MMike1981

the SHAWD really addresses dry road performance and turns the RDX up a notch. Of course it helps in bad weather, but if its gone, it will lose so many performance and handling characteristics that made it stand out and feel so planted to the road.

Pickler - if you read on in the C&D article, the realized market for the RDX was and is middle aged folk or couples, mostly females. Acura never came close to the intended RDX demographic, which means, the 2013 has been planned around its actual market and not the "TURBO & SHAWD" enthusiasts. Guess that makes Acura sleep better at nite, they may lose the small niche of customers such as those of us who come to this board, but the RDX's main market will most likely grow.

From what ive read about the new CRV AWD, it behaves more like SHAWD and less like honda's traditional system.

mrgold35

I think the new CRV AWD will work like Acura "sh-awd" without the "sh" to aid in smoother acceleration with less rear squat. Front to back TQ applied only when accelerating and fwd when you hit cruising speed to help with mpgs.

There will be no side-to-side OR single wheel TQ power split to help drive the RDX out of a tight corner during spirited driving. I’m not sure if the TQ can be split between any of the wheels at zero or low speeds if one side of the car is on the icy stuff (like pulling away from a curb with ice in the gutter).

Litt

The RDX could perhaps get the lighter electric motors on the rear wheels? You gotta wait and see.

pickler

i doubt sales will grow on the new RDX. sales are already growing anyway after the rescission dip in 2007-2009. At least in Canada the RDX is one of the top selling luxury SUVs, i made a post about this, look it up. I'm not too sure about the US but i noticed people there prefer soft comfy cars like lexus, ford and toyota lol.

if RDX goes the way things are indicating my next CUV will probably be the 2013 Hyundai ix45 with 2.0T 274hp and 30mpg or 3.5L 300hp. it's much cheaper too lol.

pickler

the reason why the rdx gets only 24-25 mpg on highway cruising is due to the fact that engine runs in detune/retarded mode when not in boost. The native compression ratio is only 8.8:1 vs 10:1. Acura can dramatically improve highway efficiency by boosting compression ratio and sacrificing boost. The might reduce low/mid range torque but it will actually improve high end horsepower and engine responsiveness. The sonata 2.0t engine runs at 9.5:1 compression ratio and is further enhanced by direct injection.

corduroygt

As much as I hate that SH-AWD and lateral torque vectoring is going away, nobody except the BMW X3 has it either, and it's not hurting the sales of the Q5 or the GLK at all, so Acura probably made a wise decision.

pickler

I have to disagree. The legendary quattro AWD system on the audi is always active. similar to subaru it is always sending power to rear and front. The GLK on the other hand is RWD biased and only AWD when slippage is detected or in cornering situations. RWD > FWD. So the RDX will be the only FWD bias luxury CUV compared to X3, Q5 and GLK. 280-310hp to the front wheels spells disaster for handling: there will be lots of traction control interference, understeer and torque steer. SH-AWD system is probably the best AWD system along with Audi's Quattro and Subaru's symmetrical AWD. Its demise will be surely missed by car enthusiasts.

Now i know the Q5 and GLK lack torque vectoring, so in that case acura was actually offering an extra, which it should being that acura always has been about great value. if you offer the same or less than brands like audi, benz or BMW you will not survive. Torque vectoring is not the most important thing in 4WD systems, amount power sent to rear and front is. acura is completely removing the viscous coupling unit and in a sense making this a FWD car. So the power split of 30F/70R will be translated to 95F/5R. That is not good for handling.

MMike1981

Look up my reply to that post, too, in regards to canadian sales.

Im sure SHAWD & reliability in Canadian weather may have much to do with why Acura is a top-seller, especially the low selling RDX in the US. Not much is better, and in all weather, why not the RDX? One of the cheapest and one of the best handling systems - canadians love it.

whats hilarious about all the hits the RDX takes - it gets DECENT MPG for the powerplant, weight, SHAWD, and lastly the POWER it makes. So many people look that over. Dont get it.

The FWD RDX wrote up great and exhibited none of the dunning expectations you have listed about its potential ability to handle FWD bias power.

MMike1981

correct me if im wrong - but if this were true, acura should be long out of business by now.

corduroygt

I strongly disagree, there is nothing special about Quattro or Subaru's AWD system outside of STi models. The best AWD systems are Nissan Attesa-ETS, BMW xDrive, Mitsubishi Evo's AYC, and SH-AWD.

As far as the RDX having a front biased setup, it's not much different than what we have today with only a maximum of 50% of torque going to the rear axle, and it's 95/5 most of the time. People driving the new CRV system say it's not a crappy reactive system like before, so it should be just fine.

Mr Marco

^Guess you haven't driven either. I was thoroughly impressed by both Audi and Subaru's system. Specifically, I spent over a week driving my sisters Impreza Outback sport (including two hard drives in the twisties). I can see why this car makes some drivers over confident.
I almost shot the ditch, just for fun...but it is not my car.

Very good AWD systems.

pickler

ok dude i would like to see your reasoning behind why the Quattro and symmetrical AWD is trash. First of all the SH-AWD torque transfer to rear of 50% is INCORRECT. SH-AWD on our RDX can send up to 70% of the torque to the rear, 100% of which can be sent to either wheels. This is very significant and if you take your RDX to the track you can actually feel it. I have lost the number of times i oversteered while cornering with the rdx. The RDX suffers from mild oversteer on apex transition, and you can also simulate power oversteer just like you can on a RWD vehicle like the 135i. Very Nice! However, one downfall for SH-AWD is that it does not fully function in 1st gear. I don't know why acura did this but i never go in to a corner in 1st gear, if i do, i end up with sever understeer while on throttle. you can actually tell the difference of no power in the rear with 1st gear and lot more in 2nd. Try it. As for Subaru's AWD system, it's a monster, you get 50-50 power split at all times (no matter the speed or gear) with up to 20-80 or 80-20 torque split when necessary. Same with quattro 40:60 at all times, with upto 70% sent to either axle 85% of which can be applied to either wheel.

I don't like BMW X-Drive system because the vehicles with it have the inferior soft/comfort tuned suspension system. That's why i never purchased an AWD vehicle from BMW. They are slower, worst in handling, heavier and bad in gas mileage. BMW's xdrive is tuned for winter driving, you don't see M cars or 1-series sports cars equipped with them because of its adverse effects on handling.

SH-AWD is nice because it offers torque vectoring at such a price point. So i would put SH-AWD at the top because of its bang for the buck. It actually saved my life one winter going too fast at a narrow road on a cliff.

testing acura sh-awd (caranddriver):
http://www.autos.ca/winter-driving/t...l-drive-system

nice suby cars are very fun on the track or off it! all my cars are AWD except for the TL but it only sends 225 horses to front wheels anyway, just like jerremy clarkson said FWD is ok as long as it has less than ~220 horses. i hate cars with lots of horses going only to front or rear, they are too much of a pain to control in adverse conditions or at the track for my poor driving skills haha.

BLEXV6

Well the litigation is a real big issue for manufacturers. I have had 4 Acura's with Navi and I cant believe they let you input an address on the fly. It's just like texting while you are driving

pickler

i agree, this is a good thing. you know at highway speeds you cover the length a football field in seconds right? so if you don't look and are using your navi for 3-5 seconds, you have covered 300-550ft without attention.

2005 Silver Bullet

You are mistaken. SH-AWD is fully functional in all forward gears.

No problems pulling out of super tight corners with full throttle in first gear in my RDX...SH-AWD engagement is quite evident. Better get yours checked out.

MMike1981

the biggest dig when the 2013 loses SHAWD will be dry-road handling. Thats where the tq vectoring kills everything else and also transforms the RDX from an average suv to a top-handling performance suv. With it gone, expect the same ride manners that you get in every-day driving. You will notice it most, obviously, accelerating while turning (which is really, in most cases, when SHAWD even becomes noticeable).

A great experiment for SHAWD during the winter is set the SHAWD display on the speedo, and hit the gas in snow. Although there are great videos of the MDX climbing hills in snow etc, my RDX has gotten stock in the most neutral conditions, like a parking space. It takes ALOT of messing around to get the system to bias to the rear. Most usually this can happen with the traction control off, in S mode, and hard acceleration, where you can see power being transferred to the rear. What i have noticed is that in most cases, it really reacts just like the CRV where slippage in front-->transfer to rear. All other benefits are DRY ROAD. Acura shows great snow videos - but remember, they are TURNING the vehicle AND accelerating hard in what would cause a treacherous condition on a normal street, most of what you see is NOT how one may operate their car performing flying S-curves.

Other than dry-road handling, SHAWD has let me down a lot in the winter, and of course, your tires make a world of difference. lets not forget, you must be accelerating to get any benefit of SHAWD. Thats quite hard when conditions dont allow. I will say tho, that although i have been stuck in relatively inches of snow - SHAWD has always kept me secure and the traction control works much better and in unison w/SHAWD than other car companies I have driven w/awd. Thus, in the end, although nothing is perfect, SHAWD gets the job done in most situations - which, with it GONE, i am confident that when BAD WEATHER is involved, the new AWD system will be just fine.

MMike1981

...the Conti Extreme DWS were really what turned the RDX into a winter machine...tires tires tires.

pickler

omg that's what i was about to say, although i have a fellow coworker who runs dedicated michelin xi2 in winter and it's a beast.

my oem michelin alpins were still on my car till yesterday when my wife took the car and had the tires replaced at the dealer without telling me of course the dealer installed the same crappy new tires back on, i was so frustrated but i decided not to say anything since i won't be driving the rdx much...lol. but then again the alpins lasted me 100,000km (62k miles) and 4.5 years. I also did some tracking with those tires and occasionally drove the hell out of them. They were always rotated every 20,000km and kept at 32-34psi. i wanted to keep the old tires for auto-x in summer but the damn dealer trashed them
bald oem tires are actually good in dry at around 36-38psi.

Carbon2008RDX

Exactly! Now, where the heck is winter this year?? It's been super wimpy so far. I have brand new DWS on my RDX and am so patiently waiting for some snow and wintery weather already!!! I need my snow fix!

MMike1981

yep....altho kinda happy, my Contis will be toast, not sure they will make it to 30k, showing around 5-4/32s at 24k miles. eh

best all season hands down...worst tread life ive had in a while, hmmm

taeoug

Moving over from the ILX discussion, I was not aware of SH-AWD potentially not being included on the 2013 RDX. Ugh. Goodness Acura. I am still a loyal owner of two Infiniti's but lure me back if you can or my next CUV will be the next gen Infiniti EX35 (hopefully with more room and bigger 3.7 powerplant as those overseas get)

Not to steal from Nissan but "_Shift Acura". Nuff said.

pickler

i'm glad my wife got the oem tires then, lol. 60k miles of treadlife is good for my wallet.

stray_pube

Are you planning on replacing them with another set or do you think you'll try something else?

MMike1981

i made that comment off my last dealer service paperwork. Apparently, they are retarded. Measured them myself, and altho the tread looks a bit worn down - still at 7/32 each corner. The tire comes new around 10/32. So, no replacement any time soon. When i posted that comment i had not measured the tires myself, and i guess the dealer didn't either. morons.

MMike1981

that being said - yes id still put them on unless there is something better out there - nothing else handles the wet or snow better.

corduroygt

I didn't say they were trash, they're just not very special compared to the SH-AWD system we have. It's better than the Audi Q5 and the Subaru AWD systems due to the virtue of having torque vectoring.

I know how and when exactly the SHAWD system works and I've been able to get the rear torque split of 1 bar vs 5 bars on the other side. I transitioned to the RDX from a RWD vehicle and SH-AWD was the only thing that made it acceptable.


Why is having a 50/50 or 40/60 default split better than the 95/5 default split that the RDX has? Remember that these are front heavy cars with at least 60% of the weight in the front. The RDX power split by default is better for fuel efficiency and traction. That's why I don't think the subaru and the audi AWD systems aren't special due to not having torque vectoring like our RDX.

[quote=pickler;13434498]
I don't like BMW X-Drive system because the vehicles with it have the inferior soft/comfort tuned suspension system. That's why i never purchased an AWD vehicle from BMW. They are slower, worst in handling, heavier and bad in gas mileage. BMW's xdrive is tuned for winter driving, you don't see M cars or 1-series sports cars equipped with them because of its adverse effects on handling.
[quote=pickler;13434498]
The X5 and X6 M models have xdrive. For me there are three types of awd systems, reactive crap like the CRV, full time AWD like the Q5/Subarus, and full time with variable torque distribution on both the center diff and the rear diff like the RDX and xdrive.

OneOfOne

seriously? whos buying it now? I lease an ex 35 and very few buy it either. its too small. its not about what bogus 'enthusiasts' online and in magazines 'say' they want. its about what sells. bottom line literally. I leased my ex because its was cheaper than an rdx lease, faster, more luxurious too. too small though

XIS

The EX35 is in a higher league before... definately now. I love it.

Mine is not too small, but it is much faster (RWD) and more luxurious without a doubt... and it is sexy as hell too.

The RDX just got uglier and less unique. Honda and Acura need to wake up quick. they are being passed by almost everyone.