I get tired of hearing people, especially car testers, say a true luxury car must have a V8. I love the Acura V6 and it serves my needs must fine. I guess a V8 has more prestige and that is why a lot of people buy a luxury car. I remember the early 50's Fords had a V8 emblem so that everyone would know that you didn't have the measley 6. Ford still does this on the Explorer for the same reason. Lots of physcology with the V8.

Why stop at a V8? Why not a V10, V12, or V16?

BTW gas just went up 10¢ a gallon over the weekend, which is another reason I like the V6.

 

Agreed. The discussion should be about performance. Period.

 

Yeah to hell with V8s...give me a v12 with 955Hp!!!

I personally don't get the whole "gotta have a V8" talk people do but that is just me. Sure a V8 RL would be a bit quicker but is it really that big a deal during normal daily driving? I see it just as some bragging rights for people to say "my car does the 1/4 mile in 2 nanoseconds" and stuff like that.

I do have to disagree about the RL's V6 being better on fuel...I don't think the RL's V6 is really that more efficient than many V8s out there. I'm almsot certain my parents' LS430 is better on fuel than my RL.

 

We have a lower MSRP on the RL's compared to some competitors with V8's, and I think it partly has to do with the V6. On the other hand, the V6 in the RL doesn't offer any advantage in MPG (My MPG on average is 13mpg).

 

Not to sidetrack this discussion, but I'm just curious what you guys think. So on the same note and with a similar argument.... do you think the TSX's 4 cyl make it less of a 'luxury' car? well, entry-lux to be more exact. Many ppl argue that luxury cars should have v6's, just like some argue they should have v8... while other think it's not how many cylinders that matter, it's real world performance and the amneties that it offers that matters.

 

I don't think the TSX's 4-cylinder makes it any less of a luxury car. It knows its competition and holds its ground quite well against its 6-cylinder competitors. I believe it really is real-world performance and the amenities. The TSX is winning hearts over across the nation--its popularity has even surprised Acura. The car has street credit, as well...most people just assume the TSX has a V6 in it. And that is a testament for how smooth and refined the 4-banger is. Luxury is about performance, finesse, and amenities, and the TSX has them all. The TSX is a legit entry-lux player.

 

I say real world performance and more importantly, amenities are what matter, not the size of the engine or hp.

If I were to be buying a high end sports car for the track or to do drag runs with then yeah, the engine/power are probably what I'd look at the most (well, I'd probbaly look at the efficiency of that engine design meaning hp/litre, etc) but for a luxury sedan, it is the junk inside that matters to me most. If the stuff inside doesn't matter much to a person buying a luxury car then why not buy like a Subaru STi or a pocket rocket like that?

I'd have been cool if the RL had a 4 cyl engine as long as it would have got me to where I need to go in a decent amount of time. I have yet to need the RL's power so IMO it is just something being wasted with me...I don't need 300hp.

 

I once drove a car with an in-line 12. It was about as unluxurious and uncomfortable as they come. Yesterday I had to get back to NYC from upstate NY in a hurry. I made it with power and acceleration to spare; I was surprised arriving in the city, realizing I hadn't adjusted the seat settings to atone for aging muscles a single time (something I did continuously in my Lexus). And the nav system/XM radio channel 211 helped me find a smart way into town with minimal loss of time due to traffic. Such is the essence of luxury. The car? You guessed it. It was an RL. Note also how few of the people on these boards who actually bought an RL scream about the alleged V8 problem.

 

I agree with you guys... and clearly the RL attracts a more mature crowd than let's say, a TL (nothing wrong with it, of course).

I just don't get the craze about hp numbers and big engines these days, I think it's kind of annoying sometimes when you hear people say how 'weak' a car is when it doesn't have more than 250hp.... people actually say a car like, let's say, an IS300 is 'slow' with 'only' 215hp....

Hope this hp war will end some time soon.

 

Well I DO need a V-8! And I have one - in my 'vette. I DON'T need one in my sedan, I just need enough power to make the thing move properly and the RL's motor does that just fine.

 

It is these type of post that keeps Acura relaxed while Lexus/Toyata and Infiniti/Nissan are on an assualt to take as much market share as possible. They are aggressive as hell. I love the Acura product and the feel of the cars but it lacks the very thing that the company boast. True sports. Acura/Honda brakes always heat up very fast and start to tremble at the wheel. Refuse to go strictly AWD or RWD. FWD is safe but isn't AWD also. Things like this matters when it comes to market share. I'm in sales and I know. I must admit I look at real world performance also. If it's a V8 or V6 it doesen't matter. But I don't know how much torque can be sqeezed out of that 3.5 liter V6. The damn RL is toooooo heavy for a measly 260 lbs. of torque. The 300hp looks cool on paper but I drove the RL and on the interstate it is sluggish even compared to the TL. The type of attitudes in the RL forum is why the folks at the GS or M35/45 forums think they are a bunch of GRANDPA'S in here. Wake up!

 

What type of crowd does the GS430, M45, and 545 attract?

 

Damn, now I'm not going to be able to sleep for a week!

 

I am a GRANDPA.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I hope I'll be a grandpa someday. But I guess the GS430, M45, and 545 does attract a different crowd from the RL. I just want the aggressive sporting spirit that those cars attain wrapped up in an Acura.
I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Me too but it won't. I have been checking out the IS300 board and many people are bitching about a report the new IS could only have 245hp from its new V6 and they say if that is the case they won't get it. Odd to me

 

That's cool, I'll be considered a grandpa then because I don't need 3969369853 ft-lbs of torque to drive in the city or on the highway. I grew out of that phase in my life...when I was 20.

I'm just curious where you (and other acceleration whores) drive that you need all the power and the ability to go from 60 to 100mph in 2 seconds? I can only guess the streets where I live must be different because again, I have never needed the measily Ford Pinto style power the RL has so wtf would I need more? Gimme a LOGICAL reason why I (and other RL owners fine with the car's performance) need more power?

Oh and I dont give a shit what the people at GS, M, etc boards think. Who are they to me? Strangers who I will never meet and to be perfectly blunt could die tomorrow and I would not care one bit.

Maybe tonight I'll floor the RL on my way home from work on the city streets.

Sad that a car that can get to highway speeds in a mere 7 seconds is considered slow in this day & age.

I also do not see the deal with the RL's AWD system...seems it is a great system that major publications/sights rave about yet you seem to have an issue with it...why?


Oh and it seems the TL is selling like crazy and there are many Acuras on the road so apparently Acura has been doing something right...maybe they dont need to play the acceleration game to sell their cars.

 

I think these cars (and the RL) were mainly targeted at an audience in their late thirties to mid-40's, and that would probably their main consumer. HOWEVER, recently, there are a lot more young people coming from wealthy families (who has a job, out of school with no debt cause their parents paid them through school), and hence these cars also attract a new group of consumer, who are in their twenties.

It is this group of buyers who will be attracted by so-called performance factors (they have also somewhat influenced the older age groups....just look at those maniacs driving high-power cars around you, it's no longer just young ppl, which is just one reason why I think the hp war should stop), while in reality it's just a marketing gimmick that was mainly started by Nissan/Infiniti with the hp/torque numbers, but I mean, when was the last time you saw a performance car weighing like 3500lbs, size of the new Maxima, long front and rear overhang, long wheelbase, considered a performance car? Talk about weigh transfer..... Sure there are a few exceptions, but just because of engine output and praises by magazines who get paid by auto makers, doesn't necessarily mean the car has good performance, at least not as good as people it is.... and probably not as important as people think it is.

I'm getting a bit sidetracked... but don't get me wrong, not bashing on the cars, and these cars are great, just wanted to point out a lot of these things people talk about is just a marketing gimmick, but as a post pointed out earlier, that's what people what.... hp numbers... and, so-called performance.... if that's what people want, sure, I think Acura should go that route to stay in competition, but perhaps Acura is long-sighted and foresee this hp competition (that's mainly going on in the US) trend to die down.

Another point, just because someone don't care as much about hp numbers doesn't mean they're grandpa/grandma.... I think they're just more realistic... These are large 4dr sedans we're talking about... you don't probably don't need that ultra high output engine that belongs on a Vette or whatever.... most of the time these cars will be crusing along on the highway or something.... Big engine is just an overkill.... I guess that's also why it's considered luxury.... but imo it's also a waste of natural resources

 

One more thing...IMO it is handling that makes a car sporty not the friggin straight line acceleration. I guess though that many don't put much value in the handling simply because it is easier for them to mash the gas in a straight line and think they are big bad tough guys as their piece of metal they paid for (but didn't create) goes forward and somehow strokes their fragile ego.

If all I wanted was straight acceleration I'd go buy a frickin sport bike not a luxury sedan.

 

supraken,

I agree with you bro. Nice logical post.

 

I will buy that the M45 and 545 attract a different crowd from the RL, but not the GS430. Even with 300hp and low 0-60 times, it is by no means an "enthusiast's car". Infiniti and BMW lean toward performance. Lexus leans toward luxury (with the exception of the IS.)

 

I totally :disagree: about Infiniti. They are not even close to being a performance car. The drive does not reflect the type of car to give you the driving experience.

 

I think in general, people are just too into bragging rights and horsepower numbers as opposed to the actual experience of owning a car. The overall feel and experience behind the wheel is what a reasonable car owner seeks, and unfortunately, we live in an unreasonable, rather glutinous society where more is always better.

Acura has its core owner in someone who is pragmatic, typically intelligent, and who enjoys and overall experience instead of just one or two simple thrills. This also means that these are people who understand the concept of compromise and that going "balls to wall" on any one particular thing means that something else must suffer.

As for the questions about no dedication to RWD and AWD, RWD has handling limitations in foul weather, that while these days can be controlled with electronics, still can be overridden by a bad driver. AWD has too much of a weight penalty to include in all cars. FWD gives a compromise between all-weather capability and handling. The TSX is a perfect example of a car that utilizes FWD and can, on the streets under normal driving conditions match most other cars currently for sale.

 

It's good to see these good discussions on the board.... one thing that differentiates Acurazine from the others...

 

I drive an FX35 when I'm not driving my RL and I can't imagine a crossover SUV that could be more fun to drive. It made the MDX I received as a loaner car seem like an "appliance". But don't take it from me... the FX has frequently been mentioned as a strong competitor to the BMW X-5 and Porsche Cayenne. In addition, the G35 has beaten the 3 Series in quite a few comparos. With that in mind, I'm not sure I understand your comment, but you are certainly entitled to disagree.

 

Honda does have the best V8 in the world....they just have to put on their production cars.

 

You're so right. One poor guy posted comments on ClubLexus about the new GS having a "floaty" ride. Two mods immediately ganged up on him and basically accused him of being a troll. You can't even read objective opinions over there anymore because they are not tolerated. And they have the nerve to talk about the guys on Benz board!

It is refreshing to read objective opinions in this forum. Speaks to the caliber of RL owners.

 

Not to toot my own horn, but I think I kinda led a more unbiased thread over at Club Lexus. I think more than anything, they just feed off of eachother. Here's a link to the thread: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153770

I'm surprised 1Sick did not go off on my lengthy post towards the beginning...

But yes, I think the RL crowd here is not overly biased. People aren't interested in the RL for incredible brand cachet or because of how drop dead sexy the car is--it's because the car is undeniably great and an all around "Jack of All Trades". It's a good car--and that's the motivation. Lexus has started gaining brand recognition, so now there is a poseur following. Yes, they make good cars, but it seems there's a much larger fanboy following--which is too bad for Clublexus, because otherwise that would be a great community.

I know that the LX470 community is great over there. They have proven to be very helpful and are very courteous. :thumbup:

 

You mean the Indy-car motor? Exactly what makes it "the best V8 in the world"?

 

I never said that the RL'S AWD was a problem. I like the set up. My only complaint is that the added weight is not compensated for by only giving the car 260 lbs. of torque. If the RL had let's say 300-320 lbs. of torque it would be much more of an exciting car. What's wrong with a $50,000 SPORTS sedan having excitiment? As far as the styling the RL is nice but settled. Some people like that some don't. I personally like styling that's a little more distinctive. It's almost like you can't except anybody making statements towards the RL that is not 100% positive. I went to the auto show this past weekend. The Acura salesmen went over to view the 2006 GS at least 3 times a piece. They could not stop talking about it. How do you think that made me feel. I am an Acura lover and all of my friends and family knows it. I was with my brother-in-law who happens to be a GS owner is fond of the Toyota family. We were standing next to the RL and I am trying to tell him how great the RL is and the Acura salesmen keep talking about the GS. Even other spectators in that were was passing. Come on man. It's not just me. I don't explode if someone says something negative towards the TL as long as it is true. Some stuff that people say about the TL is true. I know. I drive it everyday.
To thy own self be true.

 

I personally appreciate great handling. Which is why every time I step into my TL even though a great car I think about the expeience I had when I took the BMW 330i on a mapped out coarse. The car handled so well the breaks were so strong. Man. What an expeience. But to me BMW lacks in so many other areas. But performance is not one of them. Acura has the potential to have the full package.

 

So how do you feel about the Mercedes E55, BMW M5 and the Audi RS6?

I love the idea of true performance wrapped up in a family hauler. The best of both worlds.

 

How do you feel about the Porsche Cayenne Turbo. An SUV with a biturbo V8 that puts out 450 hp with 459 lb-ft of torque. 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds, or the milder BMW X5 with a V8 that puts out 355 hp with 369 lb-ft of torque(0-60 of 5.9 seconds). I can go on and on( Mercedes ML55,G55, Infiniti FX45 ect.). This is not the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's where the idea of a sedan is just a good old American family hauler. The Euro automakers have tarnished this image and Japan is finally getting with it. In case you didn't know things and times change. And as time goes on the auto industry will only keep moving foward not backwards. It might not be in our lifetime but eventually those cars of the future will one day be a reality. Whether it be on the ground or in the air. Food for thought.

 

Can you say "cost/benefit analysis"?

By the way, maybe it's true that "the Euro automakers have tarnished this image," but I'm not sure that's what you meant.

 

I understand cost/benefit. To me Rob L was trying to bash the whole idea of having high performance in a sedan. I was proving a point. It was about the actual automobile rather the price.

Yes that's what I meant. The image is tarnished but I think this is a good thing.

 

That's pretty amazing, considering that in the entire history of the automobile, no such engine has even been produced!

 

That's what I thought. I've seen lots of in-line 8s, but no in-line 12. Be a hell of a crankshaft.

 

I wasn't offended and proud to be a grandpa. I couldn't afford a car like the RL until all the kids were grown and out of college.

 

The real shame in this story is that the Acura salesmen were totally focused on the looks of the GS and probably didn't realize some of its technological shortcomings, like the fact that its display only shows a limited number of characters for XM or that is has very limited capability in its voice recognition. The touch screen controls, vs. the RL's knob control, also make no sense. Just to adjust bass, treble, etc. you have to go into "Audio" and continue hitting the button on the screen each time you want to adjust up or down. With the RL, you just turn the knob and push. Lexus may have been going for simplicity with the GS, but the RL is much more user friendly in these areas, and the salesmen need to be emphasizing that. They have a great product. They should be proud of it.

 

If you say MASS-produced, I'll possibly agree with you (although I haven't researched it). It was indeed an in-line 12, put together by a wonderful former merchant marine chief engineer and master tinkerer who upon his retirement enjoyed breaking every rule in the book. It was all on a bet with his equally cantankerous neighbor and former second in command. His favorite contraption was an ancient 34-foot motor cruiser, repowered with a couple of 3-cylinder, 2-cycle Saab motors, a single, belt-driven shaft and a two-blade variable pitch prop. It was very slow but really sweet.