in the low 40's as well as the M35 which increases the number of people that can afford these vehichles. Where as the RL has a starting price of $49,000.

 

OK, the superbowl is starting but here is a point you made me think of. The RL "Starting price" is its "Ending price" as well, because all options are included. How many people really purchase a stripped LPS if they are going to spend 45ish on a car? Perhaps Lexus and Infiniti get consumers into showrooms, because people read or hear that the cars start in the low 40s. Of course, once reasonable options are added those cars get very close to the price of an RL (and sometimes are more than the RL). Perhaps Acura simply does not encourage buyers to come into their showrooms, because their cars look expensive relative to the competition. In reality Acura cars are usually great values once one considers the kind of options luxury sedan buyers want. Clearly Acura needs better marketing and advertising to pass information on to potential buyers.

 

If Acura wants to improve its brand image, it has to drop the RSX.
Every other RSX is riced out and driven by a teenager. Slap a H on it and call it a Prelude.

I don't know how much it contributed to the revival of Infiniti but things did turn around when the G20 (which Sentra based, actually a JDM Primera) transformed to the G35 (not economy car based).

 

Rumor has it that this is the last model year for the RSX.

 

As much as I love the previous 5 Series BMW ( a buddy of mine has the 540 6-speed with the M bodywork and if I still lived in AZ I would have bought a used one), after driving the current version I ran screaming back to Lexus, Infiniti and Acura for test drives. Much has been said already about the unfortunate styling, absurdly complex and arrogantly insipid iDrive system, cheaper interior materials and cold design of the current 5 Series models - but when I drove it the steering and handling also seemed to suffer with the latest itineration. But throw that blue and white propeller logo on a 2006 RL and the automotive press would declare it a gift from the Gods themselves.

Lemmings...

 

Acura is an American brand of Honda and everybody knows it. It is really a Honda Legend. A Lexus is a Lexus everywhere in the world and people associate the reliability with Toyota but the car itself is a Lexus. For Acura to succeed they should distance themselves from Honda and make the brand world famous. The same car should not be re-badged, dealers should not be shared and then people would compare an Acura to a BMW all over the world instead of just the USA.

 

All the 'Acura Legend' drivers were slapped in the face in 1996 when the Legend became the RL in the USA. Bland styling replaced the best looking and performing Asian luxury car of that time. The RL has suffered from buyer loyality and may never recover. The present RL is a great car. But its price puts it up against alot of other great cars, and one of it competition is its little brother, TL. For the price, it needs 350 hp.