SpicyMikey

No, torque steer is just a term used to describe a negative effect of front wheel drive. The torque from the engine trust causes the front drive wheels to accelerate at different speeds (from a number of factors). This causes the car to "pull" in a direction other then straight when accelerating off the line. AWD eliminates the problem because the torque is better distributed to the wheels. Its not the main benefit of having AWD (just a very good side effect).

jhr3uva90

Not having torque steer is a a benefit of NOT having FWD, which is one reason why every luxury brand except Acura has moved away from FWD. If you want a sedan that is not FWD, you have two choices: the RL or a non-Acura. This is another reason why Acura's sales are starting to suffer. Yes, the most popular Lexues are FWD, but at least they offer RWD along with AWD cars. Infiniti abandoned FWD altogether. It's time of Acura to consider something similar, I think.

Oh, and I think that the RL has fewer rattles, etc. than the TL because it is Japanese made.

Tully44

Doesn't Cadillac have FWD (DTS)?

Two main reasons FWD came to be: Better traction and weight savings (which helps with fuel economy). But now-a-days, technology has caught up and as assembly plants convert back to a RWD platform, FWD cars will be limited to compacts & sub-compacts.

Chas2

Yes, DTS is FWD.

Possibly that should be modified to better low speed traction...

I agree with the weight savings, and I would also add packaging to that.

If the entire drive train is packed into the front of the vehicle, it allows for the possibility of a more spacious passenger compartment and trunk due to the size reduction of the traditional driveline hump, which no longer has to deal with a driveshaft and rear differential.

My two cents.

gavine

I was joking. I do know what torque steer is. The following sentence from you is what I mean (only in a positive way through the rear wheels)...."The torque from the engine trust causes the front drive wheels to accelerate at different speeds (from a number of factors)." Sounds a lot like SH-AWD, doesn't it

SpicyMikey

Gotcha. Sorry, I missed the sarcasm

tincup

Spoke to a GM at the dealership where I just bought my RL for delivery in 2 weeks. He said the RL will not have any significant changes for 2008, but for 2009 will be a bit longer and have a V8 engine option.

He also said the TL's will get SH-AWD for 2008.

JAB00

^^I don't know if that is likely to happen. I would guess more so in the 09 model^^

Mokos23

I always trust edmunds, leftlanenews, and AZ automotive news in the off topic section instead of a GM at a dealership where they don't know jack most of the time. They just say so that you'll be thinking of upgrading and give them your business and $$$ again.

CL6

Sorry you live in a world where you can't trust people.

jhr3uva90

DTS is FWD because of Caddy "traditionalists" who don't want that particular model to change. Once those people leave the scene, the DTS will either change or be dropped.

The big reason why so many cars are FWD is cost. It costs less to manufacture an FWD car than a RWD car. For example, having a RWD Infiniti G increased the cost. To offset that, they cheapened the interior of the first-generation G.

I would really like to see a RWD TL instead of an AWD version. The SH-AWD will add weight and might not add much more handling advantage over a RWD model.

SpicyMikey

I'd believe his bit about the '08's. He should know since the '08's are in the box and ready to be delivered to dealers in 8 weeks. However, he's totally guessing about the '09's unless he has contacts inside the inner circles of Honda.

By the way, the GM at my Acura dealer also stated there were no significant changes (features or price) with the '08 RL's. I believe him.

Tully44

The Caddy traditionalists left GM looong ago (circa 1984) when the Fleetwood name was dropped and the first FWD was released. Those traditionalists moved over to Lincoln. From 1984 to the early 90s, Lincoln's reliability was very poor. One significant reason for Lexus' early success was due to the traditionalists discovering the RWD platform of the LS 400 and, as they say, the rest is history.

Caddy's drop from the premier luxury brand dates back to 1984 when they went to a FWD platform. They'll never regain the crown. They've made progress and the STS (and even the DTS) are very good cars. But GM still lags a car generation behind BMW, MB and Lexus.

jhr3uva90

Well, I think there are still some "old heads" who prefer the DTS (Deville) the way it is.

Msnowdon

When will we find more out about the 2008?

neuronbob

We usually officially hear about new Acura models around 9/1. Sometimes we get a hint at the springtime auto shows, but there hasn't been a peep about a changed RL so far.

SpicyMikey

From what I've been told, and heard from others as well, the '08 RL is coming early this year (for whatever reason)

Mokos23

maybe due to the introduction of the new TSX and TL in 2008.

SpicyMikey

Yea, we certainly can't be sure. Certainly, it tells me one thing. Theres really nothing changed from an assembly line/tooling perspective. The '08's are probably the same car with an '08 VIN stamped on it. Maybe a new taillight design?

Tully44

Actually, I think the headlight/tailight design still looks fresh. Besides the obvious increase in marketing, color schemes and new wheel designs (including 18" as standard) are the changes I'm expecting to see.

Msnowdon

I wish we would see a new TL for the MY 2008.

Michael

acura man

To end all speculation, there will be no changes to the 2008 RL. They will possibly do away with the non-tech model and they have no plans for revision until late 2009 as a 2010 model and we will start recieving the 2008 allocation in July to compete with the other auto makers.

SpicyMikey

That confirms what I heard from my brother's Acura dealership. NO CHANGE and delivery in JULY

neuronbob

That's what I'm hearing, too, but I didn't know about the early allocation.

I guess the base model isn't doing so hot after all.

GoHawks

Is that a surprise? I knew it was doomed from the very beginning. Why would anyone opt to spend $45K for a "base" model, when they knew in reality that the next trim level up could be had for ~$42K?

Msnowdon

This is a bummer, as I wanted a new car this year.

VOdoc

Not really a surprise. I was pretty doubtful about the idea of a stripped RL all along. If you want a de-contented luxury car, then you could buy a nice-looking but gutless Buick Lucerne for less than $30K.

The big mistake was confusing the terminology. "Tech" is really the lowest acceptable trim level in 2007, whereas it connoted top of the line in 2006. Not smart.

Mokos23

what about the TSX and TL acurasalesman? hear anything new about them?

TSX69

The only 1 that I can help U w/ is BMW {The table is out of alignment but the 1st # is April 2007, then 2007 Total Sales to Date, April 2006 and finally Total 2006 Sales to Date} :

Model Year-to- Year-to-
April Date April Date
2007 2007 2006 2006

525i (E60) 209 3,180 993 4,160
525xi (E60) 232 1,533 306 1,961
528i (E60) 541 541 0 0
528xi (E60) 271 271 0 0
530i (E60) 327 3,350 813 3,899
530xi (E60) 441 2,460 574 3,007
530xi Sports Wagon (E60) 39 356 188 1,000
535i (E60) 471 471 0 0
535xi (E60) 400 400 0 0
535xi Sports Wagon (E60) 48 48 0 0
545i (E60) 0 0 0 6
550i (E60) 472 1,619 643 2,341
M5 (E60) 141 490 182 1,424
5 Series 3,592 14,719 3,699 17,798

neuronbob

Not at all. It would have been better to start off with a base model in the beginning, along with "tech" and CMBS/PAX. But I don't run Acura marketing.

As far as the BMW numbers, the RL is selling better than its direct competitor, the 530ix.

i_mobile

Thanks a lot for this info. I think it gives us a far better picture that whole numbers alone. The RL sold in both April 2006 and April 2007 better than any single engine/drive type configuration for the 5 series. So, back at what noobie was originally saying: Yes, the 5 series outsells the RL more than 5 to 1, but with 13 times the number of possible engine/drive type combinations.

SpicyMikey

Which means what? I think it means; Customers want choice. A fancy restaurant with a full menu will draw more customers and excitement then one with a limited menu. Of course, that doesn't mean the food will be better with the full menu restaurant. It also doesn't mean your profits will be better. However, it will certainly increase the cash flow and allow the customers to be in a place "to be seen".

It all depends on what kind of customers you are targeting and what your goals are as a business. Neither is better then the other. There just different business plans. Honda seems happy with Acura being a niche car maker with a limited floor plan.

By the way, there's a great "Italian kitchen" restaurant here in Orlando I go to all the time. 12 tables, no decor, small menu, but GREAT food and value. It's my favorite spot. Hmmm, I see a pattern developing with me.

White92

Not to nitpick, but the 08 RL is scheduled for July production with "August" delivery. 08 TSX will be the same. 08 TL and RDX will be July production with July delivery. 07 MDX production will go through the first part of August. We will see the 08 soon after that.

Chas2

Seems to be reflective of the fact that they have to ship it over from Japan vs the others are made in North America...

noobie

Unfortunately not. The 530xi is discontinued and replaced by the 535xi. There are few 530xis left around and April is a cutover month. The combined 530xi and 535xi sales are 871, still higher than RL. The YTD for the 530xi is also higher

I really like the way Acura and Honda sell their cars. I dislike the option creep of BMW, Mercerdes and to a lesser extent Lexus and Infiniti where they entice you with a low base price for soemthing youwould never buy only to find out the car you want is tens of thousands more.

I don't know. Maybe when you get to a certain price point or perceived status level, people like to option a car out and pay more. I prefer getting all the goodies for a lower price.

CL6

In car sales guy talk you get them in on the Mooch model then upsell them on the one they'd really rather have but don't want to admit it, then tell them if they really want that model it'll take 8 weeks to order it and they usually sign on the dotted line. For those who don't, great, but the law of averages says most will which is why true premium brands do this. Honda/Acura buyers are value-minded overall and don't like this. But you're not selling value in a 50 grand car (or more) so much as you're selling the complete idea of the car and the brand.

Hardly anybody walks into BMW or Mercedes with their pennies all counted hoping they can move the payment down $40 per month.

You also get the Acura buyer justifying stepping up to a 50 grand car whereas with a Lexus or BMW or whatever they've already made that leap and are wavering between the 60 grand model and the 50 grand one. Big difference!

acura man

Your correct, it will take a little longer for the RL has to come from Japan!

acura man

Nothing new for either but the TSX will be redesigned next year and introduced as a 2009 model and from what I hear SH awd.

White92

The new TSX will be out in the spring of 2008. Rumors online have stated that it will have SH-AWD and a turbo engine. Don't look for that right from the start. The new TL will be here in the fall of 2008.