Howdy gents!

I've been an RL owner for the last 5 years. its a 2005 with 8xxxx miles on it. had it since it had 36xxxx miles.

I live in northern IL. throughout this winter I've been experiencing emission control failure lights together with AWD failure lights.

for the past 5 months or so they keep coming up for a couple of days, than go off for a couple days than back on and soo on... Initially the code for EGR came up but looking at the message center I have other codes too...
There are no driving symptoms, except maybe the traction control kicks in with a slight delay when the AWD 77 is on. (77 never comes up by itself, always after emission)

The codes for emissions are:
P0174
P0401
P0404
the awd code is 77.

Its been an extra heavy winter over here, I did not recall hitting anything with the bottom of the car but it is a possibility. I have definitely ground the bottom of the car on ice buildup etc. Nothing strong though.

With multiple failure codes could someone point me in the right direction? I'm assuming one problem causes other problems but Im a better cook than a mechanic and all the shops want to abuse me talking about removing intake, cleaning passages and other BS.

__________________________________________________ ________
Also two less important questions but I'll post them here, did anyone found out the solution to the head unit quitting reading DVD's? mine recognizes the discs but refuses to read them and the radio reception is terrible (either due to winter or other electrical issues) since there is no AUX plug i heave to drive with buds and music from my smartphone

Also is anyone else experiencing ALternator issues? my original one quit at 5x xxx miles and since than Im on my 4th one!!! first Bosch quit after 6 months, second started making lound noises after 2.5 years...now on 3rd Bosch/4th unit including original one, still far away from even 100 000 miles, is this typical??

any advise would be greatly appreciated!
Karol

 

Multiple random codes are usually a symptom of a dying battery. Those are some unusual codes for an 80k mile car too boot. How old is the battery?

Your alternator issues are shocking and unheard of. I assume these were not replaced under warranty or by an Acura dealer. If they were, then you have a strong case for a lemon law suit.

Your head unit and DVD player are separate entities. If the navigation system cannot read the disc and the disc is clean, you likely need a new DVD unit which goes in the trunk. eBay has many for much cheaper than a repair would cost.

Good luck!

 

Check the battery. We have also proper winters here in Finland
Last winter i had issues almost like you, AWD and EGR codes. I was prepared to clean those EGR`s but fixed that thing only by changing very dirty air cleaner. I thought that it was changed in last service but it wasnt (i think so because it was totally clogged).
So, basics first.

 

I forgot there was a p0171 in there....

I remember when the first alternator died it was also spitting out all kinds of failures before it stalled in the middle of a busy road, during a winter storm and of course the hazard lights were in-operational.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the alternator, the car is completely stock, there is no extra load on it, I currently have the 4th one installed (last weekend), we'll see how long it lasts... even if it dies during warranty its still a pain in the ass with towing, missing work etc. the units installed are Bosch and its done by local shop. (does lemon law applies to?)

The battery was changed when the OEM alternator died so its not even 3 years old. I think I'll get it tested at interstate batteries. I was wondering why the exhaust codes keep popping out and not anything else? I mean they are not all that random....

any other easy things I can verify before digging into EGR stuff? I'll change the air filter (have a new one in the trunk but it so tham cold!) gas cap issues? any way to test that? any other ideas?



about the DVD player, I tried brand new DVDs and CD's it keeps spinning it but not reading it and after a minute or two it spitts them out... this is not a navigation issue (works fine) but the head unit with 6 disc changer that I would hate to dig into...

 

Hey Karol, seems your experiencing some very typical growing pains. As a matter of fact, these codes are not uncommon at all and a battery is not going to fix your issues.

First off: there have been many issues with a/m alternators. Ditch the Bosch and get a re-man DENSO. The OE alternator is DENSO. Not saying only factory replacement will work, but some a/m alternators are junk.

Second: the P0174 stored (there is a PCM update, the dealer has to address this)

Third: the p0401/p0404/p0171 EGR and fuel system lean codes...there is a bulletin on this as well>replace EGR valve and fuel injectors. You can get away with just replacing the EGR valve but eventually (way down the road) it will come back and seeing that you already are seeing the p0171 (fuel system lean condition on bank 1, it is recommended that you replace all 6 injectors. This is caused by the fuel injectors that have a re-design that changes the spray pattern and decreases carbon build-up around the EGR valve.The injectors are pricey, labor around 1 1/2-2hrs.

Fourth: Your AWD message is coming on because of your CEL. It is designed to disable when suspected powertrain damage could occur.

Fifth: Your CD changer needs to be either replaced or sent out for repair. A search on here should find you the info. Believe it's built by Clarion...

 

I was chatting with member FN P90 today and his RL had nearly identical codes. It was a bad battery cell and alternator. All cured. FWIW his RL is now north of 350k miles. Other than tranny, brakes,tires and this...the car looks fresh and runs fine.

 

I will preface my comment by acknowledging your thorough knowledge of Acura systems and experience as a technician. Your input is appreciated here, and there is no offense intended.

With that said, this comment is ignorant. To say that it can't be an issue is foolish and the reason why no one trusts dealerships. Just because the last time a member came here with a slew of codes, you said it wasn't the battery, and you were right, doesn't wipe away the 7 years of documented issues that have been caused by a bad or low battery.

 

Haha...and it's funny how so many people will replace their battery first because someone on here tells them they need to before any real diag is performed and then when that doesn't fix it, they take it to a shop where they will gladly throw 3 of the same alternators on and not blink an eye. Then finally, when they have thrown out hundreds of dollars chasing down the real issue they will end up at the dealer and hopefully the right guy gets ahold of it because there are hacks everywhere including dealers. There are a slew of codes that will set because of a low battery charge. These are EGR and lean condition codes and are not going to come on and go off while driving followed by the SH-AWD going into limp mode while driving because of a dying battery. I also never said I was a dealer tech. I'm just a fellow RL owner and fan like most of you on here.

 

Sorry, my assumption was uninformed, and I stand corrected. May I ask how you know so much about these cars? You have far more technical expertise in your answers than anyone else who has posted here since I got here, and I can't imagine that it all came without some amount of training on Hondas.

 

I'll tell ya, there are well documented solutions around here... an it never fails that when we try to help someone a member like Sollex wants to always debate it.

So instead of starting with a simple battery and possibly an alternator (all well documented on this board), the suggestion goes to replace the injectors, possible powertrain damage, and an egr valve.

I mean really? injectors, and power train damage, when its known that a battery also causes false codes. So instead of simple low cost fixes like a damaged plug/wire or the rear diff or it may need a fluid service, you have power train damage.

If you arent a service writer Sollex you missed your calling.

 

I never said powertrain damage is or has occurred, simply stating that the AWD is being disabled because an emissions related code has set, what Honda likes to classify as powertrain damaging misfires and the like. The OP simply wanted a place to start, this in my opinion is where I would start if it was mine.

 

Someone out there stated that I keep throwing new alternators in the car, its all done under warranty, Bosch provided new/free alternator even after warranty was over. labor was under warranty, or Bosch paid the shop, not sure-don't care.


So today I went to interstate batteries, battery puts out over 600 cranking amps. all electrolyte was checked. no issues.

after they were done my codes cleared even though they used a power supply thru the OBD plug so nothing got reset. might be a coincidence though...


what would be the next easiest, most logical step?

 

Well, to be honest, many, many members have had their battery tested, it "passed", and a new one fixed their codes. Enough CCAs to start an engine and enough sustainable current after starting to power everything in the RL (not to mention overcome a faulty alternator) are not equal. 3 years is on the high end of the average for an RL battery. It's not unheard of, but many batteries don't get to 3 years.

 

I want to help ya OP, but it seems like you are destined to follow the codes.

Agreed 007, I just took out an Optima which is still working fine in another vehicle.

I'll stay sub'd to see where this goes.

 

First I want to thank you for ALL replies, as mentioned yesterday the codes went out yesterday and did not pop out today, I did 90 miles. As soon as they pop out again I'll be posting here what exactly popped out, The lean cylinder code came out when we had -45 F. so I am interested if it pops out again.

Also this forum is great! Heavy, I just read yours about the arm rest issue (to bad pics are gone) I have arm rest and driver seat torn. but not doing nothing about it for now.

Also my trunk lid has spots that look like paint bubbling , the paint eventually cracks open and leaves a bare metal spot, kind of like rust but there is no rust. the metal looks to be some alloy. Is that common?

 

yeah, facebook effed up the pics with one of their upgrades and we cannot edit.

 

update:

So far no codes popped out. I would expect them to come up by now, wonder if cleaning the battery posts helped, since thats the only thing done to the car at interstate batteries (other than checking the battery itself).

I will keep you updated!

 

 

Guys, it looks like my caliper is binding, stuff smells and rim Is warm. About 6mo ago I had the same problem after changing brakes, I took the caliper out, piston and boot off. Cleaned itbut did not found any issues. I use some autozone pads so I filed the pad "ears" a litlle bit (they were tight fit) All was good for a while and now this shit again its a driver side rear... any suggestions? Can hope the bearing wont get damaged

 

there is some preventive maintenance like changing the fluid, freeing the pads, and greasing the slides.

Once the actual piston starts to hang its really a slippery slop that usually ends in a replacement.

 

fluid was clean, not cloudy, no air in system, i filed the ears and did use the grease on them. Today in the morning it was binding (per my previous post from the companys shithouse), now I got back home, rim cold to touch, measured the rotor temp with my IR and it was slightly warm but same temp as the other side. Looks like another intermittent problem

 

i had alot of lights on this winter TCS/AWD most of the time on days when it was -25 or below. battery was strong but as soon as it warmed up after work car started just fine and no lights

 

So problem returned twice so far. I was hoping the old codes are gone after battery disconnect but when check engine came up all the old codes from 2013 came back so I don't know which one is the main culprit. Is there any way to remove the old codes from memory? will a cheap OBDII scanner remove these or do I need to go to a dealer? I want to see which code is coming up repeatedly, some might have popped out due to negative 45 degrees, but at this point all the old codes are brought back every time check engine/check awd comes up. I am willing to get an OBD2 scanner if it will reset it.

Also the rear driver caliper is making noises again, but its not permanent, sometimes no noise is present, I'll measure the rim temp and its fine, other times is whistling and the rim is hot. Since I took the whole caliper apart last year, removing the piston and boot and did not find any problems do you gentlemen have any other ideas? I did not took apart the brake hose nipple should I flush the fluid? is any other area able to cause such issues? I mean the caliper is solid mounted and the rotor is on a bearing, would a bad bearing or something like that cause a problem of that type/?

 

Hello Karol, I have the same symptoms/codes you are describing, and a friend who is a master-tech at Acura. He services my car ever so often. He told me pretty much what sOLLEx said. According to him the injectors are pretty pricey, so get your wallet ready. I've noticed that when the codes pop up, they go away after you turn the car on and off a few times. I usually turn the car on/off until the SWD light comes off. As for the radio, mines does the same thing as well but I rarely use it, I have my ipod connected through an aux setup.

I should be getting my work done for the CEL's in the next month or so (I will update when it happens). Its tough, just trying to fix one problem at a time. For right now the car is waiting for the suspension to be repaired (see my build thread for that ordeal).

Best of luck.

 

Next time it pops out I'll try to "power cycle" multiple times and see if they go away as you described.

1. Can this condition make my car INOP in the near future?

2. Can a generic obdII scanner erase these codes?
(it just brings back the old messages stored in NVRAM somwhere, and I would like to see what pops out during normal temps, when it is not negative 45)

3. Also what kind of AUX setup do you recommend? my aux setup right now is a smart phone and ear buds (radio developed very poor reception) I am willing to loose the XM radio but I would hate to go thru removing the head unit, installing aux switches and pulling 12V wires.

4. I'll take the break assembly apart again as soon as I recover from surgery and inspect for how the rotor surface is worn.

5. what about the PCM update for code 174? I need software updated im guessing? thats a trip to the stealer and how much $$??

One more time thanks everybody for your input!

 

I use a USA SPEC PA15ACUXL. It also comes with an aux option for none i-pod options.

 

I just had this come up the other day. I also had my alternator replaced a month ago and battery. I unplugged the battery to reset and it hasnt come up again yet. If it persist, I'll have the mechanic look if I need to change my EGR and injectors. I hope its not just a weak battery. It happened when I was in the drive through just waiting for my burgers.

 

all good except the price

 

Guys, would I be able to erase all codes with a generic amazon OBT2 scanner? shit popped up again today, I need to erase codes to see what is repeatedly popping so I can take care of that.



Saturday I dealt with brakes, files and dremels whent to use on caliper, brackets and pads. than serious 3000F lube and disk spray. if it still binds than I give up!

 

It's a good idea to have a scanner to check/clear codes on your own. Make sure the one your looking at supports CAN. Most cheaper older scanners will not be able to clear codes on the car if the vehicle uses Controller Area Network. Also, you should go into DIAG mode within the navi unit and clear all stored diag messages in there. Key on: hold down menu/map guide/cancel buttons together and get into the XM hip and you can clear messages within there.
As far as the rear brakes, a proper cleaning of caliper, pad shims and lubing of slide pins should be enough for the average brake job. Those pads should be free enough inside the caliper and not binding up at all unless you have a stuck/bent slide pin or a piston that is going bad. I would definitely flush out the brake fluid if you haven't already. Your brake fluid should be done every 3 years and is good practice since those bleeders on the calipers can seize up over time and may sheer off if a lot of force is applied to break them loose. This is very common in areas where a lot of road salt is used in the winter. Take a look under a 10 year old car from NY versus FL, night and day.

 

thanks for the reply, I'll try to clear the error codes. I have another thing going . On Sunday I was suppose to even out my tire pressure (after crazy negative 45F winter) and I noticed my front driver side tire sidewall is completely split open so vinyl is showing. Let me clear things up - the outer rubber is cut open completely... it almost looks like there is a tire tube inside (some sort of tire lining?) So I am trying to get new tires, I currently have michelins, There is plenty of thread left (8/32 or something), tires are 4yo but they all have dry rot for some reason. Michelin agreed to cover 65%. The new michelin mxm4 run about 240-250 each (number uno in consumer report) but no one has access to brand new ones and I tried two places and the tires were from 16th week of last year. SO I refuse to pay full price for a 1yo tire ( I know Im getting a nice discount but thats for another reason) so the michelin distribution centers in IL have old tires so Im trying to source a newer one from the manufacturing facility. Not sure how it will go (discount tire waiting on phonecalls)... I got my spare on (rotated back to front and spare to back) but I am pushing the limit with the remaining 3:/

Tires have barely 30k on them....

 

update in case anyone is reading this. no one in the chicagoland area was able to source a michelin mxm4 newer than 1 year old (16th week of 2013) so I had to go for it. Michelin covered 65% of new tire cost. and also I have the nice michelin warranty (for 3 years they will tow me for 150 miles if I get two flats etc)

Over the weekend:
1. I tried to clean the error codes, I was unable to! I got into the secret 3 button menu but for some reason I could not comprehend how to clean them.
does any one have additional info on that? please share!

2. cleaned the egr valve- wasn't even sure how it looks but found it right away, easy job, there was a lot of carbon buildup and removing it from the innerds was difficult but doable. Anyhow since the valve had so much build up I prolly need to clean the hole system. I was unable to find any instrucables online. Does anyone know about forum or youtube instructable for our generation RLs?

3. my headlights were kinda dull so I decided to refresh them. In a local Autozone I was contemplating between mothers kit that includes a waxing ball and a more expensive 3M kit that includes a pad for your drill but also has masking tape and whatnot in the package, since the 3M kit had a 15 bucks mail in rebate and it is a reputable brand I went with it. Results amazed me. I skipped the 500 grit. I took my time and the process took a couple of hours but it was well worth it - would not attempt this with one of them hand sanding kits - not worth it.


pictures bellow:

 

 

oo7spy, did you do your EGR cleaning yet? I know in 2011 you were planning on it when you pass 100k miles?

everything I see online is for 1gen RL's...



PS> week passed with no codes...

 

Nice cleaning. It appears that the EGR code was accurate.

There are very few videos on servicing the RL, but Honda used versions of the J35 engine on many of their models. Many of the TL performance mods will work on the on RL and tutorial videos exist.

 

1. Damnit!!!! got check emissions again after 3 weeks, took the valve out, washed it (was mostly clean) I will have to go thru the system cleaning but have no clue how, the channels from the valve seem to go underneath the front head?

2. Also did diff/transfer case/trans/ engine oil. Did diffs 2 years ago but this is always a b**ch, took me about an hour to just level the car.
I have the tiny wallmart ramps and 2.5ton jack with stands so I'm under the car with about 2 inches of room, no elbow room at all so I had to use the jack on the ratchet to loosen/tighten all the drains. The soap pump is pain too...
also noticed my transfer case to trans surface is kinda wet . Transmission oil was dirty but now my low rpm 5 gear grind (lock up?) went away! I did the 3x flush since at 92k miles I might have had the original trans oil.
I do recommend filling thru the dipstick tube, one less bolt to worry about, also don't have to bother with leveling, just throw 2.7qts in than pull the car down to flat ground and top of as needed. (don't have to level the car 3 times when doing 3x flush)
Be careful with autozone magnetic engine drain bolts - after a year my oil pan is stripped for 3 years before used stock bolt and never had problems

Any tricks for the oil pan drain strip? I used some gas line teflon tape, so far no leaks but I will have to change oil eventually. I don't really trust mechanics to drill and retap - this is a large bore to tap free hand. Maybe drain thru oil filter refill run and drain again - sort of like trans?


3. Also changed the spark plugs, someone here mentioned in a different thread of using two short extensions instead of one long for the back - two 4inchers work great (white dusting but no buildup, no anode wear no cathode wear) - no issues what so ever. BTW at 92k and 9 years the original spark plugs looked fantastic - there was no need to change them but since I already had a new set I did it. I used NGK laser irridium - looked the same as OEM.