Keyless Entry / Immobilizer Disabled
10-18-2012, 02:42 PM
#41
Instructor
I thought he said that black plastic key substitute was mostly broken off and that he used the no-chip simple key in the ign. Which is weird, no need to break that thing off...comes off in one piece
10-18-2012, 02:46 PM
#42
I thought he was referring to broken black plastic on the ignition where you insert the key
10-18-2012, 04:52 PM
#43
If the car reads the fob ok, then the immobilzer is satisfied as well and you can start it without the physical key. If it doesn't read a fob and you try to use a physical key, it will try to listen for the chip in the black piece of the physical key. If it gets the proper signal from that, you can start the car with the phyical key.
The indicator light goes out to signal that the immobilizer has been satisfied. If it doesn't go out, then that means the car doesn't see either one and it will not start.
Hope this helps.
10-18-2012, 04:56 PM
#44
Understood, but how do you even turn the starter if no Key, no FOB?
I have not checked - maybe it does turn?
I have not checked - maybe it does turn?
10-18-2012, 05:14 PM
#45
I have been the reading all of the posts daily, thanks for all the inputs. I am still on business travel, but will be back at the airport tomorrow evening. I will look to try to identify if the key is indeed hidden somewhere inside the car. Here in a little bit I will take a pic of the key that I have with me (I use it solely, it unlocks the doors and starts the ignition).
The broken plastic is on the ignition. The key I have is an aftermarket Ilco key (they make replacement locks for cars). I do not have any original Acura keys (unless one is hidden in the car somewhere).
The broken plastic is on the ignition. The key I have is an aftermarket Ilco key (they make replacement locks for cars). I do not have any original Acura keys (unless one is hidden in the car somewhere).
10-18-2012, 05:49 PM
#46
What do you mean turn the starter with no key? The OP said he uses an ilco non-chipped key so he does have a key. If you have no key and no fob, you can't even turn on power to the car let alone the starter.
10-18-2012, 05:55 PM
#47
That's exactly my point. Independent of OP situation, what good does the key icon light perform? No key, no fob, no power, no light
10-18-2012, 05:56 PM
#48
Senior Moderator
I think he means can you turn the knob without a fob or key. The answer is, "no". You can turn it half way to (I) and the steering wheel will try to telescope. However, it will not turn farther and the steering wheel will retreat. I think the key icon blinks when this happens.
10-18-2012, 05:58 PM
#49
I think he means can you turn the knob without a fob or key. The answer is, "no". You can turn it half way to (I) and the steering wheel will try to telescope. However, it will not turn farther and the steering wheel will retreat. I think the key icon blinks when this happens.
So there is power and the key light would be telling me that I forgot something
10-18-2012, 07:50 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
It happens to me multiple times a week because I keep a phone in the same pocket as my fob, and the car won't recognize it.
10-18-2012, 07:56 PM
#52
to 007 - so is there a problem with your other pocket
10-20-2012, 09:05 AM
#55
OMFG... that lock cylinder looks totally non-standard! Like someone ripped off the plastic part and/or replaced the cylinder entirely. Someone lobotomized that poor RL!
One question... when you put the key in and first turn it to the II position (power on, but car not started), does the green key indicator (just below and between the gas and temp needles) come on solid green for just a sec or two and then disappear?
Also, when you just turn off the car and pull the key out, does the same green key indicator flash a few times?
These are both normal indicators of the immobilizer functioning normally.
One question... when you put the key in and first turn it to the II position (power on, but car not started), does the green key indicator (just below and between the gas and temp needles) come on solid green for just a sec or two and then disappear?
Also, when you just turn off the car and pull the key out, does the same green key indicator flash a few times?
These are both normal indicators of the immobilizer functioning normally.
Last edited by Megatron; 10-20-2012 at 09:17 AM.
10-20-2012, 09:13 AM
#56
By the way, this is what a normal lock cylinder on the RL should look like...
And this is what it should look like with a key in it...
And this is what it should look like with a key in it...
Last edited by Megatron; 10-20-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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oo7spy (10-20-2012)
10-20-2012, 11:17 AM
#57
Senior Moderator
10-20-2012, 02:21 PM
#58
OMFG... that lock cylinder looks totally non-standard! Like someone ripped off the plastic part and/or replaced the cylinder entirely. Someone lobotomized that poor RL!
One question... when you put the key in and first turn it to the II position (power on, but car not started), does the green key indicator (just below and between the gas and temp needles) come on solid green for just a sec or two and then disappear?
Also, when you just turn off the car and pull the key out, does the same green key indicator flash a few times?
These are both normal indicators of the immobilizer functioning normally.
One question... when you put the key in and first turn it to the II position (power on, but car not started), does the green key indicator (just below and between the gas and temp needles) come on solid green for just a sec or two and then disappear?
Also, when you just turn off the car and pull the key out, does the same green key indicator flash a few times?
These are both normal indicators of the immobilizer functioning normally.
10-20-2012, 02:27 PM
#59
Finally, where are you located? You aren't anywhere near Seattle are you?
10-20-2012, 03:08 PM
#60
Wow... if it does that, then I have to agree with the theory that there is a hidden key (or just the transponder chip head) in the car somewhere near the steering column. Somehow, the immobilizer is getting a signal like it's supposed to. The ilco key is a totally flat key right? I mean does it look like it could have a chip in it somewhere? Your pictures seem to show it's a plain jane normal key... but wanted to double check since I can't see it from all angles.
Finally, where are you located? You aren't anywhere near Seattle are you?
Finally, where are you located? You aren't anywhere near Seattle are you?
Also, I am in Ohio, so not anywhere close to Seattle.
10-20-2012, 04:28 PM
#61
I don't think we need more pics of the key. I think we all agree that's a plain key. There has to be a chip hidden in your car somewhere or else they really dissected the immobilizer system! I think it's more likely there's a key chip hidden somewhere.
In any event, now that we have all the info we needed, back to your original question...
Assuming there is a chip in your car and they didn't totally lobotomize your security system, you should be able to get new fobs programmed to your car. You just need someone with access to a dealer HDS system, which is why I asked if you were close to Seattle. ;-)
The fob on the rl is both the entry remote as well as keyless start, and those two functions can't be separated. So once a remote fob is programmed, that fob will also allow keyless start. If you can snap a cover back on the ignition cylinder, you would have keyless start also. But that might be difficult looking at that cylinder.
In any event, now that we have all the info we needed, back to your original question...
Assuming there is a chip in your car and they didn't totally lobotomize your security system, you should be able to get new fobs programmed to your car. You just need someone with access to a dealer HDS system, which is why I asked if you were close to Seattle. ;-)
The fob on the rl is both the entry remote as well as keyless start, and those two functions can't be separated. So once a remote fob is programmed, that fob will also allow keyless start. If you can snap a cover back on the ignition cylinder, you would have keyless start also. But that might be difficult looking at that cylinder.
10-20-2012, 05:33 PM
#63
Unfortunately, no... That's the cover to the ignition switch that you normally use to start the car (you turn this cover in lieu of turning a key) when you have a fob. But looking at your previous pics, it looks like someone ripped off the plastic piece in the ignition switch itself that this cover normally attaches to (see my pics above and you will see the plastic piece I am talking about around the key hole). So my guess is that this cover you found won't snap in securely over the key hole like it should.
If you look at the picture in the amazon link you posted, you will see the cover over the ignition key opening where the key normally goes. On the side, you see the two RL physical keys, with their transponder chip heads attached.
If you look at the picture in the amazon link you posted, you will see the cover over the ignition key opening where the key normally goes. On the side, you see the two RL physical keys, with their transponder chip heads attached.
Last edited by Megatron; 10-20-2012 at 05:37 PM.
10-20-2012, 07:11 PM
#64
Senior Moderator
10-20-2012, 10:20 PM
#65
Instructor
Take apart the whole interior! 
But yea, it could be anywhere within the car. Maybe even outside the car, near the windshield area. I assume you know about the "hidden" glovebox? It has to be in there!
Here's what the keyfob looks like with the cover off. This is as much as I could take apart without damaging it.
But yea, it could be anywhere within the car. Maybe even outside the car, near the windshield area. I assume you know about the "hidden" glovebox? It has to be in there! Here's what the keyfob looks like with the cover off. This is as much as I could take apart without damaging it.
10-20-2012, 10:56 PM
#66
Instructor
Also... Just thought of something...
Let's try this, if you're willing. Try to turn the ignition using a flat screw driver. Of course pay extra caution to the tumblers(try not to even touch it). Remember, it's a push in and turn, so you might need 2 sets of hands.
The point of this test is to see if the remote is in the car. If it turns, that means the keyfob/remote is in the car. If it doesn't turn, no key fob.
If it does turn, keep it on either 1 or 2, exit the vehicle and shut the door. The car should beep, telling you that the key is still in the car. I tried this using only the key, but it doesn't beep because I used the key.
Let's try this, if you're willing. Try to turn the ignition using a flat screw driver. Of course pay extra caution to the tumblers(try not to even touch it). Remember, it's a push in and turn, so you might need 2 sets of hands.
The point of this test is to see if the remote is in the car. If it turns, that means the keyfob/remote is in the car. If it doesn't turn, no key fob.
If it does turn, keep it on either 1 or 2, exit the vehicle and shut the door. The car should beep, telling you that the key is still in the car. I tried this using only the key, but it doesn't beep because I used the key.
10-20-2012, 11:02 PM
#67
Instructor
I'd be removing the plastic cover around the steering column and looking around in there. That's the usual place favored by installers of remote start units.
A key (with chip) can't be very far from there and still work.
A fob, on the other hand could be anywhere but not likely since it is large and has a battery.
A key (with chip) can't be very far from there and still work.
A fob, on the other hand could be anywhere but not likely since it is large and has a battery.
10-20-2012, 11:18 PM
#68
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
I'd be removing the plastic cover around the steering column and looking around in there. That's the usual place favored by installers of remote start units.
A key (with chip) can't be very far from there and still work.
A fob, on the other hand could be anywhere but not likely since it is large and has a battery.
A key (with chip) can't be very far from there and still work.
A fob, on the other hand could be anywhere but not likely since it is large and has a battery.
10-21-2012, 07:19 AM
#70
Instructor
10-21-2012, 07:35 AM
#71
Instructor
Promise it will not work on most cars of this vintage - the proximity sensor antenna coil is near the ign switch with an intentionally limited range.
More modern cars with a push button start are a different story.
10-21-2012, 11:24 AM
#72
I think some of us here are mixing the two systems up... the FOB and the KEY are two completely DIFFERENT things and not related except for the fact that they both allow starting of the car.
The FOB can be anywhere inside the cabin of the vehicle (and yes, even outside around the windshield area!) and allow remote start. It has a greater range because it has its own power source (batteries) AND there are multiple sensors for the FOB signal!
The KEY on the other hand, has a transponder chip in the head which does NOT have a power source. This is just like all the other cars out there that do not have keyless start. It is a passive system like badge readers that allow entry into buildings. Since the reader itself is in the ignition switch (and ONLY there), the chip has to be relatively close to that location. Have you ever tried to use a badge reader more than about 6 inches away?? That's about the extent of the range of these passive devices.
So bottom line is this... if he can only start the car with the physical key, there has to be a chip somewhere around the steering column area.
But I would be curious to know if the car will start without the key though... like with a screwdriver. Just use a big flat tip screwdriver and push in and turn. If that works, then it's a fob hidden in the car and not a key head.
The FOB can be anywhere inside the cabin of the vehicle (and yes, even outside around the windshield area!) and allow remote start. It has a greater range because it has its own power source (batteries) AND there are multiple sensors for the FOB signal!
The KEY on the other hand, has a transponder chip in the head which does NOT have a power source. This is just like all the other cars out there that do not have keyless start. It is a passive system like badge readers that allow entry into buildings. Since the reader itself is in the ignition switch (and ONLY there), the chip has to be relatively close to that location. Have you ever tried to use a badge reader more than about 6 inches away?? That's about the extent of the range of these passive devices.
So bottom line is this... if he can only start the car with the physical key, there has to be a chip somewhere around the steering column area.
But I would be curious to know if the car will start without the key though... like with a screwdriver. Just use a big flat tip screwdriver and push in and turn. If that works, then it's a fob hidden in the car and not a key head.
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steve807 (10-21-2012)
10-21-2012, 11:35 AM
#74
Normally, he would be able to use the cover piece to try without the key, but looking at the pictures, it looks like they actually broke off the plastic piece that the cover latches onto to turn the ignition. There is normally a plastic tab at the top of the key hole (see my pics above) that allows you to turn it even with the cover off. The cover actually latches onto that tab. But in this case, the tab is gone and appears to be still attached to the cover if you look at his pics. That means there is nothing for the cover to grab onto to turn.
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steve807 (10-21-2012)
10-21-2012, 12:13 PM
#75
Right, I can't use the ignition cover as the other piece required is missing. When I tried with a screwdriver, the steering wheel moved and I got the welcome message; however, when I tried to turn it, it wouldn't turn.
I am still trying to figure out out to get the steering column trim off. I see three screws, but the pieces seem to not separate. I'm obviously missing some hidden screws or something. I did get under the dash , but I couldn't find anything.
In addition, I checked the "hidden" glove box where the manual goes and there is nothing but the manual and bose disc there.
I am still trying to figure out out to get the steering column trim off. I see three screws, but the pieces seem to not separate. I'm obviously missing some hidden screws or something. I did get under the dash , but I couldn't find anything.
In addition, I checked the "hidden" glove box where the manual goes and there is nothing but the manual and bose disc there.
10-21-2012, 01:12 PM
#77
Right, I can't use the ignition cover as the other piece required is missing. When I tried with a screwdriver, the steering wheel moved and I got the welcome message; however, when I tried to turn it, it wouldn't turn.
I am still trying to figure out out to get the steering column trim off. I see three screws, but the pieces seem to not separate. I'm obviously missing some hidden screws or something. I did get under the dash , but I couldn't find anything.
In addition, I checked the "hidden" glove box where the manual goes and there is nothing but the manual and bose disc there.
I am still trying to figure out out to get the steering column trim off. I see three screws, but the pieces seem to not separate. I'm obviously missing some hidden screws or something. I did get under the dash , but I couldn't find anything.
In addition, I checked the "hidden" glove box where the manual goes and there is nothing but the manual and bose disc there.
As for the steering column trim, it looks like it's just 3 screwes and the rest just snap off. Just be careful while you're pulling and prying... you don't want to mar up the edges or break any tabs off. See the manual page below...
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oo7spy (10-21-2012)
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oo7spy (10-21-2012)
10-21-2012, 02:07 PM
#79
Bummer you can't find a key chip. I guess the mystery remains...
See the black piece right behind the metallic circular ring? That is the actual immobilizer transceiver unit. See if you can find the plug leading from that unit and try unplugging it. Then try to start the car like normal and pay attention to the green key light on the dash. Does it still show normal 2 second on and then goes off? And when you turn it all off, does it still blink 5 times? That would be the next test.
If it works and starts like normal, they somehow nullified the immobilizer from the equation and the car doesn't need it to work!
If it doesn't start... then something for sure is sending the signal the immobilzer is looking for.
See the black piece right behind the metallic circular ring? That is the actual immobilizer transceiver unit. See if you can find the plug leading from that unit and try unplugging it. Then try to start the car like normal and pay attention to the green key light on the dash. Does it still show normal 2 second on and then goes off? And when you turn it all off, does it still blink 5 times? That would be the next test.
If it works and starts like normal, they somehow nullified the immobilizer from the equation and the car doesn't need it to work!
If it doesn't start... then something for sure is sending the signal the immobilzer is looking for.
Last edited by Megatron; 10-21-2012 at 02:11 PM.
10-21-2012, 04:09 PM
#80
Senior Moderator
I wonder if you could get just the outside of the ignition needed for the plastic cover to work?
I would check catalog if I had my computer.
I would check catalog if I had my computer.