bwarren2

I have been loooking at a number of 05 RL's in my area to get the best deal on a Silver or White RL. I came across a good used deal and spoke with the dealer (Not an Acura Dealer) and he disclosed this particular unit is a "Manufacturer Buyback" and provided me with the documentation associated with it. I was also told I could contact ACURA or any delaer to verify the work done on the car to repair it. The problem according to the paperwork I was given said the issues were a Dead Battery and Door Locks Cycling, both problems have been fixed now. I called my local dealer and gave them the VIN # and they confirmed 5 things had been replaced:

XM Unit, Speaker, Locks, Battery and Controle Module

I will also call the original dealer tomorrow and see what story I can come up with there and maybe get the original owners name. BTW the VIN # is early C0013XX. The Acura Svgc Mgr said he wouldn't be scared to purchase the car. I have also noticed a # of other "Manufacturer Buybacks" from AUDI and others show up on eBay, this seems to be fairly common now.

My question is, would I be a complete idiot to think about buying a car that has had known problems?

or

Would I be taking advantage of a good opportunity with an early RL that has had all the known issues repaired now? This woud certainly save some $$$ but is it truly worth it?

It seems feasible since this VIN # is early it experienced all the tech issues but they have been resolved. None of the problems seems to be significant. I'm not sure about the Control Module, I assume that's the ECM. I don't see an issue with replacing that, it seems most of the issues on the RL have been software and computer related. Again, I could be worng and a new ECM is a big deal. It wasn't in my A4 however as I upgraded teh ECM to increase HP.

Please reply and let me know if I should run away or continue exploring this oppty. Thx for your help, let me know if I missed anything. By the way the car has 4400 miles on it.

shs111

Great question you're posing, bwarren2. As far as I am concerned, the problems that have occurred in the RLs are nearly always software-related, and these problems have been addressed through control module replacements, software upgrades, etc. I think you have the opportunity to buy a great car, and hopefully at a great price. How much are they asking? And good luck with your decision. No question in my mind, the RL is the best car I've ever owned.

bwarren2

Thanks, it's roughly $37K. I guess one question I need to understand is if this would be indicated on my title. Manufacturer Buyback means Lemon. It sounds like Lemon is a harsh term for this car but it shows up on CarFax.

lsbuffs

I wouldn't have a problem buying this car if the price is right. $37K is way too high in my opinion. Not only do you have this history of the buyback from the original purchaser, but you also have 4400 miles. The pricing on brand new 2005 RLs has been as low as $39.9 to $41K.

I'd offer something in the low 30s and work up from there slightly as necessary.

bwarren2

$41K is as low as I can get on a Demo w comparable miles in my Region. I agree it shoudl be priced accordingly, however, it's already $4K less. If the title would be marked Lemon, I don't think I would ever buy it though. Thx for the feedback.

Steve C

IsBuffs is correct. These cars were wholesaling (used) for 39k a few mos back, and that was before Acura was offering their 2.5k incentive on new leftover purchases.

Sounds like you are purchasing this car at or a tad below wholesale. That in itself is no big deal. To add insult on injury, that lemon law title follows the car from here on in, (until someone "launders" the title).

It may be a great car, you certainly are doing all your homework. Just understand that when you go to sell it, you need to find someone like yourself who wont be afraid to buy it despite the circumstances of the car's title/origin.

Sadly, seems like Acura dealers are not holding on to these cars to resell it themselves as they are turned in by their former owners/leasers.

bwarren2

Thanks. I am getting conflicting info that the title will be labeled Lemon. If it is, and I have a feeling it will be, then it's not worth saving the $$$. As often as I trade cars, I'll have a hard time re-selling/trading. Thx

vp911

IMO, it may be a great deal; however, at $37k I would not buy it. I would buy it at maybe 34k.

erdoc48

Software 'gremlins' can be extremely hard to eradicate- I personally would not buy it. I'm sure Acura will fully warranty the car, but do you really want to take the risk of having to bring it back to the dealer on a regular basis for continued electrical problems? The technicians at Acura, although qualified, are not software nor electrical experts. Electrical problems can be very difficult to resolve.

dtrose

Run as fast as you can

Karl_in_Chicago

Say what??? If a dealer ever gave out my name to complete strangers I'd definitely be having some words; and woe be unto said stranger that actually tried to contact me.

vp911

Don't try to contact the person, they will be mad to begin with, but on top of that they will simply tell you it's POS. I just wouldn't buy it, especially at that price. Save yourself the hassle and get a new 05'. Or you can buy mine for $40,000

michaelbmenaker

IMHO, the "lemon" on the title and CarFax history is a deal killer. I agree with others that there are probably no "unfixed" problems with the car. It's the "lemon" designation that will most assuredly hurt your resale that's a deal-killer to me.

Buy a "leftover" '05 at the best price you can get. It's a great car.

vp911

When you go to sell the car, you will get crap for it being a lemon

hondamore

bwarren2,I think that a key issue is how long you intend to own the car. If you plan to keep the car for a long time (for example 7 - 10 years), then the buyback car may be a better deal for you. Of course, this is only if we assume that all of the "issues" have been dealt with and the car won't drive you crazy with problems. With Acura's history, I think that is an assumption that we can make. If you invest the $4000+ you save by buying the buyback car, you should be able to turn that into $8000 or more in the 7- 10 year time frame. It is unlikely that, in say 2015, that the lemon designation will cost you anywhere near $8000 in resale value since the car will only be worth maybe $15,000 or less at that time. If you are careful to keep all documentation from Acura regarding the reasons for the car being declared a lemon by it's previous owner and all service records showing those issues being corrected, then being up front with prospective buyers about how you bought the car will likely only cost you $1000 - 2000 at time of resale and you are money ahead.
If you plan to sell the RL in a couple of years, then you may find that the resale hit that you take from the lemon designation is greater than the initial savings and accumulated growth.
Before even considering the car, however, I would be sure that I was very comfortable with the functioning of all of the features of the car which were glitched enough to cause the lemon designation in the first place. A week-long test drive might be in order to really test out the car's reliability.

vp911

Keep in mind that if it was a lemon buyback, (depending on the state) the dealer had roughly 3 attempts to fix the car and the factory trained tech (regional rep usually) had an opportunity to repair it. How likely is it that they still fixed it after all that?

hondamore

bwarren2 mentioned that the car had a very early VIN suggesting that the glitches may have occured early in 2005 or even late 2004 which is long before the current successful "fixes" were available. It is possible that the dealer bought the car back many months ago, but waited until the fixes were proven to be reliable before placing the vehicle for sale again. It would be worth having the dealer give you the history of the problems and if they were a long time ago, then the fixes are more likely to be ok.

medrxman

There have been a lot of people with those issues. I wonder how many of them were offered a buy back ? I find it hard to believe that Acura bought back a car for the issues that had a TSB resolution. "BEWARE".

I would RUN, not walk fom that scenerio.

stingerbtry

There is no way a dealer would buy a car back for such small things in my opinion. Pay the extra couple grand and get a brand new one that has a clean title and history

WhitePearl_RL

2005 Acura RL BIN ~$38K

bwarren2

Thanks for everyone's fedback. I am going to pass on this RL. I trade cars too often and in the end the resale value would get dinged to much along the way. I have found a Celestial Siver/Taupe Demo for $2K more and will likely get that one. Im in the Southeast and the absolute lowest I can find is $39.5 for this car, a demo w 5K miles (owners car suppsoedly :-). Other delaers have told me to go buy that one becasue they can't come close on thier Demo's either. You guys think that's a good deal? I can always buy off eBay but if you dig in to the story's on sevral of those, they are also Manufacturer Buybacks. It's apparently more common than we would think.

vp911

Go for the demo.

CL6

$37,000 is wholesale on an 05 with 5,000 miles. Lowest price on new 05 was at a dealer in LA for something like $41,400.

Nobody has sold a new 05 RL for even $40,000. Demo models do not apply.

vp911

Check the sign-in thread. sale prices include: $40,300, $40,800, and a few other people had been ofered close to $40,500.

jehazel

Wait a minute here folks. The issues you listed were known issues which have been resolved now (anyone still having these troubles after the service bulletins??). This particular vehicle's owner might have been one of the squeaky wheels that got the service bulletins introduced in the first place.

That being said, if this is a "Manufacturer's Buy Back" then it is not a lemon and will not indicate as such on the title. If you have continuous problems with a vehicle, you generally have to go through some form of arbitration before you can file under the lemon law. This provides the dealer/manufacturer adequate opportunity to resolve the issues before taking it to the next level. If a dealer/mfg recognizes the issues as viable and doesn't think the customer will "put up with the problems" until they can research, develop, and implement a solution, then the manufacturer can offer to "buy back" the vehicle. If they buy back the vehicle then they can resolve the issues and then resell the vehicle. If they do not buy it back and it is found to be a lemon, then they have a different set of rules they have to play by and it is much more restrictive. I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to resell it or if they do they will have to advertise it as a "lemon" and not just a mfg buy back.

If you can make the deal sweet enough I would say go with the car! If it is under warranty and those were the only issues it had...it's as good as new and you should take advantage of the savings.

If you choose not to go with the car, please post contact information on the dealer selling it as someone else on these forums might be interested in it...

CL6

I personally confirmed the price with an LA dealer, and even then they had only one model left and this was 3 weeks ago. Many of those prices had not been confirmed. Was Destination included? I believe no prices unless I can confirm them.

lsbuffs

Sorry, that's not correct. There are a few that bought under this offer. (see below) I paid $40.3K OTD for mine from another LA dealership.
----------------------------
ONE WEEK ONLY ON 2005


We Appreciate the Opportunity to Earn Your Business!



Your Internet Purchase Price for the New Acura RL
is
$39,988.00
(MSRP is $49,670)
There is a lease out that can save you a lot more money please call me
Recognized as Car and Driver's Best Luxury Sedan, the RL includes a Voice Activated Talking Navigational Unit as standard equipment.
Starts September 17, 2005 & Ends September 23, 2005.
Must bring this ad in to get this price.
The above pricing includes destination and handling of $570,
wheel locks and splash guards.
CALL OR E-MAIL US NOW

Must Bring This in With you to get this Price
Daryl Wolters
Internet Sales Manager
Downey Acura
(562) 299-5202
or
(800) 245-7679

bwarren2

Jehazel, thanks for the feedback. However, this car will always have lemon on it with Carfax and other services. Even though I agree with your assessment, the resale value would suffer more than what I would save IMO.

VTR Motors in Macon GA has 2 of these, the SIlver had a bad block problem (stay away imo), the White was the one I was interested in. Look under Auottrader for the RLs', do a nationwide search.

Nabbs

I don't know about that.

I agree with Jehazel -- a mnfr buyback is vastly different from a car that was lemon'ed through arbitration. In fact I believe a "lemon" is declared by the state (each state has different rules), and generally requires that one problem on a new car was not corrected after 3 visits over a set course of time. In short, it is a decleration that the mnfr was unable to fix the problem or did not fix it to the satisfaction of the customer. Finally, when you go to arbitration you do so because both parties are unable to reach a conclusion (the owner wants the car bought back, the mnfr does not).

As such when a car is voluntarily bought back, it does not mean that the car was declared a lemon. A buyback can occure for any number of reasons: the owner wasn't happy with the color, or the owner wasn't happy he had to have his new car brought in for warranty work. In any case I fail to see how having the car listed as a buyback vs a lemon will effect resale or even the current value.

You are getting a car with a warranty and are still protected by the lemon law of your state -- I wouldn't nesc. pass it up or be scared off by it.

Finally, if you plan to trade it in to a dealer, I don't think they would give to poopies it was a buyback. A private party might care slightly -- but I know I wouldn't

Good luck either way.

vp911

I can see how it would affect resale - most people don't know the difference between a declared lemon buyback and just a mfgr buyback. Also, many mfgrs will simply buy back the vehicle after having the 3 repair attempts because they know they will lose in court or through arbitration.

Also, going through the BBB arbitration program doesn't always declare that it is a lemon. They have two types a "non-lemon" arbitration and a lemon law arbitration. They try to confuse the consumer between the two so the cars are bought back under the non-lemon - so the mfgr doesn't have to declare it as a buyback. I know several people (including myself) who were tricked into going the non-lemon route (I corrected my own case later down the line).

Also, many states do NOT cover used vehicles under the lemon law. Michigan for example ONLY covers new purchases - not used.

CL6

You paid $40,300 OTD for an 05 RL sold as brand new? This would mean you purchased it for about $37,700 plus taxes and fees. I do not believe that a dealer would sell a person off the street a car at this price which is over $6,700 below invoice.

lsbuffs

No, I paid $40,300 from a CA dealership. (out the door there for that price). Drove it back to Colorado and settled up with my Colorado taxes and fees once I got back.

Sorry for any confusion. The OTD in my example (while accurate) wasn't inclusive of taxes and fees.

jehazel

Have you run a carfax on this vehicle? Does it say anything on there in terms of the buy back or was that just a courtesy admission by the dealer? I don't know why that would show up on any official reports regarding that vehicle.

I went through the arbitration process with Chrysler back in 1996. I had bought a brand new car which stayed in the shop more than it did in my driveway. I had a stack of paperwork and the dealership admitting they had no idea how to fix it (various electrical problems and the dealer had replaced every component they could think of). Anyway, I ended up taking it to arbitration and I was denied restitution (buy the vehicle back) because the vehicle was not in for service the qualifying number of times for the same issue within the designated timeframe. The thing was, it was in for the same problem each time but since they logged it as a different component each time, it did not meet their requirements.

The GM knew I was not very pleased with the outcome and I informed him that I would be visiting with my attorney to pursue recourse under the Lemon Law. Within a week Chrysler flew someone down from Corporate and he met with me and the dealership and offered to buy the vehicle back for what I paid for it (minus a small mileage charge). They explained that this would allow them to correct the problems on their own time and then resell the vehicle. Whereas, if they were forced to buy it back under the Lemon Law they would be required to destroy the vehicle or would not be allowed to resell it in certain states.

CL6

Okay, so before taxes and fees for an 05? This is about as low as it could possibly be. I know someone quoted an email above but there has to be a catch. I talked with the Internet guy at Downey and 3 weeks ago they had only 1 05 RL left. So what's up?

vp911

I know in socal some of the dealers I had called back in June without negotiating offered $42,500 for the RL.

Nabbs

Well I just bought a brand new 05 RL today. It's a leftover, and with the incentives, less tax I was still over 40K. I had my friend who is a finance manager negotiating on my behalf, and was told the dealershit only made 700 bucks on my sale.

Again the price of my car may be misleading since I had a trade involved, but in short I am paying 23K out of pocket + my trade for a brand new Champagne/Black 05 RL. I should pick it up sometime next week.

Very excited about it!

-N

vp911

Congrats. What was the final price (without taxes) I know you said a little over $40, but am curious for an actual figure (if you don't mind that is).

Make sure you take pics and post them

Did you get any accessories? Might I suggest the first thing you do is get rid of the crappy stock tires and upgrade to the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S or the Pirelli Pzero Nero M&S tires - they make a big difference.

Nabbs

$42K less tax and title, and 19K for my accord (paid 21K at the beginning of the year), for a total of 23K out of pocket.

I'm waiting for the iPod hookup. It's gonna be tough to drive around a car with no iPod hook up I have the iPod in both cars.

vp911

Remember - the ipod hookup may NOT work with the 05' RL.

lsbuffs

Remember that Downey offer was third week of September, so not surprised that by mid to late October they only had one left. My sense was they were getting some great business after this, along with other area dealerships that had to get close to matching that offer. If I recall correctly, most of the big LA area dealerships had upwards of 20-30 05 RLs sitting on their lot at that time.

That's actually how I ended up with mine. Hadn't really considered I'd be able to realistically afford an RL, but saw this e-mail and pursued. I contacted Downey along with a few others, including one in N. Calif. Quite honestly Downey was slow to respond and I ended up dealing with South Coast in Costa Mesa. They started around $42K- something but I then showed them the Downey offer and one from Stevens Creek. After some discussion with their GM (well that's what they told me) they agreed to $40,300.

There are other threads where people dealt with Downey and got the $39.9K price. Nobody mentioned any catch, and there wasn't any catch with mine..included destination, no add-on fees..really no b.s. Was pretty simple and painless.