Buyers shifting away from V-8
#41
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by dwboston
The whole V-8 thing may be moot in the next 10 years or so due to environmental regulations and CAFE standards. The insurance companies are also beginning to gravitate towards horsepower limitations, arguing that there are correlations between higher HP and higher insurance losses. And we all know that lobbying by big corporations trumps consumer needs or wants most of the time in this country. I'm just shocked it took this long to become an issue. See linked article below from the WSJ online (via Yahoo).
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/a...on-Horsepower?
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/a...on-Horsepower?
It's like the old "speed kills" myth. Speed can contribute to certain accidents (due to longer braking times, etc.), and increase severity (due to impact forces), but you can expect to be just as dead if you hit a bridge abutment at 55mph as you will if you hit it at 75.
Statistics are often skewed by using speed as a "contributing factor" to accidents. That just means the car was moving at the time it happened. Heck, you could just as accurately say breathing was a contributing factor, since the drivers were both breathing at the time.
There is a Latin phrase that sums it up - "Post hoc ergo propter hoc", meaning that just because something follows something else does not mean the first thing caused the second one. (The rooster crowing doesn't cause the sun to rise.)
Horsepower doesn't cause accidents ... people cause accidents.
.
.
#42
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
Horsepower doesn't cause accidents ... people cause accidents.
Nothing personal, but I find it kind of comical that you and NavyDoc hang out here so much after getting rid of your Acuras for Lexuses. Hell, his Lexus has been in the shop for 6 weeks but he'll post every 5 minutes telling us how great it is and how Acura sucks.
![HaHa](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/haha.gif)
#43
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 46
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
I don't have any numbers so I can't say anything with any authority here but causation isn't necessary for correlation. If you were to look at the numbers and see that cars with more than 300 hp (to pick a number) were involved in a higher rate of accidents than those bellow that cut off, what does it matter (from the insurance company's point of view) if the power output of that car was a causative factor in those accidents?
From their point of view, the power output of your vehicle is a predictor of your chances of being involved in an accident and that's all they need to know. Of course there are other factors that go into the whole equation, your age, where you live, your driving record and so on but that doesn't remove all the indicated risk of the high output vehicle.
From their point of view, the power output of your vehicle is a predictor of your chances of being involved in an accident and that's all they need to know. Of course there are other factors that go into the whole equation, your age, where you live, your driving record and so on but that doesn't remove all the indicated risk of the high output vehicle.
#44
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by dwboston
No kidding Mike, but facts don't stop activists and lobbyists from trying to get "nanny state" type laws enacted for the benefit of their clients and constituents. Rationally there isn't really a connection between HP and accidents or fatalities. But a weakened domestic auto industry may not be able to fight this stuff off forever.
Nothing personal, but I find it kind of comical that you and NavyDoc hang out here so much after getting rid of your Acuras for Lexuses. Hell, his Lexus has been in the shop for 6 weeks but he'll post every 5 minutes telling us how great it is and how Acura sucks.![HaHa](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/haha.gif)
Nothing personal, but I find it kind of comical that you and NavyDoc hang out here so much after getting rid of your Acuras for Lexuses. Hell, his Lexus has been in the shop for 6 weeks but he'll post every 5 minutes telling us how great it is and how Acura sucks.
![HaHa](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/haha.gif)
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I certainly don't think Acura sucks at all. My RL was probably the most overall competent car I've owned in years. Not perfect, or I'd still have it, but it had more things "right" about it than any car in recent memory.
.
.
#45
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by LukeaTron
I don't have any numbers so I can't say anything with any authority here but causation isn't necessary for correlation. If you were to look at the numbers and see that cars with more than 300 hp (to pick a number) were involved in a higher rate of accidents than those bellow that cut off, what does it matter (from the insurance company's point of view) if the power output of that car was a causative factor in those accidents?
From their point of view, the power output of your vehicle is a predictor of your chances of being involved in an accident and that's all they need to know. Of course there are other factors that go into the whole equation, your age, where you live, your driving record and so on but that doesn't remove all the indicated risk of the high output vehicle.
From their point of view, the power output of your vehicle is a predictor of your chances of being involved in an accident and that's all they need to know. Of course there are other factors that go into the whole equation, your age, where you live, your driving record and so on but that doesn't remove all the indicated risk of the high output vehicle.
For example, luxury sedans with more than your cited 300hp are not involved in accidents at a higher rate than cars with lower hp ... quite the contrary, in fact. Insurance underwriters like luxury sedans.
But sports cars or "performance cars" with more than 300hp are indeed considered more risky. The reason, though, is that these cars are often owned by younger drivers, drivers who tend to show off, or race, or otherwise drive recklessly or aggressively. And the power-to-weight ration is usually greater in these cars than in lux sedans.
The bottom line, though, is the rate at which cars are involved in accidents, and the insurance losses associated with them. Corvettes and WRX STi's get higher rates than RL's because they're a greater underwriting risk, not because of their horsepower ratings. Even if the RL got bumped to 350hp, it would still be a better underwriting risk than a pimped-out Civic.
.
.
#46
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 46
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Hah. Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was trying to convey. I guess what you were saying in your earlier post is "yes, insurance companies see bigger engines as an increased risk factor even though the bigger engine isn't the cause of the accident." I agree with that statement.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SidhuSaaB
3G TL Problems & Fixes
18
05-30-2020 12:40 AM
rp_guy
Member Cars for Sale
9
07-16-2017 07:33 AM
joflewbyu2
5G TLX (2015-2020)
139
10-08-2015 11:16 AM
Yumcha
Automotive News
1
09-25-2015 06:14 PM
Hines57
Car Parts for Sale
0
09-24-2015 01:58 PM