aprikh2

I am getting ready to perform a full brake service on my RL, which will involve replacing brake disks, pads, and fluid. What is the general consensus on using OEM vs. aftermarket brake disks? I do not race my car, but braking performance is extremely important to me from a safety perspective. I am also not interested in paying extra for any special features such as cross drilling.

I checked all of the site sponsors and found that XLR8 has some StopTech premium rotors for a very reasonable price. I will not mention the exact cost, since many forums frown upon that, but here is the link…

http://store.excelerateperformance.c...s/g-61615.aspx

So should I jump on the StopTechs or look for a cheaper alternative? If someone has replaced their brake disks recently and can recommend a vendor/ product, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

white05rl

I just went through the whole "brake thing" although just for the fronts.

I elected to go with EBC rotors (slotted and drilled) and EBC Red-stuff pads. If I had to do it all over again, I would have just done the pads and not the more expensive rotors.

If you're looking for "stock type" replacement, go to Tirerack.com. They have replacement OEM type rotors by Centric for $63ea/front:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...5&autoModClar=

I'd highly encourage you to consider the EBC Red-stuff pads:
https://www.modacar.com/products/EBC...270-21508.html
They are about $75 and well worth it (NO squeaks/squeals, NO dust and INCREDIBLE BITE).

23109VC

if you get cheapy rotors.. make sure the hats are coated ins omething or painted. if you get cheap rotors, the hats are usually NOT coated and they will rust. it will look like crap.

the OEM rotors have a gray coating all over the hats so they look nice.

the "hat" is the part where the studs come out / the face that the wheel actually bolts up to. you can see part of it behind the wheels. it would look tacky ona high end car like the RL to ahve rusty rotor hats.

on a previous car I paid a ton of money to put on two piece flaoting rotors with aluminum hats. it was probably a waste of money.. i ddin't notice any increase in performance of any kind. they looked cool, that was it.

i'd stick with OEM brakes, they work fine. you aren't tracking the car right?

sleepinxlionhart

Has anyone noticed like lines in their rotors? I've noticed them on my rear rotors that there are a couple well defined lines/grooves going along in the rotors that I can feel with my finger. I find it it odd because I still have a really good amount of life left on the brake pads and they're still the original ones.

alfadoctor

Usually lines in a rotor face come from rocks or small stones being caught between the pad and the rotor face. As you press on the pad it digs into the face of the rotor. Not much braking power is lost, but it sure looks bad. Should the groove be to deep after machining you will probably have to get new rotors.

EL19

iTrader: (4)

Stock brakes suck. This boat needs a little better biting power. I plan on doing ebc slotted rotors and red stuff pads. Anytime I've gone to slotted rotors on a car, I never had to chnage the rotors again. And thats over 100K on each vehicle with me driving them quite spiritedly

rtr

My brakes are killer. Centric premeum rotors custom sloted and Carbotech pads. And prices are good

aprikh2

I picked up some OEM brake disks from a fellow forum member for a pretty good price, so looks like I will be using those. As far as the brake disks, I will most likely go with the StopTech premium brake disks. The cost is only a few dollars more than the Centrix, and I have dealt with StopTech before and enjoyed their product.

Tomorrow I will have my car undergo a Road Force wheel balance, if this resolves my high speed vibration issues, most likely I will forego changing my rotors unless they are at the end of life. Speaking of which, at what thickness should the stock rotors be changed?

I also picked-up some new tools to aid with the brake job. Mainly I just needed an excuse A MigtyVac 6835 from Amazon to help me bleed my brakes, a Milwaukee cordless 1/2” impact, and a digital torque wrench. Can’t wait to use all of these shiny new toys!

Wish me luck…

oo7spy

Your first two sentences are very confusing.

alfadoctor

Road Force Balancer I had never heard of so I researched it and found out where locally I can get a factory balance. My rotors are going to need to be turned and new pads here pretty soon. This thread has been good for me.

037

I've had pretty good experience with StopTech slotted rotors and Satisfied GranSport 6 pads. The stopping power is much much better.

I got an extra set of front pads if anyone is interested as I'm selling the car and it seems pieces will sell better vs giving it away with the car.

aprikh2

Ha ha my apologies. I meant to say I picked up some brake pads from a fellow forum member, and I was planning to use brake disks from StopTech.

Anyway, I got the car back from the Road Force wheel balance, and I have two wheels that are bent. One of them pretty severely. So it looks like the high-speed vibration is caused by the bent wheels and not warped brake disks, so I will only replace the brake disks if they are worn.

aprikh2

Yep a Road Force Balance is great to diagnose vibration problems. The machine has the capability to determine whether there is a problem with the tire or a bent wheel. Pretty neat.

theNHBRL

so i have been looking around my area nd didnt find a place that would do this, live in md. also i have had a problem with my old tl's rotors they were drilled slotted and felt a lot of vibration when stopping. it was a whole yr though that i havent changed the brake pads, could that have been the answer? i plan on getting the same kit for my rl but when that happened i am not sure. but i see the red stuff looks good but doesnt hold agains cold cold weather.

NJ06RL

Restarting this thread on rotors cos I am looking for some advice. Bought a set of slotted rotors from R1concepts with posi quiet ceramic pads. Just had them professionally installed at my regular mechanic who has done previous brake jobs for me on another car with no issues. I just did the front because I think my original OEM front rotors were slightly warped after about 70k miles.

Results are terrible. The slight vibration I used to get at highway speeds with the slightly warped OEMs have become much worse vibration so the whole front of the car shakes a little when I am slowing down to take a highway ramp.

I doubt the mechanic is at fault - have used him for years and he did the same job on another car we own recently with no issues. I doubt the pads are an issue because I have the exact same brand of pads (posi quiet ceramic) on another car and they are great. So does this mean I got a bum set of brand new slotted rotors ?

Thing is I did buy a set of rotors and pads from r1concepts for another car recently and those are performing just fine ...

Trying to figure out what I should do next. Any views appreciated.

theNHBRL

well if you are stepping on the brake hard already after an install of course there will be a vibrations. you are supposed to drive calm for about 1000miles as well as bed the brakes to make it better. here is info on bedding. http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

NJ06RL

Thanks for the link. The rotors and pads came with instructions on bedding and I did those already. They were generally similar to what was in the link. That is why I am getting concerned that I still have vibration and shuddering.

BDoggPrelude

Let me clear up some braking myths for you guys. First off, the average driver...even the average spirited driver, is never going to see the added benefits of slotted and/or cross drilled rotors. These types of rotors are designed to reduce brake fade on the track. In normal to spirited daily driving your brakes are not going to build up the amount of heat and gases produced by continuous heavy braking. Unless you are tracking your car or driving down canyon roads constantly they just don't heat up enough to utilize a cross drilled or slotted rotor design.

For most peoples' uses, including pretty much everybody in this particular forum, the slots and holes in the brake rotor actually decrease your initial bite because they technically have less surface area for the pad to bite down on.

No matter how you look at it a slotted or drilled rotor is going to be weaker structurally to a blank rotor of the same material. They are more like to warp or stress crack than a solid blank rotor.

Slotted rotors in particular also chew through brake pads quicker. The edge they create is constantly "shaving" the pad as you're braking compared to the smoother continuous surface offered by a solid rotor.

If you want more bite from your brakes spend your money on high quality pads from a company like EBC or Hawk. Just keep in mind that brakes are like everything else, to gain one thing you have to lose another. Generally more bite comes with added squeal and dust and faster pad and rotor wear.

Trust me on this when I say I've been down this road before. I purchased a PowerSlot rotor setup for my Prelude that I was daily driving and autocrossing on the weekends. The rotors did absolutely nothing for the car. Whether it was on the track or street there was no noticeable difference in performance from the solid rotors to the slotted ones. It just hit my wallet a lot harder. After about 20,000 miles the rotors were showing signs of stress cracking and I realized it was all just a huge waste of money. In fact, if you talk to guys that spend a lot of time at the track many of them will tell you that they run AutoZone Duralast rotors with performance pads.

Brakes are also just like tires and clutches when you get a new setup. 90% of the time the product that you were replacing was at the end of its life cycle and not performing the way they used to. You didn't really notice the change because it was so subtle over the many thousands of miles that you used them and you just slowly adjusted your driving while they slowly changed. Then all of sudden you replace those worn items with something brand new and of course it puts the old worn out stuff to shame. That doesn't mean that new vs. new they are better. The new items are just better than your old gear after all the life had been sucked out of it.

I know the slotted and drilled brakes look really cool and all on the car and if that's what you want them for then by all means fork over the dough. If the look isn't everything to you and you can find another place to spend that extra few hundred dollars I highly suggest you save your money. Just get a name-brand quality set of pads and rotors and keep the extra money for other mods or use it to buy your wife/girlfriend a nice Christmas present.

rlx015

I think you just explained that all super-sport cars makers are bit stupid since they put drilled or slotted or both -type of rotors on their Bentleys, Lambos, Vettes, Porsches, Beemers, MBs, etc...

I think you read too much about it how it works and got bit confused.

Note: I had drilled / slotted rotors with red stuff and cut my stopping distance by tens of feet; and yes those brakes did last shorter than stock ones - but it was biting like crazy...

Nothing personal here - but even if someone did not know anything would conclude that there must be a reason why big name car makers use this rotor technology - wouldn't you agree on that?

white05rl

Okay, back to NJ06RL's issue. I'm not the expert, but I DO know what his problem is - HUB RUN-OUT ISSUE. I recently replaced my rotors (and pads) with EBC USB (slotted) rotors and things went from silky smooth (with OEM) to rough and terrible vibrations. I did all the break-in procedures correctly and that didn't matter. EBC replaced the rotors with a new set due to my complaints. It's noteworthy that they said all along that the problem wasn't their rotors it was "hub run-out". Sure enough, I installed the new set (slotted and dimpled this time) and had the same problem. So, I did my own research and decided to pursue what they recommended - having the front rotors "pro cut" to resolve hub run-out.

Guess what, everything is almost as smooth as OEM but with better initial "bite" and improved braking performance...all without the nasty vibrations. My local Acura Dealer "cut/turned" the new rotors (no one else would do them since they are slotted/dimpled).

Here's a link that might be useful to you:
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/pro_cut_lathe.shtml

From the information in the link, "This means you have purchased new rotors in good faith but the problem IS NOT SOLVED AND WILL NOT GO AWAY PERMANENTLY until you perform this procedure".

Good luck and keep us posted!

BDoggPrelude

If you read through my entire post you would find that I didn't dispute anything you are saying. I don't doubt that the EBC pads greatly reduced the stopping distance from your previous setup. It's not the rotors. Stopping distance is all related to the pads. The performance rotors only reduce fade during CONTINUOUS heavy braking scenarios, such as on a track or going down a winding canyon road.

As for PERFORMANCE cars coming with slotted/drilled rotors, you're talking about vehicles that leave the showroom race/track ready. These cars are put to the test by magazine editors and test drivers all over the world on actual race tracks where they undergo continuous threshold braking. It is these situations where slotted/drilled rotors will make a difference. Porsche can't sell a "track ready" performance car at that kind of asking price with brakes that fade after one lap around the track, can they?

My previous statements are still valid. Unless you are taking your RL to Laguna Seca Raceway you will never see the benefits of slotted/drilled rotors.

white05rl

BDoggPrelude - what about, Improvement in brake output from drilled rotors is the subject of SAE paper 2006-01-0691 "SAE 2006-01-0691 " The Effect of Rotor Crossdrilling on Brake Performance"

Bottom line is they help cool the rotor better than just a blank or slotted rotor. They talk in more detail why and how. However, it has to be properly designed and too many holes will kill the performance. Cross drilled holes pretty much add about 20% of air into the cooling veins depending on design. In some you can add even more and there is another paper by Brembo that talks about this.

Anyhow, the paper shows that the crossdrilled rotor performs better in panic wet events (not in low pressure low temp wet events) and that it generates more friction in many dry cases, even race cars. Also, it redues glazing, pedal travel (because of higher friction) and some more."

white05rl

Here's the link for more information:
http://www.tazcobra.com/SAE_2006010691_Synopsis.pdf

NJ06RL

Thanks for all the view guys. Back to my issue. So it has been two days and I have done the bed down process for my ceramic pads and new slotted rotors about 4 times over in the last two days. Good news is there has been improvement. Vibration is quite a bit less than when first installed. But the bad news is there remains some vibration when braking from about 75 or 80 mph. Just a lot less than on day 1.

I will probably wait another two weeks with normal driving to see if things settle down. If not, I will start looking into the pro-cut process described above.

Any other suggestions or thoughts appreciated.

BDoggPrelude

Here's what I basically got out of that article:

-Cross drilled/slotted rotors cool the brakes better. That's a given.
-They performed slightly better in wet conditions.
-They improved average braking distances under repeated testing.

Again, I never disputed any of this. You can remove your hood and front bumper and drive all over town and guess what, you'll probably see slightly lower engine temperatures. Are you going to see a noticeable increase in performance from your motor? No. Your brakes, just like your engine, are designed to work within a large range of operating temperatures. Blank rotors operate well within this range.

Your brakes are not going to undergo these types of situations. When was the last time you had to bring your car to a dead stop from 80mph under heavy braking 5 times within a 5-10 minute window? Probably never.

If you look around through forums where people actually know what they're talking about when it comes to performance and function over form, you'll constantly see blank rotors recommended over cross drilled/slotted. My brother worked an internship with a winning World Challenge race team and they used blank rotors...and that was on an actual track.

I'm not going to go back and forth about this. I wouldn't expect the majority of people on a forum littered with staggered setups and stretched tires on FWD based vehicles to understand anything about practicality or function over form. If you want to waste money on perceived performance go right ahead.

Infa05 RL

Hey guys whats up.. i have a little problem, i currently ordered the ebc usr and the redstuff pads, but i havent been succesful on getting the rear pads.. do you guys know any other website or dealer that might have them? i have tried every website i can think of, including the ones you guys posted... Any help is appreciated Thanks