2008 MidModel Refresh
04-24-2007, 10:09 PM
#1
1st Gear
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2008 MidModel Refresh
I understand the 2nd generation RL may be due for a mid-model refresh, which could be introduced as an early summer release of the 2008 model. This would explain the $3500 marketing funds to clear existing inventory.
Looking back in history, the mid-model refresh of 1st generation RL included more aggressive frontend, tail-lights and minor changes to side profile, whereas the MDX mid-model restyle was more modest (tail lights, dual exhaust, minor cosmetic trim changes).
I wonder what Acura has planned for the 08 RL? Simply new grill and tail lights, or something more radical to better compete with M35/45, G and the BMW 5-series?
Looking back in history, the mid-model refresh of 1st generation RL included more aggressive frontend, tail-lights and minor changes to side profile, whereas the MDX mid-model restyle was more modest (tail lights, dual exhaust, minor cosmetic trim changes).
I wonder what Acura has planned for the 08 RL? Simply new grill and tail lights, or something more radical to better compete with M35/45, G and the BMW 5-series?
04-24-2007, 10:21 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
If the current RL gets a refresh, I suspect it will be fairly minor. I don't see the basic shape changing very much. Maybe the grille (brushed like the TL or a shield like the MDX). I've heard rumours of chrome-look taillights, which I could see with chrome surrounds in the headlight enclosure. Maybe the bumper shape changes a little.
Even the 1G RL refresh kept the same basic structure; changing the hood, trunk, headlights, tail lights, bumpers, and some trim. I can't see the current RL getting even that much of a makeover.
It could get the 3.7L motor without much change on the outside, though. After all, the GS went from the 300 to the 350 without much of an exterior freshening.
Rob144
Even the 1G RL refresh kept the same basic structure; changing the hood, trunk, headlights, tail lights, bumpers, and some trim. I can't see the current RL getting even that much of a makeover.
It could get the 3.7L motor without much change on the outside, though. After all, the GS went from the 300 to the 350 without much of an exterior freshening.
Rob144
04-24-2007, 11:50 PM
#3
Proboscis-free zone
SpicyMikey reported in another thread that his dealer had said there were no changes planned for the 2008 model. Thus he is buying a 2007.
Remember that Acura offered $4000 dealer cash by the end of the 2006 year with minimal changes planned for 2007.
Remember that Acura offered $4000 dealer cash by the end of the 2006 year with minimal changes planned for 2007.
04-25-2007, 12:20 AM
#4
CLS 6MT Navi
Really disappointed that they do not add the cooled seats...very useful here in TX, they already have the option built on the non-US cars. Better rims would be good too.
They'll probably just change the tailights.
They'll probably just change the tailights.
04-25-2007, 08:11 AM
#6
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The car already competes will with the competition. I have driven a GS300 AWD and the RL is flat out superior to it in almost every way...and I'm a Lexus fanboy.
It isn't the car's fault people aren't buying it since it doesn't have the "prestige" they want.
It isn't the car's fault people aren't buying it since it doesn't have the "prestige" they want.
04-25-2007, 08:24 AM
#7
Instructor
Originally Posted by Rob L
The car already competes will with the competition. I have driven a GS300 AWD and the RL is flat out superior to it in almost every way...and I'm a Lexus fanboy.
It isn't the car's fault people aren't buying it since it doesn't have the "prestige" they want.
It isn't the car's fault people aren't buying it since it doesn't have the "prestige" they want.
the M35 AWD and GS350 AWD. But as you said the car just doesn't have the "prestige" they are looking for.
And has been said over and over, Acura needs to get out and truly market the car.
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04-25-2007, 09:20 AM
#8
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by tasdisr
And has been said over and over, Acura needs to get out and truly market the car.
All this current model needs is more low-end torque and a side of marketing hype, but that's a dead horse we keep beating, and Acura keeps ignoring us.
I can only hope the 3G RL they are ignoring the 2G RL for is badass when it's released.
04-25-2007, 10:40 AM
#9
Originally Posted by Rob L
The car already competes will with the competition. I have driven a GS300 AWD and the RL is flat out superior to it in almost every way...and I'm a Lexus fanboy.
It isn't the car's fault people aren't buying it since it doesn't have the "prestige" they want.
It isn't the car's fault people aren't buying it since it doesn't have the "prestige" they want.
Take the BMW 5 series. They are relentless with 50/50 weight distribution and driving experience. Let’s see, standard vinyl seats, a terrible interior layout with complex idrive and flimsy cup holders that pop out of the dash and costly option packages. Yet it outsells the RL by 6 to 1.
Move on to the Mercedes E class. Expensive, ancient nav operation, a numeric keypad to dial phone numbers on the dash, horrible reliability, vinyl seats. However, even Consumer Reports calls it the Mercedes magic carpet ride, coupled with the brand cache and you have 8 to 1 sales advantage.
Infiniti’s M. It has more edge, stiffer ride and sportier feel with throaty exhaust notes. Interior dash that invokes love or hate (personally, it’s not my fav), high revs, noisy, but good low end torque and driving dynamics that give a great tactile driving experience. Outsells RL 5 to 1.
Lexus GS. Cramped and small, but that trademark Lexus thud when you close the door and the quiet ride that Lexus is known for. The 350 is very quick, quiet and offers the Lexus dealership experience. Outsells RL 4 to 1.
I tried to come up with a few words that would sum my test drives of the Acura in the same way as the others and I honestly struggled.
BMW: driving experience above all else with their tag line the Ultimate Driving Machine
Mercedes: Balanced ride, solid feel, Mercedes is still perhaps viewed as the pinnacle of luxury vehicles
Inifinti: sporty, edgy and fun (albeit stiff and noisy)
Lexus: quiet, smooth with the overall Lexus experience (I actually think they missed that mark on this gen GS versus last gen, hence the drop in sales)
Acura: umm, balanced, great value, technology? You know I can’t relate technology and balance as in does everything well into how I feel about a vehicle. The Acura engineers can rationalize all they want about how the SHAWD overcomes the FWD bias in driving experience and the power of the V6 is adequate, but that doesn’t translate into emotional attachment of a pure RWD torque filled V8 (with all the faults that come with them). Intellectually, that’s great and I understand it all, but I want Acura to give their flagship more soul.
I am still vacillating with $50K plus burning a hole in my pocket. I know that the RL is by far the best value at close to $40K, but it’s not moving my heart as much as my head.
04-25-2007, 11:27 AM
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I doubt there will be any change in sheet metal (too costly for a car that isn't selling and too late to salvage sales until the re-design for 2010). Front and rear ends will change, possibly new rims (18" being standard) and a couple new colors. You might see the ignition change to push button and possibly a different steering wheel.
Don't expect much. Acura is not going to throw money into a car that hasn't captured the public's favor as it enters its 4th model year.
Don't expect much. Acura is not going to throw money into a car that hasn't captured the public's favor as it enters its 4th model year.
04-25-2007, 12:05 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by noobie
I’d offer a slightly different view. I think the RL does virtually everything well but does not stand out in any one category, save value. Acura engineers have done a great job in trying to find the right balance and compromise and value point for this car. But let’s face it, at this price point; vehicle purchases become much more emotional and less practical. They need to put more soul in their designs and try to stir car buyer’s emotions. I think the RL is a great car, but at times forgettable.
Take the BMW 5 series. They are relentless with 50/50 weight distribution and driving experience. Let’s see, standard vinyl seats, a terrible interior layout with complex idrive and flimsy cup holders that pop out of the dash and costly option packages. Yet it outsells the RL by 6 to 1.
Move on to the Mercedes E class. Expensive, ancient nav operation, a numeric keypad to dial phone numbers on the dash, horrible reliability, vinyl seats. However, even Consumer Reports calls it the Mercedes magic carpet ride, coupled with the brand cache and you have 8 to 1 sales advantage.
I could not have said this better myself. I also drove Jag, Sabb, Volvo. Still the RL overall is best. We won't even mention American cars. I get a kick out of the American dealer when they ask me what I am driving. There hopes go WAY down.
Infiniti’s M. It has more edge, stiffer ride and sportier feel with throaty exhaust notes. Interior dash that invokes love or hate (personally, it’s not my fav), high revs, noisy, but good low end torque and driving dynamics that give a great tactile driving experience. Outsells RL 5 to 1.
Lexus GS. Cramped and small, but that trademark Lexus thud when you close the door and the quiet ride that Lexus is known for. The 350 is very quick, quiet and offers the Lexus dealership experience. Outsells RL 4 to 1.
I tried to come up with a few words that would sum my test drives of the Acura in the same way as the others and I honestly struggled.
BMW: driving experience above all else with their tag line the Ultimate Driving Machine
Mercedes: Balanced ride, solid feel, Mercedes is still perhaps viewed as the pinnacle of luxury vehicles
Inifinti: sporty, edgy and fun (albeit stiff and noisy)
Lexus: quiet, smooth with the overall Lexus experience (I actually think they missed that mark on this gen GS versus last gen, hence the drop in sales)
Acura: umm, balanced, great value, technology? You know I can’t relate technology and balance as in does everything well into how I feel about a vehicle. The Acura engineers can rationalize all they want about how the SHAWD overcomes the FWD bias in driving experience and the power of the V6 is adequate, but that doesn’t translate into emotional attachment of a pure RWD torque filled V8 (with all the faults that come with them). Intellectually, that’s great and I understand it all, but I want Acura to give their flagship more soul.
I am still vacillating with $50K plus burning a hole in my pocket. I know that the RL is by far the best value at close to $40K, but it’s not moving my heart as much as my head.
Take the BMW 5 series. They are relentless with 50/50 weight distribution and driving experience. Let’s see, standard vinyl seats, a terrible interior layout with complex idrive and flimsy cup holders that pop out of the dash and costly option packages. Yet it outsells the RL by 6 to 1.
Move on to the Mercedes E class. Expensive, ancient nav operation, a numeric keypad to dial phone numbers on the dash, horrible reliability, vinyl seats. However, even Consumer Reports calls it the Mercedes magic carpet ride, coupled with the brand cache and you have 8 to 1 sales advantage.
I could not have said this better myself. I also drove Jag, Sabb, Volvo. Still the RL overall is best. We won't even mention American cars. I get a kick out of the American dealer when they ask me what I am driving. There hopes go WAY down.
Infiniti’s M. It has more edge, stiffer ride and sportier feel with throaty exhaust notes. Interior dash that invokes love or hate (personally, it’s not my fav), high revs, noisy, but good low end torque and driving dynamics that give a great tactile driving experience. Outsells RL 5 to 1.
Lexus GS. Cramped and small, but that trademark Lexus thud when you close the door and the quiet ride that Lexus is known for. The 350 is very quick, quiet and offers the Lexus dealership experience. Outsells RL 4 to 1.
I tried to come up with a few words that would sum my test drives of the Acura in the same way as the others and I honestly struggled.
BMW: driving experience above all else with their tag line the Ultimate Driving Machine
Mercedes: Balanced ride, solid feel, Mercedes is still perhaps viewed as the pinnacle of luxury vehicles
Inifinti: sporty, edgy and fun (albeit stiff and noisy)
Lexus: quiet, smooth with the overall Lexus experience (I actually think they missed that mark on this gen GS versus last gen, hence the drop in sales)
Acura: umm, balanced, great value, technology? You know I can’t relate technology and balance as in does everything well into how I feel about a vehicle. The Acura engineers can rationalize all they want about how the SHAWD overcomes the FWD bias in driving experience and the power of the V6 is adequate, but that doesn’t translate into emotional attachment of a pure RWD torque filled V8 (with all the faults that come with them). Intellectually, that’s great and I understand it all, but I want Acura to give their flagship more soul.
I am still vacillating with $50K plus burning a hole in my pocket. I know that the RL is by far the best value at close to $40K, but it’s not moving my heart as much as my head.
I could not have said this better myself. I also drove Jag, Sabb, Volvo. Still the RL overall is best. We won't even mention American cars. I get a kick out of the American dealer when they ask me what I am driving. There hopes go WAY down.
04-25-2007, 01:55 PM
#12
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
What we all have to remember is that unlike the TL and MDX, the RL is a global car. If the car is selling well globally, HMC may not really care about disappointing US sales. That's not the case with the TL and MDX. Those vehicles were designed with the North American market in mind, and if it doesn't sell well here, then the model is a failure. The RL/Legend may not be a failure for HMC if the numbers are what they projected globally (someone might have the answers to that, I don't). The fact that it has failed to gain traction as the Acura flagship may be disappointing to us as Acura owners, but has it been a failure as Honda's flagship?
04-25-2007, 02:06 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by noobie
Take the BMW 5 series. ... it outsells the RL by 6 to 1.
Move on to the Mercedes E class. ... you have 8 to 1 sales advantage.
Infiniti’s M. ... Outsells RL 5 to 1.
Lexus GS. ... Outsells RL 4 to 1.
Move on to the Mercedes E class. ... you have 8 to 1 sales advantage.
Infiniti’s M. ... Outsells RL 5 to 1.
Lexus GS. ... Outsells RL 4 to 1.
04-25-2007, 02:12 PM
#14
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by i_mobile
I don't think those comparisons are fair. You are comparing a whole model lineup, where the other competitors have different engines and drive types, against a car you can only get with V6 and SH-AWD. I think a realistic comparison can only be done between the RL and the 525xi/530xi, the GS350 AWD, the E350 4matic and the M35x. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a breakdown of sales from the competitors by model.
Customer: I want a V8
Acura: BUT the V6 will give you all the performance you need
Customer: I don't want AWD, I don't need it.
Acura: BUT our SH-AWD goes beyond bad weather performance, It aids overall performance.
Customer: I want a RWD car
Acura: BUT SH-AWD in most cases can outperform RWD
You always have to justify the car so that it doesn't seem like a compromise.
04-25-2007, 03:53 PM
#15
Originally Posted by i_mobile
I don't think those comparisons are fair. You are comparing a whole model lineup, where the other competitors have different engines and drive types, against a car you can only get with V6 and SH-AWD. I think a realistic comparison can only be done between the RL and the 525xi/530xi, the GS350 AWD, the E350 4matic and the M35x. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a breakdown of sales from the competitors by model.
Well yes and no. It was a decision by Acura to offer only one version with three trim lines versus more combinations offered by the competition.
My point was really that I feel the Acura does not have large faults that I felt the others have and is an all around well balanced car. Yet it's getting its butt kicked in sales. I think Acura could do better by taking a more aggressive stance in designing the car rather than trying to do all things relatively well and coming up with an undistinguished mixture. Perhaps it's better to invoke a stronger reaction with the buying pubilc (good or bad) and develop some passion rather than walking the middle ground. In the other forums people love or hate the new BMW look. Similarly they love or hate the interior of the M. The RL just doesn't seem to stoke the feelings like the other cars do. There's nothing about it that generates polar views.
For me personally, there is nothing I really dislike about the RL. However, there is nothing I really really love as well. The M, I dislike the interior, but I really like the torque and handling. The 5 series drives great. Hate the idrive and cheap ergonmics. Merc is a really smooth car, but the nav and other features really suck.
04-25-2007, 04:13 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by GoHawks
Valid point, which immediately handicaps the RL when people compare it to the whole model line (i.e. M, GS, 5 series). You then start getting the BUTS
Customer: I want a V8
Acura: BUT the V6 will give you all the performance you need
Customer: I don't want AWD, I don't need it.
Acura: BUT our SH-AWD goes beyond bad weather performance, It aids overall performance.
Customer: I want a RWD car
Acura: BUT SH-AWD in most cases can outperform RWD
You always have to justify the car so that it doesn't seem like a compromise.
Customer: I want a V8
Acura: BUT the V6 will give you all the performance you need
Customer: I don't want AWD, I don't need it.
Acura: BUT our SH-AWD goes beyond bad weather performance, It aids overall performance.
Customer: I want a RWD car
Acura: BUT SH-AWD in most cases can outperform RWD
You always have to justify the car so that it doesn't seem like a compromise.
The M35x offers a V6, AWD, and more room, BUT the interior isn't as nice, the car is noisier and rides harder.
The GS350 offers a V6, AWD, and sharp looks, BUT the interior is cramped, it has a small trunk, and isn't as sporty.
If you want a RWD V8, then you don't want an RL.
Not to knock any of those cars -- this was just an example of reversing our thinking.
Rob144
04-25-2007, 04:38 PM
#17
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
What I LOVE about the RL is the BALANCE is does strike. And that is what Honda is about. Balance performance and efficiency. Be understated and not offensive nor obnoxious. Balance comfort and technology. Offer quality and value.
Honda is not about extremes (maybe Acura would prefer such a reputation). I believe the LEGEND / RL is engineered for the harmony among many things.
However, harmony does not appeal to American passion for the automobile. The other brands have successfully brought passion into their products by metrics (best in class for XXXX), brand recognition or marketing. Acura falls short on the latter two, and the foremost is a product of the LEGEND / RL being a Honda flagship (not designed by Acura) and as previously stated, Honda is not about extremes.
I believe Honda knows that the RL does not strike thae passion nerve so critical in the US luxury market. Especially as it is declining for better mid level product offers. The LEGEND seems to be holding up better in its sales projections in other global markets, even if it never got acceptance in the US.
I have been reading that Honda is seeking brand reputation for safety foremost. The want to emulate Volvo's reputation for safety. They want to be the choice of conservative, efficient, value concious and safety concious buyers. Now, how often have you heard passion and Volvo in the same sentence? I can see this not fitting with Acura's identity search, which for now appears to be technology laden luxosport?
In the end, the RL is what I wanted....even if I am a minority. I'd be happy to see little changes made to the RL in the MMY.
Honda is not about extremes (maybe Acura would prefer such a reputation). I believe the LEGEND / RL is engineered for the harmony among many things.
However, harmony does not appeal to American passion for the automobile. The other brands have successfully brought passion into their products by metrics (best in class for XXXX), brand recognition or marketing. Acura falls short on the latter two, and the foremost is a product of the LEGEND / RL being a Honda flagship (not designed by Acura) and as previously stated, Honda is not about extremes.
I believe Honda knows that the RL does not strike thae passion nerve so critical in the US luxury market. Especially as it is declining for better mid level product offers. The LEGEND seems to be holding up better in its sales projections in other global markets, even if it never got acceptance in the US.
I have been reading that Honda is seeking brand reputation for safety foremost. The want to emulate Volvo's reputation for safety. They want to be the choice of conservative, efficient, value concious and safety concious buyers. Now, how often have you heard passion and Volvo in the same sentence? I can see this not fitting with Acura's identity search, which for now appears to be technology laden luxosport?
In the end, the RL is what I wanted....even if I am a minority. I'd be happy to see little changes made to the RL in the MMY.
04-25-2007, 11:51 PM
#18
Instructor
36,000 Miles
Is what I have on my Opulent Blue Pear 05 RL. The car is solid! Is starting to get noticed by more passerbys! The clean and elegant lines set it apart from the crowd and it still looks fresh and new...not dated like other 05's. But most interestingly, she seems to be pulling much stronger than when new...A passenger of mine recently remarked, "Man, what kind of V8 you got in this thing?"
All in all I agree...there much to be said about a well balanced car - matter of fact, its' the essence of what a great automobile is all about...balance!
Although I experienced the expected minor quirks from a first production vehicle. In the final analysis I'm very happy with my purchase. I enjoy the "exclusivity" factor and have come to love my RL
All in all I agree...there much to be said about a well balanced car - matter of fact, its' the essence of what a great automobile is all about...balance!
Although I experienced the expected minor quirks from a first production vehicle. In the final analysis I'm very happy with my purchase. I enjoy the "exclusivity" factor and have come to love my RL
04-26-2007, 11:37 AM
#19
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Mmc
Acura will be doing the MMC for the RL in 2yrs, extending the 2nd Gen for another 4yrs.
Acura has created a new design center in Cali. seperating Honda and Acura design teams. The next RL will be the first project they will embark on. I can't comment much more on details other than they look to design the vehicle around the powertrain
Acura has created a new design center in Cali. seperating Honda and Acura design teams. The next RL will be the first project they will embark on. I can't comment much more on details other than they look to design the vehicle around the powertrain
04-26-2007, 11:46 AM
#20
Senior Moderator
Doubt this is actually true, though Acura is close to the vest.
Further, the Acura design center has been open for some time. My understanding was that the 3G TL was their first design.
If Acura hopes to get four more years out of this model (which I doubt), they'd better start marketing like crazy to the public (as opposed to the dealers with the incentive) like they want it to last that long.
Further, the Acura design center has been open for some time. My understanding was that the 3G TL was their first design.
If Acura hopes to get four more years out of this model (which I doubt), they'd better start marketing like crazy to the public (as opposed to the dealers with the incentive) like they want it to last that long.
04-26-2007, 12:17 PM
#21
'06 Celestial/Black
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Originally Posted by Rob144
If you want a RWD V8, then you don't want an RL.
04-26-2007, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
Doubt this is actually true, though Acura is close to the vest.
Further, the Acura design center has been open for some time. My understanding was that the 3G TL was their first design.
If Acura hopes to get four more years out of this model (which I doubt), they'd better start marketing like crazy to the public (as opposed to the dealers with the incentive) like they want it to last that long.
Further, the Acura design center has been open for some time. My understanding was that the 3G TL was their first design.
If Acura hopes to get four more years out of this model (which I doubt), they'd better start marketing like crazy to the public (as opposed to the dealers with the incentive) like they want it to last that long.
The info I provided is acurate.
Acura Design center will have it's grand opening on the 23rd of May.
The 3rd Gen TL is designed by Honda/Acura design team/center in Ohio.
Acura WILL keep the RL for an additional 2yrs.
04-26-2007, 12:34 PM
#23
Instructor
I was also under the impression that the design center was already opened, but did a search and found this article.
HONDA TO BUILD NEW CAL DESIGN CENTER
TORRANCE - 03/30/06 - Honda has broken ground on its new $15 million Acura Design Center, the latest expansion of the auto maker's product design and development capabilities in North America.
The Acura Design Center is scheduled to open in summer 2007 and "will play a critical role in the development of new concepts and designs that will lead directly to future Acura products developed in North America," the company said in a statement.
The facility will be located adjacent to Honda R&D America's existing Los Angeles Center, which will continue to research and design future Honda products.
Separately, the company is opening a new advanced design studio in Pasadena that will work to advance new future design concepts, giving Honda four R&D facilities in California.
The groundbreaking ceremony was conducted by Honda on the 20th anniversary of the creation of the Acura model, the world's first Japanese luxury nameplate and the first Japanese luxury automaker to design, develop and manufacture its vehicles in North America, beginning with the 1997 Acura CL coupe.
Today, nearly two-thirds of all Acura vehicles sold in America are researched, designed, developed and manufactured exclusively in North America, including the Acura TL sedan and Acura MDX luxury sport-utility vehicle.
Honda R&D Americas began its operations in California in 1975 with local market research activities and has steadily grown its capabilities over the past 30 years to include all aspects of new vehicle design and development, the company said.
Recent development efforts include products like the Acura MDX and TL sedan, Honda Ridgeline, Pilot and Element, and the all-new Civic Coupe and Civic Si.
With the addition of the Acura Design Center and the advanced design studio, the company will operate 10 major facilities in North America with more than 1,300 designers, engineers and support personnel engaged in the development of Honda and Acura passenger cars, motorcycles and power equipment products for North America and global markets.
Honda's main centers of operation include the Los Angeles Center responsible for market research, concept development and styling design; the Ohio Center responsible for complete product development, testing and support of North American supplier and manufacturing operations; and road test facilities in Southern California's Mojave Desert area and Ohio.
Power equipment R&D is conducted at the company's facility in North Carolina.
HONDA TO BUILD NEW CAL DESIGN CENTER
TORRANCE - 03/30/06 - Honda has broken ground on its new $15 million Acura Design Center, the latest expansion of the auto maker's product design and development capabilities in North America.
The Acura Design Center is scheduled to open in summer 2007 and "will play a critical role in the development of new concepts and designs that will lead directly to future Acura products developed in North America," the company said in a statement.
The facility will be located adjacent to Honda R&D America's existing Los Angeles Center, which will continue to research and design future Honda products.
Separately, the company is opening a new advanced design studio in Pasadena that will work to advance new future design concepts, giving Honda four R&D facilities in California.
The groundbreaking ceremony was conducted by Honda on the 20th anniversary of the creation of the Acura model, the world's first Japanese luxury nameplate and the first Japanese luxury automaker to design, develop and manufacture its vehicles in North America, beginning with the 1997 Acura CL coupe.
Today, nearly two-thirds of all Acura vehicles sold in America are researched, designed, developed and manufactured exclusively in North America, including the Acura TL sedan and Acura MDX luxury sport-utility vehicle.
Honda R&D Americas began its operations in California in 1975 with local market research activities and has steadily grown its capabilities over the past 30 years to include all aspects of new vehicle design and development, the company said.
Recent development efforts include products like the Acura MDX and TL sedan, Honda Ridgeline, Pilot and Element, and the all-new Civic Coupe and Civic Si.
With the addition of the Acura Design Center and the advanced design studio, the company will operate 10 major facilities in North America with more than 1,300 designers, engineers and support personnel engaged in the development of Honda and Acura passenger cars, motorcycles and power equipment products for North America and global markets.
Honda's main centers of operation include the Los Angeles Center responsible for market research, concept development and styling design; the Ohio Center responsible for complete product development, testing and support of North American supplier and manufacturing operations; and road test facilities in Southern California's Mojave Desert area and Ohio.
Power equipment R&D is conducted at the company's facility in North Carolina.
04-26-2007, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Atl Acura Guy
Sorry to burst your bubble but your info is not correct.
Excerpt:
"The next big step for Acura and our U.S. R&D operations is the opening of another design studio this summer, the Acura Design Center. We have been designing Acura products in America for more than a dozen years."
04-26-2007, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by i_mobile
http://world.honda.com/NAIAS2007/AcuraKeynote/videos/
Excerpt:
"The next big step for Acura and our U.S. R&D operations is the opening of another design studio this summer, the Acura Design Center. We have been designing Acura products in America for more than a dozen years."
Excerpt:
"The next big step for Acura and our U.S. R&D operations is the opening of another design studio this summer, the Acura Design Center. We have been designing Acura products in America for more than a dozen years."
The design studio that is opening this summer will employee individuals who will design and develop future vehicles for Acura only. Honda MFG. has in the past shared design, R&D resources for Honda and Acura vehicles. In order to advance the ACURA brand image and product development, they needed to seperate the two where it needs it the most-product design and development.
This was a concept that Toyota was very wise to implement when they created Lexus, allow it to be a seperate entity. Seperate divisions from product development, marketing, manufacturing. This has paid huge dividends not only in terms of brand image but also in the form of profits. They have a saying "Kaizen", which means "constant never-ending improvement".
So many members here and on other forms have criticized Honda Mfg. for "not getting it right" and creating vehicles that "doesn't stir the soul". Just look at what people say about the current RL! People have pleaded for a change in design/engineering staff , to bring in "new blood". Well... here it is.
04-27-2007, 08:47 PM
#26
Guys:
It seems to me that Acura will continue producing V6 engines and SH-AWD vehicles. Their marketing strategy of offering cars "fully loaded" with very few options will continue. It's fun to discuss all these issues, but car companies move very slowly and no one here truly has inside information. A V8 engine option would make sense, but they would have to have other vehicles that could use it. For instance the MDX and NSX would have to adopt them both in my humble opinion.
I'm very happy with my RL and it seems most people here are as well.
It seems to me that Acura will continue producing V6 engines and SH-AWD vehicles. Their marketing strategy of offering cars "fully loaded" with very few options will continue. It's fun to discuss all these issues, but car companies move very slowly and no one here truly has inside information. A V8 engine option would make sense, but they would have to have other vehicles that could use it. For instance the MDX and NSX would have to adopt them both in my humble opinion.
I'm very happy with my RL and it seems most people here are as well.
04-27-2007, 09:29 PM
#27
Senior Moderator
Well, I stand corrected and I appreciate the info. So the 3G TL was designed AND built in Ohio. 
Go Buckeyes! It's too bad the test drivers don't make the 120 mile trip to northeast Ohio....would love to catch a picture of a new TL or RL on I-480....
I eagerly await the 3G RL. Designed in America, it will hopefully be as much a hit as the 3G TL has been
. And maybe Acura will actually MARKET the car.
Go Buckeyes! It's too bad the test drivers don't make the 120 mile trip to northeast Ohio....would love to catch a picture of a new TL or RL on I-480....I eagerly await the 3G RL. Designed in America, it will hopefully be as much a hit as the 3G TL has been
. And maybe Acura will actually MARKET the car.
04-27-2007, 11:13 PM
#28
Proboscis-free zone
The lengthy news release mentions the TL and MDX, yet pointedly excludes the RL...sort of validates the sense we have that Acura considers the current RL a red-headed stepchild.
As long as the 3G RL ( = 5G LEGEND) isn't BUILT in the US, it could be a winner.
As long as the 3G RL ( = 5G LEGEND) isn't BUILT in the US, it could be a winner.
05-05-2007, 01:56 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
Further, the Acura design center has been open for some time. My understanding was that the 3G TL was their first design.
Honda is a global company and, to paraphrase Fred Thompson in Hunt for Red October:
"Son, the Japanese don't take a crap without a plan."
Trouble is, after Mr. Honda died, they didn't have a plan. He rammed the NSX down his company's throats. He died and things fell apart. Let's hope they're back on the Fred Thompson line now.
05-07-2007, 08:15 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by acuralvr1
Guys:
It seems to me that Acura will continue producing V6 engines and SH-AWD vehicles. Their marketing strategy of offering cars "fully loaded" with very few options will continue. It's fun to discuss all these issues, but car companies move very slowly and no one here truly has inside information. A V8 engine option would make sense, but they would have to have other vehicles that could use it. For instance the MDX and NSX would have to adopt them both in my humble opinion.
I'm very happy with my RL and it seems most people here are as well.
It seems to me that Acura will continue producing V6 engines and SH-AWD vehicles. Their marketing strategy of offering cars "fully loaded" with very few options will continue. It's fun to discuss all these issues, but car companies move very slowly and no one here truly has inside information. A V8 engine option would make sense, but they would have to have other vehicles that could use it. For instance the MDX and NSX would have to adopt them both in my humble opinion.
I'm very happy with my RL and it seems most people here are as well.
I've refrained from posting any more negative comments about my RL servicing experience, and will likely regret continuing on at this juncture...I've thoroughly enjoyed visiting here and this kind of enthusiast site should be fun, but, there's a whole lot of folks here preoccupied with sales, so...
Those folks who opined that having less accessories would sell more RL's were wrong. Those who think a V8 or RWD will sell more RL's are wrong, also.
For myself, I haven't purchased an MDX or another RL because of the incredible, conspiratorial, lies told me at three Southern dealerships regarding having warranty work done on my '05RL...beginning sometime in November, 2005 when I first decided to have some of my problems fixed...known issues...and long after the fixes for these issues were addressed in TSB's and posted online.
I might could overlook the subsequent shoddy work and the fact that Acura decided to delete options that I want on my next car...i.e. OnStar...but the blatant, incredulous lies absolutely ruined my Acura experience.
I've said it here before, but nobody wants to address what the RL needs..."quality, quality, quality" and "service, service, service."
Acura is going to continue to have sales problems until the corporate rot in the American Acura division that caused my dealership experience is cut out...and I mean aggressively and without remorse, purged. The goober who came up with the "corporate strategy" of "we never heard of door handle problems or of brake problems" or "you know, I just always use my key fob to lock the doors" crap needs to be fired. Whatever "corporate strategy" caused my headlight adjustment to be stripped out by a dealer and then that dealer sending me out the door twice only to find that they were aimed to the heavens with oncoming traffic flashing me for hundreds of miles in the middle of the night needs to be addressed. Whoever thought that returning my RL to me looking like used, oily rags had been stored in it, represents any kind of standard in automobile service...needs to be fired...and his bosses, too.
These kinds of persistent problems strongly suggest corporate malfeasance in the management of the Acura Division that is trickling down to the local dealership level and affecting customers like myself.
As a fix, I've suggested here that Acura needs to dump all but some very high quality super dealers in major markets. Nationwide, Honda should be selling Acuras, and Honda needs to upgrade their dealerships to reflect the higher quality cars that Honda can build and that Honda is recognized for.
The Koreans are coming...and they're here. I can't imagine that service at any other brand dealership, even the newcomers, can possibly be worse than what I've been through with my Acura.
Fred (disappointed and abandoned in Mississippi)
05-07-2007, 09:42 PM
#31
CLS 6MT Navi
I really agree with the disappointing message that is sent by the dealers thru shoddy service. What seems more important to them is the ratings they get on the surveys, (if they give you the chance to mark it, I have had a few times that service was bad and I was not given a survey). Service writers have even told me, not that 'they want to provide great service', but that 'they don't want a bad rating'.
It's too bad, the quality of the cars is brought down by the substandard service.
Luckily the cars are pretty reliable and I don't have to suffer dealer service too often. We have 2 Acura dealers here and both of them have given poor service.
Sales is not that professional either. Usually I talk to someone who knows very little about Acuras, or worse tells you wrong info. It's really ashame because Honda/Acura has spent so long building a reputation on quality product to have it sullied by lesser quality dealerships. From the labor rates they charge it's unconscionable.
service issues I've had-
- My car radio blasting so loud on a station I don't listen to, speakers cracking.
- - New door ding.
- Bought a Certifed Acura that had a dozen obvious defects, broken items.
- Grease and dirt in the car after service.
- Forgotten customer, had to remind them they had left my car sitting in the drive for 45 minutes with flashers on after they told me it was being serviced!. Gave me a free oil change and mentioned their concern about the survey. This happened to me on 2 different occasions.
- Left my unoperating window down in the rain when I had asked them to get it closed.
- Said they'd order parts and call me when they got in. They never called and the parts were in.
- Give you a loaner - which a few times meant you go to Thrifty rent a car a get an Avia?
that's just a few of the things. I never go to them now except for warranty work.
They have done some good service, but I have little confidence overall.
I blame management and maybe higher ups.
I don't know if other brands do the same, I only assume that Lexus really wants you as a happy customer, but I don't know from experience. I find local independent shops are more accountable than $100 hour dealers.
It's too bad, the quality of the cars is brought down by the substandard service.
Luckily the cars are pretty reliable and I don't have to suffer dealer service too often. We have 2 Acura dealers here and both of them have given poor service.
Sales is not that professional either. Usually I talk to someone who knows very little about Acuras, or worse tells you wrong info. It's really ashame because Honda/Acura has spent so long building a reputation on quality product to have it sullied by lesser quality dealerships. From the labor rates they charge it's unconscionable.
service issues I've had-
- My car radio blasting so loud on a station I don't listen to, speakers cracking.
- - New door ding.
- Bought a Certifed Acura that had a dozen obvious defects, broken items.
- Grease and dirt in the car after service.
- Forgotten customer, had to remind them they had left my car sitting in the drive for 45 minutes with flashers on after they told me it was being serviced!. Gave me a free oil change and mentioned their concern about the survey. This happened to me on 2 different occasions.
- Left my unoperating window down in the rain when I had asked them to get it closed.
- Said they'd order parts and call me when they got in. They never called and the parts were in.
- Give you a loaner - which a few times meant you go to Thrifty rent a car a get an Avia?
that's just a few of the things. I never go to them now except for warranty work.
They have done some good service, but I have little confidence overall.
I blame management and maybe higher ups.
I don't know if other brands do the same, I only assume that Lexus really wants you as a happy customer, but I don't know from experience. I find local independent shops are more accountable than $100 hour dealers.
05-07-2007, 11:47 PM
#32
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The real reason is that the RL and TL are too close together in terms of hp and size. If the RL was longer, taller, and wider like the length and V8 of the Lexus LS460 maybe the brand consious American buying public will spend their money on the RL.
05-08-2007, 07:17 AM
#34
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by 123456SPEED
I really agree with the disappointing message that is sent by the dealers thru shoddy service.
........
I don't know if other brands do the same, I only assume that Lexus really wants you as a happy customer, but I don't know from experience. I find local independent shops are more accountable than $100 hour dealers.
........
I don't know if other brands do the same, I only assume that Lexus really wants you as a happy customer, but I don't know from experience. I find local independent shops are more accountable than $100 hour dealers.
As I've said, my Acura service dept is very good. Others are no doubt not so good. I'm suspecting the same thing can be said about any service dept. It all comes down to the local people working there and their attitudes. There's a reason we all don't drive American cars anymore. Now if we could only get the Japanese to do the service too!
05-09-2007, 09:56 PM
#35
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service
Bad service can come from any brand dealership. You hear so much about wonderful Lexus service.......the reason I left Lexus was their poor service. I have had 3 Lexus vehicles. My first vehicle was a ES300 and it was out for a while and since it was based on the Camry, I think they were pretty good about servicing and it didn't really have many problems. The second was a LX470.....again pretty trouble free except some interior issues to which they messed up the seats and returned it to me in that condition.......when I sent it back, they worked on it and returned it with a blown rear speaker from having the audio on max. My last vehicle was a GX470 the first year it was out with their new KDSS suspension. I had nothing but suspension problems and no one knew how to fix it......the service manager in despiration on a 4th trip told me that the problem "was a figment of my imagination" (after he had agreed with me on 2 prior trips that they didn't know how to fix the problem but were working on it with corporate.) That's when I left Lexus and traded in that truck at Acura for the RL. My service experience with Acura has not been perfect either. When I had them service the center console for continual creaking noises, the car was returned to me with the leather trim that goes along the center console with cut marks in it from where they took it off. When I pointed it out, I was given a new loaner until it was fixed. At least the service manager didn't tell me that it was a figment of my imagination.
I guess my point is that no dealer service is perfect..........IMO......you just have to find the one that tries to make it right if they screw up instead of trying to screw you.
I guess my point is that no dealer service is perfect..........IMO......you just have to find the one that tries to make it right if they screw up instead of trying to screw you.
05-09-2007, 09:59 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by 123456SPEED
Really disappointed that they do not add the cooled seats...very useful here in TX, they already have the option built on the non-US cars. Better rims would be good too.
They'll probably just change the tailights.
They'll probably just change the tailights.
05-09-2007, 11:50 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
The real reason is that the RL and TL are too close together in terms of hp and size. If the RL was longer, taller, and wider like the length and V8 of the Lexus LS460 maybe the brand consious American buying public will spend their money on the RL.
The problem is that Acura draws value-minded customers. Those people want EVERYTHING for their money. Those people generally don't buy "true" luxury cars, which by definition are not value-oriented cars. Luxury car buyers don't think about Acuras and Acura buyers generally don't buy luxury cars. THAT is why neither the RL or any other Acura with a base price of US$45K or higher will be a big seller relative to its more illustrious branded competition.
And one more thing, many people who drive RLs over TLs do so because: 1) the want to avoid torque steer, and 2) they appreciate a TRUE Japanese car as opposed to only appreciating a good deal.
05-10-2007, 07:05 AM
#38
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
And one more thing, many people who drive RLs over TLs do so because: 1) the want to avoid torque steer, and 2) they appreciate a TRUE Japanese car as opposed to only appreciating a good deal.
05-10-2007, 12:10 PM
#39
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
And one more thing, many people who drive RLs over TLs do so because: 1) the want to avoid torque steer, and 2) they appreciate a TRUE Japanese car as opposed to only appreciating a good deal.
Not completely true. I traded up from my TL because of the features for the price compared to the competition, the looks (which I've since improved on) and the relative lack of rattles. Just ask anyone who traded a TL for an RL, there are lots here.
The lack of torque steer is the cherry on top of the whipped cream of this particular pie.
