rlerman

At rpms under 1600, usually around 45-49 miles/hour, I get what sounds like wind noise, flutter or some kind of faint grinding when slowly tap the throttle. There isn't much power there either. It will do it in other gears at the low rpms, but it's harder to duplicate. Then when cruising around 50-55 mph, if I tap the throttle, there is a high pitched faint whine. I've already had my prop shaft bearing replaced so that's not it.

Any thoughts?

Going in to the dealer on Wed (under extended warranty), doing brake recall at the same time.

dwboston

The first issue sounds like the lock-up torque converter to me. If so that's "normal". I have the faint whine when tapping the throttle (usually between 70-75 mph) as well. It's been discussed here many times, but it seems to be an operating characteristic of the SH-AWD system. AFAIK, no solution has ever been found.

stevesrl

First issue, do a 3x3 transmission flush. This solved my problem that was the same as yours.

Second, has been said by service manager that it is a resonating transmission shift cable. Have not changed yet because I can live with it. Part cost approximately $175.

dwboston

The new shift cable doesn't solve the whine. I had an 05 RL and that's the first thing they tried back in 2007 (my car was apparently a test case for the Acura Tech Line). They also swapped out the transfer case and the transmission - the whine remained.

rlerman

Have car into the dealer. Seems it is related to the torque converter. They are trying a few things first, but it might need replacing. This issue is common on the MDX and is solved with updated software, but no such fix is available for the RL. They've been in touch with Acura tech line and are trying a few things before going down the road of replacement, including changing trans fluid. Seems the noise is not "normal" as some have been told. They've had the car all day and they still have the brake recall to do so won't see my car until tomorrow or Friday (or longer if new TC is needed.) I'll report back when it's fixed; driving TSX loaner. All covered under extended warranty. Very good dealer...no BS.

NJ06RL

Hey Rlerman, glad you're getting a good experience at the dealer. Which NJ dealer is this ?

rlerman

Precision in Princeton

rlerman

Update: Torque converter bad, to be replaced under extended warranty. Dealer needs approval from Acura given the cost of the repair, but dealership indicated it will be covered. TC will be ordered and replaced, probably next week. We'll see if this fixes the issue. Stay tuned...

rlerman

Update 2: Torque converter has been replaced and all I have to say is WOW! Any noise that this car made at any speed/rpm is now gone, completely! No more flutter at low rpms, no whining, nothing. Also, the car is much more responsive at lower speeds. That is, you step on the gas and the car goes, used to be a bit of a lag. Makes me wonder if all of the posts on this forum about such issues is all related to the TC.

Thumbs up to my dealer, Precision Acura in Princeton! No questions asked, no hesitation to fix it, nothing, great experience (as have all of them with this dealer) They had the car for 2 days, giving me a ZDX loaner (happy to have my RL back)

The bill for the car would have been almost $2300, including $1320 in parts (almost all for the TC). Extended Acuracare warranty covered it all.

One happy camper sitting here!!

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Great ending... congrats.

sleepinxlionhart

Question rlerman, for your first problem, the flutter/grinding noise, I know you said around 45mpg and 1600 rpm below, but did it occur every time you were at that speed and at that rpm? or was it randomly? And was the sound like only a second/extremely brief?

rlerman

The flutter noise happened every time and over a period of about a year got worse, it was easy to duplicate for the dealer to here. The higher pitch whine above 50 only recently started happening, but also started doing it with increased frequency and was easy to spot.

sleepinxlionhart

I've been noticing on mine that it occurs below 1500rpm, around 1400rpm, and it is most noticable when driven in the mornings. Also it seems to be happening when I slightly press on the gas, and I can see the tachometer stick sort of "fluttering" around 1400rpm when the noise occurs. Seems to occur mostly around 30mph in 4th gear. :/

rlerman

With the exception of the time of day (my did it all the time), that is exactly what my car did. It will get worse (louder, more frequent) so hopefully you are under warranty.

get your car into 5th gear at around 45 mph and let it drop down to 37-38, just before you are about to drop into 4th. The same thing should happen.

jedinyte120

just set up an appt for end of the month for the same issue. mine started last year and its seems worst. the grind/growl is a little louder. did your RPMs drop after you slowly accelerated? like it would try to accelerate and the RPM starts to go up, then after a second or two the RPM would drop on its own and make the sounds?
mine does it all the time like yours did.

lland

Had the torque converter in my '04 MDX replaced last year. They also replaced the engine mounts and did an alignment (said it was necessary with the converter replacement). All covered under AcuraCare.

LL

sleepinxlionhart

Thanks for the tip. I tried it, but there's nothing there at 5th, seems to be only happening around 4th for me, and even that, I'd say it only occurs maybe 60% of the time. Guess I'll wait til it gets worse. I got until Oct. 2012 until my warranty runs out I think. Do you happen to recall what mileage did the sound start for you and when I got progressively worse?

sleepinxlionhart

This is exactly what I'm getting too. What did the dealer do to solve the problem?

This is an interesting read too:
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/c-003-3x3-atf-change-transmission-shudder-4th-5th-%40-low-rpm-753017/

I personally hope it's just the tranny fluid problem because I'm paranoid of having things taken apart in the car.

BadMojo

I was exhibiting these same symptoms, I could reproduce it 100% by being in 5th gear around 45mph at low RPMs, a slight acceleration would cause RPM fluctuations and a grinding noise. Took it in to the dealer and the found that the torque converter was bad and needed to be replaced replaced. My RL is an '06 with 52K miles and the whole $2200 bill was covered by the power-train warranty.

Noise is gone and the car runs smoothly and actually accelerates better in 1st gear now!

Mojo

sleepinxlionhart

That's good to hear! I guess I'll have to go in sometime soon too. How long was your car at the dealers?

BadMojo

My car spent the night at the dealer and I got it back around lunch the next day but I had them replace the AFS ride height sensor and do the master cylinder recall as well.

Mojo

sleepinxlionhart

Sorry, one more question. When did you car start exhibiting the problem? And has it gone progressively worse over time? I want to get mine fixed asap, but I don't think I'll have time until around the end of May. So I'm hoping that it won't cause any long term damage if I don't fix it right away. I think I started to notice the problem around winter time/end of 2010. Mine's an '05 at 34K.

BadMojo

My issue didn't get any worse after noticing it around 45,000, I just got better at reproducing it. I think if you arrange a test drive with a tech and have them grab the converter ahead of your arrival, you would likely be able to get your car back on the same day.

Mojo

sleepinxlionhart

I see. Thanks for bearing with me w/ my questions . I'll see what I can do.

merlin the wrench

On this subject could someone tell me what their car does on this?

70 mph +/- steady for about 1 mile minimum then give it about 1/4 throttle more gas like you want to speed up a little but not enough to make it kick down to a lower gear. Does your RPM kick up like the TC unlocked or does it stay steady?

My RPM will kick up if it has unlocked in the last minute or two, or if I am below about 60, aroound town etc but above 70 the TC doesn't unlock unless you really give it some gas. This is true even when going up a small hill. If you give it enough gas to kickdown, the RPM will rise as the TC unlocks then the trans will kickdown. If you slow back down and let the TC lock up you will see the RPM fall. Then if you tap the throttle again for the next 20 or 30 seconds before it gets accustomed to say 70 it will unlock easily. Dealer tells me this is the normal behavior and I believe them however every other car I have ever owned with an auto will unlock as soon as you apply enough gas to tell the car you want to speed up.

sleepinxlionhart

So I'm at the dealers right now, waiting to get my car serviced and I brought up the issue. Turns out because today is a Saturday, it isn't a good time for them to do it. They said because the process takes a long time, test driving it, isolating the problem, calling Acura corporate about it(apparently Acura corporate is closed on Saturdays), etc..

I won't have time to leave it on a weekday until about 5 weeks from now...so I'll update you guys then, and hopefully I can get it fixed then.

sleepinxlionhart

So I went to the dealers yesterday to get it checked out....and waddaya know, the problem could not be reproduced. It is pretty sporadic...so I had a feeling that it might not be reproducible. They had their best tech ride with me, and what he said was that the car is really quiet, shifting and everything is normal compared to the other RLs he has tested. And that the "problem" that I've been experiencing is more like part of the design to save gas. Kind of like upshifting earlier when driving a manual. It does seem to me that it is shifting prematurely...too bad there's no ECU update like the MDX that someone on this forum stated. I guess the car isn't meant to be driven slowly, because then the problem will most likely never occur. Anyway, I still have a year more on my warranty, so I'll keep an eye out.

BadMojo

Since the torque converter only engages in 1st and 5th, the issue can be difficult to reproduce.

Here's what I found:

Put it in manual mode and shift up to 5th and stay around 45-ish MPH on flat terrain or a slight incline. Let off the gas until the car drops to 42 MPH and then very slightly press the gas pedal (lightly enough that if you weren't in manual mode it would not drop down a gear). At this point, I could observe some RPM fluctuation on the tachometer (bouncing between 1200 and 1500 revs), and there would be a slight grinding sound that could pass for wind noise.

Here's hoping that your RL doesn't have the issue!
-Mojo

sleepinxlionhart

That is EXACTLY what I have. I totally noticed that also. But at the streets around the dealers, I couldn't really do that because of the numerous traffic lights, and the lack of slight inclines. Damn...

slainte_0317

I am going to try Mojo's approach. It certainly sounds like the problems I have been having but in auto (although I have not noticed a grind noise, but the flutter). I've told the dealer this, but they cannot recreate it. Plus, some times, there is a noticable lag in slowly pressing the gas and actually feeling the tranny kick in. Almost like a dead zone. I've reported it twice, but if this is a good way to recreate it, I will definitely take it back to the dealer.

jbirch2000

Any body who is having this fluttering or whirling at low RPM's just do the 3x3 transmission fluid change and it will go away. Mine was purchased with 98k and had the transmission flutter at low RPM and was not responsive. I did the 3X3 tranny fluid change and it was night and day. I have driven the car for over 10k miles and the fluttering never came back

sleepinxlionhart

Cool, I'll have my mechanic do that instead of making trips to the dealer to have the problem be not reproducible. Because personally, I highly doubt the torque converter will fail so easily on these cars.

fatty

When was this done? Did they use the new tranny fluid or the old type? Do yo u have the part number on the receipt for the tranny fluid?

sleepinxlionhart

I am also curious about the type of transmission fluid that is used. I remember reading on here that dealers are using a new transmission fluid...

rlx015

I recently got RL and wonder whether transmission service was done in the past - I assume it was not so plan to do one just to be on the safe side. Now should I go for normal transmission service at the dealer or ask them to do 3x3? (I do not have fluttering, whining, etc noises - car runs fine).
Does anyone know if the dealer would do 3x3 fluid transmission service if they are just asked to do it? I think I read the post where Dealer denied 3x3 tranny fluid change per request from the customer ... Also, what would be the price for the service if the dealer wants to do it?

Sorry for all the questions - searching and reading many comments did not really specify these answers.

Thanks all!

sleepinxlionhart

Sorry, but I don't know if a dealer will do it for you, nor do I know it's price. But the steps in doing a 3x3 transmission flush is rather simple. I would totally do it myself if I had a hydraulic lift in my garage xD. Take a look at this tread for the process it entails:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=753017

pretty straight forward.

Chas2

They will, and it will cost between $200-300 if I recall. If you do it yourself, and drive the car, you won't have the issue of it not locking up the torque converter.

Here is some general info from the January 2008 Acura ServiceNews:

Check Out the Latest Word on A/T Flushing
Currently Applies To: General Information

Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1 (and no substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s not listed in the S/Ms and if you do an ISIS search, you’ll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they’re rather dated, and none of them say the same thing.
NOTE: The term “flushing” refers to repeatedly draining and refilling the trans with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Don’t confuse it with aftermarket flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you avoid using them on any Acura vehicle.

The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way.

In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So here’s the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:

1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
2. Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to ISIS
for details.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to 2,500 rpm.
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
• If the trans won’t shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shift from Drive to Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
5. Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter lockup.
6. Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero. Shift into Reverse and then into Neutral.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6 four more times.
8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6 two more times.
9. Drain the trans, and reinstall the drain plug with a new sealing washer.
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.

sleepinxlionhart

So I got the 3x3 done this morning. I have to say, the transmission shifts sooo nice now, and yep, I replaced it with the new ATF DW-1 fluid. I only drove it 12 miles home and everything feels good. I'll be super crushed if the problem persists....

Anyway, the techs only "drove" the car while it was on the lift, and I swear I feel like they didn't even hit 5th gear. I expressed by concerns to the head mechanic, and I really don't know if it made a difference.

Like I said in my previous post...I wished I had my own hydraulic lift so I can do it myself, haha..

sleepinxlionhart

Just a quick update after driving the car for a week. The problem hasn't manifested itself again (knock on wood). I tried duplicating it, and it never showed it's ugly face . I feel like the car moves better, like it "catches" and just goes, unlike before. Thank goodness it wasn't a TC issue *phew*.

BadMojo

Glad to hear the 3x3 worked for you!
Mojo