Which washer fluid do you guys use?
06-06-2007, 04:48 PM
#2
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
I just use regular old washer fluid, but since the dealer tops it off everytime I go in for maintenance, I hardly ever have to put any in. With the exception of the winter when you go through more of the stuff.
06-06-2007, 05:32 PM
#3
One of my biggest peeves with the RL is the fact that the washer fluid resevoir holds about 1/2 a gallon... it's just too small.
I like the Rain-x stuff, it cleans well and refreshes the rain-x on my windows every time I use it.
I like the Rain-x stuff, it cleans well and refreshes the rain-x on my windows every time I use it.
06-07-2007, 03:49 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by amcl
Do you pour it in the reservoir undiluted?
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06-07-2007, 04:24 PM
#8
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
I use RainX. They make a solution that you add as an additive to water. I find RainX also helps wih washing off the bug guts in our twice yearly love bug swarms (just ending again). The bug remains seem to wash off easier.
I am usure about the anti-freezing capabilities. The glaciers have not reached Florida in a very long time.
I am usure about the anti-freezing capabilities. The glaciers have not reached Florida in a very long time.
06-08-2007, 04:23 AM
#9
There's 2 kinds of rain-x stuff, one's a pre-diluted fill for your washer tank, the other is an additive that you add a capful to cheap washer fluid.
I've used both, and I think the pre-diluted stuff works better.
I've used both, and I think the pre-diluted stuff works better.
06-08-2007, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lumpulus
My G/F is a chemist, so she makes ours using DI water ad her own secret formula. 
06-08-2007, 05:17 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by lumpulus
My G/F is a chemist, so she makes ours using DI water ad her own secret formula.
Here is one of the formula to how make windshiel washer fluid.
Windshield Washer Fluid
Author/Submitted by: Cheaper and Better, Shared by Sherilyn Schamber
Servings: 1
Categories: Household / Information
Ingredients:
3 cups Isopropyl alcohol
1 tablespoon Liquid detergent or SOFT SOAP
10 cups Water
Directions:
1. Pour alcohol and detergent into a clean gallon size plastic jug. Add water, cover, and shake well. Label. Cap tightly. Keep out of the reach of children.
2. To Use: Shake well. Pour into your car's windshield-washer compartment.
3. Variation from More Make Your Own Groceries: 3 c rubbing alcohol 4 c water Several drops blue food coloring 2 teaspoon liquid dishwashing detergent.
You can replace water with D.I water. or isopropyl alcohol with methanol.
It is cheaper to buy one already made . Wait for on sale 99 cent/gallon windshield washer fluid
06-08-2007, 05:41 PM
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rain-x
rain-x is nice but it may be harmful to your wipers. Using rain-x leaves a waxy residue on your windshield invisible to our naked eyes and you may experience squeaking sound when the wipers start skipping as it glides on the windshield. The increase of friction between the windshield and the rubber will gradually deform the blades... which means you would have to replace your wipers sooner.
But I heard if the application of rain-x is properly maintained... you shouldn't have any problem.
But I heard if the application of rain-x is properly maintained... you shouldn't have any problem.
06-08-2007, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jianster
rain-x is nice but it may be harmful to your wipers. Using rain-x leaves a waxy residue on your windshield invisible to our naked eyes and you may experience squeaking sound when the wipers start skipping as it glides on the windshield. The increase of friction between the windshield and the rubber will gradually deform the blades... which means you would have to replace your wipers sooner.
But I heard if the application of rain-x is properly maintained... you shouldn't have any problem.
But I heard if the application of rain-x is properly maintained... you shouldn't have any problem.
06-09-2007, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AsianTL
Fluid contents Methanol or Isopropyl alsohol will deteriorate the rubber quicker.
06-09-2007, 06:27 AM
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Any windshield washer fluid will work fine.
C/P:
why the heck would you want the best washer fluid? Use regular washer fluid that you can find at reputable parts stores and general merchandise stores. Should cost around $1.25 for a winter formula. Spring formulas should be a little cheaper.
If you have problems with bugs in the summer, use a washer fluid that was made for that. Other than that, you shouldn't have problems with the washer fluid. If you have a problem in the winter, it's probably because you didn't turn the defroster or heater on correctly. You need to experiment in the winter to get it right.
why the heck would you want the best washer fluid? Use regular washer fluid that you can find at reputable parts stores and general merchandise stores. Should cost around $1.25 for a winter formula. Spring formulas should be a little cheaper.
If you have problems with bugs in the summer, use a washer fluid that was made for that. Other than that, you shouldn't have problems with the washer fluid. If you have a problem in the winter, it's probably because you didn't turn the defroster or heater on correctly. You need to experiment in the winter to get it right.
06-09-2007, 11:10 AM
#19
Taken from motorweek:
"You can also make your blades last longer if you clean them every couple months or so using an alcohol swab. Simply take the swab out of the package and run it along the edge of the blade. You'll be amazed at what comes off!
That helps keep them cleaning properly and does make them last longer..."
"You can also make your blades last longer if you clean them every couple months or so using an alcohol swab. Simply take the swab out of the package and run it along the edge of the blade. You'll be amazed at what comes off!
That helps keep them cleaning properly and does make them last longer..."
06-11-2007, 09:42 PM
#21
Originally Posted by amcl
Knowing some chemistry, de-ionized (DI) water can be very corrosive even on metals such as copper, steel, etc unless whatever you're adding to it contains salts. Beware. Usage of just reverse osmosis (RO) water should be fine.
Water is a polar solvent thus its a very good solvent for polar or ionic substances, however most grime is organic in nature and is best dissolved in organic solvents. Detergents and soaps, are esters that have both ionic and and organic sides to the molecule thus help water remove subtances it wouldn't otherwise disolve. Organic chemistry 101, no particular magic involved.
Washer fluids usually add an alcohol to the water detergent solution to lower its freezing point. Rain X is a hydrophobic substance which is soluble in and alcohol that has very adhesive properties to glass. By itself its not a particularly good cleaner but once it coats the glass it prevents water and other polar subtances from adhering to the glass, as most of you have discovered bugs stick to it just fine. I tried the rain X washer fluid and found it distincly inferior in cleaning ability to the plain ol blue stuff. I do however use rain X the old fashion way.
Hope the chemistry class is of help.
06-12-2007, 03:25 AM
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Doing a quick search on google brings up information such as:
"Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive. Called the "universal solvent," DI water is one of the most aggressive solvents known. In fact, to a varying degree, it will dissolve everything to which it is exposed." Reference
Additional links:
http://www.hghouston.com/Technical%20FAQs/TFAQ021.html
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=4733651
BTW, deionized water is NOT soft water nor is it the "softest" water. Soft water is, by definition, water that is devoid of divalent cations (not simply devoid of ALL ions as you so describe). For example, in water softeners, divalent ions such as Ca+2, Mg+2 or Fe+2 are replaced with a monovalent most usually Na+ or K+. In a nutshell, if you use pure DI water, or DI water in an unbuffered state, it will leach and corrode to a varying degree depending on how much of it you use. This is not to say that soft water is off the hook either, since it causes galvanic corrosion, especially if the salt content is high.
Regarding RainX, to be more specific, it contains petroleum distillates (a rubber solvent) in methanol. I believe care should be taken to dilute it properly per the instructions when using the concentrate additive packets or bottles in your reservoir.
"Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive. Called the "universal solvent," DI water is one of the most aggressive solvents known. In fact, to a varying degree, it will dissolve everything to which it is exposed." Reference
Additional links:
http://www.hghouston.com/Technical%20FAQs/TFAQ021.html
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=4733651
BTW, deionized water is NOT soft water nor is it the "softest" water. Soft water is, by definition, water that is devoid of divalent cations (not simply devoid of ALL ions as you so describe). For example, in water softeners, divalent ions such as Ca+2, Mg+2 or Fe+2 are replaced with a monovalent most usually Na+ or K+. In a nutshell, if you use pure DI water, or DI water in an unbuffered state, it will leach and corrode to a varying degree depending on how much of it you use. This is not to say that soft water is off the hook either, since it causes galvanic corrosion, especially if the salt content is high.
Regarding RainX, to be more specific, it contains petroleum distillates (a rubber solvent) in methanol. I believe care should be taken to dilute it properly per the instructions when using the concentrate additive packets or bottles in your reservoir.
Originally Posted by RL06tech
Completely incorrect, deionized water is simply that water, any other ionic solute in it acts as a catalyst and thus accelerates corrosion. Simple comparison, fresh water vs salt water, salt water is orders of magnitude more corrosive. Deionized water is the "softest" water thus it evaporates with the least amount of residue, however, its not the best cleaner since it does not dissolve organic substances very well, that's why you need some type of detergent added to it.
Water is a polar solvent thus its a very good solvent for polar or ionic substances, however most grime is organic in nature and is best dissolved in organic solvents. Detergents and soaps, are esters that have both ionic and and organic sides to the molecule thus help water remove subtances it wouldn't otherwise disolve. Organic chemistry 101, no particular magic involved.
Washer fluids usually add an alcohol to the water detergent solution to lower its freezing point. Rain X is a hydrophobic substance which is soluble in and alcohol that has very adhesive properties to glass. By itself its not a particularly good cleaner but once it coats the glass it prevents water and other polar subtances from adhering to the glass, as most of you have discovered bugs stick to it just fine. I tried the rain X washer fluid and found it distincly inferior in cleaning ability to the plain ol blue stuff. I do however use rain X the old fashion way.
Hope the chemistry class is of help.
Water is a polar solvent thus its a very good solvent for polar or ionic substances, however most grime is organic in nature and is best dissolved in organic solvents. Detergents and soaps, are esters that have both ionic and and organic sides to the molecule thus help water remove subtances it wouldn't otherwise disolve. Organic chemistry 101, no particular magic involved.
Washer fluids usually add an alcohol to the water detergent solution to lower its freezing point. Rain X is a hydrophobic substance which is soluble in and alcohol that has very adhesive properties to glass. By itself its not a particularly good cleaner but once it coats the glass it prevents water and other polar subtances from adhering to the glass, as most of you have discovered bugs stick to it just fine. I tried the rain X washer fluid and found it distincly inferior in cleaning ability to the plain ol blue stuff. I do however use rain X the old fashion way.
Hope the chemistry class is of help.
06-12-2007, 02:00 PM
#25
[QUOTE=amcl]Doing a quick search on google brings up information such as:
"Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive. Called the "universal solvent," DI water is one of the most aggressive solvents known. In fact, to a varying degree, it will dissolve everything to which it is exposed." Reference
Additional links:
http://www.hghouston.com/Technical%20FAQs/TFAQ021.html
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=4733651
Correct information but incorrect conclusion! Yes, hardness is due to divalent ions but monovalent ions such as NACl also make the water hard but at much higher concentrations. Again sea water is the best example, ever tried to take a bath in the ocean? Yes, deionized water is the perfect solvent but its not its ability to dissolve ionic salts that causes corrosion, its the electron transfer potential that does that. H2O is polar in nature but enhaced thosandfold by the addition of salts of any type, yes water corrodes but adding any free ions, specifically ionic hydrogen is the real problem that is why acids increase water's corrosion potential a orders of magnitude over plain H20, ITS THE ELECTRONS MAN!
"Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive. Called the "universal solvent," DI water is one of the most aggressive solvents known. In fact, to a varying degree, it will dissolve everything to which it is exposed." Reference
Additional links:
http://www.hghouston.com/Technical%20FAQs/TFAQ021.html
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=4733651
Correct information but incorrect conclusion! Yes, hardness is due to divalent ions but monovalent ions such as NACl also make the water hard but at much higher concentrations. Again sea water is the best example, ever tried to take a bath in the ocean? Yes, deionized water is the perfect solvent but its not its ability to dissolve ionic salts that causes corrosion, its the electron transfer potential that does that. H2O is polar in nature but enhaced thosandfold by the addition of salts of any type, yes water corrodes but adding any free ions, specifically ionic hydrogen is the real problem that is why acids increase water's corrosion potential a orders of magnitude over plain H20, ITS THE ELECTRONS MAN!
06-12-2007, 07:42 PM
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Dude stop spewing jargon. This comes down to me saying DI water is corrosive. And it IS as i have shown with references but you said it was "incorrect", lol. The mechanism of it's corrosiveness wasn't even in question since you shot the whole thing down in your first reply.
Lemme give you an analogy here:
The lack of any dissolved ions in water is like creating a vacuum of space; it will try to equalize itself by dissolving most things it comes in contact with. For example, chlorine gas is corrosive but if you take out ALL the gas in a reservoir, thus creating a vacuum, it wouldn't make it safer as it will implode a non-reinforced reservoir.
Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said to add free hydrogen ions to DI water to make it safe (i don't know why you're mentioning that "ionic hydrogen" is a problem). That would be retarded. Furthermore, i didn't say to add enough salt to turn it into sea water either. What i said was synomous to: If you're gonna remove chlorine gas from a container, replace it with plain air. Don't think that removing all the gas from the container is gonna prevent it from being damaged. Or in this case, if you're gonna use DI water, remineralize it reasonably so that it doesn't corrode or leach your reservoir!
Lastly, high concentrations of NACL in water will cause it to precipitate or cause "salt creep". But you're mistakenly using the converse of that to claim that NO NaCl will make water "softer". We call water "soft" when hard minerals such as Magnesium (Mg+2) and/or Calcium (Ca+2) are displaced by Sodium (Na+), as sodium ions do not build up on pipes as lime or interfere with detergents and soaps.(Reference) So why would you talk about how bad it is when NaCl is at a high concentration or that sea water is corrosive?!@#? What are you arguing here? It's like someone is thirsty so i recommend that they drink some water. Then you come along and say INCORRECT! drink too much water and it'll kill you. Lol, give it a rest, fellow acuraziner.
[QUOTE=RL06tech]
Lemme give you an analogy here:
The lack of any dissolved ions in water is like creating a vacuum of space; it will try to equalize itself by dissolving most things it comes in contact with. For example, chlorine gas is corrosive but if you take out ALL the gas in a reservoir, thus creating a vacuum, it wouldn't make it safer as it will implode a non-reinforced reservoir.
Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said to add free hydrogen ions to DI water to make it safe (i don't know why you're mentioning that "ionic hydrogen" is a problem). That would be retarded. Furthermore, i didn't say to add enough salt to turn it into sea water either. What i said was synomous to: If you're gonna remove chlorine gas from a container, replace it with plain air. Don't think that removing all the gas from the container is gonna prevent it from being damaged. Or in this case, if you're gonna use DI water, remineralize it reasonably so that it doesn't corrode or leach your reservoir!
Lastly, high concentrations of NACL in water will cause it to precipitate or cause "salt creep". But you're mistakenly using the converse of that to claim that NO NaCl will make water "softer". We call water "soft" when hard minerals such as Magnesium (Mg+2) and/or Calcium (Ca+2) are displaced by Sodium (Na+), as sodium ions do not build up on pipes as lime or interfere with detergents and soaps.(Reference) So why would you talk about how bad it is when NaCl is at a high concentration or that sea water is corrosive?!@#? What are you arguing here? It's like someone is thirsty so i recommend that they drink some water. Then you come along and say INCORRECT! drink too much water and it'll kill you. Lol, give it a rest, fellow acuraziner.
[QUOTE=RL06tech]
Originally Posted by amcl
Doing a quick search on google brings up information such as:
"Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive. Called the "universal solvent," DI water is one of the most aggressive solvents known. In fact, to a varying degree, it will dissolve everything to which it is exposed." Reference
Additional links:
http://www.hghouston.com/Technical%20FAQs/TFAQ021.html
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=4733651
Correct information but incorrect conclusion! Yes, hardness is due to divalent ions but monovalent ions such as NACl also make the water hard but at much higher concentrations. Again sea water is the best example, ever tried to take a bath in the ocean? Yes, deionized water is the perfect solvent but its not its ability to dissolve ionic salts that causes corrosion, its the electron transfer potential that does that. H2O is polar in nature but enhaced thosandfold by the addition of salts of any type, yes water corrodes but adding any free ions, specifically ionic hydrogen is the real problem that is why acids increase water's corrosion potential a orders of magnitude over plain H20, ITS THE ELECTRONS MAN!
"Care must be exercised when using DI water. The very lack of ions also makes this coolant unusually corrosive. Called the "universal solvent," DI water is one of the most aggressive solvents known. In fact, to a varying degree, it will dissolve everything to which it is exposed." Reference
Additional links:
http://www.hghouston.com/Technical%20FAQs/TFAQ021.html
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=4733651
Correct information but incorrect conclusion! Yes, hardness is due to divalent ions but monovalent ions such as NACl also make the water hard but at much higher concentrations. Again sea water is the best example, ever tried to take a bath in the ocean? Yes, deionized water is the perfect solvent but its not its ability to dissolve ionic salts that causes corrosion, its the electron transfer potential that does that. H2O is polar in nature but enhaced thosandfold by the addition of salts of any type, yes water corrodes but adding any free ions, specifically ionic hydrogen is the real problem that is why acids increase water's corrosion potential a orders of magnitude over plain H20, ITS THE ELECTRONS MAN!
06-13-2007, 09:02 AM
#27
Originally Posted by amcl
Dude stop spewing jargon. This comes down to me saying DI water is corrosive. And it IS as i have shown with references but you said it was "incorrect", lol. The mechanism of it's corrosiveness wasn't even in question since you shot the whole thing down in your first reply.
Lemme give you an analogy here:
The lack of any dissolved ions in water is like creating a vacuum of space; it will try to equalize itself by dissolving most things it comes in contact with. For example, chlorine gas is corrosive but if you take out ALL the gas in a reservoir, thus creating a vacuum, it wouldn't make it safer as it will implode a non-reinforced reservoir.
Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said to add free hydrogen ions to DI water to make it safe (i don't know why you're mentioning that "ionic hydrogen" is a problem). That would be retarded. Furthermore, i didn't say to add enough salt to turn it into sea water either. What i said was synomous to: If you're gonna remove chlorine gas from a container, replace it with plain air. Don't think that removing all the gas from the container is gonna prevent it from being damaged. Or in this case, if you're gonna use DI water, remineralize it reasonably so that it doesn't corrode or leach your reservoir!
Lastly, high concentrations of NACL in water will cause it to precipitate or cause "salt creep". But you're mistakenly using the converse of that to claim that NO NaCl will make water "softer". We call water "soft" when hard minerals such as Magnesium (Mg+2) and/or Calcium (Ca+2) are displaced by Sodium (Na+), as sodium ions do not build up on pipes as lime or interfere with detergents and soaps.(Reference) So why would you talk about how bad it is when NaCl is at a high concentration or that sea water is corrosive?!@#? What are you arguing here? It's like someone is thirsty so i recommend that they drink some water. Then you come along and say INCORRECT! drink too much water and it'll kill you. Lol, give it a rest, fellow acuraziner.
Lemme give you an analogy here:
The lack of any dissolved ions in water is like creating a vacuum of space; it will try to equalize itself by dissolving most things it comes in contact with. For example, chlorine gas is corrosive but if you take out ALL the gas in a reservoir, thus creating a vacuum, it wouldn't make it safer as it will implode a non-reinforced reservoir.
Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said to add free hydrogen ions to DI water to make it safe (i don't know why you're mentioning that "ionic hydrogen" is a problem). That would be retarded. Furthermore, i didn't say to add enough salt to turn it into sea water either. What i said was synomous to: If you're gonna remove chlorine gas from a container, replace it with plain air. Don't think that removing all the gas from the container is gonna prevent it from being damaged. Or in this case, if you're gonna use DI water, remineralize it reasonably so that it doesn't corrode or leach your reservoir!
Lastly, high concentrations of NACL in water will cause it to precipitate or cause "salt creep". But you're mistakenly using the converse of that to claim that NO NaCl will make water "softer". We call water "soft" when hard minerals such as Magnesium (Mg+2) and/or Calcium (Ca+2) are displaced by Sodium (Na+), as sodium ions do not build up on pipes as lime or interfere with detergents and soaps.(Reference) So why would you talk about how bad it is when NaCl is at a high concentration or that sea water is corrosive?!@#? What are you arguing here? It's like someone is thirsty so i recommend that they drink some water. Then you come along and say INCORRECT! drink too much water and it'll kill you. Lol, give it a rest, fellow acuraziner.
06-13-2007, 01:01 PM
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LOL, you've lost me. You're not making any sense. 
Just admit your 9th grade level chemistry has been schooled.
Originally Posted by RL06tech
I must insist have you ever tried to use soap in the ocean??????
06-14-2007, 12:14 PM
#29
Originally Posted by amcl
LOL, you've lost me. You're not making any sense. Just admit your 9th grade level chemistry has been schooled. Any salt will increase the polar nature of water and increase it corrosion ability, thus deoinized water is less corrosive. Anticorrosion agents such diethylene glycol not only increase the boliling temperature and lower the freezing temperature they also lower the polar equilibrium and thus the "Corrosibility" of water.
06-14-2007, 05:08 PM
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Here you are again attributing hardness to "saturated" solutions. Trace amounts of sodium in water due to ion exchange with hard water is below the threshold of salt precipitation. Furthermore, deionized water, when exposed to air will absorb carbon dioxide from air and form carbonic acid. And since DI water is so pure, it will NOT be able to buffer the acid, resulting in a pH of ~5.6 to 5.8. Get it yet? DI water is corrosive on many levels.
Also, let's school you some more on hard water: Calcium carbonate once precipitated and dried, as such in "scaling" or "water spots" (lime deposits), is much more resistant to dissolve when flushed with water than salt (NaCl) deposits. Why do you think they sell products like "Lime Away" or "CLR" for hard water deposits? According to you, there should be products such as "Salt Away". LOL. Lemme guess, is this why you keep on insisting that we "use soap in the ocean"?
Lastly, i would like to quote a scientific journal since all of your posts have been devoid of references and full of hot air...
Avoid Storing Purified Water:
High purity (deionized) water has a high affinity for chemicals in its surroundings. It can absorb chemicals readily from storage containers and pipes as well as chemical vapors from the laboratory air.
The polyethylene carboys and wash bottles commonly used to store water in laboratories can leach organic molecules into ultrapure water...
...Glass bottles also may leach inorganic compounds. Therefore, it is recommended to use ultrapure water immediately after production... Full Text
So... you're not just arguing against me, you're trying to refute pretty much the entire scientific community. I commend you for your boldness.
*Please note: Argue your point. Don't introduce anything that is irrelevant such as "anticorrosion agents, diethylene glycol". No one will think you're any smarter.
Also, let's school you some more on hard water: Calcium carbonate once precipitated and dried, as such in "scaling" or "water spots" (lime deposits), is much more resistant to dissolve when flushed with water than salt (NaCl) deposits. Why do you think they sell products like "Lime Away" or "CLR" for hard water deposits? According to you, there should be products such as "Salt Away". LOL. Lemme guess, is this why you keep on insisting that we "use soap in the ocean"?
Lastly, i would like to quote a scientific journal since all of your posts have been devoid of references and full of hot air...
Avoid Storing Purified Water:
High purity (deionized) water has a high affinity for chemicals in its surroundings. It can absorb chemicals readily from storage containers and pipes as well as chemical vapors from the laboratory air.
The polyethylene carboys and wash bottles commonly used to store water in laboratories can leach organic molecules into ultrapure water...
...Glass bottles also may leach inorganic compounds. Therefore, it is recommended to use ultrapure water immediately after production... Full Text
So... you're not just arguing against me, you're trying to refute pretty much the entire scientific community. I commend you for your boldness.
*Please note: Argue your point. Don't introduce anything that is irrelevant such as "anticorrosion agents, diethylene glycol". No one will think you're any smarter.
Originally Posted by RL06tech
The point is simple although hardness is something we associate with calcium, rust or other divalent ions in fresh water, its actually a characteristic of any saturated "salt" solution. H20 carrying capacity is lower for calcium carbonate than for NACL thus it precipitates at a lower concentration, in all truth hardness is not a "chemical" term at all! Any ionic solute will "harden" water as it approaches its saturation level. Any salt will increase the polar nature of water and increase it corrosion ability, thus deoinized water is less corrosive. Anticorrosion agents such diethylene glycol not only increase the boliling temperature and lower the freezing temperature they also lower the polar equilibrium and thus the "Corrosibility" of water.
Any salt will increase the polar nature of water and increase it corrosion ability, thus deoinized water is less corrosive. Anticorrosion agents such diethylene glycol not only increase the boliling temperature and lower the freezing temperature they also lower the polar equilibrium and thus the "Corrosibility" of water.
06-14-2007, 05:46 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
My washer fluid is the unused portion of the inevitable half-drunk bottled water that my kids leave in the other car. Plus whatever else is in the tank. Eventually it will be a reservior full of semi-pure bottled water.
Sometimes I see some undissolved solids in the bottle.
Rob144
Sometimes I see some undissolved solids in the bottle.
Rob144
06-14-2007, 08:48 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by RL06tech
... in all truth hardness is not a "chemical" term at all!...
0 - 4 dH, 0 - 70 ppm : very soft
4 - 8 dH, 70 - 140 ppm : soft
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
12 - 18 dH, 210 - 320 ppm : fairly hard
18 - 30 dH, 320 - 530 ppm : hard
And here is the definition:
Hardness (water) - a measure of the amount of dissolved calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) in water. Hardness is often reported as ppm or milligrams per liter (mg/l) of CaCO3. If hardness is reported in grains per gallon, one grain per gallon of hardness equals 17.1 ppm of hardness as CaCO3. Hard water can produce scale deposits in pipes and water heaters. Additionally, compared to soft water, hard water requires that additional soaps and detergents be used to produce foam or lather. Hardness scale: Soft - 0-60 mg/l; Moderately Hard - 61-120 mg/l; Hard - 121-180 mg/l; and Very Hard- over 180 mg/l. Reference
Schooled again...
06-14-2007, 10:59 PM
#35
Originally Posted by amcl
Here you are again attributing hardness to "saturated" solutions. Trace amounts of sodium in water due to ion exchange with hard water is below the threshold of salt precipitation. Furthermore, deionized water, when exposed to air will absorb carbon dioxide from air and form carbonic acid. And since DI water is so pure, it will NOT be able to buffer the acid, resulting in a pH of ~5.6 to 5.8. Get it yet? DI water is corrosive on many levels.
Also, let's school you some more on hard water: Calcium carbonate once precipitated and dried, as such in "scaling" or "water spots" (lime deposits), is much more resistant to dissolve when flushed with water than salt (NaCl) deposits. Why do you think they sell products like "Lime Away" or "CLR" for hard water deposits? According to you, there should be products such as "Salt Away". LOL. Lemme guess, is this why you keep on insisting that we "use soap in the ocean"?
Lastly, i would like to quote a scientific journal since all of your posts have been devoid of references and full of hot air...
Avoid Storing Purified Water:
High purity (deionized) water has a high affinity for chemicals in its surroundings. It can absorb chemicals readily from storage containers and pipes as well as chemical vapors from the laboratory air.
The polyethylene carboys and wash bottles commonly used to store water in laboratories can leach organic molecules into ultrapure water...
...Glass bottles also may leach inorganic compounds. Therefore, it is recommended to use ultrapure water immediately after production... Full Text
So... you're not just arguing against me, you're trying to refute pretty much the entire scientific community. I commend you for your boldness.
*Please note: Argue your point. Don't introduce anything that is irrelevant such as "anticorrosion agents, diethylene glycol". No one will think you're any smarter.
Also, let's school you some more on hard water: Calcium carbonate once precipitated and dried, as such in "scaling" or "water spots" (lime deposits), is much more resistant to dissolve when flushed with water than salt (NaCl) deposits. Why do you think they sell products like "Lime Away" or "CLR" for hard water deposits? According to you, there should be products such as "Salt Away". LOL. Lemme guess, is this why you keep on insisting that we "use soap in the ocean"?
Lastly, i would like to quote a scientific journal since all of your posts have been devoid of references and full of hot air...
Avoid Storing Purified Water:
High purity (deionized) water has a high affinity for chemicals in its surroundings. It can absorb chemicals readily from storage containers and pipes as well as chemical vapors from the laboratory air.
The polyethylene carboys and wash bottles commonly used to store water in laboratories can leach organic molecules into ultrapure water...
...Glass bottles also may leach inorganic compounds. Therefore, it is recommended to use ultrapure water immediately after production... Full Text
So... you're not just arguing against me, you're trying to refute pretty much the entire scientific community. I commend you for your boldness.
*Please note: Argue your point. Don't introduce anything that is irrelevant such as "anticorrosion agents, diethylene glycol". No one will think you're any smarter.
06-14-2007, 11:26 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by RL06tech
Here we go again what is funny is the "density" of the discussioneers. No one is arguing that deionized water is a super solvent (but only for polar substances) we have established that, the argument is whether its more [B]corrosive [/B] (better at facilitating electron transfer, in our example between iron and oxygen) than water with a dissolved salt! The answer is no, deionized water is a poorer medium for electron transfer than water with dissolved ions. Comprende? or is the density still fogging the understanding????? What is becomming apparent is that you keep pasting arguments that have nothing germane to contribute to water's "corrositivity" which shows an almost bushlike ability to read but not understand the issue
06-14-2007, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RL06tech
Here we go again what is funny is the "density" of the discussioneers. No one is arguing that deionized water is a super solvent (but only for polar substances) we have established that, the argument is whether its more [B]corrosive [/B] (better at facilitating electron transfer, in our example between iron and oxygen) than water with a dissolved salt! The answer is no, deionized water is a poorer medium for electron transfer than water with dissolved ions. Comprende? or is the density still fogging the understanding????? What is becomming apparent is that you keep pasting arguments that have nothing germane to contribute to water's "corrositivity" which shows an almost bushlike ability to read but not understand the issue
In fact, you keep on pushing sea water as being corrosive. That has nothing to do with soft water. It's like you're saying that citric acid is as corrosive as hydrochloric acid.
READ and STUDY what i wrote. Then once you've learned the material. Come back here and form a cohesive argument.
06-14-2007, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RL06tech
...you keep pasting arguments that have nothing germane to contribute to water's "corrositivity"...
Originally Posted by RL06tech
... in all truth hardness is not a "chemical" term at all!...
06-15-2007, 09:31 AM
#40
Originally Posted by amcl
I posted about GH and KH because you claimed that water "hardness" was not a "chemical term". (see below)
In fact it IS a chemical term, and i've listed the references. Since you're not addressing this issue, i take it that you admit you are wrong. I recommend that you restrict what you say and think more carefully next time, preferably with references so that you're not putting your foot in your mouth. You're stating more and more things that are completely untrue, unfounded, and undocumented. Shame on you.
In fact it IS a chemical term, and i've listed the references. Since you're not addressing this issue, i take it that you admit you are wrong. I recommend that you restrict what you say and think more carefully next time, preferably with references so that you're not putting your foot in your mouth. You're stating more and more things that are completely untrue, unfounded, and undocumented. Shame on you.