fstshrk

Here are my gripes/suggestions for improvements on the transmission & its software for my 08 RL:

* Leave the torque converter locked-up in all gears until very low RPM. I hate it when I am cruising in traffic, lift off the gas and see the RPMs drop to 700 as soon as I lift off the gas.

* Shifting paddles should remain active in all modes. I hate needing to flip to the left side before I can use them.

* Completely rework the software shifting algorithms. The car feels sluggish from a rolling start because the transmission thinks it is mated to a big V8 and does not downshift until the gas is hammered and then not very smoothly either. It shifts way too early to 4th and 5th gears when cruising and then again feels slow when part-throttle is used.

* When braking, like all modern automatics from MB, BMW and even GM, downshift the transmission automatically and hold the gear. Leave the torque converter locked up so that I can brake for a turn, have the car downshift and then power out of the corner without hurting the weight transfer with an untimely shift.


If you think these will hurt fuel economy, then put a sport mode button on the tranny and have these implemented in sport mode. And have the user have the option of choosing sport mode as the default by pressing and holding the sport mode for 10 seconds.

Better yet, fire the team that wrote this software and hire me instead so I can fix it myself

db22

It was probably the same idiot that wrote the code for the chimes, the MID and most of the screen displays in the RL. I'm with you fstshrk, fire 'em all. There is significant evidence that many of the design team cannot drive.

kirbyflorida

I believe we know for sure that there will be down rev matching and active paddles all the time.

Ibn Rushd

Weird...the RL doesn't auto downshift? I never noticed that....Then again, i only know that my 3.2 TL and EL do it... never noticed it in the RL and MDX...but if that's the case, i agree.

Mike_TX

What the heck does that mean? If it didn't "auto downshift" you'd stay in 5th gear all the time. Of course it automatically downshifts depending on vehicle speed and load.

As far as torque converter lockup is concerned, I don't think you'll find a production AT that keeps the converter locked up until "very low RPMs". I've had many of them (including a number of BMW's) and they all unlocked when coasting.

You'll find some that hang onto lockup a little longer (my IS350 was a good example) and half the time people call it flaring and raise all kinds of hell about it. If you want that kind of performance, you need to keep it in manual mode or get car with a DSG or other manual box.

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DoctorTuna

I'm still baffled as to why people buy a 50K car and then complain because it isn't a different car!! It is what it is people. When a car company comes out with a car that appeals to each and every persons preference on everything from downshift timing to seat contour to suspension setup to gear ratios to engine displacement to electronic function to steering wheel design to torque converters to adnauseum then I guess we'll all have the same car. I also don't understand posts that relate to discussions of why the RL isn't like another car. I assume we all choose a car for a variety of different and personal reasons and to each their own, but why buy a car if you don't like the way it carries out the basic function of what it was purchased to serve ?? It's like saying I like McDonalds and buy the Big Mac but don't like the way it tastes and wish it was like the Whopper. Buy the Whopper!! Somebody help me out here.

gavine

I'd like to see the torque converter stay locked in manual mode when accelerating. If find that it unlocks too easily at times. I realize they do it to avoid a full downshift but in manual mode, I'd like to downshift when I want and stay in-gear with TC locked in all gears except 1st gear.

One other gripe I have about the trans is that it downshifts to 1st when coming to a stop at about 5mph. I don't know why that bothers me, but it does. I think most, if not all, Hondas do that. I've never felt another car downshift to 1st gear while still moving.

kirbyflorida

My 06 mRL does not go into first until I am almost at a complete stop, would not know it if I had not watched the gears, I cannot feel it.

fstshrk

I noticed that too. Sometimes it lurches into gear.

fstshrk

Hi

This is an improvement suggestion IMHO to make the car better.

If you love the car the way it is, perfect.

I would like Acura to match the world-class power plant to a world class transmission.

fstshrk

Of course it does, you just have to get on the throttle a lot harder to get it to downshift. It downshifts fine from 5->4. It is the 4->3 or the 4->2 downshift that it almost always takes a firm jab on the throttle pedal.

For example, you are in the lane over from the carpool lane and you are coasting at 30 and the car is in 4th gear, and you want to pull into the carpool lane. The cars in the carpool lane are moving along at 65 mph.

Your options are (1) hammer the throttle to get a 4->2 downshift and then pull into the carpool lane (if you can avoid hitting the car in front of you), (2) move into the carpool lane with the car slogging around in 4th gear then hammer the throttle, (3) put the car in manual mode, downshift to 2, then move to the carpool lane and accelerate.

Try this next time and let me know. I have tried (1) and (2) above, but I have resigned myself to doing (3).

getakey

When braking, I find that the AT downshifts much more agressively than any other car I have driven.

kirbyflorida

I do not find that at 18000 miles, how many miles and have you had the tranny fluid changed?
I believe the manual says 100k for tranny fluid change but this is a joke, Honda trannies always like new fluid in the past, I will change mine at 30k.

black label

Porsche Tiptronic S transmission does. If you are driving aggressively, it will hold the RPM's even when you let off the gas. It will also "automatically" downshift when you are braking to provide supplemental engine braking.

As an example, if you punch the gas to get on the highway and bring it up to 70mph, then take you foot off the gas quickly, it will hold 3rd gear at about 3800rpm.

Mike_TX

Hmmm ... how long will the Tiptronic hold the revs after you get off the gas? And doesn't that just mean it's staying in the lower gear (that you used to accelerate onto the highway)? I would hope it doesn't stay there long, as that would be a PITA.

My Lexus IS350 hung in gear for several long seconds after goosing it, and it was the subject of a great deal of biotching from owners. It was referred to as "hanging in gear", "not upshifting", "transmission flaring", etc. Dealers tried to explain it away by saying it was a performance thing, where the transmission was staying in the lower gear "in case you weren't through accelerating". Right. They ended up buying a lot of them back.

As far as the TC lockup, that's something else. The OP was talking about when you are running along and lift off the gas (coast), he wants the trans to stay in lockup. Almost all automatic transmissions go out of lockup for 2 reasons - fuel economy and EPA emissions regs. By unloading the engine (releasing the TC) during coasting, there's a lot less emissions and a little less fuel burned.

The best way to avoid torque converter lockup when coasting is to get a manual trans.

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DoctorTuna

Yes, we buy certain cars for certain attributes. People didn't buy a Lexus for it to 'perform' like a Porsche. We 'expect' certain things from certain vehicles. I think your post sums up to a certain degree what I have said previously, buy the car for the attributes you want. Complaining about the car you have wishing or wanting it to perform like something its not meant to be seems like an exercise in futility.

fstshrk

Mike

Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin, and Mercedes all use variants of the same ZF transmission.

Almost ALL of these systems are hooked up the stability control sensors of the car and are able to sense when you are hustling through a mountain pass or when you are braking in bumper to bumper traffic and adjust accordingly.

The shift algorithms are not dependent simply on throttle position and RPMs. That pretty much ended in late 1990s.

The earlier European cars would in fact leave the torque converter locked up to give engine braking assist until the RPMs dropped below 2K or so. At least all automatic MBs that I drove (ca 1995 or earlier) did this. MB switched to the electronic shift control in the late 1990s when they went to the 5 speed tranny and advanced it with touch shift.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

I dont want to hear any RL owners complaining about your trannys; at least yours work.

gavine

Doesn't Honda's Programmed Fuel Injection cut-off the fuel when coasting? If that's the case, I would think leaving the TC engaged during coasting would be a good thing for emissions and fuel economy. I do notice the the RL has more "engine braking" than most other cars that I've driven. Most cars feel like they're in neutral when coasting but not the RL and I presume that's for the fuel-cut-off feature.

You'll notice while coasting that, once the RPMs get down to about 1300, the car then feels like it's coasting. Presumably, this is the fuel going back on so the engine doesn't stall.

db22

I think that you are missing the point - we all know that the RL is a good car, my gripe is that a little bit more finesse in the software department could easily eliminate the niggles and make it a Great car. The RL is progressive in technology, it should be leading the pack not following it.

black label

It's really all dependant on how you are driving it. It holds revs instead of shifting because I typically get into the gas aggressively and have to let off it quickly because, well it's a Porsche and when you hit the gas, you go fast quick.

What it's actually anticipating in this situation is a corner coming up or a potential overtaking move. After a few seconds of smooth throttle position, it will shift to another gear to lower the RPM. If you push into the gas a little bit while you are still holding the lower gear, it wiull prolong the holding of the gear because it is assuming the you are pulling some sort of overtaking manuever and that you don't want to slip out of the powerband.

If you let off the gas quickly and then dive into a corner, the lateral G sensors relay their data to the transmission and tell it to hold the gear because it knows you want to be in the powerband to accelerate out of the corner (it does essentially the same thing if you go gas to brake quickly).

If you are driving the car in a more mild mannered style, the car recognises that as well and shifts in a more refined way but all it takes is about 30 seconds of aggressive throttle input and the car switches into go mode.

I'm a card carring member of the "manual transmission is better club" but I would be entirely satisfied with the performance that a tiptronic delivers. I can't wait to see what the upcoming PDK is like

Ibn Rushd

But if i take a curve like he does, if you give it a bit more gas through the turn, it will shift to fourth (3rd for the EL)....i thought he's saying the RL does NOT do that. The TL and EL will do it with enough gas, that it happens smoothly. He's saying it doesn't happen at all in the RL. That's what I meant. Sorry.

Mike_TX

LOL. We're probably all talking about the same kind of thing - just expressing it differently.

I think we all agree virtually all cars with AT's will kick down a gear if you put your foot in the go-pedal, whether you're going straight or in a curve. I think the OP is talking about the trans anticipating your moves and kicking down a gear or two without you having to tell it to with your toe ... kinda like it's saying, "Okay, he's coming into a fast sweeper, so let's go down a gear so he can have some extra grunt if he needs it".

That's desirable for high-energy driving, and available in true high-performance cars. But for the average family sedan, the industry has tried to address it by offering Sport mode (manumatic, Tiptronic, whatever). You just flick the shifter over to the side and use it or the paddles to dial in whatever gear you want to be in.

I seriously doubt Acura will put that capability in its mainstream cars anytime soon.

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DoctorTuna

No, I don't think I'm missing the point. I think the RL is designed to be purposeful for the type of vehicle it was designed to be. The posts I have read suggest they want the car to be something that it is not. If the car didn't have a manumatic mode I could certainly understand the nuances of the transmission. I specifically bought the RL because I didn't want a transmission like a Tiptronic Porsche. When I drive with enthusiasm I put it in manual mode, use the paddle shifters, and I can make the vehicle do wonderful things. When I have my parents in the car and I am leisurely driving through town, I want the vehicle to be smooth, precise and preserve fuel mileage. The car does what it is intended to do. Bottom line, not everyone is going to love everything about the car, that's alright. I think the current setup is a very good representation of what I expected to buy, that means they did a good job.

black label

Honda used to have a sport button on the automatic Accords of the early 90's. From my experience with them, they just forced the car to hold a gear for about 1000 RPM longer before shifting.

As far as automatics go, I think having the sport shift option with paddles on the steering wheel is the best way to go if you can use the paddles without having to flip the gear selector in the left hand gate (like the RDX). If this was the standard, you would be able to leave it automatic, but be able to make a quick downshift for cornering without letting go of the wheel.

kirbyflorida

I agree completely, you are dead on. The new paddles will be even much better , especially for a luxury car.

db22

I agree with you and it is what I expected to buy but if SP2 fixed XP then imagine what the RL would be like with the new code.

DoctorTuna

If they can make it better than what it is or improve upon a good thing that doesn't change the underlying characteristic of the vehicle I intended to purchase then bring it on!!

fstshrk

So the 500 ms shift time in the paddle shift does not drive you crazy ?



I think you are right about RL not being a good fit for me. My local MB dealer has a CLK63 Black Series for sale. I may stop by and pick it up tomorrow.

I hope the RL will get a good trade-in value.

DoctorTuna

Now you're talking!!

TheOne305

RL drives just fine to me. When i had my 04 TL auto no navi i just learned how to drive it. It only takes me a second to put it into manual, even when cruising at 35mph and then floor it the gears change is about the same amount of time it takes me to do the same in a manual transmission about 1 second well thats like from 4th to 2nd. So if you want complete controll of your gearing just learn to drive it in manual or go buy a car with manual transmission. No matter how you slice it you still have to learn the characteristic's of the vehical.

Ibn Rushd

No. I want my to have my cake and eat it too .
That's just too much work!



Off Topic: Sweet, go for the CLK63 Black Series...i'm loving it a lot right now!