LessisBestmakingendsmeet

http://www.infinitim.com/forums/show...7&page=2&pp=10


I drove the M45 Sport and the M35X and I think both cars are awesome. I have a 2005 RL which I'm trading in on the M45 Sport. Only had the darn car for 4 months, but I was won over immediately after driving the Ms. I went back and forth slightly between the M35x and the M45, but I decided to go with the power over the AWD. Damn it only snows 5 days a year anyway in Pa!

I liked the 2005 RL a lot, but it lacked the grunt that I was looking for. Handled great, but I drove the M45 Sport pretty hard on the test drive and it clearly out handles the RL. Of course the 19 inch tires and wheels probably helped over the 17 inchers on the RL, but that V8 sounds awesome and man that car moves when you step on it.

I'm sold.

petemc

I evaluated the RL carefully and am still very happy with it, so I don't see any need to change.

Good luck with your decision....someone's gonna get a good deal on a slightly used RL

Pete

rets

Haha, it's codyt01? Best luck to him.


I wouldn't say it's the bad choice. I'm torn between these two great vehicles, too... (But, I'd choose for AWD version, not the powerful M45 monster... IMHO) (GS300 was out of my list now)

8-)

Different strokes for different folks. Having choices is great.

hemants

No offence but it sounds like he didn't do his research before buying the RL.

Even before the M45 was available, there were plenty of other RWD V8 sedans he could have bought.

dseag2

So, what's your point?? I'm sure you are trying to infer that there are owners who are unhappy with their RL's.

Well, my friend, I will probably trade my RL by the end of the year as well, but it has nothing to do with disliking the car. I trade every year. And the M will be on my short list also. It is loads of fun to drive and is the only non-German car I'd consider as balanced a package as the RL.

Good for Cody. He will now have had the best of both worlds.

Hou-RL

That's what make its so great. You have the option to own either of them.

Good luck with the new one!

Rob L

Wow, he's trading in his car after only 4 months? Wonder how much he'll get for trade-in. Sounds though like it doesn't really matter to him.

I dont see myself trading the car in for anything else within the near future. The only car that has been announced/is out I would possibly consider trading it in for is the new Lexus IS (in AWD form) but even then the IS would have to have AMAZING handling that blows the RL away for me to do it. Having traded in the current IS for the RL I can tell you the IS does handle better but it doesnt blow the RL away.

dseag2

My '02 A6 4.2 stickered for $53K (although I paid slightly less). I got $38K for it 8 months later when I traded for my SC430. Took a huge bath, but I didn't care because I was so anxious to get away from Audi's service. After that experience nothing surprises me, but hopefully it won't be that bad with the RL.

Hou-RL

If I were to guess, I beleive he should get at least $43K at the minimum. The car is stll so new and there is no way to gauge the price. However, since there has been a slight price increase that has to work in his favor. Also, if miles are small enough then he should be able to maximize the possible return. There are not enough of them out there ad should drive the resale unless he appears to be anxious and they just stick it to him.

hemants

I thought audi service was all inclusive for four years???

iNteGraz92

exactly what i was thinking. going w/ the m45 obviously meant you wanted rwd and v8 power. why did you get the rl in the first place? should have just waited for the m45 to come out.

rllakeshore

Good for you but I love my RL. Maybe in 2-3 years I will see what else is out there. Usually I get restless every 2 years. I would say, my next car would be a super hybrid. Hopefully in 2-3 years, we will have much more selection on the hybrid front.

dseag2

Audi's service was included, but that didn't mean it was good. Their hours were very limited (only 9-1 on Saturdays, closed Sundays) and when they were open they were inept. Here's a quick list...

-Had to order replacement tire from Germany and service dept. had lost the tire when I came in for service.
-Service dept. lost the CAR when I went to pick it up at the cashier's desk. Employees were running all over the place looking for it.
-Gave me 4 hour detailing because of my service issues, then did the tire rotation AFTERWARD so the car was sparkling and the wheels were filthy and greasy.
-Calls from Audi of America to inquire about service issues I'd never had. They were just as screwed up as the dealership.
-Calls from Audi of America to inquire about whether I was satisfied with the service on my "A4". Didn't even know what car I owned.
-Hearing service department tell customers whose cars had been in the shop for days that "We're busy. We're only 1 of 3 Audi dealerships in South Florida."
-Being told by my service advisor that the (A4) loaner I got was the car he used to get to work and needed to be returned with a full tank

Need I say more? I never had any major issues with the A6, but I was terrified of what would happen if I ever did. Couldn't get away from Audi fast enough.

dseag2

In my particular case, I had done the research and was very aware of all the cars in this class that would be introduced early this year. I really hadn't made up my mind on whether to go with the RL, the GS or the M, but the dealership made me an offer I couldn't refuse on my '04 TL, so I went for it.

I figured even if I only held onto the RL for a year I would be okay with it. If I'd held onto the TL until later this year and traded it for an M it would have been worth a lot less than it was in 11/04. Yes, the RL will depreciate, but the TL would have as well. No big deal.

GaddAMIT

wait does the M35/M45 come in AWD? I thought it was just RWD for both. It might make me look at them more if they come in AWD. I def need it with the michigan snow!

saabfan

Only the M35.

M35
M35x (AWD)
M35 Sport

M45
M45 Sport

DCRL

I'll put the M on my list of next cars as soon as they take the Nissan out of the styling. Till then, it won't be on my next list.

codyt01

OK since it was my post that originally started this thread I figured I should chime in and let you guys hear a little bit more on why I finally decided to trade my RL in. Well there are several reasons they include:

1. Power of the M45 over the RL, M35 even kicks the RL butt in acceleration. Honda needs more power down low and they need to figure out how to get rid of that damn lag in acceleration when you step on the gas, especially from a rolling start.
2. Floaty ride and body roll, the RL has a great straight ahead ride and it sure can handle the curves due to the SH-AWD, but I do not like the amount of body roll you get when you push it hard. i think it is due to the 17" ride biased tires but it an annoyance.
3. Lack of a Rear Entertainment system - My kids are demanding it. They always want to take our MDX instead of the RL. Which I just ignore them and we take the RL, but I hate listening to the complaints. The Ms MES system is very cool in a Sedan and the Front Nav can show the DVD as well (while in park).
4. Treatment of my dealer - I've taken my RL in for service twice to my dealer (Sussmann Acura - Jenkintown Pa) and the service has been pitiful. They always say they can't find my issues and things simply don't get fixed.
5. Problems, problems, problems with the RL - now I know the grass always looks greener and I may end up seeing similar or other issues with the M, but two of my friends own Infiniti's and they have been very happy. Either way I have a list of issues with my RL that is pretty long including:
a. SH-AWD Error 78 - has come up and is scaring the hell out of me. I had my Trans on my 2002 Acura TLS replaced 4 times. I'm not doing this again with Acura. Anyone else have this error already?
b. Nav and Presents Gone Wild - my Nav settings and Radio presets simply disappear at will. One time I'll get in the car and the nav is set to heading north, I'll reset to Heading up and the damn thing changes back on its own on the next start. One time I'll have my presents the next I won't and I'll need to completely reconfigure them or I'll have the wifes presets eventhough her Fob is in the house. Go figure.
c. Paint chipping. The paint on the front of my RL is chipping much quicker than I saw on my 2002 TLS. A couple of the chips are very large. It is only on the hood, could the aluminum be the issue?
d. Lag in acceleration - the damn thing doesn't get up and go unless you really push it. When you simply accelerate lightly the power delivery isn't smooth, there is a long pause while the trans decides to shift down before accelerating quickly. I think this is due to a lack of torque down low with the engine, requiring a downshift that the Acura Trans doesn't execute very well. And speaking of the Trans I'm also having some very hard downshifts from time to time. Some hard enough to have passengers say, "what the hell was that. Did you hit something".
e. Rattles, not many, but the ones I have are very annoying and I can't seem to find where they are coming from. There is one in the front seemingly behind the speedo, that comes and goes with the temp.
f. Windshield Crack - going from passenger side lower corner up through 1/3 of the windshield. I've looked for the cause like a rock chip and I don't really see one. It's just a crack from the corner of the windshield that seemed to form on its own.

While this sounds kind of bad, overall I've been happy with the car. I love driving it, but I just wish it had more power, especially down low and I wish it didn't float as much and had a tighter suspension. I have been mulling over this decision to trade for some time. I can still back out of the M45 deal, but so far a lot of the things are telling me I shouldn't.

I've been an Acura/Honda person for the last 4 vehilcles. Kids 1998 Prelude, 2002 TLS, 2004 MDX, 2005 RL. My brother-in-law works for Honda and I normally love their vehicles, but I can't get over the fact that I'm seeing all of these issues with a brand new 50k car. I also can't get over the fact that the car simply doesn't have the acceleration that I feel a 300hp car should have. Maybe I'm biased, my 2002 TLS was supercharged with a comptech supercharger and I'm sure that is affecting my judgement here, but I like having that power when needed and I want a sporty handling car.

The RL handles very well but it is not as sporty on handling as the M45 Sport was. It isn't even close on acceleration and while the rest of the features are close (Nav, Xm Radio, DVD-A, Dolby 5.1, Bluetooth, etc) I feel the M45 looks better, handles better and surely out accelerates the RL hands down. Having a Sport option and getting 19" wheels that actually look really good and a handling tuned suspension is definitely a plus.

Now will I miss the SH-AWD? Absolutely, but am I worried about its reliability since I've already seen that damn error 78 twice in 10k miles. Yes. Maybe it needs a year or two to break in for Acura to work out the kinks, however I don't want to be the test vehilcle for them like I was in my 2002 TLS. I don't want to be taking my RL back to have the rear differential or whatever it is called replaced 4 times like I had to do with the transmission in my 2002 TLS.

So yes, I think there will be a nice Meteor Silver 2005 RL with 10,800 miles for sale in Willow Grove Pa relatively soon at the Infiniti dealer there. I hope my success with the 2006 M45 Sport will be better than I have seen with my 2005 RL. My fingers are crossed...

rets

Do you mind telling us how much your new M45 Sport would cost? And, prolly how much your RL would be while trading in?


Thanks.


I still think M45 Sport and RL are in the different league. IMO.

vicpai

is the only shortcoming of the RL in my mind also!! (That is, I'm talking of power, or more specifically low to mid end TORQUE).....If I were'nt looking at it from a "FLAGSHIP" point of view I might have said that it feels pretty quick......However, this car represents the PINNACLE, THE PEAK, THE BIG KAHUNA of the Acura lineup, and if they detested V8s so much, they should've given it at least a 3.8L V6 capable of producing a GOOD 300lb.ft. or so, of torque so that it could have a 0-60 in the "high fives", or worst case "very low sixes" .....it's just not right that Acura's own TL beats the RL......NOW, that said, I'm gonna STOP and get off the soapbox!!

Besides what I've said above, the RL is simply an AWESOME car in every other respect, especially the mind bogglingly good interior, where do I start .....The NAV SYSTEM with real time traffic is like nothing else on earth, the Audio system is in a class of it's own, Bluetooth anyone?, and the best part?...the way all of this is so beautifully and seamlessly integrated......Oh, and let's not forget the SHAWD inspired handling that makes this car cornerl like it's on rails!!

vicpai

....earlier about Honda/Acura Nav systems. They are simply THE BEST bar none!!.....so good, that it was the primary factor that swayed me toward buying my MDX!!!!......... because virtually all other NAV systems suck big time!!! ....the latest one from Lexus is the second best in my opinion.......and it's a VERY VERY VERY VERY DISTANT second. If they lived nine lives and some more, they would'nt even come close to Honda/Acura Nav systems

codyt01

Yes I do tend to repeat myself. I like the power and grunt. I did research a number of vehicles last summer. I was looking at the BMW 5 Series, A6, Mercedes E, all were the bigger buck cars, I was also checking out the TL and the G35x. On my list, but not yet available were the RL and the M. I quickly discounted the 5 series and E due to cost and reliability records. The A6 was pulling me pretty hard, but I didn't like the size of the back seat and it was still pretty pricey since I wanted the power of teh 4.2. I discounted the TL due to the size of the back seat as well. The G35 was pretty awesome but once again the size of the back seat did it in. That left the RL and M and since I had to get something in October/November at the latest, I was kind of stuck. When I drove the RL I loved it. I still do. I think it is a great car, but I promised myself I would drive the M when it came out and after I did, I guess I really got the bug to get rid of the RL. Well that is what we are thinking at this point, I may end up keeping the thing and trading in the MDX but that is a low probability that the wife and I are discussing.

To each his own. I wish you guys all the luck in the world with your RLs its a great car, fun to drive, solid (with some creaks that I'm sure would get fixed eventually by the dealer). I would just have some worry for that AWD system due to the issues I've seen.

By the way, for those of you who are intersted... The M45 Sport with Journey Sport, Tech, MES, Aero Kit and Full size spare is going to run around $59k. I had the Work wheels and mugen kit on order for my RL so I'm canceling those orders and saving around $7500 with install. That is going to the M45. They are giving me $42k for my car. I'm considering selling it outright, but I'm concerned with that due to the AWD issue.

8-)

For the time you have left with the RL, you might consider taking it to Montgomeryville Acura for service. I live a couple of miles from Sussman, but I bought my RL from Mongomeryville Acura simply because of how bad Sussman is. I'll never set foot in that place again. Or any other Sussman dealership.

Good luck with the M, it sounds terrific.

Rob L

Now that it matters but how does the M35 kick the RL's butt in acceleration? No test has shown this to be true unless you consider a whopping 2 or 3 tenths of a second "kicking butt"

One of thsee days I'm gonna get all the car forum people together who preach on about acceleration and prove that 99% of them can't tell the diff between a car doing 6.5 and one doing like 6.2 seconds and the 1% who can most likely are just guessing.

Enough of me continuing to go on about this since it is a losing cause...

Rob L

Note that I dont care if someone trades in their RL and all that jazz. If a person wants more power (ie the super quick M45 compared to the RL) then hey, great and in the case of Cody he is trading in for many other valid reasons which hey, I think is great too. If the M or any other car is better for what you seek then it makes sense to get that and for all I know maybe I'll be trading in my RL on the new Lexus IS before the year is over if I feel it has better handling (the one thing I miss from my old IS even though the RL is close )than what the RL has now.

I just am tired of hearing people act like the RL is soooooooooooooo slow when it isn't and I am tired of hearing people embellish things.

Karizma

i couldnt agree more about sussman. i have taken my vehicle there tons of times only to be dissapointed again and again by their poor service department. and when i say poor, i mean its an outright joke. the only ones worse than them is Davis Acura in Langhorne. I GUARANTEE these guys are the worst dealership this side of the mississippi river.

i need to find a quality service acura in this area quick!! i have heard good things about montgomeryvilles service, but bad things about the dealership. is there any other local ones that you guys have had good experiences with??

codyt01

Castle Acura in Delaware was my previous dealership. That is where I bought the 2002 TLS and the 2004 MDX. They did all the work on my 2002 TLS and the first two services on the MDX before I moved. they are great, but quite far away. Ardmore Acura did a nice job on the MDX during an accident repair and the were willing to deal with me on the buy of the RL, but they didn't have the color I wanted. I havne't used their service department other than the accident repair though.

codyt01

I'd like to clear up two other things. One I never said the RL was slow, it's just not as fast as I would like it to be. As for kicking butt over the M35, I drove a M35x and my butt feeling driving that car is in real world acceleration, which isn't 0 to 60 but more like 0 to 45, the M35 and M35x have much more seat of the pant accelleration than the RL. I've driven both and that is my take. The M35 is just quicker off the line and up to 45 and it carries that through 60 and the quartermile, but the RL gains on it above 45 but never catches it. As for comparisons I wouldn't trade my RL on an M35 if I wasn't having issues with the AWD system and the rest of the car. I think the AWD system in the RL is technically much better than the M35x. The car handles incredibly with that system, I've even said that on FreshAlloy boards and got hammered by those Nissan guys. Bugs aside the RLs system is a technically a better one, but I'm very concerned at this point about reliability of the RLs system. The ATTESSA system used in the M35x has been in use in some way, although updated since the Skyline and it's used in the FX45, FX35, G35x and has quite a few miles on it and no known issues that I'm aware of.

That being said, I did decide that I wanted the V8 power in the long run and that's the way I went. But please don't say I'm dissing the RL. I love my RL and if it had 300 ft lbs of torque, I wouldn't be trading it at all. I would probably be hammering the dealership on my issues and if I didn't get them resolved I would trade, but I'd at least go that step before trading.

Karizma

isnt ardmore acura also owned by marty sussman?

hemants

cody,

How does the RL feel in comparison to the TL Type S?

I have a Type S now and am very satisfied with it's punchiness off the line.

The RL is a fair bit slower on paper (closer to a TLP). Did it feel slower?

rets

That's the decent price for both of them... Thanks for sharing...

codyt01

I really don't know about the Marty Sussmann Acura issue but I know they were both going back and forth with me on the phone upping the trade in deal on my TLS to get me to buy the car from them, so I woudln't think they were owned by the same guy.

To answer the other questions, the Stock TLS was still faster off the line when compared to the RL. I think the AWD system and weight slow the RL down a bit, however the RL will out handle a stock TLS anyday. My TLS was modified quite a bit, I had a Comptech SuperCharger, Comptech Headers and Exhaust, Comptech ColdAir Intake, Eibach Springs, Koni Dampers, Comptech Sways, it was substantially upgraded. It handled like it was on rails and teh supercharger really gave the car a solid power boost. It woudl run 0 to 60 in around 5.2 seconds and the quarter in the high 13s low 14s. It was making about 340 to 350 HP. The RL simply can't keep up with those numbers and I wasn't expecting it to but I figured I could live with the slight lack of power with the add on of AWD and the other luxury amenities. Well when all was said and done I was really missing the power. I got very used to it. So I inquired with Comptech about a SC for the RL and they were contemplating it but there were somewhat worried about the market for it. They figure the RL owner is a different owner than the standard TL owner and would not be upgrading their car as much. Plus the TL had 4 market years under that model before Comptech came out with the SC. The current TL is out two years and while Comptech has had a SC in development for that car I still don't think they have released it. I simply couldn't wait that long. Hence my decision to go with the M45 Sport.

RedTangello

dseag2 - It really is a pity-- my mother drives a A6 and, lovely car that it is, the service is AWFUL. They've left her standing at the dealership for, literally, HOURS. The loaners are terrible (sometimes they'll give you an A4 which is fiiine... but once we got a smoker's Pontiac VIBE.) Her car's a 2000 and they recalled a bunch of the stereos a few months after buying. It took SEVEN MONTHS to order and install a new CD player. Total BS. Needless to say, she's waiting for an Acura wagon to come out, seeing how happy my father and I are with our RLs (2004 and 2000, respectively).

dweissnj

I just took delivery on the RL and compared it very closely with the M35x. Without a doubt the M beats the RL in acceleration and techno-whiz (plays dvd movies, front/rear cameras..) but the cockpit design of the M just didn't make me feel good about the car. It looks like the different sections were designed by 4 different people who couldn't get their videoconferencing to work. RL nav system is far superior and much more intuitive. Much more of a buyers market for RL. Got a great deal vs. waiting to pay MSRP or so on the M.

dseag2

Cody, I wish you much enjoyment with the M. I may go that route myself before the end of the year, but I'm not sure whether it will be the M or the GS. In either case, I would only trade my RL for something with a V-8. To me, the RL is the best of the V-6's. If I could offer some advice, since I'm sure you paid MSRP on the RL (as I did) you may want to wait a little longer before paying MSRP again for the M. My Infiniti salesman told me yesterday that the M isn't moving as fast as anticipated. I checked out the dealership's website today and they had 19 M35/45's in inventory (and they're one of the smaller dealers in So. Florida). A few could be sold, but not most, because he told me they had just about every color combination. I can't imagine Infiniti holding to MSRP that much longer if the inventory continues to sit on the lots.

03TL-S

Actually, there have been comparisons already and the m35 outhandled and outpowered the RL. There was a post not too long ago where there was a comparison in japan between the M35x and legend. Also, there was the comparison in car and driver. I just cant find the links to the articles at the moment.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Comparison in Japan that I saw was for a JDM Spec Fuga GT (M35 Sport, not M35x). The car and driver comparo I have not seen, but as is typical of the magazine comparos, it was probably an M45, and not a M35.

acurafox

I wonder if the A-spec package would make the RL closer in handling performance to the M? I also considered the M35x, but I got such a great deal on my RL that I couldn't resist (the combination of great price AND very low rate Acura financing were virtually irresistable), and I am already eyeing the various goodies available (a-spec suspension & body kit, forged 18 or 19 inch wheels) that I can now get with all the money I saved. Unfortunately, there is little one can do about the lack of low-end torque without a serious outlay of money, but I will be more likely to behave behind the wheel without it.

sufall96

Coming from a current IS I see why you don't think the RL is lacking power. One of my good friends owns an IS and drove it a numerous of times( even once from Jackson, Mississippi to New Orleans,LA). You are right it does handle well but the acceleration is not very impressive. We even raced several times and I easily blow his doors every time. Both in my 03 TL Type S and now in my 04 TL. Now of course the RL is in another league in every other aspect but we are commenting on acceleration now.