Tinted windows / legality issues
06-14-2006, 01:38 PM
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Tinted windows / legality issues
Back in January, I received a parking ticket, not for any parking violation, but for having tinted windows (here in Chicago). I have a valid medical excuse (photophobia after having LASIK done in 2000). The note is from my eye doctor, and I keep it in my car at all times. I've been pulled over once, in October 2005, for having tinted windows, but once I showed the officers the letter from my eye doctor, they let me go and said "as long as you've got that letter with you, you'll be fine, just show it along with your license."
So, I've never been pulled over since that one time, and obviously the parking ticket person can't see that I have that letter in my glovebox. I was also always under the impression that driving with tinted windows was a moving violation, not something you'd get a ticket for while parked. So, I went to the Chicago Department of Revenue (great name for where you pay/fight parking tickets) and requested a hearing. I submitted the ticket, along with a typed and signed letter, and a copy of the typed letter from my eye doctor (on his stationary).
Months pass. Just a week ago, I was issued ANOTHER ticket for the exact same violation (different neighborhood too) So now, last Friday, I just got a letter in the mail from the Chicago Department of Revenue stating that:
0976220B SMOKED/TINTED WINDOWS PARKED/STANDING
As a defense to this ticket you have asserted an excuse or reason which is not recognized. An Administrative Law Officer has reviewed all the evidence submitted, either in person or by mail, by the City of Chicago and you.
It is the finding of the Administrative Law Officer that you did not raise one of the permitted defenses to the violation as set forth in the ordinance.
Consequently, as the registered owner, you are responsible for the fine of $25.00
Additional Findings:
LETTER FROM RESPONDENT PHYSICIAN DOES NOT MEET STANDARDS OF PARAGRAPH (g) OF SEC. 12-503, ILL. VEHICLE CODE AS AMENDED.
If you do not pay the indicated fine within twenty-one (21) days of the date of this determination, a penalty equal to the fine will attach.
This order may be appealed to the Circuit Court of Cook County (Daley Center, 6th floor) within thirty-five days of the order date.
Well, I Googled that vehicle code, and here, on the state of Illinois' own website, is what I found:
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/de...ml#enforcement
From what I see there, my eye doctor's letter fits perfectly, and on top of that, a police officer who previously stopped me TOLD me my letter was valid back in October 2005. So how do I fight this again, and how go I end the cycle of having to find tickets that I shouldn't be getting?
Anyone have any insight? I really do appreciate the tinted windows, as my eyes are much more sensitive to light after the surgery. I wear sunglasses during the day as well, but the tinted windows make a big difference to me, even with sunglasses on. This whole thing is very frustrating.
Randy
So, I've never been pulled over since that one time, and obviously the parking ticket person can't see that I have that letter in my glovebox. I was also always under the impression that driving with tinted windows was a moving violation, not something you'd get a ticket for while parked. So, I went to the Chicago Department of Revenue (great name for where you pay/fight parking tickets) and requested a hearing. I submitted the ticket, along with a typed and signed letter, and a copy of the typed letter from my eye doctor (on his stationary).
Months pass. Just a week ago, I was issued ANOTHER ticket for the exact same violation (different neighborhood too) So now, last Friday, I just got a letter in the mail from the Chicago Department of Revenue stating that:
0976220B SMOKED/TINTED WINDOWS PARKED/STANDING
As a defense to this ticket you have asserted an excuse or reason which is not recognized. An Administrative Law Officer has reviewed all the evidence submitted, either in person or by mail, by the City of Chicago and you.
It is the finding of the Administrative Law Officer that you did not raise one of the permitted defenses to the violation as set forth in the ordinance.
Consequently, as the registered owner, you are responsible for the fine of $25.00
Additional Findings:
LETTER FROM RESPONDENT PHYSICIAN DOES NOT MEET STANDARDS OF PARAGRAPH (g) OF SEC. 12-503, ILL. VEHICLE CODE AS AMENDED.
If you do not pay the indicated fine within twenty-one (21) days of the date of this determination, a penalty equal to the fine will attach.
This order may be appealed to the Circuit Court of Cook County (Daley Center, 6th floor) within thirty-five days of the order date.
Well, I Googled that vehicle code, and here, on the state of Illinois' own website, is what I found:
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/de...ml#enforcement
From what I see there, my eye doctor's letter fits perfectly, and on top of that, a police officer who previously stopped me TOLD me my letter was valid back in October 2005. So how do I fight this again, and how go I end the cycle of having to find tickets that I shouldn't be getting?
Anyone have any insight? I really do appreciate the tinted windows, as my eyes are much more sensitive to light after the surgery. I wear sunglasses during the day as well, but the tinted windows make a big difference to me, even with sunglasses on. This whole thing is very frustrating.
Randy
06-14-2006, 01:45 PM
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Wow, that's retarded. Only thing I can suggest is to print out the info on that page and take it to city hall (or whever you go to handle fines) and show them it with the note.
It is downright asinine to fine someone for having tint on their windows especially if the car is parked. Sad it is a law there along with seemingly many states and just shows they have it to generate revenue not because it is logical. I am thankful it isnt a law here because I need tint and non tinted windows kill me when it is sunny because like you, I am sensitive to light but no doubt not as bad as you are after the surgery.
Here's hoping you get it straightened out and they can give you something to display in your car to prevent future tickets.
It is downright asinine to fine someone for having tint on their windows especially if the car is parked. Sad it is a law there along with seemingly many states and just shows they have it to generate revenue not because it is logical. I am thankful it isnt a law here because I need tint and non tinted windows kill me when it is sunny because like you, I am sensitive to light but no doubt not as bad as you are after the surgery.
Here's hoping you get it straightened out and they can give you something to display in your car to prevent future tickets.
06-14-2006, 01:52 PM
#4
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
First off, I do not believe the ticket is a moving violation. Last year I was pulled over for speeding in Vernon Hills (Illinois). As I tried talking my way out of it, the cop told me he had to give me a ticket since it was his Supervisor who clocked me. He decided to give me a ticket because I had a tinted plate cover. He went on to say that it wasn't a moving violation and if I went to court stating that I removed it, it would be dismissed. I believe that the tinted windows falls into the same category.
With that said, your link is to state law. Local municipalities can create their own ordinances. Just like it's illegal to own a handgun withing the Chicago city limits even though it's legal in the state of Illinois, or the fact that you can get pulled over in Chicago for talking on your cell phone without using a handsfree device, even though that's not a state requirement.
It may help to find an attorney with specific knowledge to Chicago ordinances. Good luck fighting City Hall.
With that said, your link is to state law. Local municipalities can create their own ordinances. Just like it's illegal to own a handgun withing the Chicago city limits even though it's legal in the state of Illinois, or the fact that you can get pulled over in Chicago for talking on your cell phone without using a handsfree device, even though that's not a state requirement.
It may help to find an attorney with specific knowledge to Chicago ordinances. Good luck fighting City Hall.
06-14-2006, 02:02 PM
#5
however state law supercedes local law when in contradiction or conflict, as does federal law over state and local laws.
This is a contradiction-there is a medical condition and therefore local law cannot supercede a medical exemption.
Just as if his car was a car registered in FL, he had FL plates and was passing through Chicago. If he received a ticket, it would not stand because the car is not registered in IL, where in FL it is legal to have tinted windows. States rights says that one state cannot rule in another-similar applies here, states rights rule over local rights.
This is a contradiction-there is a medical condition and therefore local law cannot supercede a medical exemption.
Just as if his car was a car registered in FL, he had FL plates and was passing through Chicago. If he received a ticket, it would not stand because the car is not registered in IL, where in FL it is legal to have tinted windows. States rights says that one state cannot rule in another-similar applies here, states rights rule over local rights.
06-14-2006, 02:04 PM
#6
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by sotiri
however state law supercedes local law when in contradiction or conflict, as does federal law over state and local laws.
This is a contradiction-there is a medical condition and therefore local law cannot supercede a medical exemption.
Just as if his car was a car registered in FL, he had FL plates and was passing through Chicago. If he received a ticket, it would not stand because the car is not registered in IL, where in FL it is legal to have tinted windows. States rights says that one state cannot rule in another-similar applies here, states rights rule over local rights.
This is a contradiction-there is a medical condition and therefore local law cannot supercede a medical exemption.
Just as if his car was a car registered in FL, he had FL plates and was passing through Chicago. If he received a ticket, it would not stand because the car is not registered in IL, where in FL it is legal to have tinted windows. States rights says that one state cannot rule in another-similar applies here, states rights rule over local rights.
You're probably right, but then wouldn't CHicago have a tough time enforcing the handfree cell phone violation as well? Is it only for medical?
06-14-2006, 02:06 PM
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Thanks for all the replies already! I just found out from my eye doctor that as of January 1st, 2005, he is no longer allowed to write medical excuses for tinted windows. In Illinois, apparently I now have to have a note from a "regular doctor," and as of 2008, no one will be allowed to have tinted windows unless they have a special license plate sticker indicating that they have lupus! Apparently having light sensitive eyes isn't important enough here in Illinois.
I understand that police officers don't want to approach a car they can't see inside of, but if I'm ever stopped, I put all four windows down, and turn on all interior lights, so they can feel at ease. I think the state saying the tint negatively restricts your view out of the car only applies to the limo-black tint, and only at night. For me, the tint is helpful, even at night. I think it's just a money-maker for the state/cities. Neighboring states don't have the same strict tint laws, similar to how in Illinois you must have a front plate, but you don't need one in Indiana or Michigan, or Iowa (?). Ugh. This is going to be an uphill battle, I'm sure. Anyone have any lawyer and/or doctor friends in Chicago?
Randy
Next thing you know, Illinois will fine you if you have tinted windows on your house. While parked. Ha.
I thought I'd share an image of the car with tint (parked in front of my girlfriend's building while waiting for her to come out) They don't look dark in the daytime; the two times I got the tickets were both at night, on a dimly lit street.
I understand that police officers don't want to approach a car they can't see inside of, but if I'm ever stopped, I put all four windows down, and turn on all interior lights, so they can feel at ease. I think the state saying the tint negatively restricts your view out of the car only applies to the limo-black tint, and only at night. For me, the tint is helpful, even at night. I think it's just a money-maker for the state/cities. Neighboring states don't have the same strict tint laws, similar to how in Illinois you must have a front plate, but you don't need one in Indiana or Michigan, or Iowa (?). Ugh. This is going to be an uphill battle, I'm sure. Anyone have any lawyer and/or doctor friends in Chicago?
Randy
Next thing you know, Illinois will fine you if you have tinted windows on your house. While parked. Ha.
I thought I'd share an image of the car with tint (parked in front of my girlfriend's building while waiting for her to come out) They don't look dark in the daytime; the two times I got the tickets were both at night, on a dimly lit street.
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06-14-2006, 02:08 PM
#8
and by the way... I am just waiting to get pulled over for talking on my cell phone.
Its illegal to talk on my cellphone as I drive, but not to drink a cup of coffee.
I cant talk on my phone while I am driving by holding it, but I can talk on it with a hands free while I am holding my wifes hand, or keeping my hand on the radio, or holding my Ipod, or etc etc.
If the argument is going to be that I must use hands free-I use a Nextel Blackberry, so the speakerphone will be on, but I always hold it in my hand... thats legal?
not to mention the first amendment arguments that will arise-when and how I speak freely in my car or anyplace in public/private property cannot be abridged.
Just you wait... so far they havent cited me for this, but if (when) they do, you will eventually see me in the press/courts working my way through this.
Its illegal to talk on my cellphone as I drive, but not to drink a cup of coffee.
I cant talk on my phone while I am driving by holding it, but I can talk on it with a hands free while I am holding my wifes hand, or keeping my hand on the radio, or holding my Ipod, or etc etc.
If the argument is going to be that I must use hands free-I use a Nextel Blackberry, so the speakerphone will be on, but I always hold it in my hand... thats legal?
not to mention the first amendment arguments that will arise-when and how I speak freely in my car or anyplace in public/private property cannot be abridged.
Just you wait... so far they havent cited me for this, but if (when) they do, you will eventually see me in the press/courts working my way through this.
06-14-2006, 02:12 PM
#9
'imilar to how in Illinois you must have a front plate, but you don't need one in Indiana or Michigan, or Iowa (?)'
They are enforcing this because IL state troopers are increasingly using lidar, as are some local cops, and with the design of todays cars, the only place where lidar actually can target on the front IS the license plate.
The headlights of today dont work as reflectors-to reflect back straight out, and there simply isnt any chrome or flat reflective surface that allows for lidar to work at the distance required to 'trap' you. And the rear? well 99% of the times, traps are targeting oncoming traffic.... cause if you passed the cop- you probably are already doing the limit or less
They are enforcing this because IL state troopers are increasingly using lidar, as are some local cops, and with the design of todays cars, the only place where lidar actually can target on the front IS the license plate.
The headlights of today dont work as reflectors-to reflect back straight out, and there simply isnt any chrome or flat reflective surface that allows for lidar to work at the distance required to 'trap' you. And the rear? well 99% of the times, traps are targeting oncoming traffic.... cause if you passed the cop- you probably are already doing the limit or less
06-14-2006, 02:14 PM
#10
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
What level of tint do you have?
I had 35% in my Vigor and TL and was never pulled over. Both were white cars and I think that may have something to do with it. My brother has had two black cars with the same level of tint and he's been pulled over in both cars multiple times.
I'm going to be getting the windows in my RL now tinted, probably at 35% again, but now that I have a darker color (Carbon Grey), I'm wondering if I'll be drawing attention to myself.
I had 35% in my Vigor and TL and was never pulled over. Both were white cars and I think that may have something to do with it. My brother has had two black cars with the same level of tint and he's been pulled over in both cars multiple times.
I'm going to be getting the windows in my RL now tinted, probably at 35% again, but now that I have a darker color (Carbon Grey), I'm wondering if I'll be drawing attention to myself.
06-14-2006, 04:28 PM
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dude just goto your doctor again and have him/her rewrite out your excuse so it meets the standards of the law and fight it with the judge not the cops cause all dey want is money the judge normally sides with drivers unless he/she is a dick. Also if the window tinting covers the front windows then its a ticket you cant fight unless with a doctors note so yea your best bet would be talk to your doctor again
06-14-2006, 09:55 PM
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Randy -- your silver RL look great and detailed nicely. What is the meaning of you license plate? Looks like vanity tags.
The tint may be too dark in IL. I know in Maryland, the legal limit is 35%, which is what I have on mine. I just sold my 99 RL w/35% tint but aftering passing state inspection, I had to get the tint approved by a MD state trooper. The have an office at the MVA dept and are available only on Wed and Thr mornings for 3 hours each day! Plus no inspection on rainy days! I lined up with everyone else one morning and the trooper would test each tinted window with a special light meter. Practically everyone failed except me. Those people were steaming mad. I had mine done at a custom shop and they told me I could get it darker but would need to pay someone to take it off ($100) if I sold it or get stopped. The trooper put special pass stickers on all my windows including the little ones on the rear doors. Good luck.
The tint may be too dark in IL. I know in Maryland, the legal limit is 35%, which is what I have on mine. I just sold my 99 RL w/35% tint but aftering passing state inspection, I had to get the tint approved by a MD state trooper. The have an office at the MVA dept and are available only on Wed and Thr mornings for 3 hours each day! Plus no inspection on rainy days! I lined up with everyone else one morning and the trooper would test each tinted window with a special light meter. Practically everyone failed except me. Those people were steaming mad. I had mine done at a custom shop and they told me I could get it darker but would need to pay someone to take it off ($100) if I sold it or get stopped. The trooper put special pass stickers on all my windows including the little ones on the rear doors. Good luck.
06-15-2006, 12:23 PM
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Thanks HoofandClaw...I owe it all to Zaino...
In Illinois, if you want vanity plates (any plate that doesn't end in a number) it will cost you around $95. However, you can still customize your plate, as long as it ends with a number, for just $24. Of course, that was when I ordered these plates, about five years ago, I don't know what the current prices are.
The tint law in Illinois states that you must not have ANY tint on the front driver & front passenger side windows. They are not concerned really with the rear and rear side windows. If it comes to it, I might just get a lighter tint on those front windows, which won't look very dark compared to the rear windows, and hopefully will prevent tickets. I just don't want to do that, I like the level of tint I have currently, and I'd have to pay hundreds of dollars to have the old tint removed and lighter tint installed. Plus, I try to avoid techs and installers working on my car as much as possible...
Spiderman --
I can't have the note re-written, because I as posted, my eye doctor can no longer write those notes with any validity. I don't have a general doctor I can see about this, as I am rarely sick...I haven't even been in for a check-up since 2002, and that was only for health insurance purposes.
Randy
In Illinois, if you want vanity plates (any plate that doesn't end in a number) it will cost you around $95. However, you can still customize your plate, as long as it ends with a number, for just $24. Of course, that was when I ordered these plates, about five years ago, I don't know what the current prices are.
The tint law in Illinois states that you must not have ANY tint on the front driver & front passenger side windows. They are not concerned really with the rear and rear side windows. If it comes to it, I might just get a lighter tint on those front windows, which won't look very dark compared to the rear windows, and hopefully will prevent tickets. I just don't want to do that, I like the level of tint I have currently, and I'd have to pay hundreds of dollars to have the old tint removed and lighter tint installed. Plus, I try to avoid techs and installers working on my car as much as possible...
Spiderman --
I can't have the note re-written, because I as posted, my eye doctor can no longer write those notes with any validity. I don't have a general doctor I can see about this, as I am rarely sick...I haven't even been in for a check-up since 2002, and that was only for health insurance purposes.
Randy
06-18-2006, 08:12 PM
#14
Black
Originally Posted by RandyChicago
I just don't want to do that, I like the level of tint I have currently, and I'd have to pay hundreds of dollars to have the old tint removed and lighter tint installed. Plus, I try to avoid techs and installers working on my car as much as possible.
-josh
06-19-2006, 03:10 PM
#15
Originally Posted by RandyChicago
Additional Findings:
LETTER FROM RESPONDENT PHYSICIAN DOES NOT MEET STANDARDS OF PARAGRAPH (g) OF SEC. 12-503, ILL. VEHICLE CODE AS AMENDED.
LETTER FROM RESPONDENT PHYSICIAN DOES NOT MEET STANDARDS OF PARAGRAPH (g) OF SEC. 12-503, ILL. VEHICLE CODE AS AMENDED.
With all due respect to those that said to appeal it to a judge, the judge cannot overturn law. He/she could make a ruling and you could continue to appeal with the final result being Illinois Supreme Court (this would never make it past that level).
You wrote that the fine was $25. That appears to be less than what the statute states and the maximum fine does not look appealing.
(j) A person found guilty of violating paragraphs (a), (b), or (i) of this Section shall be guilty of a petty offense and fined no less than $50 nor more than $500, a second or subsequent violation of paragraphs (a), (b), or (i) of this Section shall be treated as a Class C misdemeanor and fined no less than $100 nor more than $500. Any person convicted under paragraphs (a), (b), or (i) of this Section shall be ordered to alter any nonconforming windows into compliance with this Section.
No I am not a lawyer (at least not yet), but I've been a mediator for over a decade and done a fair amount of work with the court system and I don't see any chance of you winning an appeal. I have been wrong (though only on days that end in "Y"
) but would give you slim odds for winning and by the time you get to the upper courts, the legal fees would get huge.As a mediator/facilitator I might suggest an alternative... Find a good optometrist that has a large line of sunglass frames and see if something could be custom tinted (maybe something with wide wrap around lenses and super dark on the side and maybe along the top front edge to give you added relief). I was very fortunate with my LASIK back in 95 because my light aversion only lasted about a year. I do hope that something can be done to help.
Again. I'm sorry I don't have better ideas/ options, but I'd rather speak the truth as I know it than to give false hope.
Ben
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