FairfaxRL

I have noticed that almost everyone on this site has a Passport 8500 hardwired. Can anyone with this detector give me some feedback as to how it works and is it worth it? Everything I have read says that by the time you hear the alarm it't too late and you have already been detected.

Mike_TX

No no no no. Wrong!

As with any detector, a laser alarm is usually just notice that you've been had. That's because the laser is so focused that you generally don't get an alarm unless your specific car has been clocked. At least you know what got you.

BUT ... for all the radar sources, the escort/Passport is golden. I have been using them for 25 years or more, and I've never gotten a ticket during that time. I've gotten LOTS of advance warnings that allowed me to check my speed and slow down if necessary, but they have saved my bacon so many times I couldn't even begin to count them.

Do they work? ABSOLUTELY. I wouldn't leave my driveway without mine.

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GoHawks

What you need to understand is that driving with a detector doesn't make you immune. You need to take the time to understand the detector and how it alerts you.

To expand on what Mike has said.

Radar is more detectable because the signal can travel long distances, even though you have to be relatively close (I can't remember the distance) for the police officer to get an accurate reading. Additionally the police have to make a visual identification so that they know who they are targeting. I have caught Ka band as far away as two miles, and K band as far as 1 mile.

That said, instant on radar can be equally as deadly as Laser. With Instant-on, the police officer has the radar gun turned off. He's usually hiding and as you get near, he immediately turns on "pulses" the radar gun at you, and you're caught.

I follow a couple rules when driving.

1. Always make sure that there is someone up ahead of you. That way, if Instant-on is being used up ahead, when the car in front of you is targeted, you're detector should receive the signal and give you warning. With instant-on, it'll be a brief warning and then it'll go silent, but at least you've been warned.

2. Always be careful speeding at night as it's easier for them to hide, but as mentioned before, always make sure there is someone (sometimes referred to as a "rabbit") in front of you. If it's dark, and there is no one else on the road, then you're best bet is to not speed!

I have owned Escort (Passport) products for years (8500 in the Land Cruiser and the new 9500i in the RL) and they've more than paid for themselves. I did receive my first ticket in over 15 years last summer driving through Wisconsin. I got caught with instant-on. I was driving 21 over the limit around midnight. There was no one else on the road, and as I reached a crest in the road, I was nailed by a Wisconsin State Trooper. If there was a car up ahead of me, I would have caught the residual when that car was targeted, but since there was no traffic, it was me who was caught. I ignored rule #2 above and I paid for it. Literally.

Mike_TX

Good point on the instant-on radar, GoHawks. Much like laser, chances are you won't get enough warning to avoid it. No detector is foolproof.

And while we're at it, it might be worthwhile to remind that radar detectors are useless against police clocking speed from aircraft, or those few places where speed is calculated on the ground using a stopwatch and marks on the road.

But the vast majority of police agencies use always-on K or Ka band radar, and detectors are a valuable "countermeasure" against those police who try to trap you on long downhills, or long straight stretches, etc. where your speed is likely to drift above the limit.

No offense intended, but I feel running 21 over the limit, at night, is a risk in several respects, and I'm pretty sure you weren't too surprised to get stopped.

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RL06tech

That's because the smokies out west are too busy eating donuts to use instant on! Although I can attest to being saved countless time with my radar detectors , I have been caught on a few occasions with instant on. I live in Wisconsin where real crime is a rarity and where cops spend most of their time excercising their speed measuring devices. All carry radar and vascar and the more enthusiastic ones use laser plus one of the other 2! One thing to note is that there is a way to beat laser. Laser blockers work like a charm (I've proven it on multiple occasions). Note Beltronics and escort are the same company and sell the same products under different names. I wanted an incorporated system and the only one available in my area was the bell RX75 which is the same as the passport SR7. On both systems the laser blockers add about 500 dollars to the price (total around 1500) The system is invisible and the head unit fits perfectly in the coinbox area without compromising its operation. The speaker fits inside the center tunnel area. Radar detection range is fierce and not bested by any unit on the market The radar antenna is huge but fits perfetly on the metal part of the bumper behind the cover. It's expensive but for a guy like me with a long record its worth every penny! Its also priceless when you get shot with laser from the front and then from the back because the cop can't get a reading on your "stealth" car!

FairfaxRL

Excellent information, thank you all! A few more questions, do you all find that they radars and lasers are being used on the freeway or mostly on surface streets. If they are used on the freeway is it mostly Highway Patrol sitting on an onramp shooting down at the road? Also, is it worth it to hardwire the unit and where is the best place to put it?

Since I'm a new RL owner and all of you seem quite knowledgeable, one more questions if you don't mind. How have you done the TC and OK nav hacks, what is the TC hack, (the OK I have figured out)?

BTW- for anyone reading this who is considering the RL but looking at other cars, the RL is AWESOME! I had an '05 TL previously, but wanted AWD and traded up. The RL is not quite as sporty, but superior in every other way! I also test drove a BMW 328 AWD, the Infiniti M35 AWD and the new '07 Infiniti G AWD and the Acura offered much more than any of above mentioned cars. The fit and finish is far superior, especially when compared to the Infiniti's, the cabin is much quieter, the motor is more refined and the overall ergonomics and design is much more functional.

Mike_TX

You can find radar and/or laser on any road - freeway, highway or neighborhood streets. It just depends on where the cops decide to set up on any given day.

You can encounter radar from stationary or moving cars. At least for now, laser has to be used from a stationary position.

The TC (trip computer) and OK (okay screen on Nav) hacks are TL mods, and aren't available for the RL.

Since you have "Fairfax" in your screen name, I have to wonder if you're in VA. Remember detectors are illegal there and they can and will confiscate them.

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FairfaxRL

Thanks for the info and heads up about Fairfax, VA. My town is in Marin County, CA and as far as I know detectors are legal in CA...hopefully!

sotiri

With my Valentine V1, I have had some success with getting early warning on laser.
Its a matter of getting a scattering of the infra red laser beam, which as anyone who have a V1 has experienced, sometimes the LCD displays of the navigation systems triggers the laser alert, and so do some red neon signs,
IMO, the best detector out there is the Valentine.
never failed me, and always upgradeable.

kirbyflorida

I agree on the Val 1.

RL06tech

I have had the opportunty to use the Val1 and the escort 8500 simultaneously. The Val 1 and the escort 8500 offer essentially identical performance except (of course) for the arrow system. If you are going to spend the cash on a val1 you might as well spend a little extra cash and buy a "proffesional" system. If that is too steep an 8500 is a better buy since its cheaper and offers the same performance (sans arrows). Another option is a passport but it goes through batteries like there is no tommorow (I have one for rentals).

RL06tech

BTW, Va is the only state where detectors are illegal. They are also illegal in DC (not a state) and in Canada. They are illegal on semis in every state by federal law, thus, radar detector detectors AKA VG2.

sotiri

I'll trust C&D's side by side, no offense, but C&D side by side shows V1 rules.
Also, those arrows really DO work, and the DO help, especially when you are tracking multiple radar sources.
The advanced logic mode is so good, that I use it and dont worry about the filter missing real radar while filtering out door openers and junk detectors.

neuronbob

Another V1 fan here. Once you use the arrows, you can't possibly go back to another system. The arrows are absolutely NOT a gimmick.

GoHawks

No offense taken. You play and you risk paying. In reality is was a long straight stretch of road. I had no one to blame but myself, and I was angry with myself for getting a little too cocky and careless.

As for the V1 vs. Passport. It becomes a religous discussion. Over at a speedtrap forum I frequent, there are a whole bunch of radar geeks who will debate this endlessly. THe V1 camp extolls all the same things minetioned here. Sensitivity, arrows, etc. Keep in mind that the sensitivity comes at a price, especially in urban areas where you can get a ton of falses.

The Passport camp raves about how good the detectors are at filtering out false signals, which makes the detector more valuable since you're less likely to begin tuning out the detector as could happen with a detector that falses too much. The Passports obviously don't have the arrows, but Mike Valentine won't be able to leverage that feature exclusively in the near future. I read that his exclusive patent will expire in a year or two, and then the gap will narrow.

Truth is that either detector will give you mor ethan adequate warning if you use it judiciously.

sotiri

'Sensitivity, arrows, etc. Keep in mind that the sensitivity comes at a price, especially in urban areas where you can get a ton of falses.'

Not with the full logic mode on the V1's of recent.
I have the second to last revision, and in the full logic mode, the only time the falses get reported is when I am in front of the door opener, and thats because its so strong, it will let it through as a precaution.

lumpulus

Ahh, a subject I hold near and dear...Having grown up with a father in LE(State Trooper) and many friends "on the job" I consider myself an armchair expert...

First off, check out www.motorists.com This is the group that was partially if not fully responsible for getting the 55MPH speed limit abolished. They even have a Washington Lobbyist that works against the system regarding unjust Speed Enforcement and getting red light cameras banned in cities. They will also pay for your speeding ticket if you fight it and lose after you've been a member for one year.(this benefit alone makes it worth it to join.)

Speed radar and lidar enforement has nothing to do with safety anymore and everything to do with revenue generation. If everyone fought every speeding ticket they got the courts would become overcrowded and the system would change or break down, but too many people just "bend over" and pay the fine, even if they are "not responsible".

gohawks makes some excellent points, and I'll add something I think will help.....

If you do get pulled over, be polite, and respectful, but deny, deny, deny.
NEVER admit to anything, nor try to argue your case on the side of the road.
When the cop asks, "do you know why I pulled you over?", say "No sir, I don't"
I always add, "do I have a tail light out?"

Always fight a traffic ticket. I've been caught redhanded and beat the ticket in court many times.

GoHawks

I agree about being polite, I was pulled over by a Wisconsin State Trooper who I didn't realize was pacing me from behind. He comes up to the car and asks why I can't drive 65mph (posted speed limit).

We were up with the family in Milwaukee all day, and driving home. I had just passed a slow group of cars and settled into the middle lane when he pulled me over in an unmarked unit. Even at the time I didn't think I was speeding, but I most likely went up to above 75mph in order to pass.

The following conversation took place...

Trooper: Any reason you can't drive 65?
Me: No sir, I didn't realize it. It's been a long day, the kids are tired (they were sleeping in the back), and we're just trying to get home. I was just trying to pass some slower traffic.
Trooper: [looks at my license, and then at the kids sleeping in the back] Is this your vehicle?
Me: Yes sir
Trooper: If I let you go, is there any reason why I can't trust that you'll do the speed limit the rest of the way?
Me: No sir, not at all
Trooper: Because if I give you a citation, it'll be $xxx (I don't remember the amount).
Me: Yes sir, I understand, THANK YOU
Trooper: Be careful

THe second time, was a couple years ago and I'm sure I was paced as well. I later found out it was a speed trap where one guy times cars and then radios a pack of waiting squads with the description of the vehicle.

After the cop asked for license and proof of registration, he tells me that he has to give me a ticket, the conversation goes like this from there...

Me: Officer isn't there any consideration? My record is clean.
Cop: When was the last time you got a speeding ticket?
Me: over 16 years ago, you can obviously check it
Cop: I have to give you a ticket, my supervisor is the one who called you in.
Me: But there's no consideration? Come on.
Cop: Let me go radio in my supervisor

He starts walking to his car and then stops, turns around and says...

Cop: I tell you what I'll do. You have a tinted license plate cover which is technically illegal. I'll give you a ticket for that. It's not wa moving violation, and if you go to court and with proof that you removed it, unless the judge is in a bad mood, he'll dismiss the ticket. I'll then give you a warning on the speeding. THis way I get to give you a ticket (because of his supervisor), and you should turn out OK.

Me: That would be great, THANK YOU.

He even shook my hand when it was all said and done. Went to court and I didn't even have to submit proof. Judge just asked me if I removed it and I said yes (Which I did).

Moral of the story is that when pulled over, odds are that you're going to get a ticket and there's no use arguing your position. Just be polite and appeal to the cops kindness. In many cases it works. My brother is just the opposite, he usually is kind of a dick with them and he NEVER gets let off.

With my last one on going 21 over, the trooper wasn't even interested talking. When I asked for consideration, he immediate response was "Not for 21 over".

I really couldn't argue t. Like I said, I was angry with myself more so.

I eventually got it plead down from a $285/6 point violation (21 over), to a $175/3 point (14 over) violation.

lumpulus

Yup, they will always play, "Let make a deal" because they still get their conviction, you still get points and pay some kind of fine, and your insurance still usually goes up.

I've found the easiest way out for most is to negotiate a "defective equipment" charge with little or no reduction in the fine, but no points...this way insurance doesn't get affected.

LOL I was just driving back from the dentist on 95N in the Boston area and blew by a MA Statie sitting in the on ramp/off ramp area at about 85 mph....my detector never went off, and he never even looked up.

Mike_TX

This is So right. It's a multi-billion-dollar business.

You don't have to look any further than the fact that the traffic flow (85% or more of the traffic) is consistently at 10-20mph over the speed limit on any freeway in any city. What that tells you is that the speed limits are being kept artificially low so the municipalities and states can rake off some traffic fine money whenever the treasury gets low.

Traffic enforcement always makes me think of the old "Wild Kingdom" type shows, where a huge herd of wildebeest or antelope is flowing by and a lioness hides in the weeds and watches. When she gets hungry, she gets up and runs down one of them. Just like the cop, picking off a hapless driver who is just running with "the herd".

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lumpulus

The most obvious tools for this are Red Light Cameras, no cop needed to write the ticket.
Problem is, in most states the "violator" has a right to face their accuser.

The camera companies usually install them for free, preferring instead to take a percentage of the revenue generated.

Red light cameras in the name of safety backfired in a major way recently because rear end collisions increased at intersections with cameras because of two reasons...


1. The municipality shortened yellow light intervals to increase violations.

2. When people found out there were cameras, they started jamming on the brakes when the light went yellow.

RL06tech

Not to be contrarian but the arrows are useful only in a non urban situation. In an urban area with numerous reflective objects the arrows are essentially useless. Also the V1 will simply not shutup. I found it extremely annoying without finding any additional cops or providing any range advantage. To make matters worse the constant chatter just leads you to ignore it. Are the arrows cool, yes. Are they truely usefull, well, not really. I would trade arrows for laser blockers any day of the week. BTW the laser blockers are also detectors thus providing any detector equipped with them an exponentially improved laser detection area front AND back plus they will render laser guns useless >90% of the time, try that with a V1

Mike_TX

Whoever said the V1 following is almost a religious thing (much like Zaino IMO ) is right. The Escort and Valentine fans will still be arguing over which is best when the sun cools down.

But I've also heard from owners that the V1 falses too much. In fact, that was mentioned in some of the reviews I've read, too.

As for the arrows, I guess I've never cared a lot where the radar is - just that it's out there somewhere and I'm a potential target. I mean, am I missing something, or why does it matter if I'm getting zapped from the left or right or straight ahead ... the bottom line is I'm getting zapped and I'd better make sure I'm not speeding!

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sotiri

in chicago, and the outlaying subs, having the arrow and number count helps.
I cant tell you how many times I get one signal, see a cop in front in the oncoming traffic, I pass him and I have a signal telling me front, and its a trap up ahead.
Or having cops front and rear, or watching a cop pass in oncoming traffic and then see him hit the radar from the rear cause he has mutli directional arrays.
but hey, some like vanilla and some like choloate.

gdevine

Can anyone recommend a non hardwired detector? I don't want to mess with hardwiring the unit and I might want to use it in another vehicle. Also do detectors scream if the radar is pointed behind you?

Talk about radar traps, I saw three weekends in a row on Hwy 99 Southbound between Modesto, ca and Turlock, CA a CHP on a cycle in clear sight to the side of the road with instrument pointed towards oncoming traffic. You can't see him too far down the road because you come down from a slight incline. But the real trap is 1-2 miles further down the road is another CHP on his cycle doing the exact same thing. Obviously after you passed CHP#1 and you didn't get nailed, you figure the coast is clear and cars pick up speed. CHP#2 is always nailing someone. They were gone for a month then I saw them again last weekend paying themselves.

GoHawks

Passport Solo is a cordless, but quite honestly I wouldn't bother. Hardwireing it is really pretty easy, or you can just plug it in the power outlet.

jaehshim

i've owned my valentine 1 for 3~4 months, and i want to know how to use it - -

i mean i even hardwired it and i know how to read some signals, but because it always catches automatics doors of the buildings all the time and never a single cop, how do you val 1 owners distinguish that???

maybe the location i live in (ann arbor, MI ,Northern NJ, NYC), cops don't have radars on.

can someone explain each signals of val 1 and really how to distinguish well. i believe there's only 3~4 settings.

sotiri

First I use the full logic mode to just squash the false signals.
If your V1 is a year old-2 years old, the logic should be upgraded to a version that is good enuf for that.
Also, you can get into the guts of the V1 and customize the programming, go to V1 site and you can see how.
Use that to get to know your V1 better.

lumpulus

Why do you say that? I have had cordless detectors since CM started making them, and I have yet to get a ticket...when I remember to turn it on.

bluemule

In Shreveport, Louisiana, you can't safely go through a green light because of cross traffic running red lights. It's rampant there and easily the most blatantly dangerous activity I've ever seen in my travels...anywhere.

I suppose it's just as bad in other places, but as a country boy from the boonies and from out of state, that's peculiar behavior imho.

BTW, I've owned Escorts, but I vote for the Valentine V1. I've never hardwired mine because I never thought I'd keep the RL as long as I have. I think it's worthwhile at night to have the accessory placing the display in another location to keep the "curious/insecure/unable to accept responsibility for their own driving habits" off your tail at night.

80,000 + miles
'05RL with delivery June, 2005

black label

Exactly, the arrows have saved my butt in a small town with 2 or 3 cruisers wandering aimlessly. I also think the "bogey counter" on the V1 is extremely helpful in determining false alarms or more importantly when there is a speed trap at a known false alarm spot.

The other big benefit is the upgradability of the V1. If you buy the 8500 (which is definitely a good product) in 3 years if they come out with a better model, you have to start over. With the V1, you just get the upgrade.

lflorack

The scenario you talk about above is one of the reasons why the arrows on the Valentine1 are so important -- to me at least. With the arrows, you'd be able to tell that there were two cops -- on in front and one in back. The normal non-arrow detector would not indicate the two cops and you'd think the warning you were getting after the first cop was him -- not the second one waiting ahead. When I first got teh valentine1, i figured that this wouldn't happen very often and therefore the arrows wern't that important. I was wrong. It actually happens fairly often.

Everyone will choose their favorite detector and I'm sure the two were discussing are very good units. Choose teh feature9s) you like and get one. You can't really go wrong with either. I happen to like the Valentine1 and the arrows and boogey counter.

synth19

Some good info in this thread, but maybe it's just me... but I never have an urge to speed in the RL. It's a cruiser for me. I always notice that I get to work faster when I take the Z instead of the RL. heh

RL06tech

True, however, note that the passport 8500 also has a "bogey" counter which also gives the strength for each contact simultaneously. It's called the expert mode. Again the difference is only the arrows and the Val1's incessant "chatter".

RL06tech

True, however, note that the passport 8500 also has a "bogey" counter which also gives the strength for each contact simultaneously. Thus, if you have passed one and are approaching another one you will see their respective signals get weaker and stronger. It's called the expert mode. Again the difference is only the arrows and the Val1's incessant "chatter". And, of course, the price and the non availability of laser blockers on the Val1.

Mike_TX

I know you were being partly humorous, but I have to admit I always have an urge to "speed", no mater what car I'm in. (BUT - note that I don't mean to blast around recklessly, or to go 20 or 30 over the limit.)

If you were to do an experiment and tell me to go drive at a comfortable and safe speed on a given road without divulging its posted speed limit, and you covered up my speedometer so I couldn't see it, I'll almost guarantee you I'd be going 10 or 15 over its speed limit. And I don't think I'm unique in that regard. IMO, it's because the speed limits are just flat set too low.

So I have to be careful.

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sotiri

'Val1's incessant "chatter"'
Not on full logic. Also on the topic of laser jammers, some states make it illegal to have them, Il, being one of them, so I am not so dismayed in the lack of integration availability, and that may be good actually as I can put any AF jammer on, and pick the one that is upgradeable, and really does JTG, this way I dont get Smokey getting a reading on his laser guy indicating that I am jamming him- which more often they are able to see this from the gun.

lflorack

I've always run my V1 in "All Bogies" or "A" mode because I've been concerned with the potential loss of sensitivity or warning. I know the manual and website say that's not true, but I've still stuck with all warnings anyway.

So, as one who's using the "Advance Logic" or 'L' mode, do you run it that way all the time? If you do, did you notice a decrease in sensitivity on the expressways and highways where sensitivity is really important due to the faster closing speeds, etc?

In other words, can I trust "Advance Logic" mode both in the city AND on the highway?

sotiri

On the older versions, I had the same concern, but as I have a newer model, only a year old, it works perfect.
No loss, no missing of signals, in short, have confidence in it.
It doesnt change the sensitivity, all it does is know the difference between the signature of a door opener, which is usually X, and a radar gun.
Door openers are on X and K, but on neither do you lose sensitivity.
Trust it. It works.

lflorack

Great thanks.

I just checked my V1 serial number on-line to ensure I'm not behind in upgrades and I have the latest model too. So, I'll give it a shot!