neuronbob

The recession is, frankly, not the problem. When all the big auto mags are politely saying that the looks of the new models are "polarizing", and not gushing over the looks, and there is pandemonium in the forums, there is a problem with the exterior styling.

The California studio needs to start over with the external designs IMHO. The Crosstour is the latest abomination to come out of Torrance, so it indicates that they are not listening to customers.

They need to get groups of enthusiasts and add the to the mix of focus groups. As someone who has actually owned three Acuras and a multitude of other Hondas, I thought I'd be someone whose opinion mattered. Apparently not.

The ideal model to start with is the RL, the flagship.

TampaRLX-SH

Agree. Auto journalists has not been so gracious referring to the TL as being 'hit with an ugly stick'.

Crosstour is another attempt to throw EVERY styling trend in cliche out there onto this vehicle. It simply is an automotive Wilde Beast.

And IF Acura uses enthusiasts, I hope they find some in the age group who typically can afford these products. Acura need to let off the styling dictation and learn to be more responsive to styling taste. Jumping form too conservative to overly obnoxious is not a brilliant move IMHO.

jftjr

Yeah, the RL wasn't selling well in 2005-2006, either... better than now, for sure, but it wasn't anywhere near the TL's volume when the economy was better.

TampaRLX-SH

Actually Honda projected selling 20,000 units of the RL / LEGEND worldwide for 2005 upon the launch. Acura never publicized expected sales for the car. It was never intended to be a volume vehicle (as is the TL).

In 2005 Acura alone sold over 22,000 RLs. The global numbers were posted at one point, but Honda rarely publishes global figures. I believe it was close to 35,000 units total.

The original production plan was for ONE shift on the Saitama assembly plant. After the LEGEND was named 2005 Car of the year in Japan, it went to THREE shifts to keep up with demand.

However, introduction of competitor's models brought sales down quicker than expected and by 2006 sales dropped off faster than assembly was contracted. Hence, many of us 2006 RL owners reaped the rewards of $10K reductions in sticker price and generous inventory to select from. Although low $40K is still negotiable for an RL, inventory is slim pickings.

If you ask me, that was not a bad run for Honda, and although we are witnessing a small trickle in volume now, the overall run of the car has been close to what Honda expected. It paid for itself ....that is better than MANY vehicles on the market.

Anyone who buys and RL or LEGEND with expectations of high volume market saturation bought the car for the wrong reason. Not every product is brought forth with intention to be king of the heap.

robarsan

^^^^ Tampa-pedia-RL

TampaRLX-SH

*chuckle*

I admit, this car has been much more than transportation to me. My passion for the car also brings out frustrations towards Acura, and occasionally towards Honda. Still I understand why it is what it is based on research and understanding it was not designed and built for my personal requirement. It just happens to hit home with what pleases me. Almost daily when I drive my RL, something of the car jumps onto my conscience and I find myself saying...'yeah, I GET it.'

But I find, in life, in general.....people are too willing to toss out disparaging remarks with little evidence or perspective as to why the universe does not rotate around them.

*bowing to robarsan*

robarsan

I hope you took my Tampa-pedia comment as a compliment. You have an uncanny amount of knowledge on the Acura so I thought the title was fitting.

I have my Labor day weekend Bourbon buzz on and can't tell by your reply if you took it wrong or not.

*bow returned*

TampaRLX-SH

Indeed I did! Hence the bow of grattitude.

My comment was about peoples' unsubstantiated remarks of the RL and it's success (or lack of, depending on who's perspective you take) just being human nature...if not an attractive trait of our species.

And THANK YOU! You just reminded me I brought home some Russian cognac and this is a perfect time to break open a bottle! *hic*

"pogovoreem pozzhe, comrad!"

jftjr

I admit to not researching the figures, but when a car is going for 20% off sticker price less than one year after its introduction, I'd say that's not exactly a success. That was my criteria.

TampaRLX-SH

The 2nd gen RL was on sale in November of 2004.

The $10K discounts were not readily reported until May of 2006.

That roughly is 18 months, which if I am correct is longer than a year.

In fact, it nearly constitutes 2 model years as July launches the following model year. And it was common knowledge at that time the premium car market was already shrinking...even before the 08 crash.

Granted, it was a generous discount, but if you want to use that as sole criteria in an argument of a vehicle's success or lack thereof, I would also like to have financing factored in that determination.

Acura (Honda) did not offer the 2.9% financing, or 0%, or sign and drive lease deals that many of the competitors offered which compensate for bottom line discounts at purchase and also artificially inflate unit sales totals.

The RL is not a heroic sales success. But it has met Honda's expectations and done it's job as a showcase vehicle for the entire Acura lineup. Maybe it was discounted...but Honda has MADE a profit on this model even if the last few model years alone were a wash.

How many cars are emulating technology and features today that were introduced by the RL 5+ years ago? How many 'successful' brands are now mimicking SHAWD, introduced by the RL? That is what I would call 'success'.

And Acura as a brand has a lineup that entirely emulates the primary attributes of the 05RL... SHAWD on most models and telematics that nearly all copy or improve upon what the RL introduced into the market. That to me spells success.

We'd all like a little more cache for the car, but I don't think that is clearly defined by sales volume. And if it did sell volumes more, people would be bitching how commonplace it is.

Perspective can be limited to one attribute, but not everyone may share the same perspective.

vinodc

hey TampaRL,

have you ever written to acura, called them? I know sounds a little silly, but your obviously very informed regarding the RL. I really wonder if all existing RL owners wrote them, offering some sort of guidance or support for the RL would things make a difference?

It just bothers me about Acura, our family used to be a big honda/acura family...everytime we go into the dealer now....nothing even impresses enough. The interiors nice, ride is nice....then you look at the outside...and we move on.

I find it very pathetic...HYUNDAI...is releasing an 8-speed automatic for the refreshed genesis for 2011 model year. Acura can't even put a decent 6-speed out.....what gives?!!!

like i said writing a letter might seem silly...but I wrote a letter once to man named...bill clinton....guess where I interned for a summer? Harlem, president clintons office

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

In fact I have. From February of 2008, when the 2009 RL was revealed:

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/open-letter-acura-2009-rl-500691/

I sent this letter to a series of Acura senior management, several who are no longer there including Tricky Dick ("Ack-er-uh") Colliver.

I also called customer care and expressed my dismay.

I have told every Acura representative that would listen. Even one 'polling' attendees at the last Tampa Bay Auto Show. Most recently I had the ear of a few at the Acura Sportscar Challenge / St Pete Grand Prix. By then they at least acknowledged there was a significant amount of negative appreciation for the current design camp.

This open letter is as poignant to me today as it was then. Nothing has changed with my view. It only got worse after I saw the 2009 TL restyle.

I still love my RL. But it will not last forever. It will certainly last me longer than my typical 3 year turnover as nothing on the market can woo me from it. Even if the next RL debuts in 2011, I will not buy a 1st year model, so unless 2012 brings Acura styling to it's senses, I will have another marque in my garage.

jftjr

Tampa, I got my '05 RL in September of 2005 for $41K. I got my '06 in March, 06 for less... but that was because I had to trade the car in under warranty for a defect.

I've got nothing bad to say about the RL as a car -- I loved it, and would have liked nothing more than to have either bought my RL at the end of the lease (but after three years of 20% discounts, it was worth $20-21K and the LEP price was ~$28K) or to have leased another one (but leasing had died, and new RL's, after three years of 20% discounts, were leasing in the $700-800 range, not the low $600's...) but it just wasn't worth it... that, and the new ones were ugly.

So, ok, yeah -- you can define success a number of ways (and you'll get no argument from me that it was a technological success and a brilliant car, I loved my RL!) and you can argue that "it was never intended to be a high volume car," but I'm sure Acura would have liked to have sold more of them, at less of a discount.

Which they probably could have, had they not completely ignored marketing the thing.