RL Conspicuously Absent from GENESIS Comparos
10-05-2008, 02:07 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
RL Conspicuously Absent from GENESIS Comparos
Could it be that Hyundai wants to compare only to higher brand cache? Or perhaps Hyundai does not want a model with dismal sales mentioned in the same breath as GENESIS?
I am impresed with the Genesis, but only from what I read and the marketing Hyundai has undergone. I do not see me owning one, still I respect the effort set forth. I expect to test drive one soon, as I have learned automotive media rarely captures the attributes that appeal to me in my automobile ownership.
But I have been reading and watching several GENESIS reviews, and what I find interesting is that the arguments as to WHY a GENESIS is a viable alternative to MB, BMW, Lexus and even Infiniti also applies to the RL. In fact, I think most of these comparos could easily retrofit the RL and apply the same argument. It could be that only F/R configuration was considered, and again the V8 option, but I see the GENESIS tip toeing down the same path our RL has. Initially reviewed and received well, but fell to brand cache and luxury car attribute exectations therafter.
Only one mention of the RL did I cross, where it stated size and proportions were similar. Although I agree that every competitor styling cue is assimulated into the GENESIS (yes, Star Trek reference intentional as a nod to the Klingon forehead-like grille of the GENESIS
) I think the overall exterior styling compliments the RL in most every angle. But no mention of it.
I think Hyundai is making an impressive marketing effort to get the attention of the marque mongers...something Acura fails to do. But I wonder if the absence of Acura and specifically RL references in an intentional dis? It is clear that the Koreans are aggressively treading on luxury brands with a respectable offering, wheras Acura still cannot confidently claim the same.
I think Acura may wind up chasing Hyundai if GENESIS succeeds where the RL did not. I would think Acura may also need to adopt Hyundai's matter of fact marketing style to stay in the game. I like he artful Acura ads, but they do not argue as to how and why Acura should be considered with the usual club.
Wisely, with the Klingon skull plate grille and GENESIS name, Hyundai did NOT create an advert with Ricardo Montalbon exclaiming the virtues of the car's leather, dressed as Khan and calling ownership the 'Genesis Effect'. However, the 'Genesis Effect' ('life from death') may be exactly what our beloved RL will need.
Does anyone else notice a conspicuous absence of Acura and the RL?
I am impresed with the Genesis, but only from what I read and the marketing Hyundai has undergone. I do not see me owning one, still I respect the effort set forth. I expect to test drive one soon, as I have learned automotive media rarely captures the attributes that appeal to me in my automobile ownership.
But I have been reading and watching several GENESIS reviews, and what I find interesting is that the arguments as to WHY a GENESIS is a viable alternative to MB, BMW, Lexus and even Infiniti also applies to the RL. In fact, I think most of these comparos could easily retrofit the RL and apply the same argument. It could be that only F/R configuration was considered, and again the V8 option, but I see the GENESIS tip toeing down the same path our RL has. Initially reviewed and received well, but fell to brand cache and luxury car attribute exectations therafter.
Only one mention of the RL did I cross, where it stated size and proportions were similar. Although I agree that every competitor styling cue is assimulated into the GENESIS (yes, Star Trek reference intentional as a nod to the Klingon forehead-like grille of the GENESIS
) I think the overall exterior styling compliments the RL in most every angle. But no mention of it.I think Hyundai is making an impressive marketing effort to get the attention of the marque mongers...something Acura fails to do. But I wonder if the absence of Acura and specifically RL references in an intentional dis? It is clear that the Koreans are aggressively treading on luxury brands with a respectable offering, wheras Acura still cannot confidently claim the same.
I think Acura may wind up chasing Hyundai if GENESIS succeeds where the RL did not. I would think Acura may also need to adopt Hyundai's matter of fact marketing style to stay in the game. I like he artful Acura ads, but they do not argue as to how and why Acura should be considered with the usual club.
Wisely, with the Klingon skull plate grille and GENESIS name, Hyundai did NOT create an advert with Ricardo Montalbon exclaiming the virtues of the car's leather, dressed as Khan and calling ownership the 'Genesis Effect'. However, the 'Genesis Effect' ('life from death') may be exactly what our beloved RL will need.
Does anyone else notice a conspicuous absence of Acura and the RL?
10-05-2008, 05:34 PM
#4
Safety Car
A w d
Another possible reason for the lack of comparison is that the RL only comes in AWD & not RWD, like the Genesis.
10-05-2008, 07:45 PM
#6
Senior Moderator
Until the Genesis comes in RWD trim, there won't be a true apples-apples comparison.
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10-05-2008, 08:02 PM
#8
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
Thread Starter
The majority of the reviews were the V6 Genesis. I think the V8 is just about to be launched (if not already).
I can agree with the F/R differentiation,,,,however that is barely discussed.
In fact, one review with Motor Trend and the Product Manager for the GENESIS (A former Detroit guy), claims the target market is not keen on sport as much as ride, stability and safety attributes. In effect, those drivers are likely not to know, or care what the drive wheels are. What they are likley to know, is it is as good as a Benz here, and as good as a BMW there and looks like a Lexus here.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...s+&vt=lf&hl=en
I can agree with the F/R differentiation,,,,however that is barely discussed.
In fact, one review with Motor Trend and the Product Manager for the GENESIS (A former Detroit guy), claims the target market is not keen on sport as much as ride, stability and safety attributes. In effect, those drivers are likely not to know, or care what the drive wheels are. What they are likley to know, is it is as good as a Benz here, and as good as a BMW there and looks like a Lexus here.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...s+&vt=lf&hl=en
10-05-2008, 08:08 PM
#10
The majority of the reviews were the V6 Genesis. I think the V8 is just about to be launched (if not already).
I can agree with the F/R differentiation,,,,however that is barely discussed.
In fact, one review with Motor Trend and the Product Manager for the GENESIS (A former Detroit guy), claims the target market is not keen on sport as much as ride, stability and safety attributes. In effect, those drivers are likely not to know, or care what the drive wheels are. What they are likley to know, is it is as good as a Benz here, and as good as a BMW there and looks like a Lexus here.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...s+&vt=lf&hl=en
I can agree with the F/R differentiation,,,,however that is barely discussed.
In fact, one review with Motor Trend and the Product Manager for the GENESIS (A former Detroit guy), claims the target market is not keen on sport as much as ride, stability and safety attributes. In effect, those drivers are likely not to know, or care what the drive wheels are. What they are likley to know, is it is as good as a Benz here, and as good as a BMW there and looks like a Lexus here.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...s+&vt=lf&hl=en
Expect 22" wheel sales to take off.
10-05-2008, 09:35 PM
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10-06-2008, 04:00 PM
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Apparently, we're not the only ones.
As mentioned here:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...=6060#post6060
even Genesis owners would like to compare Genesis with RL, but rather keep comparing it with TL.
As mentioned here:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...=6060#post6060
even Genesis owners would like to compare Genesis with RL, but rather keep comparing it with TL.
10-06-2008, 04:19 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
It's just marketing: they look to buyer segments they'd like to either tap into or generate comparison with, and spend their limited time chasing that segment. The RL doesn't sell well enough to chase the segment, so there's no upside to mentioning it in ads.
10-07-2008, 12:59 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Check out the 2010 Mercedes E-Class. Note the Genesis grill and the RL head/taillight styling. Of course, those descriptions are partly tongue in cheek as the cars remain similar through different variations.
10-07-2008, 05:25 PM
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Genesis - is a very good vehicle (with respect to price paid vs. features) as I mentioned in my previous reviews (from passenger and driver seat).
Problem for this vehicle, as been indicated earlier, wouldn't come from it's quality and/or features, it would rather come from weak dealership experience and support. I believe it is start happening now:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...=6375#post6375
My believe, that Luxury vehicle buyer expects luxury treatment. They keep comparing Genesis with Lexus, as an eye opener, but don't forget Toyota/Lexus always had great customer support department.
Plus 600 something units sold in Month of July doesn't really pose any thread to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Acura (TL) - at least not yet.
Problem for this vehicle, as been indicated earlier, wouldn't come from it's quality and/or features, it would rather come from weak dealership experience and support. I believe it is start happening now:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...=6375#post6375
My believe, that Luxury vehicle buyer expects luxury treatment. They keep comparing Genesis with Lexus, as an eye opener, but don't forget Toyota/Lexus always had great customer support department.
Plus 600 something units sold in Month of July doesn't really pose any thread to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Acura (TL) - at least not yet.
10-07-2008, 08:03 PM
#18
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
Thread Starter
Genesis - is a very good vehicle (with respect to price paid vs. features) as I mentioned in my previous reviews (from passenger and driver seat).
Problem for this vehicle, as been indicated earlier, wouldn't come from it's quality and/or features, it would rather come from weak dealership experience and support. I believe it is start happening now:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...=6375#post6375
My believe, that Luxury vehicle buyer expects luxury treatment. They keep comparing Genesis with Lexus, as an eye opener, but don't forget Toyota/Lexus always had great customer support department.
Plus 600 something units sold in Month of July doesn't really pose any thread to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Acura (TL) - at least not yet.
Problem for this vehicle, as been indicated earlier, wouldn't come from it's quality and/or features, it would rather come from weak dealership experience and support. I believe it is start happening now:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...=6375#post6375
My believe, that Luxury vehicle buyer expects luxury treatment. They keep comparing Genesis with Lexus, as an eye opener, but don't forget Toyota/Lexus always had great customer support department.
Plus 600 something units sold in Month of July doesn't really pose any thread to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Acura (TL) - at least not yet.
10-07-2008, 09:41 PM
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Do not know, Tampa.
I'd received pretty good service from 2 of my local Acura dealerships.
If anything broke they would fix it, and if needed you'd get free loaner with the snap of the finger...
Still RL is vehicle which is 5 yrs on the market already (incl 2009 mutation) - no wonder interest is so low. Advertisement is boring and unteresting.
On the other hand Genesis on it's rise, you'll see advertisements everywhere, even during Prime Time - during "Heroes"...
I think the new TL sales would beat Genesis by a mile, even though I'm not a fan.
I'd received pretty good service from 2 of my local Acura dealerships.
If anything broke they would fix it, and if needed you'd get free loaner with the snap of the finger...
Still RL is vehicle which is 5 yrs on the market already (incl 2009 mutation) - no wonder interest is so low. Advertisement is boring and unteresting.
On the other hand Genesis on it's rise, you'll see advertisements everywhere, even during Prime Time - during "Heroes"...
I think the new TL sales would beat Genesis by a mile, even though I'm not a fan.
Last edited by vladfrenkel; 10-07-2008 at 09:46 PM.
10-07-2008, 09:45 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Oh I would agree with you! My dealer has been stellar and the best auto service I have experienced to date.
Unfortunately a theme that resurfaces on this forum, is that there is a lot of inconsistency in Acura service from dealer to dealer, hindering the luxury marque perception.
10-07-2008, 10:02 PM
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Well, this is what makes this forum different.
Even though we're more than happy with our vehicles, there are still "cons" we'd find and resurface (nothing wrong with that).
Quick example would be - needed V8, no enough Torgue, 5spd transmisison, etc... All very valid points, but from the side looks like we're not satisfy with what we currently have. Again this is my observation.
Here is a quote from other forum, and don't get me wrong, I was not happy with it:
"The Acura. (A.sias C.urse U.pon R.ich A.mericans by the way) is heavy. It's a Honda (H.old O.n N.o D.amn A.cceleration)". Some of it comes from our vehicle perception as
well (if guy wrote this searched Honda and Acura forums)
Here is other example:
"The 2009 Acura TL doesn't have proven reliability yet, it's a new vehicle."
Been said by the person, who bought Genesis - actually really new player on the market...
Source: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...read.php?t=701
On other hand, monitoring some other car forums (BMW's, Hyundai, etc...) I see that people are satisfied with their vehicles and if major problems found - still points out the greatness of the vehicle they own.
I think this would also include some dealership experiences others had. On average Acura close to other luxury brands treatment. There is always problem points of course.
Even though we're more than happy with our vehicles, there are still "cons" we'd find and resurface (nothing wrong with that).
Quick example would be - needed V8, no enough Torgue, 5spd transmisison, etc... All very valid points, but from the side looks like we're not satisfy with what we currently have. Again this is my observation.
Here is a quote from other forum, and don't get me wrong, I was not happy with it:
"The Acura. (A.sias C.urse U.pon R.ich A.mericans by the way) is heavy. It's a Honda (H.old O.n N.o D.amn A.cceleration)". Some of it comes from our vehicle perception as
well (if guy wrote this searched Honda and Acura forums)
Here is other example:
"The 2009 Acura TL doesn't have proven reliability yet, it's a new vehicle."
Been said by the person, who bought Genesis - actually really new player on the market...
Source: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...read.php?t=701
On other hand, monitoring some other car forums (BMW's, Hyundai, etc...) I see that people are satisfied with their vehicles and if major problems found - still points out the greatness of the vehicle they own.
I think this would also include some dealership experiences others had. On average Acura close to other luxury brands treatment. There is always problem points of course.
Last edited by vladfrenkel; 10-07-2008 at 10:05 PM.
10-08-2008, 07:07 AM
#22
Safety Car
So why doesn't Acura/Honda get on the direct injection wagon?
I understand the only DI engine they had was on the JDM Stream. Did they have issues with it that could not be overcome?
In this economic chaos, I can understand if they want to stay with a V6. DI would seem to offer more immediate increases in efficiency, which if nothing else, could boost fuel economy, but for us more enthusiastic types, increases in torque and horsepower.
I understand that GM and Toyota/Lexus, and of course, all the German companies, are on the DI band wagon.
Anyone have any insight as to why no DI? Or is DI one of those much publicized, but not that much gain type of change?
I understand the only DI engine they had was on the JDM Stream. Did they have issues with it that could not be overcome?
In this economic chaos, I can understand if they want to stay with a V6. DI would seem to offer more immediate increases in efficiency, which if nothing else, could boost fuel economy, but for us more enthusiastic types, increases in torque and horsepower.
I understand that GM and Toyota/Lexus, and of course, all the German companies, are on the DI band wagon.
Anyone have any insight as to why no DI? Or is DI one of those much publicized, but not that much gain type of change?
10-08-2008, 07:44 AM
#23
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Thread Starter
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2003-4031127a/
There seems to be more interest from Honda for DI Diesel technology which can offer better efficiency, even more torque, less engine component complexity and remain enviromentally concious as Honda typically is. Perhaps that would make the gas DI engine technology less favorable in the long term. Any Honda typically is very cautious rushing technology to market that has not been tested and proven.
There are several new Honda engine plants coming online, mostly for 4cyl engines and green diesels. However, the new plant at Saitama is conspiculously closed lipped with the products to be produced at that site. It comes online 2010. It also coincides with the new assembly plant nearby and the redesign of the current RL / LEGEND assembly plant.
If I were a betting man, I would expect something in the next gen RL / LEGEND. I would like to see DI Diesel and Cylinder Deactivation perfected for the next RL. I think that would not only improve efficiency and engine technology (as I expect from Honda), but also give us the performance experiece we lust for regardless of the cylinder numbers.
And not to go so far off topic, I think Honda would leapfrog anything GENESIS can offer. GENESIS, though impressive and agressive to be included in the same segment, does not really introduce new, innovative technology or engineering. It does, however, aggressively mimic what is already on the market, and packages it in a very palatable manner.
10-08-2008, 09:42 AM
#24
[QUOTE=vladfrenkel;10066968]
Here is other example:
"The 2009 Acura TL doesn't have proven reliability yet, it's a new vehicle."
Been said by the person, who bought Genesis - actually really new player on the market...
Source: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...read.php?t=701
QUOTE]
Are they for real?? And the new 2009 Genesis DOES have proven reliability?? I would surmise the TL has its reliability established over the last decade. Somebody is trying to reassure themselves over their purchase I think.
Here is other example:
"The 2009 Acura TL doesn't have proven reliability yet, it's a new vehicle."
Been said by the person, who bought Genesis - actually really new player on the market...
Source: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...read.php?t=701
QUOTE]
Are they for real?? And the new 2009 Genesis DOES have proven reliability?? I would surmise the TL has its reliability established over the last decade. Somebody is trying to reassure themselves over their purchase I think.
10-08-2008, 05:03 PM
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You're rite.
This has touched me the most. People try to reassure themselves over they're own buy.
How about this one:
"RL observations: Not really a fair comparison because this car is potentially $15-20K more than the Genesis out the door. I feel that the interior finish of the Genesis vs the RL was pretty comparable and this says a lot given the price difference. I personally didn't like the front seat...can't explain it, but it left a bad impression. The front felt slightly more claustrophobic to me even though it appeared comparable in space to the Genesis. Definitely was as quiet as the Genesis. The back seat is definitely smaller than the Genesis, but bigger than the RL. The deal breaker for me here (besides the higher price) is that this car drove like my Dad's Buick. It felt loose and smooshy. It lacked the SOLID feel of the Genesis. "
Genesis is quiter in my perception, cocpit is sportier, but less room in front as well. SOLID feel, hmm...
Dad's Buick come on...
RL is a sport luxury car not the luxury cruiser as Genesis. (Again nothing wrong with it - simply different suspension settings, and different crowd to please). My friend owns 535i BMW, and even he admits, that on the sharp turns RL handles better than his bimmer with sport suspension (well maybe it's A-spec from my end to...)
Same source: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...p?t=701&page=2
You see there car appreciation should come into play...
This has touched me the most. People try to reassure themselves over they're own buy.
How about this one:
"RL observations: Not really a fair comparison because this car is potentially $15-20K more than the Genesis out the door. I feel that the interior finish of the Genesis vs the RL was pretty comparable and this says a lot given the price difference. I personally didn't like the front seat...can't explain it, but it left a bad impression. The front felt slightly more claustrophobic to me even though it appeared comparable in space to the Genesis. Definitely was as quiet as the Genesis. The back seat is definitely smaller than the Genesis, but bigger than the RL. The deal breaker for me here (besides the higher price) is that this car drove like my Dad's Buick. It felt loose and smooshy. It lacked the SOLID feel of the Genesis. "
Genesis is quiter in my perception, cocpit is sportier, but less room in front as well. SOLID feel, hmm...
Dad's Buick come on...
RL is a sport luxury car not the luxury cruiser as Genesis. (Again nothing wrong with it - simply different suspension settings, and different crowd to please). My friend owns 535i BMW, and even he admits, that on the sharp turns RL handles better than his bimmer with sport suspension (well maybe it's A-spec from my end to...) Same source: http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...p?t=701&page=2
You see there car appreciation should come into play...
10-08-2008, 05:10 PM
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And to summarize it I'm with member of Genesis forum:
"2009 Acura TL
Bsse 35K
Base/Tech package 39K to
S AWD Larger 305 Hp/Tech package43K
2009 Genesis
Comparable to Acura TL base 36K
Tech package 40K
V8 42 375hp 42K
Now granted the Gen has more hp and a little more bell and whistles. That really just fluff for me. I strongly considering the Acura Tl over the Hyundai Gen. 09 Tl design is growing on me and it looks better in person.
09 Tl has proven reliablity and huge resale value advantage. With better service such as free carwash and loaner car. And I more name prestigue. And more agressive stlying. (That is subjective...I know)
Hyundai GEn great car. More lux cabin. More hp. No brand image. No loaner car. Excellent waranty. Resale value stucks."
I think this says it's all - at least for me...
"2009 Acura TL
Bsse 35K
Base/Tech package 39K to
S AWD Larger 305 Hp/Tech package43K
2009 Genesis
Comparable to Acura TL base 36K
Tech package 40K
V8 42 375hp 42K
Now granted the Gen has more hp and a little more bell and whistles. That really just fluff for me. I strongly considering the Acura Tl over the Hyundai Gen. 09 Tl design is growing on me and it looks better in person.
09 Tl has proven reliablity and huge resale value advantage. With better service such as free carwash and loaner car. And I more name prestigue. And more agressive stlying. (That is subjective...I know)
Hyundai GEn great car. More lux cabin. More hp. No brand image. No loaner car. Excellent waranty. Resale value stucks."
I think this says it's all - at least for me...
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