2G RL vs 4G TL
03-18-2010, 10:58 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
2G RL vs 4G TL
my MDX went in for some minor servicing, but they had to order parts...so I wound up with a 2009 TL as a loaner. They likely won't have my car done until earlynext week while they wait for parts..so lucky me..I get a new 09 TL for the weekend...I drove it around a bit today and had a lot of fun.
I'm already making comparisons to my RL. I'll update this thread as I drive it more.. my initial impressions are:
TL rides much firmer, has much better turn in / flatter feeling cornering...BUT I can tell if I push it in turns, b/c I have a base lacking SH-AWD the car plows and the front end wiggles...it feels less stable than the RL. I want to say the TL "feels" like it handles better...but I think the RL might actually handle better. This TL I have has 17" wheels/tires with turanza tires. same size wheels/tires as my RL, but I have hte MXMs on my car..so similar wheel/tirs setup. I think the TL might transition left/right quicker better..but in a long sustained turn the SH-AWD in the RL gives it a far more stable feel.
the TL feels sportier but of a lesser quality. it's nice, but not as nice. it feels lighter too.
the doors close with less authority.
the TL is noisier. rougher.
I notice stuff like the steering wheel doesn't go up automatically like my RL. maybe the tech version have this or do no TLs do that?
Ovrall - my initial impressioni s that the new TL is a very nice car..and if I was in the new car market, or looking to lease - I think I'd give an SH-AWD a LOOONG hard look...but the base vs my RL - I like my RL better. I like the sportiness of the TL...and I like the power..on a freeway onramp I hammered it and noticed that the auto shifts are *much* quicker than the are on the RL... it woudl easily outrun my RL...
similar cars..but also still many distinct differences
I'm already making comparisons to my RL. I'll update this thread as I drive it more.. my initial impressions are:
TL rides much firmer, has much better turn in / flatter feeling cornering...BUT I can tell if I push it in turns, b/c I have a base lacking SH-AWD the car plows and the front end wiggles...it feels less stable than the RL. I want to say the TL "feels" like it handles better...but I think the RL might actually handle better. This TL I have has 17" wheels/tires with turanza tires. same size wheels/tires as my RL, but I have hte MXMs on my car..so similar wheel/tirs setup. I think the TL might transition left/right quicker better..but in a long sustained turn the SH-AWD in the RL gives it a far more stable feel.
the TL feels sportier but of a lesser quality. it's nice, but not as nice. it feels lighter too.
the doors close with less authority.
the TL is noisier. rougher.
I notice stuff like the steering wheel doesn't go up automatically like my RL. maybe the tech version have this or do no TLs do that?
Ovrall - my initial impressioni s that the new TL is a very nice car..and if I was in the new car market, or looking to lease - I think I'd give an SH-AWD a LOOONG hard look...but the base vs my RL - I like my RL better. I like the sportiness of the TL...and I like the power..on a freeway onramp I hammered it and noticed that the auto shifts are *much* quicker than the are on the RL... it woudl easily outrun my RL...
similar cars..but also still many distinct differences
03-21-2010, 07:14 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
I agree with this opinion, having spent a couple of days in a base FWD TL about a year ago.
03-22-2010, 09:07 AM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
i had the TL all weekend, and did a normal amount of driviing. Overall I like the car. It feels sportier, but less luxurious - that would about sum it up.
the turn in feels more crisp and if you throw it hard into a turn - assuming you don't turn SO hard that you start to cause the tires to lose traction - it feels like the car will holdmore "g's" throgh a turn....BUT if you push it just a little bit harder. to unsettle the chassis/tires - then you feel ith e front end push and the rear gets unsettled... and that's not pushign the car like I was on a track..just minorly aggressive driving on the streets... at 6/10ths it feels very sporty. push it to 8/10ths and you feel it get unsettled.
at 6/10ths my RL feels softer and less sporty. at 8/10ths my RL still hugs the road and takes turns with authorityh - tracking right through the turn - b/c of the SH-AWD....
A new TL WITH the SH-AWD system would be a pretty fun car - that's my guess.
this base model lacks a button to pop the trunk AT the trunk. you have to use the key or go back to the front and hit the button on teh dash/door - that's a PITA. i'm used to going back there and even iff the car is "locked" you can still open the trunk.
For those of you - especially you Bob - as you have driven one of these TLs - how do you think the ride is on a TL like the one I just drove - would compare to an 05-08 RL that HAS teh OEM aspec suspension installed???
i did kind of like the ride of the TL - it was firmer and the car had a lot less body roll in the turns... i'm wondering how similar my car woudl ride if I added aspec? or woudl they still feel totally different????
the TL felt a lot lighter on it's feet as I drove it - even though it's not..that TL and my RL are not much different in gross weight..i'ts maybe a few hundred pounds lighter.but it felt like it was MUCH lighter... and the wheels/tires on the loaner I had were 17" 245-50-17 same wheel i have on the RL.. only diff is mine are MXMs and this car had Turanzas..that were obvioulsy newer and fresher..my MXMS are wearing out or closer to wearing out.. overall though the two cars have similar all seasons, same sized wheels/tires..but the TL felt much sportier... steering could have played a huge role, as would hte throttle tip in, and ow the rest of the car is programed..but in terms of body roll, the TL hada lot less and felt more firm on turns... woudl aspec fix that immensely on an RL?
the turn in feels more crisp and if you throw it hard into a turn - assuming you don't turn SO hard that you start to cause the tires to lose traction - it feels like the car will holdmore "g's" throgh a turn....BUT if you push it just a little bit harder. to unsettle the chassis/tires - then you feel ith e front end push and the rear gets unsettled... and that's not pushign the car like I was on a track..just minorly aggressive driving on the streets... at 6/10ths it feels very sporty. push it to 8/10ths and you feel it get unsettled.
at 6/10ths my RL feels softer and less sporty. at 8/10ths my RL still hugs the road and takes turns with authorityh - tracking right through the turn - b/c of the SH-AWD....
A new TL WITH the SH-AWD system would be a pretty fun car - that's my guess.
this base model lacks a button to pop the trunk AT the trunk. you have to use the key or go back to the front and hit the button on teh dash/door - that's a PITA. i'm used to going back there and even iff the car is "locked" you can still open the trunk.
For those of you - especially you Bob - as you have driven one of these TLs - how do you think the ride is on a TL like the one I just drove - would compare to an 05-08 RL that HAS teh OEM aspec suspension installed???
i did kind of like the ride of the TL - it was firmer and the car had a lot less body roll in the turns... i'm wondering how similar my car woudl ride if I added aspec? or woudl they still feel totally different????
the TL felt a lot lighter on it's feet as I drove it - even though it's not..that TL and my RL are not much different in gross weight..i'ts maybe a few hundred pounds lighter.but it felt like it was MUCH lighter... and the wheels/tires on the loaner I had were 17" 245-50-17 same wheel i have on the RL.. only diff is mine are MXMs and this car had Turanzas..that were obvioulsy newer and fresher..my MXMS are wearing out or closer to wearing out.. overall though the two cars have similar all seasons, same sized wheels/tires..but the TL felt much sportier... steering could have played a huge role, as would hte throttle tip in, and ow the rest of the car is programed..but in terms of body roll, the TL hada lot less and felt more firm on turns... woudl aspec fix that immensely on an RL?
03-23-2010, 02:37 AM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
still have the TL. took it out for a drive tonight with the wife and kids....and when I got back I took the RL for a quick spin. Just to see what I thought of the two by driving them literally - back to back.
TL steering is lighter. the steering wheel turns with much less effort. I still think the TL "feels" a lot lighter than it is. NOt sure if this is tire pressure, or suspension, or power steering assist? whatever it is, the TL steering feels much lighter.
the RL feels heavier and the steering is heavier. I also think teh steering is a slower ratio....you need to turn the wheel more to get more movement at lower speeds. as a result, the RL feels a bit more sluggish in turns, but at the same time - it feels more planted and stable on the freeway b/c every little turn of the wheel doesn't cuase bigger changes in the cars direction.
While driving the TL I found myself thinking that I rreally liked it, and wouldn't mind having it as my main DD car. Albeit, I'd want one with SH-AWD.
After getting into my RL - I felt that the RL StILL feels like much "more" car - a more luxurious car and the one I would rather have. Albeit, I'd kind of enjoyh a bi tmore sportiness out of the RL...I think the RL is the overalll better car.
I am getting more fond othe snout on the TL and have come to like the rear of the TL more as well. parked side by side, the TL makes the RL look tiny....as the front is so massive on the TL..even though the cars are the same approximate size..the tL looks more massive - b/c the front end doesn't taper as much as the RL does...so while the RL is "pointy" up front, the TL is a big blocky chunk....
Would I want to trade in my RL and Boxster to buy a new TL SH-AWD....I don't think so. If the porsche suddenly broke down or I had to sell it and I found myself going back to one car that had to "do it all" - I might test drive one and see what I think.... but I'm not so in love with the TL that I"m ready to trade in my RL for one.
for driving to/from work...and wanting someething very nice and comfy, quiet, and pleasant to drive - the RL is far superior. it is quieter, more comfy (seats are WAY better in the RL), and better quality. BUT...if ou value sportiness...I have to give the edge to the TL. while the FWD TL lacks the AWD of the RL - you CAN get a TL with AWD.... which would be a real cool ride!
what I woudl like to compare woudl be - a TL SH-AWD vs an RL that has aspec suspension and better wheels/tires...
if you took a 2G RL - and put on 18s or 19s with PS2s...and added aspec suspension, then drove it..and compared that to a TL SH-AWD.... how would they be similar/different...the RL will always be a better made car in terms of lxuury and features..but can you make it as sporty feelign by just changing wheels/tires/suspension - or is there too much else that is different to really undo the "softer" side of the RL..
thinkgs like throttle tiip in, shift points...
for example..when I took off in the TL - you hit the gas and BAM..it just wants to go. very little hesitation. more responsive..more like how my boxster is. you mash the throttle on teh boxster and it responds...right now. the RL...it sort of thinks about it for a minute..then it seems to kick iin gear and then it goes...like it hesitates...the transmission on the RL has this effect wher I pusht eh throttle and rather than do what I want it to do..it sort of "waits"...you can actually feel it..you give it gas..and rather than go, there is apuase...you feel it then engage..
I"ve found that b/c of the way the RL drives..it almost induces me to drive slower..and more sedately... wheres the TL makes you want to drive a bit faster.... and just chaning shocks/springs won't change the inherent "slowness" of the tranny in the RL...
i'm not bashing the RL..i likeit's luxury..it's just that it's NOT a sports car...and i wonderi f aspec or biger wheels is just trying to make an RL into somethign it's not and you may end up making it worse? although quite a few people here can't stop telling me how great aspec is on the RL...
bottom line - if you have a toy car and want luxury - RL all the way. if you can only have ONE car and you VALUE sportiness..and you want an Acura..I'd give the TL SH-AWD a long hard look...and see how you think it stacks up. i suspect it woudl be a really really great DD. and would "do it all"...it wouldn't handle like my boxster...but my boxster hasn't got back seats, and doesn't have a warranty... with what I pay for an RL *and* a boxster - *and* upkeep/insurance, TIRES (boxster) etc etc..I coudl easily have a new TL SH-AWD and likely someleft over...it makes you stop and think...
TL steering is lighter. the steering wheel turns with much less effort. I still think the TL "feels" a lot lighter than it is. NOt sure if this is tire pressure, or suspension, or power steering assist? whatever it is, the TL steering feels much lighter.
the RL feels heavier and the steering is heavier. I also think teh steering is a slower ratio....you need to turn the wheel more to get more movement at lower speeds. as a result, the RL feels a bit more sluggish in turns, but at the same time - it feels more planted and stable on the freeway b/c every little turn of the wheel doesn't cuase bigger changes in the cars direction.
While driving the TL I found myself thinking that I rreally liked it, and wouldn't mind having it as my main DD car. Albeit, I'd want one with SH-AWD.
After getting into my RL - I felt that the RL StILL feels like much "more" car - a more luxurious car and the one I would rather have. Albeit, I'd kind of enjoyh a bi tmore sportiness out of the RL...I think the RL is the overalll better car.
I am getting more fond othe snout on the TL and have come to like the rear of the TL more as well. parked side by side, the TL makes the RL look tiny....as the front is so massive on the TL..even though the cars are the same approximate size..the tL looks more massive - b/c the front end doesn't taper as much as the RL does...so while the RL is "pointy" up front, the TL is a big blocky chunk....
Would I want to trade in my RL and Boxster to buy a new TL SH-AWD....I don't think so. If the porsche suddenly broke down or I had to sell it and I found myself going back to one car that had to "do it all" - I might test drive one and see what I think.... but I'm not so in love with the TL that I"m ready to trade in my RL for one.
for driving to/from work...and wanting someething very nice and comfy, quiet, and pleasant to drive - the RL is far superior. it is quieter, more comfy (seats are WAY better in the RL), and better quality. BUT...if ou value sportiness...I have to give the edge to the TL. while the FWD TL lacks the AWD of the RL - you CAN get a TL with AWD.... which would be a real cool ride!
what I woudl like to compare woudl be - a TL SH-AWD vs an RL that has aspec suspension and better wheels/tires...
if you took a 2G RL - and put on 18s or 19s with PS2s...and added aspec suspension, then drove it..and compared that to a TL SH-AWD.... how would they be similar/different...the RL will always be a better made car in terms of lxuury and features..but can you make it as sporty feelign by just changing wheels/tires/suspension - or is there too much else that is different to really undo the "softer" side of the RL..
thinkgs like throttle tiip in, shift points...
for example..when I took off in the TL - you hit the gas and BAM..it just wants to go. very little hesitation. more responsive..more like how my boxster is. you mash the throttle on teh boxster and it responds...right now. the RL...it sort of thinks about it for a minute..then it seems to kick iin gear and then it goes...like it hesitates...the transmission on the RL has this effect wher I pusht eh throttle and rather than do what I want it to do..it sort of "waits"...you can actually feel it..you give it gas..and rather than go, there is apuase...you feel it then engage..
I"ve found that b/c of the way the RL drives..it almost induces me to drive slower..and more sedately... wheres the TL makes you want to drive a bit faster.... and just chaning shocks/springs won't change the inherent "slowness" of the tranny in the RL...
i'm not bashing the RL..i likeit's luxury..it's just that it's NOT a sports car...and i wonderi f aspec or biger wheels is just trying to make an RL into somethign it's not and you may end up making it worse? although quite a few people here can't stop telling me how great aspec is on the RL...
bottom line - if you have a toy car and want luxury - RL all the way. if you can only have ONE car and you VALUE sportiness..and you want an Acura..I'd give the TL SH-AWD a long hard look...and see how you think it stacks up. i suspect it woudl be a really really great DD. and would "do it all"...it wouldn't handle like my boxster...but my boxster hasn't got back seats, and doesn't have a warranty... with what I pay for an RL *and* a boxster - *and* upkeep/insurance, TIRES (boxster) etc etc..I coudl easily have a new TL SH-AWD and likely someleft over...it makes you stop and think...
03-23-2010, 10:30 AM
#6
Senior Moderator
I'll post up a little later with some differentiation between TL FWD and the RL with A-Spec, which is what I had. Back to work!
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03-23-2010, 05:25 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
i actually sort of like the new TL...when it first came out I absolutely hated it..but it has grown on me.. I'm still not wowed by it...but I like it from some angles... with the right wheels, in the right color - it looks ok. I thik the RL still looks more elegant and upscale, but the new TL is not as "fugly" to me as it used to be...
what I do really like about the new TL is the interior, and the way it drives. the FWD one I had, handled quite well for a FWD car...and it was clearly more powerful and responsive than the RL.... it made me wonder how good a TL SH-AWD would be... my guess is they would be more similar..but still *different*.
the RL being more oriented toward luxury and the TL more toward sport...but the TL, having grown in size, nd the RL being the same car from 05 in terms of size - you really can't argue that the RL is "bigger" or more practical. if anythign, the new TL might actually hvae more interior room in the rear..when i Look back at my kids in teh rear of the TL, I swear they have more legroom than they do in teh RL.... it's very close, but the new TL is obviously larger than the old one..and the argument than wtih the RL you get more space is no longer valid. a new TL is just as practical as the RL... the RL's only real edge is in fit/finish/luxury... but the new TL is more modern looking...so for many people...a new TL would be preferable.
if you look at cost though...I got my 06 RL, CPO for about 26k. to get a new SH-AWD TL - you'll be looking at $40-45k.... and I dont think the TL is *that* much better..
If it was even money, the new TL would be really tempting...but when you figure i can put a $600 aspec suspensino kit on, spend a few grand up grading to 18" wheels and sporty tires - the RL might in fact be teh wolf in sheeps clothing..and retain the luxury, but gain handlig that would truly rival a new TL...the only palce the TL woudl probbly still win out woudl be on teh "sporty" feel...more aggressive shifting, thortlte tip in, etc such that it would likely still FEEL sportier..but the RL would probably be darn close...
Bob - what do you think? have you driven the new TLs..eithe FWD or AWD and how do you think your aspec RL stacked up in terms of comfort, handling, cornering, etc etc etc..
thanks!!!
what I do really like about the new TL is the interior, and the way it drives. the FWD one I had, handled quite well for a FWD car...and it was clearly more powerful and responsive than the RL.... it made me wonder how good a TL SH-AWD would be... my guess is they would be more similar..but still *different*.
the RL being more oriented toward luxury and the TL more toward sport...but the TL, having grown in size, nd the RL being the same car from 05 in terms of size - you really can't argue that the RL is "bigger" or more practical. if anythign, the new TL might actually hvae more interior room in the rear..when i Look back at my kids in teh rear of the TL, I swear they have more legroom than they do in teh RL.... it's very close, but the new TL is obviously larger than the old one..and the argument than wtih the RL you get more space is no longer valid. a new TL is just as practical as the RL... the RL's only real edge is in fit/finish/luxury... but the new TL is more modern looking...so for many people...a new TL would be preferable.
if you look at cost though...I got my 06 RL, CPO for about 26k. to get a new SH-AWD TL - you'll be looking at $40-45k.... and I dont think the TL is *that* much better..
If it was even money, the new TL would be really tempting...but when you figure i can put a $600 aspec suspensino kit on, spend a few grand up grading to 18" wheels and sporty tires - the RL might in fact be teh wolf in sheeps clothing..and retain the luxury, but gain handlig that would truly rival a new TL...the only palce the TL woudl probbly still win out woudl be on teh "sporty" feel...more aggressive shifting, thortlte tip in, etc such that it would likely still FEEL sportier..but the RL would probably be darn close...
Bob - what do you think? have you driven the new TLs..eithe FWD or AWD and how do you think your aspec RL stacked up in terms of comfort, handling, cornering, etc etc etc..
thanks!!!
03-23-2010, 05:44 PM
#9
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
thinkgs like throttle tiip in, shift points...
I"ve found that b/c of the way the RL drives..it almost induces me to drive slower..and more sedately... wheres the TL makes you want to drive a bit faster.... and just chaning shocks/springs won't change the inherent "slowness" of the tranny in the RL...
I"ve found that b/c of the way the RL drives..it almost induces me to drive slower..and more sedately... wheres the TL makes you want to drive a bit faster.... and just chaning shocks/springs won't change the inherent "slowness" of the tranny in the RL...
In particular the throttle tip in and tranny tuning. Obviously tuned for different purposes and different pleasures. It always puzzles me when people post that agressive tip in and shift points are better. I beg to differ. The TL may exibit those qualities but I found them exhausting in stop and go traffic or searching for a parking space when the car lurches forward at the slightest touch of the accelerator. It also was herky jerky wanting to shift when I was only rolling up to the sea of brakelights ahead of me. If I dare sneezed, I would have launched into the back seat of the vehicle ahead of me.
Not a problem in the RL. Smooth. Relaxed. Poised and stress diffusing. I have rarely 'faked' the RL into a clumsy shift and nary had to overly finesse the throttle just to maintain a slight roll in traffic. It all feels organic. Yes, it does not anticipate full throttle, but I have learned to control that without drama. And full throttle launches are much more rare in everyday driving than is the need to maintain civility in everyday bump and grind driving. I have said it many times before....I do NOT want to drive an F1 car to work everyday. My back, teeth fillings and neck will not tolerate it. Yet when I get the RL on some country road twisties, a fire lights up under my buttocks.
They are different cars, and as much as features or metrics of the two may be similar, they are not the same car. The better car is the one that serves up the attributes you desire. The TL feel anxious to me, the RL feels confident to me. I do see noticible improvements in build quality on the new TL over my 05L, but you will never convince me it is built as well as the RL. And now my obligatory Acura styling bashing statement...it looks like poo.
I never can understand the dialogs that try to justify the TL trumps the RL. Apples and Oranges.
03-23-2010, 07:32 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Tampa-
dead on! I love my RL...and after driving the TL and my RL back to back - I'm not ready to trade my RL for the TL... I enjoy the serenity and luxury of my RL. Like you said - you don't need an F1 car to get to work. Car mags and reviewers all talk about 0-60, 1/4 mile, skidpad numbers... as if we are all *racing* to work... Those specs may be helpful, and interesting to get an idea as to a cars capabilities...but a cars true utility really is in how it gets it's intended job done. My RL gets me to work and back better than the TL as it's quieter, more comfortable, and smoother.
I do, however, like something that is sporty...and I am fortunate enough to have a toy car for my "speed needs".... so it's easier to rationalize one car that is more pure luxury and one that is purely raw and sporty.
I do feel, however, that if someone was looking for one car to "do it all" and they places *some* value on sportiness - and wanted a luxury car - and wanted an Acura - and were considering the RL vs 2G TL - then whether they prefer the TL or the RL depends on whether they value the luxury/smoothness or the anxiousness/sportiness *more*. You get all of the above in each car - just in different doses.
I am still curious though - how an aspec RL woudl compare to the 2G TL in terms of handling. similar or stll much much different?
dead on! I love my RL...and after driving the TL and my RL back to back - I'm not ready to trade my RL for the TL... I enjoy the serenity and luxury of my RL. Like you said - you don't need an F1 car to get to work. Car mags and reviewers all talk about 0-60, 1/4 mile, skidpad numbers... as if we are all *racing* to work... Those specs may be helpful, and interesting to get an idea as to a cars capabilities...but a cars true utility really is in how it gets it's intended job done. My RL gets me to work and back better than the TL as it's quieter, more comfortable, and smoother.
I do, however, like something that is sporty...and I am fortunate enough to have a toy car for my "speed needs".... so it's easier to rationalize one car that is more pure luxury and one that is purely raw and sporty.
I do feel, however, that if someone was looking for one car to "do it all" and they places *some* value on sportiness - and wanted a luxury car - and wanted an Acura - and were considering the RL vs 2G TL - then whether they prefer the TL or the RL depends on whether they value the luxury/smoothness or the anxiousness/sportiness *more*. You get all of the above in each car - just in different doses.
I am still curious though - how an aspec RL woudl compare to the 2G TL in terms of handling. similar or stll much much different?
