Rob L

yep, at one point in time way back in the day he used to write stuff I actually enjoyed reading. I guess when he fugged up his GS his brain got severely injured as well. oh well. Add him to the list of people who have knowledge of cars but choose to act like jackasses.

Did I actually get banned again? Can other people tell if I got banned or did 1sick say something?

I havent checked that forum in 2-3 days so I dunno if they banned me.

I will chuckle if I got banned on my RJML account simply because I spoke the truth about that chump. hahahaha

8-)

Yeah, I wasn't making that up. Yesterday afternoon some mod with an avatar that looks like Darth Vader said something like "see ya later Rob, you're not welcome here." Check page 8 of that thread. 1sick said something about finding you prior to that, but nothing about banning. It looks like 1sick got a henchman to do the dirty work. Or, should I say, one of his "soldiers." Anyway, take a look.

Rob L

hahahahaha that is funny but makes total sense at that place.

My first banning happened after I would make comments about thinking it was silly for people to be sooooooo orgasmic over 0-60 times and how it is stupid to be driving at very high speeds in racing around city streets. I also would comment in an honest way on body kits so if a person put some piece of crap kit on their car I would say how I didn't think it looked good at all but would do it in a nice way. This banned me because I was told by a mod there that I apparently don't like fast cars (funny) and that I needed to tone down what I said. I told him to basically shove it and would spreak freely even if it meant not sucking up to everyone because I felt that was useless to do. Note this was when I was still an IS300 owner so wasnt like I was some "outsider" perceived to be trying to rag on Lexus.

Guess the same happened this time simply because I do not suck CL wang and am not an ignorant and biased jackass. Oh well...now wherever will I go to see pics of horrible looking body kits on excellent luxury cars? The only good thing was seeing pics of new Lexus models but I guess I'll just have to spend more time and find them on my own I guess.

I won't be able to check that thread because they will have IP banned me. My first account was banned with my IP here at work and now this ban will be for my home IP.

I always thought Lexus owners/forums would be the most mature and least biased but I have been proven wrong. I must say the acura forums I am a member of now all seem to be pretty dang good so far. This one is so far the best. I like the conversation and attitude here

Karl_in_Chicago

Is comparing two sedans at similar price levels really "stupid"? As posted by Seneca01 the M45 has impressive performance numbers with an as-tested price right around the same as that of the RL (assuming the quoted numbers and pricing is correct). I guess I must be stupid for failing how to see this comparison is stupid. Please educate me.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The difference is that no matter what people say about the V8 models, they do not sell in large numbers compared to their V6 brethren. The V6 makes up something like 85% of sales in this price class. So no matter how many people praise the V8, when most of those people walk into a dealership, they only buy the V8. So although the V8 is there, no point bragging about it if it's not in the car purchased.

The as-tested price of the M45 did not include many of the features that are standard on the RL (like the the navi system). With all the features, the M45 actually ended up being close to $7k more than the RL and still does not come with AWD.

8-)

What I haven't been able to figure out is why the ClubLexus posters write so poorly. No disrespect to anyone over there, but it's just odd. (Fire away, I know my writing isn't perfect.)

Rob L

I see it as stupid because:

why compare a base V8 sedan to a loaded V6 sedan? Load the V8 up and it is a fair bit more expensive than the RL so there goes the similar price level component. Also, not that it would be by much but I am sure the performance figures of the M45 would decrease a bit after you actually put features into the car that the RL already has.

Also, if the M came ONLY as a V8 model it wouldn't be so bad to compare the M45 to the RL (or other V8 versions of sedans in this class) but it has a V6 model and that is what you compare to the RL.

Fact is, no V8 cars in this bracket are priced around the RL when you actually put features in them so it is stupid to compare the RL to them without first stating the obvious price difference.

If features dont mean a fug when comparing cars and I am to just go by price then why wouldnt I just buy a Mits Evo for way less than an M or BMW 545 and "smoke" it in every performance test possible? What's that? There is more to a luxury sedan than acceleration and (to a lesser degree) amazing handling? Nah....

dseag2

Very easy. Go into the Infiniti website and build a RWD M45 (no sport package, which is what the one in the tests had) and add the Technology Package, which also requires the Journey Package. That will give you a V-8 car w/ equipment similar to the RL (i.e. nav, DVD-Surround system, keyless entry, etc.) at an MSRP of $55,250. That isn't too similar to the RL MSRP but I'm sure the V-8 might be worth the additional $$$ to some.

Infiniti entry level pricing is very reasonable. Packaged add-ons are expensive.

Rob L

Just wanted to say that my previous reply was just my opinion of why it is stupid and was writing it in a general sense not trying to select anyone out who may do the comparisons I disagree with or who disagrees with me.

If people in ths segment do not care about having lots of features or AWD and want some serious performance capbaility then I dont see why they would not get the M45 as it seems like a damn sweet car for that 50K price.

For me, I wanted AWD and wanted all the cool features and didn't care so much about top notch straight line acceleration or having the best handling sedan. That is why I got the RL which is a fantastic package.

jrock65

I bet the V8 M45 w/ Journey and Tech will MSRP at about $54,000. Not bad.

The RL's chief competitor, M35 AWD w/ Journey and Tech, will probably be about the same as the RL, about $50k.

Karl_in_Chicago

OK, you guys win. Comparing two cars of similar price points is stupid so obviously so am I.

For the record, I like the RL and will probably purchase one. I'm not really all that interested in the performance as who drives a sedan for performance in the first place (and I laugh at 300 HP)? I need an AWD grocery-getter and I'm ready to replace my AWD Volvo Cross-country as I'm not all that impressed with the fit and finish, though it has been a reliable car and handles great in the bad weather (which is mostly when my RL would be driven). I haven't read the referenced Road & Track article (and obviously some of you have) and was simply referring to the posted stats. If it's not AWD and there are features missing that certainly does make a difference - though am I stupid for not seeing that as it wasn't made clear? Again, that would be the point - IMO - of comparing the vehicles in the first place, to clearly point out what each has or doesn't have. But, as the respondents to my question have made clear, there's no value in such a comparison.

8-)

Ok, buy an RL, kiss and make up.

machination

The M is over 4000 lbs? Surprising.

Which agency gave them 4 stars, where are you finding that? I dont see where the NHTSA tested it.

It can't be that bad since the IIHS rated it a 'best pick' (along with just about all others in its class) and it got a 'good' rating in all areas except one.

AcuraRLBlue

http://www.safecarguide.com/mak/mercury/idx.htm

This site summaries the results of the major testing agencies in the world. The RL, Infiniti FX, Ford 500, and the Mercury Montego are the only ones I found that have all best ratings, except that the RL has not have the frontal offset test yet. Honda anounced that it expects the RL to get a "Good" (highest rating) in the offset test.

This was one of the main reason that I picked the RL over others available now. Of course the new GS and the M but do as well too.

Senneca01

The results are from Euro NCAP, a harder test to do well than IIHS. The 5-Series first only earned 3-stars, then had to be retested to get 4-stars which still isn't as good as the new A6 or new E-Class.

Also, the 5'er got a best pick in IIHS for off-set frontal, but poor for a rear end impact.

machination

Interesting that the E got 5 stars there, but only 4 here by the NHTSA, while the S80 got 4 there (like the 5 series), but 5 stars here. Good indication that the 5 series might score the same when and if they finally test it.

As did the CTS, the G35, the I35, and others.
It was the 5 series with base seats, anyway. The model with sport seats/active head restraints scored an Acceptable, just like the E-class.

Rob L

No, dude you didn't know. Thing is MOST people who do the V8 to RL comparisons don't look at the price. If they do mention the prices and they are close they know full well the V8 model price is for the base trim level and it has half the stuff the RL comes standard with and they never make mention of this but instead will say "A V8 so and so is faster than the RL at the same price." If a person does this and won't bring up that fact (ie the V8 model doesn't have many features in it) then IMO it is a stupid comparison.

The reason it wasnt made clear to you is because the people who have posted the test results didnt feel the need to mention it wasn't a loaded up M45. Why people would buy mid-high end luxury sedans without having many features in them is beyond me though.

The best comparison I have seen is the 545 vs RL one. First, the MSRP of the 545 is I think in the mid 50s. Then when you load up a 545 to a similar equipment level of the RL and the price is around 62 grand.

SPUDMTN

All the more reason to get the RL

But if someone wants to compare the two, all the power to them...why not get the RL even if you're in the market for the 545i? It's a great overall package, and will save you thousands.

frainc

My newspaper "Newsday" runs every Friday a road test on new cars. Today they picked the 05 Mercedes C320. The price of this without a navigation system or full leather was $43,870. Add the nav. and full leather its $47,630

I know this is a RL tread, but since we are comparing cars, I just had to throw this in. So why in the world would someone buy this car that's over $10K more than a TL and only $2K less than a RL( because its a MB ).

machination

Question asked, question answered.

That star means a lot to some people.

SPUDMTN

Hold on...to say it's only the star on the hood is a little bit un true (for some people). Sure, I like the star as much as any other person out there. I love the look of their vehicles and more importantly the feel. There is nothing like a solid German automobile. The teutonicness of German vehicles cannot be duplicated by Japanese automobiles. That in itself can be worth that extra dough.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Meh...I think people just give MB way too much credit. Their cars have been mediocre of late (aside from AMG models) in the performance categories, too cookie cutter in design, and reliability is slipping. That 3-pointed star is the only saving grace at this point, but that will only last so long...

machination

Hold on for what? I said 'to some people', you said 'for some people', so basically we're agreeing.

Rob L

I have no idea if the C320 is worth that much but I would guess for some it is and for others they would buy the car because it is a MB and apparently that means something to others.

All I know is I think it is silly for people to buy a car based on brand prestige. When I was a teenager I used to be a bit impressed by those who got BMWs, MBs, etc because of the name but as an adult I don't care about that.

Based on paper and reports on reliability MBs seem to be grossly overpriced compared to other luxury brands out there and it seems to me many buy them because of the name. However, as stated, I have not driven a MB so I can't form a conclusion on that and may be way off based in my initial opinion. I will say that if MB owners are happy with their choice then hey, that's great because it is all what makes us each happy that matters most.

I like the exterior styling of MB cars but I feel they use the same cookie-cutter design and that bugs me. All the german makes do this and I take points away for lack of originality even if the styling they choose is a good one, like MB. Japan makes do not do this....yet.

frainc

Come, Come, do you really think that a C320 is worth over $10K more than a TL because its a MB and has a STAR!

Let's see, you are 18, so how many cars have you had and was one of them a STAR car, since you think so high of them?

BarryH

I've owned three M-B's, three BMW's, and a Volvo. That was before and after I owned a TL-S and MDX. From a fit, finish, materials, design, engineering, and build perspective, the TL is inferior to European cars. Read some of the posts on the TL forum and you can see where Acura's cut corners. Acura typically loads it's cars up with third party electronics that add value in the mind of the consumer but have nothing to do with the engineering of the car. In it's defense, it's a great value for the money. Let's face it, Acura can't build a $45K car for $35K - somethings got to give somewhere. I've driven the new RL and think that most(not all) of the typical Acura/Honda scrimping has been avoided. The fact that it's built in Japan also helps a lot in the fit/finish/build areas also.

SPUDMTN

Okay...my bad.

SPUDMTN

In all honesty, I'd probably put my own money on the TL...however, I'd give a very close look to a less-optioned C320. I think that the teutonic feel is worth a premium, however (definitely not $10k). I don't think it's wise to option out a C-class, A4, or 330i...does the money spent on all of those options ever come back?

BTW--nope, don't happen to own a star car...have much experience with them, however. I'll probably give them a try some day, however. The look, feel, and drive of a European car really tugs at the emotions...but the sensible side of me knows that a Japanese vehicle will be a far wiser choice. I will say Acura and Lexus are doing VERY good at imitating the feel of the Euro lux-barges.

BTW2--I'm not a Euro-car fanboy. I have a love for all cars...I'm just stating my feelings.

frainc

OK, good, now you sound older and wiser

frainc

The European cars may to you have a better fit, design, engineering and build perspective, but these days it seems that MB's and BMWs are not living up to that with the problems people are having with them, JP Power has them below average.

I don't know what you driving right now but my question was ' Is a C320 worth more than $10K more than a TL'. I sure don't think so. By the way I have a 03TL-S that is problem free and enjoy the hell out of the car.

machination

Spud does bring up a good point about the feel of Euro cars, esp. M-B and BMW; just HOW do they manage to feel so solid and vault-like compared to Japanese cars. I've driven my stepmom's LS430 a lot, and my dad's 745 a lot. While the LS is definitely tight as a drum, it doesn't feel AS TIGHT as the 7. Same story for their old cars, a GS400 and a 540i; the 5 had a solidity the GS couldn't match.

Is it perception or do the Europeans just build their luxury cars differently than the Japanese?

sufall96

I think everyone is getting it twisted. I've seen comparisons from various magazines Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Road & Track, Automobile Mag. ect. where they make a comparison from cars in the same price range and then turn around a few issues later and make a comparison with some of those same cars(plus or minus a few) with all V6'S or all V8'S. So it really depends what that magazine or person wants to compare. Not every car company makes a car to directly compare with another company. The only other company that I can think of that offers a $50,000 V6 is Mercedes(E320). In that respect according to a lot of you on this site that is the only car you can compare it to. Neither one is right or wrong.

SPUDMTN

It's not perception. It's German philosophy. German automobiles are tools of precision. Not gadgets. Germans really do build their cars differently than the Japanese. I might try to explain this more...but later...

SPUDMTN

I might be wrong...but it seems as though you have not driven a German automobile (or maybe just not a Mercedes). You should go test drive one. It might be a little bit easier to understand. Words can only say so much. I, too, wondered if BMW & Mercedes really lived up to all the hype--and they do.

rllakeshore

I've driven my share of german cars. BMWs especially are fun cars to drive but in the end, reliability is a big issue. It seemed MBs and Bimmers use lower and lower quality feeling material then the past especially in the interior as well. Anyway, to each his own. I have a nice fun play sports car during the weekend and I drive the RL to and from everywhere. and do not miss my A8 at all.

Rob L

I've sat in a fairly loaded up S430 and didn't think it was at the level of the LS430 loaded up. The S430 interior was nice but to me, not as nice as the LS430 interior. I have also sat in a loaded 330xi and thought the interior was junk.

To each their own though.

I do like Audi interiors...they are very classy.

jrock65

MSRP released for 2006 M:

M35: $39,900
M35 AWD: $42,400
M35 Sport: $42,700
M45: $46,750
M45 Sport: $49,550

Destination (not included): $610

http://www.nissannews.com/infiniti/n..._m_pricing.pdf

M35 AWD plus Journey, Navi, and Satellite radio: $48,100
Cooling Seats
Rearview Camera

RL: $49,500
5.1 surround stereo
Rear sunshade
Real-time traffic
Onstar

Rob L

sounds like they dropped the price of the M compared to the prices they originally had on the site before. Impressive.

The M35 AWD will similar features as the RL I think still comes out slightly more but still, the M's price is damn impressive.

Infiniti should sell a bundle of these babies and I hope they do.

frainc

Yes. I did drive one, my kids 328is. I drove it many times and yes it was fun to go into exits and fool around, but for everyday driving like I do around Long Island, my TL is better. Even if I lived in the hills where the 328 handles better, the value is just not their. Sorry, but my son's new TL will out perform his old 328, that's why he got the TL instead of another 3. Look at this months Road and Track and look at the skidpad and slalom times, the TL best the 330i in both (I know, what's a 1/10 of a second). I may agree with you that the 330 does it with a better feeling, but I don't drive my cars going thur skidpad and slaloms.

But each his own, right! That's why their are cars for everyones taste.

phile

I think the cooling seats and the rearview camera trump the rear sunshades and Onstar from the RL. I wouldn't give up the real-time traffic though, a potential headache saver from a bad day at work.