No RL orders/allocation for April
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
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definitely is the clientele. Here in NJ, the 525 or 525xi are like $500 - $600/month with some $$ down. Usually stripped down cars but people want the image thing. Same goes for the E class. I guess it works, they push a few thousand a month and here in the NJ/NY/PA area there are plenty on the road. I would imagine at least 70% leased or higher...
Originally Posted by geronimomoe
Might be due to the clientele as well. Perhaps people who get the BMW 5/7 , MB E/S class, etc. are the folks who want bling and can afford to have constant car payments.
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Originally Posted by geronimomoe
Might be due to the clientele as well. Perhaps people who get the BMW 5/7 , MB E/S class, etc. are the folks who want bling and can afford to have constant car payments.
Grape Expectations in the Boston Globe.
Racer
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
Here's a link to an interesting article on perception and price using wine tasting to make the point. I believe that the same concept is at play with Acura vs. the German marques. Very interesting article. Could this be part of Acura's plan in moving upmarket? Make people believe they are getting quality because they are paying for it?
Grape Expectations in the Boston Globe.
Grape Expectations in the Boston Globe.
As for "Make people believe they are getting quality because they are paying for it?", well there's that saying "You get what you pay for", which we've all heard and has been around for who knows how long...
Go Big Blue!
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From: Orlando, FLA
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Here's a link to an interesting article on perception and price using wine tasting to make the point. I believe that the same concept is at play with Acura vs. the German marques. Very interesting article. Could this be part of Acura's plan in moving upmarket? Make people believe they are getting quality because they are paying for it?
Grape Expectations in the Boston Globe.
Grape Expectations in the Boston Globe.
That also must be the reason a $20 bottle of wine tastes the same to me as a $80 bottle. I'm kind of a wine enthusiast also and I swear I can rarely see the coorelation between price and taste. I get into that argument with people more often then overpriced MB's. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,148
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From: Baltimore MD
Originally Posted by darth62
Don't you think it is a little early to conclude that the new "RL and TSX haven't been well received?" Neither is actually in the showroom yet and we have no idea how they will sell. The only indication I can see is lots of complaining on the net about the RL's nose, and few (more mild) objections to the TSX's 4-cyl engine.
Well, there has been complaining abou the TSX's engine from the day it hit showrooms, but the car has still sold like hotcakes. It seems that what enthusiasts on the internet think does not have immediate relevance for sales to the general public.
And, IMO, no chance to the RL is going to be likely to make the car a hotseller in the US. For one thing, AWD cars do not sell all that well outside the snowbelt. Out here in LA, probably the biggest car market in American, you can't even find AWD cars on most dealer's lots. The upside is that the RL is a low volume car and NOT critical to Acura's success.
Meanwhile, the MDX is a run away hit.
Acura should do fine with the MDX, TL, and TSX. And, that will keep them doing well.
I doubt the RL will sell, and I think longterm sales of the RDX will be disappointing. However, Acura's product line is in good shape otherwise.
Well, there has been complaining abou the TSX's engine from the day it hit showrooms, but the car has still sold like hotcakes. It seems that what enthusiasts on the internet think does not have immediate relevance for sales to the general public.
And, IMO, no chance to the RL is going to be likely to make the car a hotseller in the US. For one thing, AWD cars do not sell all that well outside the snowbelt. Out here in LA, probably the biggest car market in American, you can't even find AWD cars on most dealer's lots. The upside is that the RL is a low volume car and NOT critical to Acura's success.
Meanwhile, the MDX is a run away hit.
Acura should do fine with the MDX, TL, and TSX. And, that will keep them doing well.
I doubt the RL will sell, and I think longterm sales of the RDX will be disappointing. However, Acura's product line is in good shape otherwise.
I agree. I don't think the RL will ever be a good seller. At most it will be niche. The A6 is not a runaway seller. The GS isn't flying off dealer lots. The M has gotten it right. 5-series are almost a dime a dozen. For the RL to to have somewhat decent sales, Acura must substantially ramp up it's advertising dollars. Probably the bean counters have estimated that eventhough sales would go up it would be a pyrrhic victory because the dollars going into nifty adverts offsets the sales increase.
Instructor
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
I am quite sure Acura wants this car to finally shed its wallflower status, thus spending boatloads of dough on the MMC. I'm hoping they had a "Plan B" that will be rolled out to dealers, thus this (possible) delay.
For all I know, Acura's shipments of this car from Japan could have been delayed a few weeks for technical reasons. Dunno!
For all I know, Acura's shipments of this car from Japan could have been delayed a few weeks for technical reasons. Dunno!
They acknowledged from the beginning that the grille was very bold, "distinctive from a distance", and so forth so one would assume there is a possibility they may actually have a "plan B" forseeing a bad reception from the public, or at least something to make less radical the plastic part of the grille or whatever.
After all that investement on the MMC and after seeing the Chicago Auto Show survey results I'm sure the bean counters at Acura are pressing for some quick fixes... Maybe this is just wishful thinking
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Apparently this is an artist rendering of a TL....
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...ura.V8.500.jpg
The grille looks GOOD on it. So how could they have bothed the RL so badly, trying to force it into the RL design?
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...ura.V8.500.jpg
The grille looks GOOD on it. So how could they have bothed the RL so badly, trying to force it into the RL design?
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Time to "downgrade to a TL"? That looks GOOD. I hope the TL looks even remotely like that.
Some other news.....
Honda's ad agency creates a separate unit for Acura....it's about fracking time, as long as they do a better job advertising rather than this milquetoast approach taken by Acura in the past.
Some other news.....
Honda's ad agency creates a separate unit for Acura....it's about fracking time, as long as they do a better job advertising rather than this milquetoast approach taken by Acura in the past.
Instructor
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420-horsepower 4.8-liter V8 FR SHAWD RL 2010
hope this is not a repost.. 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125224
> $70K seems they want to compete with teh big dogs...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125224
> $70K seems they want to compete with teh big dogs...
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Time to "downgrade to a TL"? That looks GOOD. I hope the TL looks even remotely like that.
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by cai06
hope this is not a repost..
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125224
> $70K seems they want to compete with teh big dogs...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125224
> $70K seems they want to compete with teh big dogs...
*happy dance*
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Thanks cai06, I just found that link independently and was about to post it.
If that's the next RL, I am REALLY happy. REALLY, REALLY happy. I mean....
REALLY happy.
Don't worry, Tampa, I'll clean up after myself.
If that's the next RL, I am REALLY happy. REALLY, REALLY happy. I mean....
REALLY happy.Don't worry, Tampa, I'll clean up after myself.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Boston, MA
Looks good, but >$70k? Might as well buy an Audi S6 or a BMW 550i for $70k.
They can't sell a $50k car so they're going to try to sell a $70k car? It's like asking to borrow $10 and being turned down then asking to borrow $100.
For $70k it better have every tech gadget in the Honda/Acura arsenal and have a hand-crafted interior. It just doesn't make sense to me. A sticker of $60k with a true selling price in the high $50k range would be understandable.
They can't sell a $50k car so they're going to try to sell a $70k car? It's like asking to borrow $10 and being turned down then asking to borrow $100.
For $70k it better have every tech gadget in the Honda/Acura arsenal and have a hand-crafted interior. It just doesn't make sense to me. A sticker of $60k with a true selling price in the high $50k range would be understandable.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: SF/Colma CA
Even though the 2009 RL isn't supposed to arrive at showrooms until May (I think), I saw one in person in downtown San Francisco today. The car looks pretty badass in person, much better than I expected. I especially liked the back.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Granite State
I like the look, now that they are not showcasing that grille. Would I dish out 70K? I think not. Two years from now gas prices will probably be in the $5/gal range, so stepping up to a V8 doesn't make sense for me. Even with the cylinder deactivation, an 8 cyl with shAWD is going to be a thirsty beast.
Every time I hear the oil companies boast record profits for the quarter...
.
Every time I hear the oil companies boast record profits for the quarter...
.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: OH
Saw the '09 RL at our local auto show last week...I was in the camp who did not rush to judgement and wanted to see it in person first, and now that I have....well, that is one fugly car. It made me go in a completely different direction car wise and I have a new 4 dr GTI w/ DSG in the garage for daily duty and may go with a later model vette as a 2nd performance/fun car for about the same total spend. This "all new" RL rendering looks great though, and in approx. 4 yrs, I'll be looking at one all over again.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Portland, Oregon
I have to chime in on this one. I think it's pretty pathetic when the Hyundai Genesis looks better than the 2009 RL. And the Genesis will have a V8, too! 
For those who haven't seen the Genesis yet...
For those who haven't seen the Genesis yet...
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Originally Posted by mondo540
t made me go in a completely different direction car wise and I have a new 4 dr GTI w/ DSG in the garage for daily duty and may go with a later model vette as a 2nd performance/fun car for about the same total spend.
for Tampa to clean up) this fall, but am more likely to end up with a used C5 Corvette (looks better than C6) to get all the sport I need. Too bad you didn't end up with a 05-08 RL, though....though some feel it's bland, I happen to like the look and the features.In any case, I still am hoping that Acura is reconsidering the grille at least during this pause in order-taking for the 2009 RL...
Racer
Joined: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by PortlandRL
I have to chime in on this one. I think it's pretty pathetic when the Hyundai Genesis looks better than the 2009 RL. And the Genesis will have a V8, too!
For those who haven't seen the Genesis yet...
For those who haven't seen the Genesis yet...
Go Big Blue!
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From: Orlando, FLA
Originally Posted by geronimomoe
The grill reminds of a Klingon's forehead...
Intermediate
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From: OH
Bob, if you do get a CTS-V, I am 
to you....that would be very high on my list if I had 70K to spend...the Lutz factor at GM is alive and well.. I just hope some 40 yr old guy follows in his footsteps... Anyway, I saw a Genesis at the car show as well...no likey that either....something strangely bland/mutant about it...and the Pontiac G8 did not seem to fire me up either...maybe the GXP will, but a lot of cars I thought I would be somewhat interested in, I'm not after seeing them in person 
to you....that would be very high on my list if I had 70K to spend...the Lutz factor at GM is alive and well.. I just hope some 40 yr old guy follows in his footsteps... Anyway, I saw a Genesis at the car show as well...no likey that either....something strangely bland/mutant about it...and the Pontiac G8 did not seem to fire me up either...maybe the GXP will, but a lot of cars I thought I would be somewhat interested in, I'm not after seeing them in person
Three Wheelin'
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From: DC
Originally Posted by dwboston
Looks good, but >$70k? Might as well buy an Audi S6 or a BMW 550i for $70k.
They can't sell a $50k car so they're going to try to sell a $70k car? It's like asking to borrow $10 and being turned down then asking to borrow $100.
For $70k it better have every tech gadget in the Honda/Acura arsenal and have a hand-crafted interior. It just doesn't make sense to me. A sticker of $60k with a true selling price in the high $50k range would be understandable.
They can't sell a $50k car so they're going to try to sell a $70k car? It's like asking to borrow $10 and being turned down then asking to borrow $100.
For $70k it better have every tech gadget in the Honda/Acura arsenal and have a hand-crafted interior. It just doesn't make sense to me. A sticker of $60k with a true selling price in the high $50k range would be understandable.
I agree. At 70K, that's putting that out of my range. I hope the new TL will look nice, because at that price I will be moving down.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Boston, MA
Boston.com (the Boston Globe's site) has a photo gallery up of cars from the NY Auto Show. The write-up of the TSX is generally positive, except for the Acura corporate grille, which the writer says "already looks terribly dated, sorry Acura". I'm sure that's exactly what Colliver wants to hear. The picture of the TSX looks awful as well.
http://www.boston.com/cars/gallery/newyork08?pg=15
http://www.boston.com/cars/gallery/newyork08?pg=15
Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by dwboston
Boston.com (the Boston Globe's site) has a photo gallery up of cars from the NY Auto Show. The write-up of the TSX is generally positive, except for the Acura corporate grille, which the writer says "already looks terribly dated, sorry Acura". I'm sure that's exactly what Colliver wants to hear. The picture of the TSX looks awful as well.
The blood red one in the press photos is nice too.
You can see how much better-integrated "the grille" is on the TSX than on the RL. By contrast here's the best picture of the '09 RL on Acura's site:
Dick Colliver sez: "if I stand in front of the grille maybe no-one will notice".
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by darmok
Dick Colliver sez: "if I stand in front of the grille maybe no-one will notice".
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! There is that horrible thing again! I just stopped having nightmares!
And there is the fugly MMC RL too!
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I like the look of the TSX. The grille is better integrated with the design of the car. While it has slightly less power, it has more torque. Unfortunately, it also weighs more.
I believe it will sell like hotcakes despite polls on the TSX part of our site. It's still a great entry lux package.
The RL is an excellent mid-lux package, but the new front.....oh crap, no.
I believe it will sell like hotcakes despite polls on the TSX part of our site. It's still a great entry lux package.
The RL is an excellent mid-lux package, but the new front.....oh crap, no.
Race Director
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From: Charlotte(home) /Raleigh (school), NC
Originally Posted by neuronbob
I like the look of the TSX. The grille is better integrated with the design of the car. While it has slightly less power, it has more torque. Unfortunately, it also weighs more.
I believe it will sell like hotcakes despite polls on the TSX part of our site. It's still a great entry lux package.
The RL is an excellent mid-lux package, but the new front.....oh crap, no.
I believe it will sell like hotcakes despite polls on the TSX part of our site. It's still a great entry lux package.
The RL is an excellent mid-lux package, but the new front.....oh crap, no.
However that 2011 is drop dead awesome looking lets start praying now that acura does that.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by larrynimmo
a delay in 09 arrival means a delay in sell-out cash...top incentives may not take effect by April 1, 2008...prehaps April 15...it will happen only as a matter of when. "the best indication of future behavior is past behavior"...quote from my wife.
Larry, she's been watching too much Dr. Phil.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 467
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The TSX grille looks good. as mentioned, nicely integrated and if the rendering is true, the new acura grille will look nice for the 2010 RL and upcoming TL.
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As for Hyundai, The car is a chop shop special with a "faux" mercedes grille, Infiniti rear and is spot on the last generation Nissan Maxima.
One thing missing from the prized Hyundai is the front badge....Are they embarrassed in putting the "H" on a $40K car?
Or maybe the H badge is in such high demand that people might steal it once the Genesis hits the streets..so keep it off the car to ward off the perpetrators.
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As for Hyundai, The car is a chop shop special with a "faux" mercedes grille, Infiniti rear and is spot on the last generation Nissan Maxima.
One thing missing from the prized Hyundai is the front badge....Are they embarrassed in putting the "H" on a $40K car?
Or maybe the H badge is in such high demand that people might steal it once the Genesis hits the streets..so keep it off the car to ward off the perpetrators.
Intermediate
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As for Hyundai, The car is a chop shop special with a "faux" mercedes grille, Infiniti rear and is spot on the last generation Nissan Maxima.
One thing missing from the prized Hyundai is the front badge....Are they embarrassed in putting the "H" on a $40K car?
Or maybe the H badge is in such high demand that people might steal it once the Genesis hits the streets..so keep it off the car to ward off the perpetrators.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Hyundai did something fairly clever by showing the car around with two different grills. One was a different grill with the H in it and the other was the grill in the pictures here. They then got feedback thru polling auto show attendees and online car sites. They then went with the grill that was more popular. Sounds like something that Acura should have considered with the RL.
I really happen to like the looks of the Genesis sedan, the coupe doesn't do much for me, but everyone's taste is different.
As for Hyundai, The car is a chop shop special with a "faux" mercedes grille, Infiniti rear and is spot on the last generation Nissan Maxima.
One thing missing from the prized Hyundai is the front badge....Are they embarrassed in putting the "H" on a $40K car?
Or maybe the H badge is in such high demand that people might steal it once the Genesis hits the streets..so keep it off the car to ward off the perpetrators.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Hyundai did something fairly clever by showing the car around with two different grills. One was a different grill with the H in it and the other was the grill in the pictures here. They then got feedback thru polling auto show attendees and online car sites. They then went with the grill that was more popular. Sounds like something that Acura should have considered with the RL.
I really happen to like the looks of the Genesis sedan, the coupe doesn't do much for me, but everyone's taste is different.
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Looks like JDPowers was paid off again for another bogus award...
http://www.automotivedigest.com/Peop...2#DickColliver
http://www.automotivedigest.com/Peop...2#DickColliver
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Originally Posted by TampaRL
Looks like JDPowers was paid off again for another bogus award...
http://www.automotivedigest.com/Peop...2#DickColliver
http://www.automotivedigest.com/Peop...2#DickColliver
OTOH, Acura needs to listen to its customers a little more on the design front. If they did, Acura's design snafu with the RL might not have happened. I am wondering just what sort of consumer profile allowed that grille design to go forward on the RL. Ewwww.
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Actually, Acura does better than many other auto companies in customer service, complaints here notwithstanding. The award is likely well-earned.
BUT, my experience with companies recieving a JD Powers award is usually that that have campaigned to get it and strongly 'advised' their customers to rate them well in order to do so. And I can just see Mr Colliver insisting how much HE deserved the recognition.
OK, I admit it, I am BITTER. Bitter, Bitter, BITTER. Let me just work this off.
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Originally Posted by TampaRL
OK, I admit it, I am BITTER. Bitter, Bitter, BITTER. Let me just work this off.
It's OK, Tampa, it's OK....let it out man....let it out....we're all there for you....
Right now, I've got other things to be bitter about, though. I just woke up and went to get my newspaper....and it's fscking snowed another five inches! Not kidding, I'm really sick of winter right now. It's spring dammit!
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
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From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by neuronbob
It's OK, Tampa, it's OK....let it out man....let it out....we're all there for you....
Right now, I've got other things to be bitter about, though. I just woke up and went to get my newspaper....and it's fscking snowed another five inches! Not kidding, I'm really sick of winter right now. It's spring dammit!
Right now, I've got other things to be bitter about, though. I just woke up and went to get my newspaper....and it's fscking snowed another five inches! Not kidding, I'm really sick of winter right now. It's spring dammit!
*achoo*