Rob L

I determine build/material quality by my real world experience with products. I can tell what product has better build/material quality just by using it and I really dont put much value in the panel gap stuff like I know some users do.

Look at the top of the interior panels of the RL's doors...they are somewhat flimsy which to me means less than top notch build quality. Compare this to Lexus door panels that are solid. Another example can be the cover for the rear brake light on the window...it is cheaply attached. The sunsahde housing and sunshade itself are cheap if you compare them to how the sunshade in the LS430 is. The RL comes with crap OEM tires whereas Lexus models generally (from my experience) come with decent tires. The RL's windshield wiper nozzles are not that effective when underway at any speed yet on any Lexus model I have driven they have been fine no matter what speed I am driving at. A good % of RL brakes rattle or rattled going over bumps at speeds under 40mph and from what I have read this has been common on Acura models in the past...this doesnt happen with Lexus cars based on my 10 years of experience.

I could go on an on with examples but I wont bore anyone. The fact is Acura isnt up to Lexus standards in this area. Does it mean Acuras are built like junk or use piss poor materials? No....just means Lexus is THAT good.

Again, the RL is closer than past Acuras and if Acura stops cutting corners they will probably be at Lexus levels soon but the fact is they arent there yet.

Rob L

while I do think the IS350s price is a bit too high when loaded and current RL delas area steal compared to the new IS MSRP prices, have you even looked at what you get for the price of a loaded IS350? You get every luxury amenity the RL has and a few more and you also get a car that comes close to 0-60mph in under 5 seconds and "possibly" a better handling car than the RL although if the 350 handles like the 250 awd then you wont as the rl handles better than the 250AWD. In addition to this, the new IS is a quieter car than the RL...so it isnt like Lexus' "lowest model" (i think the es330 is their new lowest model) is some piece of junk. The only thing it has going against it relative to its price is its size...it is quite small inside and I swear it is smaller inside than the last gen IS300.

BTW I was considering trading in my RL for the new IS350 but after seeing the price list and sitting in it I wont be doing this because the new IS is too small to justify trading the RL in even though IMO it is a great car despite the fact I wished the price for it here (cdn car prices suck) was 5 grand less.

Rob L

yeah I hear ya buddy...I just found it odd soemone would call the last gen IS300 boring since it was one of the better handling and "fun" sports sedans out there at the time.

Oh and I didnt meant to be a dick when commenting about the "blow by them remark" as I was just mentioning how quick Lexus cars are these days....I think msot dont realize just how fast Lexus cars are now compared to in the past. Hell, the new IS350 has been tested to do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds (car & driver) and 5.3 from another company and that is pretty impressive considering its price/category and the fact the engine isnt boosted or has a ton of HP. Both the LS and GS 430 are under 6 seconds for this as well. I think gone are the days people saying Lexus cars are slow.

Hope you didnt take it personally.

stokdgs

RobL, Thanks for the reply. Its all good as far as Im concerned. Appreciate your input on both Lexus and Acura marques. I remembered after you posted earlier also, that the IS300 felt smaller inside, than the 330. I ended up only keeping the 3 series for 10 months and traded it in on an '02 M Coupe - what a Rocket !
Still like the RL for what it is and what it does, recently blew through a few mountain passes between Washington and Northern California, and the SH-Awd certainly got a good workout and felt very stable - as long as I didnt exceed the law of physics. Almost did at one point - flying down a 16% grade, started raining buckets, I was looking for the wipers and looked up to see me about 1000' from a 30mph tight switchback to the right and I was doing between 65-70. Ay Caramba ! The electronics got involved when I started slowing and only had one brief chirp from the back wheels and the vehicle rotated around just fine. Note to self - you never know when its going to rain in the Cascades in Oregon - be careful ! DanF

petemc

Is there an aspect of this that we might have missed, which is the fact that no-one likes to promote the competition unless you know you can beat them.

Is it possible that BMW (for example) doesn't want to list the RL as a competitor because the price of a comparably equipped BMW is far greater than the RL?

Is it possible that other manufacturers want to position their vehicles as unique with great surround sound systems, voice controls, state-of-the-art NAV systems, keyless entry and keyless ignition, but they know that the RL already has such features?

If you look at the comparisons they are a bit rediculous at times...have you ever noticed how they compare features that are unique to their model...they never show unique features of the competition.

Just a thought

Pete

hondamore

NorCalRL

Pete,

That's just good marketing.

You're trying to establish the buying criteria for your prospects. The more persuasive you are in getting them to buy in on your criteria for purchasing, the more you can eliminate possible competitors.

Why do you think Acura is promoting SH-AWD instead of AWD? Because no one else has it.

vtecracer

Its funny how some people here are saying that Acura cut corners with the RL and Lexus doesn't cut corners. Aside for magazine journalists publishing that the new Lexus GS had some obvious cost cutting done, even owners on ClubLexus have made posts in regards to cheap plastic interior pieces. Additionally, when comparing the RL vs. GS, the auto journalists have stated several times that the RL's build quality and materials are BETTER than the GS. Additionally, more of the RL is built by hand than the GS.

Heres a few links about some areas of concern I would have if I owned a GS:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184785

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179958

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175440

So if you think that the RL's quality is less than the GS even after people who have had extended experience with both cars have stated that the RL's quality is better, then just sell your RL, go and buy your self a GS and please report back to us after a few months how many thousands of dollars better the GS's quality really is over the RL's.

neilah

vtecracer, THANKS for those links.

I'm shopping around now for my next new car, jumping out of my MY00 BMW 528i into either the RL or a GS300.

I've driven both, and the GS truly feels like a Camry in terms of steering, performance, and material quality.

But that hadn't stopped me from buying a Lexus. The car may not be tight, but by god, it's a *LEXUS*, how bad can it be? How terrible can the car be built, when Lexus symbolizes and redefined the very terms of "quality"and "reliability"? Will I get as much 'respect' in an RL vs. a GS? (My little $0.02, in terms of psychographics from the consumer's perspective).


Reading those posts, and others, on that forum is the wake-up call that I needed. My next car, unlike my BMW, needs to be reliable (new daughter 3 days ago, added to my 2.75 yo son), needs to last, needs to be safe, and most importantly, needs gobs of tech gadgets to keep me happy.

Now to get rid of my BMW sweetly and buy an RL

--Neil

vp911

Neil - The RL is the choice for you
Congrats on the new daughter!

vtecracer

Congratulations on your baby Girl, Neil. I'm glad I could help. The RL has received the HIGHEST possible crash test ratings, the whole family will be safe.

vp911

Another HUGE reason (probably the biggest) for me choosing the RL after my accident in the TL.