Sniffles

I am thinking about getting this unit since I hate the delay. I know I can either floor it or just deal with it which I have been but lately I been driving my friend's Lexus and I def miss the instant acceleration. What do you guys think of this product.....think it will improve the acceleration response at all?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-Acura-RL-...xp=mtr#vi-desc

db22

It is an expensive solution for people who lack full control of their right foot. dy/dt by foot or computer - your foot is free, the computer is $255.

Sniffles

thanks for your input but i don't think you read the part where i said "I can floor it." I know my foot is free but I rather pay 255 as opposed to deal with the lag..most likely i will prob get it...just want any opinions on if it makes a significant difference or slight

TampaRLX-SH

Your car. Your money. Your choice.

Aside from the RL decidedly tuned for smooth acceleration, my only advice would be to consider the complexity of electronic algorithms modern cars are tuned with.

Would this device interfere with tranny logic? SHAWD logic? VSA logic? Emissions logic, etc. It may produce the end result you seek, but perhaps will create software conflicts with integrated systems. And should that happen, who will support the fix? And will the device manufacturer stand behind it should you open Pandora's software box?

oo7spy

IMHO, it is a waste of money. Look at all of the graphs. All of this is based on a single, constant, and pretty unrealistic "normal" throttle control.


If you want to change the throttle control, do it your self.

tlmaster1

i have know people that have this on honda accords and a friend that brought it for him BMW 335D, and i drove both, Accord and Bmw, i feel the difference between the modes. Its Faster Accelartion

Sniffles

Cool...thanks! Thats exactly what I needed to know

oo7spy

Fixed.




EDIT: Going back and reading your second post, this device will not have any affect on lag from what I can tell. It is an interface between the DBW and ECU systems that changes the pedal response isn't it? If you floor it, does the lag go away? If the the answer is, "no", then this won't help that at all. It just changes the sensitivity of the pedal.

Matt W

Sniffles I think I know what you mean but I am not sure if the correct term is "lag." This sounds like something I am looking for, I love my RL but when I hop into my parents lexus IS or my grandparents toyota avalon the pedal feels so nice, in a way that it makes the engine do more than it would do if I was pressing it the same way in my RL.

Sniffles

^ yup! My friend and I always mess around and gun it for fun and when it was stock, I will always lose the initial start. The delay doesn't help...but since I did the pulley, jpipe, exhaust, CAI, TBS...I can hang with him...but the delay still is there and all I want is acceleration when I step on the pedal. Hoping this product can help the dilemma

Matt W

If you do this let me know if it helps, this is something I would be interested in doing in 1 or 2 months

Sniffles

I will def let you all know. I am trying to decide what I should spend my $$ on...speeding tickets, brakes/pads, or this haha

oo7spy

Hookers?

Matt W

BTW depending on how much my 110k maint. costs next month I am pulling the trigger on one of these. I understand what this does, basically adjusts the sensitivity of the pedal, which is exactaly what I am looking for.

wackjum

Just put the transmission in D3 for around town responsiveness. You'll burn a ton of gas on the freeway though so remember to pop it back into D.

The "lag" you feel is partly by design. The RL's computer retards spark ignition when you floor it for ride comfort.

But some of the lag is also because the RL aggressively shifts to the taller gears in a bid to be more fuel efficient. The RL engine is peaky so the transmission has to downshift and let the engine spool up before you get some power.

Matt W

I understand that, but there are times though where that split second makes a difference for me when i'm in rush hour traffic and there are other times where I don't need that at all and don't want the accelerator to be really touchy. Which is where this would come in handy with multiple "modes" plus its pretty cheap $220 on ebay, and worst case scenario I would have to pay $5 dollar return shipping if its not what I expected.

wackjum

Wrong. Worst case scenario is it fries your car's electronics or it malfunctions and you get some good ole' unintended acceleration.


Trust me, almost every car with an AT lags a bit. Learn to use the manual mode and paddle shifters to pre-emptively downshift before you need to make some kind of maneuver.

I now drive a Nissan 370Z. If I was to floor that car from a standstill, it will burn its tires from 1st through 3rd gear. But it STILL lags if you're cruising along and mash the gas because it is probably in 7th gear and needs to get down to 4th to get any power.

Unless the little ebay box of yours turns the RL transmission into a dual clutch automated manual, you will always have some kind of lag or horrible mileage as the car holds lower gears.

Benush

When you race a vehicle the response of the throttle (pedal) is NOT the same as the response of the transmission or engine. This device changes how the throttle pedal reacts to your inputs, NOT in how the amount of fuel is sent to the injectors (which is what you feel as lag)

In the existing drive by wire system think of the pedal as foot off, zero and pedal hitting the carpet as 100. Since you seldom drive at either extreme, the amount of pedal pressure is considered stages of acceleration. Factor in the amount of time that it takes for the pedal to go from zero to WOT or where ever you stop pushing and the computer decides how much fuel to send. If you are cruising at 25% pedal and cram it to the floor it senses it needs lots more fuel as fast as it can versus 25% to 40% to casually pass someone on the highway.

This box changes the sensitivity of the pedal signal so that the computer knows to a better degree where on the scale of 0 to 100 you are pressing, but it can't do much to override how much fuel is sent for throttle response and therefore not much as far as reducing lag time. the injectors will get the specified amount of fuel at pretty much the same time using either existing computer formulas or this box. Where this changes is in the time of deceleration by lifting your foot. The box will sense less of a signal and respond quicker. Hence the ECO modes. Quicker OFF the throttle to use less fuel. Or a smoother transition as touted for the Tundra.

To try and explain it further, you can't force fuel through the lines and injectors any faster than the fastest that a computer (and the physical restraints of the tubes and orifices ) will let you. This box can't change those formulas enough to significantly change the increased fuel flow and hence can't give you more fuel faster. What it CAN do is figure out that when you press the pedal farther faster it means that you want full fuel capacity now so it changes the position of the sensors so that what was 75% throttle (I'm just picking a number but the charts look at about that point) on the old stock system, it's now 100%. Your foot goes less distance to get the same reaction. IN ECO modes it changes it back to a less drastic change as you decelerate.

I was a member of SEMA for years and many companies have tried to make chips that magically change the dynamics of a vehicle (much has been done for diesel pick ups), however unless you change the volume that the fuel pump can pump, the amount that the injectors can inject and how quickly the transmission can change, you are stuck with much of the reactions designed by the Acura engineers.

Since this box does not verify that it changes flow rates, gallons per minute of fuel and shift points, I'm guessing that it's not going to get you what you want.

HOWEVER, I have no problems with being proven wrong (old age mellows the ego!). A decent test would be to do a baseline using a G-meter (iPhone has a free app so you don't need to spend a couple hundred on a dedicated system) and then install the box and do the exact same tests within a few minutes.

Anyway, my

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

because not race car/

Bjafari93

Back when I had a Benz everyone was getting these and said they worked great - http://www.sprintboosterusa.com/ I just checked the site and they don't have them for the RL?? From everything I have read/heard, most luxury cars are supposed to have the hesitation but this will completely eliminate that. There is also a "ghetto" way to do this with a soda bottle cap but I will let you google that.

Matt W

Nearly the same thing, justs adjusts the sensitivity of pedal. Anyways I'm still going to get one, I know what It does and don't think I am going to run into any problems.

Sniffles

lol at the soda cap idea....anyways...i test drove the new 5 series and it had the same issue...but my 95 lexus didn't along with my friends 2006 lexus 450h...it may not be instant but the lag is nonexistent whereas the RL, you def feel it...

@ matt- i wonder who will get it first lol

oo7spy

Thank you for using logic to debunk bogus products. I will concede if proven wrong, but my motto with stuff like this is, "A fool and their money are soon parted."

Also, don't give us bogus data to prove us wrong such as butt-dynos. Legitimate 0-60s or g-forces will be considered.

Matt W

I think me and Sniffles both understand fully what this does. I don't expect it to increase my 0-60 time at all except for maybe the 1/10 second it would have taken me to move my pedal to the same position without the controller.

I highly doubt this is going to fry anything...thats like saying dont get a USA Spec or NavTool adapter because worst case it could fry your headunit

Sniffles

Agreed. I just want the car to move when I step on the pedal instead of milking the pedal slowly so it can respond like other cars. My friends that drove my car aren't used to it and they say its pretty annoying to drive if they owned it.

If it turns out that USA Spec and Navtool do fry the headunit...we're all in deep shit

TampaRLX-SH

Again. Your Car. Your Money. Your Choice.

But I would hardly equate (or dismiss) a fried head unit with potentialy creating integration conflicts with the tranny logic, SHAWD logic, VSA logic, etc., etc. Throttle logic and sensors are integrated to those systems. You will be introducing new parameters. You know for a fact they are capable of consuming new parameters? A fried head unit has little potential to cause the vehicle to lose control or surpise the operator with unexpected behavior.

If this vendor says it is compatible with your Acura RL model, then ask them for testing documention and proof of that compatibility with the RL. If they cannot supply such, what makes you believe it is compatible? Because it says so on eBay? I bet they never even bolted one onto an RL. You are EAGER to believe it is? I was once eager to believe Santa Claus would arrive on Christmas Eve, but we all know how that ended.

Again. Your Car, Your Money, Your Choice. I admire your desire to offer up your RL as a Beta Test platform. You are generous with your investment to prove this vendor's product. I am sure they will bail you out should something go wrong. I do KNOW Acura will not (and should not).

Me, I won't even let my brother drive my RL.

Sniffles

Honestly, I think me and matt both get it its our money. I appreciate your opinion but it seems the whole message I really got is I am wasting my $220 and prob destroying my car. Here's my ...I am still going to do it

Also..its not hard fact but at least someone has done it on a Lexus and they got good results. I will obviously do more research so nobody has to jump and start disproving this link.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/hybr...or-gs450h.html

check #3, 5, 8 also, Apexi is a great company...being listed on eBay shouldn't devalue this product. They have the product on their main page too but I like free shipping and no tax so eBay is the way to go

TampaRLX-SH

In your OP you stated "What do you guys think of this product..."

You did not state "Please only reply with responses I want to hear and affirm what I am going to do anyway".

If you think it is good enough for a Lexus equates to it will be just fine with an RL, I have nothing more to offer.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Haha, you guys are debating with an 18 & 24 year old that want to go fast yo and be the coolest at the parking lot meet... LoL I wasn't listening back then either. :

You might as well hang it up Tampa and sit back to enjoy the talk. Have some

oo7spy

I could care less about the compatibly documentation for the RL. What worries me is the reliability documentation for an automotive product. The DPPM of an automotive product is supposed to be near zero and that involves A LOT of testing to prove out over the life of a product. You are putting an electrical unit between your pedal and your throttle. If that unit fails, your pedal is worthless. Your only saving grace is shifting the car to neutral, hitting your e-brake, and letting the gas cut off system keep your engine out of red line.

Quality and reliability should not be dismissed when automotive mechanical functionality is involved. Shit, look at Toyota and their throttle controller issues. I can guarantee you Toyota spends orders of magnitude more $$$ on reliability testing than Apexi.

Sniffles

You already told me what you thought. But reiterate the same phrase "do at our own risk"...I can read and I can go back and read it over and over again. I don't need 3 paragraphs of negativity about a product that nobody has tried yet while other people has.

Again, back to the age issue. I can say only old people own RLs...age has nothing to do with it.

Also, I am sure Toyota put a lot of work into their design and far more than Apexi. So why do we take our OEM air box and replace it with the AEM V2? Why do we take our exhaust system and replace it with our own custom made or the 5zigen?

Nobody tried the accelerator and even done enough research to have any legitimate reason to making it seem like its the worst idea ever.

Benush

Before writing any thing more, I have seen Apexi's booth at SEMA and they make great products. Their body kits show imagination and style (even to old farts like me!). I'm not saying this box is bogus, but they may be embellishing it's perceived capabilities in the wording of their ads. They have been around for nearly 20 years (I think) and did start as a small Japanese performance shop but were better at "replacing" stock components and pieces rather than modifying stock electronics with simple plug ins. If you were looking to put this in a vehicle whose basic driveability was geared to performance rather than luxury, I "think" you would get results more in line with what you want. But then again if you were driving a vehicle more geared to seat of the pants performance you might not be considering this box.

With that said, I didn't say NOT to get the plug in, but to test to see what performance gains you can verify.

However, before you get that little black box would you try one thing first. Re-configure the throttle response via the Acura's computer. If you haven't done so, you can work magic by turning the ignition off and on a few times (the actual steps are somewhere on this site) and then drive it for a few days by romping on the pedal every chance you can "legally" get. You might be surprised by how much the acceleration profile changes to match your driving style. Unless you use a G-meter (or something that simulates the same readings) it will be seat of the pants, but it might give you an idea of what CAN be changed without changing the ECU circuitry by outside sources.

But, for the verifiable readings....
I presume you either have or friends have a smartphone. I have an app for my iPhone called g-tac but would guess that they have ported the program to android phones. It works remarkably well! I have hundreds of dollars worth of telemetric electronics that are now basically relegated to a shelf because this works so well.

Find a place to secure the phone and run the program and then reset the throttle response curve and play "mash the pedal" for a couple days and then take the RL out to the same spot and run g-tac again to see if there is any change.

Then plug in the Apexi box and run the g-tac program again to see what changes occurred. If the instructions tell you to wait for a few days to see your "best" results, then I would guess that their box does a rest before it starts learning your driving habits, too.

If those results are what you wanted or a willing to accept, you spent YOUR money in a way that made you happy (always a good thing) but if the gain is not significant enough for you, ask the vendor for a refund (or see what you can sell it for).

I have spent more money than I care to think about on thing-a-ma-jigs, what-cha-ma-callits and do-hickeys for cars and race cars to go faster, handle better and just plain change how the vehicle works and so am in no place to say it's foolish for you to buy the Apexi box. Just go in to it with your eyes a little wider open. Then when or if that little black box DOES provide better acceleration you can tell us to go pound sand!

oo7spy

Comparing aftermarket exhausts and intakes to accelerator controllers is like apples to oranges. Passive components that only stop a car when they fail are not like active components that could accelerate a car when they fail.

Still, since you are going to buy it anyway, please do a thourough comparison and installation write up if necessary for teh community.

Rob144

I've had the same thought as the OP (about getting "crisper" off-the-line throttle response). My '95 Legend was also somewhat leisurely, so it seems to be part of the breed.

Every time I think about the crisper response, though, I remember driving several Nissans and finding them incredibly (and annoyingly) jumpy.

With each passing year, it seems like cars get more and more powerful -- there was a 50% increase between my '95 Legend and my '06 RL. Perhaps that contributes to making our cars seem slower (if not lazy, or "sedate").

Even with an add-on, I have to wonder just how "crisp" the RL's throttle response and acceleration can be made to be because there's so much going on under the car with the AWD system, and the car's somewhat hefty weight.

I'd try everything I could *before* spending the $$ on an add-on. The "reset" and "drive hard" for a while could make a difference.

Back in my Miata days I did advance the timing and it made the car a bit more responsive -- but darn if I didn't have to spend $50 bucks to reset it for the smog check, and another $50 to advance it again afterwards. It became suboptimal and I learned to enjoy and appreciate "stock" as the maker intended. And save some money.

Good luck on whatever direction you go.