MIDRVR

By the way, did anyone else experience the same thing that I did - I set the clock when I was the driver ahead manually (as others have detailed earlier) and turned off the auto DST functionality. Then when my wife drove the car with her key fob we had to do it all over again because it was only set for my key fob originally and not hers. Since resetting for hers as well as mine we have had no problems. This little quirk was interesting - apparently the time funcationality is tied into the personal settings when you switch from auto DST to manual time set.

donger88

The DST clock issue is with the Alpine Navi system programming. It has nothing to do with the XM or GPS satellites. It has everything to do with the government required DST start/stop dates and programming code in the Navi system. Alpine/NavTeq hard coded the dates in the system and the fix is to change that coding and provide it in a new version of firmware for the Alpine system. Of course, they could have done it in the 2006 release but not so it will be in the 2007 update release of the NaviDVD. Enjoy.

TampaRLX-SH

It figures...

There are rarely updates on the NAVI disc worth me spending $145 for in the 1st couple of years. And since I will not pay that for an auto DST update to the clock, I will just adjust it manually. I would expect Acura should offer a flash update during our service calls. If Acura wants to ADVANCE, they need to stand behind their technology longer than a couple of months.

Chas2

Yup, I just did on Friday. My wife remarked what good time we were making even after stopping for lunch. I looked at the clock and figured it out immediately since the car started up with Driver 2, she got to the car before I did...

jfprl

Same here. I thought that was wierd. I also noticed that the clock minutes was different that the GPS time ( which you can check by getting to the "inner" nav screen.) I do not think the clock is tied to anything but itself.

getakey

not sure if this was covered before in this thread, but the clock is different for driver 1 and driver 2. That is, I had changed the clock time to account for DST under driver 1 (me), but it did not change it for driver 2. Seems odd - can't think of a reason that you would need the clock times different. Only found out because wife got to car first with her fob when we were out together and car started up in #2 settings rather than #1 and I knew I had reset it for me.

medrxman

IMOP I think this DST issue is a bit overdone.

It takes less time to change the time manually then it does to reset you watch. How about those expensive TV's.

The cable companies and phone companies seemed to do their part ok though.

By the way.. What time is it?

bearingman07936

I was reminded that the old DST went into effect last night. Had to change the clock back again. I wonder if it will be fixed by the fall?

Chas2

Don't count on it. Just turn off Auto DST and set manually

medrxman

If you just turned off the AUTO DST, the time woujld have corrected itself.

catsailr

I set mine manually and turned off the Auto DST. I noticed that sometimes the clock would be right and sometimes an hour behind. Might be because it did on my fob and not my wife's also. I haven't driven it in a while so I don't know what it is doing now.

BTW, I think next year DST starts the first Sunday in March.

Mike_TX

Is anyone else surprised this thread has gone 3 pages?

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sotiri

I'm not.
However any fix to this issue may not be needed. Apparently the effect of moving the time shift didnt give any energy savings, as people had to use more energy in the AM which offset the less need for energy in the PM.
They may actually reverse this and go back to the original plan just because there is no energy savings-one might think

Mike_TX

Jeez, I hope they don't reverse it! I love the extra daylight hour.

And after all, this wasn't really about saving energy, anyway ... people just like having more light in the afternoon and early evening.

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neuronbob

I think the whole time shifting thing is total BS. I say leave the country in DST all the time exactly for the reason you state above. I mean, did anyone think this through before it was started? Like we don't use lights early in the morning when it's darker? Jeez.

Back on topic, I leave "auto DST" off now. If and when a software patch comes out, I'll get it then. No worries!

getakey

follow up to my earlier post on different time settings for Driver 1 and 2. By the way, I'm not annoyed by the DST issue because many businesses with total real time access to their systems couldn't get it right.

I'm mostly puzzled by the time setting being different for the 2 drivers and some additional quirky behavior of the clock that happened in the last couple days. I indicated previously that I noticed that Driver 2 time did not update after I updated Driver 1 time. Here's the stranger part - I kept DST on for Driver 1 even though I updated clock when DST kicked in earlier this year. I did not change the Driver 2 time and I noticed it was 1 hour off when my wife's FOB opened the car when we she got to car first one time. I did not bother changing the time though.
So last week, when old DST time change occured, I expected Driver 1 time to move forward and be "wrong". Expectation True. So, I quickly adjusted - no big deal.
Then a few days later, same thing with FOB2 getting to car first, and since I had not updated Driver 2 time, I expected Driver 2 time to be right now since I did not update D2 time and left DST on and old DST calendar point had passed. Expectation True.

Now the strange part. Since the D2 settings were on and I was driving, I hit Memo1 to change from D2 Settings to D1 Settings. Afteer 10 seconds or so and after the seat settings, etc adjusted, the clock moved forward 1 hour and now was wrong. Somehow, swithing between D2 and D1 must have applied the DST again. I left it as is and when at destination locked the car. Then, when unlocking with FOB1, got in car - clock still wrong from the previous situation of D2 to D1. Then, (not sure how long because I wasn't watching), the clock returned to the right time.
Very strange??

BMGRAHAM

Acura told me today that a DVD update will be available in June to correct the DST issue. The Acura 2007 TL manual, which I don't have with me as I write this, gives a good technical reason (and a lousy but honest) business reason why they didn't fix it in advance.

I also love the extra hour of sunlight and I wouldn't mind it being DST all year but I certainly don't want the government to change it back to how it was before.

gdevine

I found this in owner link. Sums it all up officially.

10. The navi is not switching Daylight Savings Time correctly anymore (in March/November), or the navi is still switching the time using the old April/October daylight savings schedule. What's wrong?

A new software version will be available soon that can be loaded by your dealer to change the navi's old Daylight Savings Time schedule to the new March/November schedule

PMokover

Does Acura have a software/firmware fix for this yet? My RL is going in for service next week and I'd like to get the update if it exists.

PMokover

Can you post the exact URL of this from Owner Link. I can't find it and I want to show it to my dealer when I take my RL in for service. Thanks.

gdevine

Here is the link thru owner link. I don't know if you have to be logged in to get here.

https://store.alpine-usa.com/Acuradv.../naviorder.php

I logged into owner link then went to my RL. Then go to customer relations, the FAQ's and click on the question "When are DVD software updates available, and how can I order it."

Then click on purchase software updates online: Then click on Find out what’s new for your vehicle’s
navigation DVD update.

That will take you to a page: order a navigation system DVD update. On the left side of the page is Frequently Asked Questions about the navigation update. Click on that link. that will take you to questions. Go to question #10 which refers to the DST update.

Hope this helps

sotiri

You know, if this new version does address the DST issue, I would be willing to buy a disc and make copies for others.
I think $185 is a rip off, and presuming that my ability to copy discs even protected discs that I am able to do now, is transferable to this format, is anyone interested in copies?

SpicyMikey

I have no official position in Acurazine but I suspect allowing discussions about illegal ventures on this board can make them a party to it. You should end this thread here.

Granted, I own a software development company so I am clearly hypersensitive to the topic. However, regardless of that, copying software IS stealing and no different then any other theft. Just because it's easy to copy doesn't make it any less illegal. Besides, stealing the software just makes it that much more expensive for everyone else who ends up paying.

Do the right thing. Just pay for it and move on.

neuronbob

Afraid that talking about copies is not legal here. Hacking software you already own is OK, but copying copyrighted software, bad.

$185 IS annoying, but those of us who can afford a $40-50k car can surely afford that. That's about 60% of what an intake costs.

gdevine

Why would the dealer have to load the new software version of a navi disc? The way this is worded leads me to belive that since you have to take it to the dealer to get the software update, it must be free. Maybe the disc that the dealer has is the same version that you have with the DST issue addressed.

SpicyMikey

First, everyone needs to remind themselves that the Navi system is not manufactured by Acura. This system is manufactured by Alpine. Software updates are provided (and sold) by Alphine. on the Alphine website.

https://store.alpine-usa.com/Acuradv.../naviorder.php

Second, the DST change was not initiated by Alpine. It came from the U.S. Congress (in all their wisdom). This means the software in the integrated Alphine Navigation System that drives your local areas DST rules must be changed.

Luckily Alpine is making a fix to their software and will make it available with the next regular Navi software release (this summer). I say luckily because the Eclipse Navi system that came with my Toyota Sienna (made by Fujitsu Ten) isn't bothering to patch my system since it's not manufactured anymore (I bought it in '04, go figure).

Bottom line; Alpine is a business. If we want the update we need to pay for it. They're not a charity organization. If we want to blame someone for costing us money, blame Congress. CERTAINLY, don't blame Acura. They aren't even involved!!!

Mike_TX

Let;s not go nuts here - sure, Alpine is a business, but if you've already paid $2,000 for their product, releasing a patch for free isn't "charity". Heck, I get free patches to $20 software I own. Sure their costs should be covered, so how about charging maybe 10 bucks for a disc with the update on it, then allowing Acura dealers to "install" it (which they should do free as a courtesy to their customers).

Telling us to pay $185 for a new Nav DVD to get the patch is another way of saying we aren't gonna patch the existing software ... buy a new one. That's pretty lame.

For my money, I can change the clock manually in about 20 seconds and spend the $185 on better stuff. And I'm happy enough with the early DST changeover (thanks, Congress!) that I'll gladly do so.

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SpicyMikey

Keep in mind, this is not a "bug" in the software. This is not a fix. It's a needed "new feature" needed to support a change by Congress. Why should Acura or Alpine pay. You know what the bottom line cost will be to Alpine for them to provide free DVD's to every customer they have. I wouldn't do it for free.

Having said all that, I have to agree with one thing, if Alpine is offering a patch to the dealer that must be applied BY the dealer, then it should be free from Acura (if the car is still under warranty).

Maybe we're all mixing up the annual $185 DVD updates with this patch and don't necessarily disagree. I was basing my earlier argument on the assumption that the fix would be on the next regular DVD update which comes out each year (eventhough the website sort of implied otherwise). I don't think Alpine should be obligated to give us this years update for free simply because it has this DST change on it.

Mike_TX

Mikey, I'm not saying it's a bug, nor am I saying every owner should get a free DVD. You say you own a software company ... you know this is probably a matter of changing a couple of lines of code to reflect new execution dates. Then a short routine to overwrite the old code with the new. Not a biggie. Probably take a programmer 15 minutes.

My suggestion was to send a DVD to the dealers (and charge them for the cost of the media and the mailing, etc.), then Acura should do the update as a customer service, like maybe when you come in for your next oil change or whatever.

I don't think that's unreasonable, especially since we're talking about $50,000 cars here. In fact, Acura could capitalize on it and recover many times their small investment in time to run the adjustment routine.

If indeed Alpine is taking the snobbish position that owners should just go ahead and upgrade their mapping DVD just to get the DST correction, I think it's despicable. Especially since most owners feel that upwards of $200 is too much for updates to maps and POI's in the first place.

Whatever happened to companies actually supporting their customers in the name of good will?

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SpicyMikey

I think we're on the same side with this issue now that I understand what you're suggesting. If it's just a patch to some firmware that has nothing to do with the Nav DVD then Alpine certainly should provide the fix to Acura at no charge and Acura should apply the fix at no charge for cars under warranty. It's just good business sense and the right thing to do. As you said, it's no big deal. In fact, I'd be surprised if Acura charged us.

The website said it was software so I jumped to a conclusion that it was based on the Nav DVD. Others seemed to jump to that same conclusion and assumed they'd need to buy the new DVD for $185. The fact is, neither Acura or Alpine ever said the fix would cost anything. it just said it was be available soon from your Acura dealer. We're the ones all jumping to conclusions I suppose.

Mike_TX

Agreed.

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PMokover

The answer to question 10 says "A new software version will be available soon..." Does anyone know when "soon" means? Is it out yet? (I don't know when this FAQ was written so maybe it's out already.)

SpicyMikey

I was at the dealer this week for an alignment and they had no idea when it was coming. Again, this is more of an Alpine thing then an Acura thing. I suppose as long as it comes before October it doesn't matter.

sotiri

You know, after watching this thread... I wanted to make it clear why I was willing to copy the DVD... IT wasnt because of the $185, it was because the cost to fixing a problem (if that DVD actually addressed the DST issue) was $185, and I found that to be outragous, considering that just about all of our vehicles are in warranty, and it should have been addressed right quick by Acura or Alpine.
The fact is that usually people are willing to pay for things that are fair.
Having a $50K car that cant tell time and there the patch may cost you $185 and the car is under warranty isnt fair.
So, to me it wasnt an issue of copy protection and greed, it was annoyance to an issue that shouldnt be there, and we shouldnt have to pay to have an automobile that is under warranty- hell, even if its out of warranty, this is something that Acura/Alpine should do, and do it quick as good will.

TampaRLX-SH

Alpine is a supplier to Acura. And just as any part manufacturer, they can and should offer updates to Acura to pass onto the customers. The Alpine Navi system is not under seperate warranty, as is say, the tires. You bought it as content of an Acura. Acura should pass on the needed update. If congress suddenly decided the US was finally metric, would you not expect the manufacturers of odometers required to change the calculations of that part? And if that were so, would we consumers be expected to tract down the manufactuer of the odos? Nope,,,the auto manufacturer would be the point of contact, especially for newer, warranted models.

I expect a firmware flash will be solutioned for our systems. I expect that will be done by our service centers. I also expect they are in no hurry to do this, and likely it will trickle in based on owners' anxiety for DST auto adjust, and the rest will just fliter in on routine service calls at the conveniance of the dealerships. Meanwhile there are likely operational updates and negaotiations being done between Acura and Alpine as to how to manage and perform appropriate firmware flashing.

neuronbob

I agree 100% with you here in that this is a problem that could have been addressed well ahead of time, and should be handled at no cost. Until that happens, like most people here, I'm content for now with a manual fix, but want everything to work automatically eventually.

SpicyMikey

Sorry to revive a topic that was finally quieting down, but, I saw this text in my Nav User's manual that made me thing this in indeed a fix that must come on the Alphine Nav DVD NOT some firmware fix that can be uploaded by your Acura dealer. In that case, I'm not going to hold my breath that they will give us a DVD update at no charge. here's the aforementioned text;

Nav Userid page 101: At the time your navi DVD was produced, the navi is programmed to change its clock in April/October. The dates that the navi switches between standard and daylight savings time are stored in the navi software, and is not triggered by GPS satellite signals. Therefore your navi clock will change
based on the old daylight savings time schedule (April/October).

vagabond

I just got off the telephone with Acura Client Services (6 June 07) [1-800-382-2238].

They told me that there is a software upgrade disk which is being sent out to Acura dealerships now, and the dealerships should have the disks by mid-June 2007. The representative told me that I should wait until late June or the beginning of July and contact the dealership for updating the Navigation software.

The representative put me on hold so he could verify this information.

It looks like Acura may have finally addressed a three-year old problem.

calvin_hobbes

Sorry for the ignorant question, but do dealers typically charge for updating navigation software?

jftjr

The annual updated dvd's are about $180... but that covers map updates and Zagat's. They're not warranty items.