PeterL1

Wow! What a negative review based on a 2005 RL that in my opinion, does not represent the average. This article will do nothing to improve RL sales.
I have a 2005 RL, just hit 10,000 miles and I still look foward to any reason to drive it. Have only performed the software updates, 1 oil change and replaced the tires, my choice.
Could not be happier with my car.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Do you have a scan or a link?

jhr3uva90

Does Acura really want to sell this car? Damn!

lindros2

Seeing as I won't get my C&D until mid-month (the Atlanta USPS loves to read my magazines for a week or two before delivering) I'd like to see it [scanned] as well...

Treblig

Despite all of the problems they experienced, it remained one of the most popular and sought after cars of the Car & Driver staff. I think that says a lot.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Can someone please detail what the problems they experienced were?

All this vagueness is pretty .

ilas

Ouch, Car and Driver was one magazine that truly loved the 05 RL. Maybe Acura rushed the car into production? I have not read about many complaints from 06 RL owners, so lets hope they fixed most of the glitches from 05 model year.

deandorsey

deandorsey

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Thank you deandorsey

Regardless, I read the article and it sounds to me like they unfortunately got a rare problem car. Of course, they still praised the car as being a great drive an as having an excellent interior. In fact, they liked it so much that they still readily endorse it.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and I just read Tony Swan's comment on the keyless ignition system. Is he dumb or something? There's no question about where to stow the key fob. You just leave it in your pocket. There is no need to ever remove the keyfob from your pocket unless you're opening the trunk or door from a distance.

jftjr

With the exception of the window switch, the problems described by the article are problems plaguing pretty much all of the early 05 RL's.

Thing that gets me, though, is that Audis and Mercedes have these same sort of annoyances, and the car mags either gloss over them or simply accept them.

Why should they accept something in an $80K car that is a niggling annoyance in a $50K one? I guess that three-pointed thing on the hood that they paid the extra $20K for makes them feel better....

1HOT NSX

I couldn't agree with you more!

I also believe, many of the glitches they had were dealer caused due mainly to the incompetence of the Acura "techs" working on the car. I can't believe the second trip for the sunroof was really necessary - the tech just screwed up. I also believe some of the other stuff like the trim coming lose on the headliner probably had something to do with the disassembly job they did to get to the sunroof motor. Let them do the TSBs and they screw things up too.

This is terrible for future Acura sales. People read C&D and R&T when they make decisions of this kind and this is sure going to hurt sales. Pretty unfair to Acura, considering the fact that today's MBs and BMWs are 10 times more unreliable with serious stuff and they would never get a negative article like this from any of these publications. Do you remember when M3 engines were blowing up left and right for no apparent reason? Or when the 7 series had major engine replacements when they decided to switch to a different type of cylinder construction? MBs leave you stranded all the time, they are possesed by electrical gremlins - ask any owner of the new E500 or S500 to tell you their stories.

ilas

Another positive note: check our their acceleration times. Maybe they are doing funny things with the torque converter, but these times are very competitive with other cars and in many cases are better.

jhr3uva90

Looking forward to reading this article.

Is it me, or is there just a pro-European car bias in most car magazines? Not only will they gloss over defects in German cars, but a Japanese car has to be vastly superior (like the Infiniti M) before these car magazines consider it almost as good as a German car (like the BMW 5-series). And I don't care what Lexus does with the IS or Infiniti doe with the G, the car magazines will always worship the 3-series and that's all there is to it.

Oops, sorry for the rant.

jhr3uva90

Oh yeah, I agree on the Acura dealership issue. I wish Acura corporate could just clamp down on the dealerships. Maybe Acura corporate needs to send a rep to each dealership to inspect the place and do some quality control?

ilas

The magazines all argue that German cars have souls and Japanese cars do not. Read MTs buyers guide for the RL, it says "tons of tech but where's the soul?". Because of this perceived passion effect, the press and consumers overlook the glitches and problems that German cars are infamous for. The lack of "passion" built into Japanese cars means that they must be mechanically perfect or else they have little other value.

So, I guess a factory worker in Japan has less enthusiasm or passion than a factory worker in Germany making similar wages and doing similar tasks. Moreover, I suppose that German engineers are more passionionate about their work than engineers from the US or Japan? If Honda engineers were all robots, why would Acura and Honda cars have some cool things that get the senses going. This kind of stuff is moronic, and it amazes me how people buy it (before any German car fan flames me, I have owned three german cars, and one was a BMW 3 series from 1995 that was in the shop constantly for engine and cooling problems until I dumped it). The crazy thing is that people believe this crap.

Sorry I went on a longer rant!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I never understood the concept of soul in a car. If a soul in a car means that it breaks down once a month, then I'll pass. And honestly, I'v driven more MBs and BMWs than I'd care to remember and not one has really anymore "soul" than any other car I've driven.

jftjr

I think, at least where C&D and MT are concerned, it comes down to advertising dollars spent in the magazine.

Automobile is a little better... but not that much.

But really... it's only very recently that Japanese cars have provided evidence of being able to evoke passionate driving. Driving a Toyota is as bland an experience as can be had now a days... and until the current incarnation of the GS and IS, so was Lexus. And the big Lexus is still boring as hell, no matter how nice it may be. Infinity has always been a little more sporting, but again -- except for the first G, and the current G, it hasn't exactly been an electrifying ride.

I've driven all the Germans. I grew up driving Alfa Romeos and MG's. There's always some elusive quality about a fine European automobile that the Japanese have never been able to capture.

That being said, I love my Acura, because it comes closest to that experience out of all the Japanese brands I've driven... and because I don't feel like ponying up $65K for something built by elves in the Black Forest.

hothonda

I will say that sometimes articles like these get the manufacturers "customer service" depts. to re-examine their level of committment....whether you've had problems or not, the RL is quite a bargain for $50K!

ilas

I do agree that advertising dollars drive car magazines a bit, because the editor always makes changes to the articles written by the testers before production.

Oh, and I have an idea. We just need to think differently about our Acuras and stop trying to be rational. After all, is it not true that Acuras embody the souls of thousands of ninjas past. The RL was made in a factory with a view of the mountains in Saitama prefecture (check out Google Earth, you can zoom right into the sayama factory in high resolution - pretty cool). Clearly those nearby mountains had nijas in them hundreds of years ago. I'm going to start calling my car the white ninja. Now, there's passion for you!

bearcat2000

I agree as well, it must have been a very very early car. It would be completely different if they were talking about stuff that all of us have experienced. Oh, and that Tony guy must be an idiot to not know how keyless access works.

jhr3uva90

I have to agree on the keyless igntions, though. A START/STOP button would have made it idiot proof. I was at an auto shop getting the oil changed a couple of weeks ago (NOTE: not an Acura dealer) and the people there did not know how to turn the car on or off and of course they didn't turn it all the way off.

By the way, I think Acura should offer some free maintainance.

eaRL

Good point. Other than this there were no gripes about the interior fit and finish. I also like the multiple times they mentioned the widespread appeal of it with other C&D folks.

Rob L

Agreed. Guy sounds like an idiot if he doesnt know wtf to put the fob. sheesh

Anyone who thinks keyless systems are useless has some problems...IMO that is.



Anyway, sounds like they got a semi-lemon cuz my car doesn't have those issues but it is OBVIOUS they lovethe car even if this one ahd problems. I also find it funny the 0-60 times were tested that low but doubt all the peeps saying " it is too slow" will care. Oh well.

Oh and the car's soul stuff (mentioend in some previous posts) is IMO retarded.

I also disagree with the guy that said every Lexus until new GS and IS were boring. People flat out FORGET the last gen IS or never drove it and assumed it was typical Lexus smooth ride and stuff...having OWNED it for 4.5 years and now the RL for 14 months I can tell you the RL handles like my IS300 did. If the RL is fun to drive or whatever then by SIMPLE LOGIC the old IS is too. Anyone who disagrees with this is flat out biased and their opinion is truthfully worthless.

All I know is I love my RL and it is a great car and seems hard to beat as an overall package.

oh some added notes:

-I dont see how people have probs turning the car off. you turn the thing until it cant go any farther. SIMPLE. If you ahve stereo on it wont turn off if the car isnt fully off. The steering wheel doesnt power up if the car isn't off. It's sooooooooooooo simple I shake my head when I see peeps have problems.

-I used to think start/stop buttons seemed kinda silly but after using one in new Lexus GS and IS I do like it. If given choice I'd have wanted it instead but I do not have issues with the RL switch so no biggie.

-Acura offers two shortcomings peeps there in U.S. bish about: 3 yr "free" maintenance and ventilated seats.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The IS has always been the exception to the rule. It was Lexus's first real attempt at going after BMW. The new GS and IS are actually both a step back from the sportiness established by the last gen IS. Both new cars are actually very softly sprung and aimed at comfortable ride as opposed to true sporty cars.

jftjr

It also would make it impossible to start if the keyless system malfunctioned. Besides, if you are capable of earning enough money to drive a $50K car, one would presume you're not an idiot. I don't want my car to be idiot proof, thanks.

Oh? And how much of an increased sticker price would you be willing to pay for that free maintenance?

Because...there ain't no such thing as FREE maintenance. There's a higher sticker price, and "included" maintenance.

jftjr

Hey, good reasoning -- if my bias doesn't agree with YOUR bias, then my opinion is worthless.

Simple logic, huh? Sounds like someone needs a refresher course on their Aristotle.

jhr3uva90

Lexus knows its customers!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

An equivalent BMW will cost nearly $10k more. It only cost C/D $427 dollars in maintenance costs for the entire duration of their ownership. Even if you drove the car 100k miles during a 4 year ownership period, you couldn't rack up $10k worth of maintenance costs.

jhr3uva90

Lexus and Infiniti both have ways of starting the car if the keyless systems malfunctioned. And I'm not worried about me starting and stopping the car, I'm worried about valets, garage attendants, etc. for those of us who lives in cities where such people are necessary. And you can't teach the valet or attendent because s/he might not be there when you leave.

ilas

the difference in cost between a BMW and RL is even more in present value terms, which matters in car purchases.

mrdeeno

I think with all the electronics in cars nowadays, there's a lot more I'd be worried about than the car not starting due to a malfunctioning pushbutton...abs, vsa, drive-by-wire, srs, ebd, eba, etc. The start button's probably one of the more reliable parts.

I actually think the column switch on the RL is more idiot-proof than the M's, considering more people will be used to cars that required turning a switch on the steering column or similar. Pushing a button is pretty new, but chances are easier to push it one too many times and go from 'ON' to 'OFF' and back to 'ACC' without realizing it.

They do idiot proof the pushbutton in the M pretty well though. If you forget to turn it to the 'OFF' position, it'll make noises when you get out.

I'd assume the RL has somekind of warning chime if you don't turn the switch all the way to 'OFF'.

can anyone tell me if you can turn the RL off while in motion? i know i tried it on the M and you can't turn the car off if it's moving (or in drive?)...probably because they don't want you hitting the button by accident and locking the steering.

A thing I didn't like about the RL was the keyfob design. It's much heavier than the Infiniti fob and has no "design"...it's just functional. i haven't seen the lexus fob so won't comment, but I think Acura should've spent a little more money designing a better looking fob, for instance...a fob shaped like the elongated 'A' in the acura logo. It's the luxury segment, small things go a long way!

mrdeeno

i don't think it matters too much to most of these buyers.

It's like when you buy a honda and get a 3yr/36k mile warranty, but when you buy an acura you get a 4yr/50k warranty...you pay the premium for it in the sales price, but you think you got an "extra" year and some miles.

It's just another way of differentiating the "premium" brands from the "regular" brands.

I think Acura should play this game too...estimate what the price for regular maintenance would be and just add the actual cost to the MSRP, then "include" this maintenance for free. It'll give them something to remind buyers how they're "being taken care of" by Acura, and also not rip them off as much as the euro's do.

But I think this would piss off the dealerships who recommend 3000 mile oil changes, even if the car doesn't need it.

jftjr

The worst part about the key fob? When you pull the key out, there's no hole to hang it up!

This is the biggest valet problem there is...

Valet is no problem in the Acura, and you don't ever need a separate valet key with their system -- just open the glovebox, flip the switch to "lock" and then close and lock the glovebox with the key. Take the key with you out of the remote, and leave the remote with the valet.

I use valet parking pretty much 3-4 days a week (between Philadelphia and Atlantic City) and I've never had one valet have an issue with it. One time, the valet had never seen one, and he just asked me to explain to him how it worked.... the explanation took 15 seconds.

RLdriver

Yeah, he obviously doesn't carry a briefcase to the office and have to load young kids with all their school stuff in the car every morning. THAT's where the beauty of not fumbling with key/remote lies.

jhr3uva90

DC valets are to surly and stupid to ask how anything works. They would much rather drain your battery. Besides, the guy who parked the car in the morning definitely won't be there in the afternoon, so explaining it doesn't help that much.

lindros2

I normally agree with C&D, and unfortunately you can't refute fact (sunroof going out twice). Honestly I had that problem on my Audi S4 and it would have cost me $1100 but fortunately white silicone grease fixed it (against the recommendation of the dealer, I might add).

My only issues with the RL are:

1. Drivers's Seat -- it DOES feel over-lumbared in my car. Compared to everything. It's probably not the AMOUNT, rather than the POSITION. Hell, if a Cadillac DTS can have vertical lumbar adjustment (in addition to amount of lumbar support), why can't the RL?

2. Fit and Finish -- leaps and bounds beyond the TL, but still the doors don't "align" with the dashboard. Cigarette lighter also "sticks," a common issue. C'mon, Acura/Honda.

3. Wheels -- I understand the target demographic for this car is a bit older than me (31), but can Acura PLEASE provide a frigging wheel option package? A swap to 18" wheels/tires (average size by today's standards, btw) is $2500+, and then looks out of place with the standard suspension. Optional wheels are available at a FRACTION of that on BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti - hell, even on Porsche...

4. Navigation Knob -- What is wrong with the touch-screen on the TL?

5. HVAC -- My car is warm - no cold - no warm - no cold... and then the lack of true dual-zone (it's solely dual-temp)

6. No climate-controlled seats -- Why does the Canadian version have cooled seats? In this market segment it seems like a necessary option.

7. No fold-down seats -- Same rant as the TL.

8. No SIRIUS option -- Why not? Because Honda has its hand in the XM cookie jar. Give me SIRIUS and keep OnStar.

-josh

Treblig

1. Even if you adjust the lumbar?

2. I think they fixed the cig lighter with the '06. Unless of course your car is an '06.

3. I agree! I think the A-Spec wheel should be the standard wheel or atleast, as you have stated, a no charge option.

4. I believe the screen is too far away to make touch screen practical.

5. So far the temp in my car has been consistent. So far. Yeah, coming from a TL, I am really disappointed that at this price point the climate control system isn't dual mode as advertised Actually, that is inexcusable.

6. Never had the pleasure, but I'm sure it would be.

7. Never really missed this option in the TL or the RL.

8. In the absence of any Sirius experience, XM works.

RLdriver

Me personally, I immensely prefer the knob. Touchscreens have no tactile feedback, which is not so great when driving. Had a '99 TL with touchscreen nav, and I hated it primarily because it was a touchscreen.