I am wondering how the ELS system sounds in the 2013 RDX? Specifically, how does it compare to the wonderful ELS that you get in the 4G TL Tech?

 

weather would be a good person to answer this question since he'll own both in the next few days.

 

http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/s...4869419&EDATE=

-Generally expect the same components in the 2013 RDX, but the cabin acoustics, for obvious reasons, will be different, more so in bass given the big open area for more resonance. The main difference is dowgrade in power in the RDX to 410 watts, TL has 440.

Next Generation Acura/ELS Premium Surround Debuts on 2009 Acura TL Luxury Performance Sedan


Improved sound system creates a premium audio experience for vehicle owner with an emphasis on quality, performance, luxury and style

NEW YORK, Aug. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- The 2009 Acura TL(R) features the
next generation of the Acura/ELS Surround(R) Premium Audio System,
reengineered to offer extended frequency range, lower distortion, enhanced
clarity and transparency, and improved second row listening experience.
Designed specifically to match the vehicle's interior acoustic
characteristics, the next generation 2009 Acura/ELS Surround(R) audio
system features a new titanium dome tweeter, redesigned woofer, higher
output power and 10 speakers, including new 8-cm SDR rear door speakers.

Developed in collaboration with multi-Grammy(R) Award winning
producer/engineer Elliot "Els" Scheiner, the ELS Surround system has proven
itself with critics and customers alike. Through an emphasis on clarity and
definition and the faithful reproduction of music from a variety of sources
-- including CD, iPod, MP3, and DVD-A -- the ELS Surround system delivers a
studio quality audio experience.

"The ELS systems are all based on authenticity and advancement;
authenticity from working directly with Elliot who has extensive experience
listening, creating, recording and mixing music in the studio," said Mat
Hargett, Chief Engineer and Acura TL Project Leader. "Advancement is
achieved through continuing to raise the bar on studio quality performance,
and then achieving those goals. The system in the all-new TL advances
Acura's premium audio to a new level."

The next generation ELS Surround system has nearly double the total
power output of the first generation, from 225W to 440W and includes more
powerful equalization capabilities and adjustable audio source settings. It
also features new, high-quality speakers, including extended range tweeters
and low distortion mid-range and bass drivers. Eight channels and 10
speakers, including speakers added to each rear door, created an enhanced
listening environment for all passengers.

"It is always exciting to hear the results of a project which spans
several years," said Elliot Scheiner, collaborator on Panasonic's ELS
Surround audio system. "It is the same whether I'm working on automotive
projects or with an artist in the studio. For the new Acura TL, the hours
spent in the development process including the listening, tuning, driving
on the test track and retuning were all worthwhile when I heard the
production system. Our goal was to bring the studio sound experience to the
vehicle, the new TL has achieved that and more."

Tom Dunn, Marketing Group Manager Panasonic Automotive, added: "Our
relationship with Elliot and Acura continues to prosper based upon the
mutual dedication to bringing new technologies and higher levels of system
performance to each successive project. The ELS Surround premium audio
system in the 2009 Acura TL is the latest example of this dedication."

Newly designed, 4-cm, hard dome Titanium-diaphragm tweeters (2) were
selected to reduce distortion, resulting in a clear, transparent sound and
stunning vocal realization. The units feature large-diameter voice coils
for reduced Inter Modulation distortion and are integrated with the tweeter
diaphragms to create an overlapping extension of high-end response down to
1kHz.

In contrast to the conventional speaker designs in the current TL, the
2009 Acura/ELS Surround premium audio system uses new, high-performance,
Super Dynamic Range (SDR) specifications for the 17-cm and 8-cm midrange
and mid-bass speakers. Capable of high-power operation, the rigid SDR
drivers lower extraneous noise, saturation and distortion to reveal new
details in mid-bass and midrange reproduction with their extended range and
double press polyurethane (8-cm) and honeycomb (17-cm) cone construction.

Two 17-cm SDR drivers are mounted in the front doors, and two in the
vehicle rear tray. The two 8-cm drivers have been added to the rear doors,
and a single driver is located in the center of the instrument panel. These
rear door additions provide improved front imaging for rear seat
passengers, as well as enhancing the front seat listening experience, with
highly accurate sound quality and no excessive bass.

The front door SDR drivers have extended low frequencies from the
current 60Hz down to 40Hz. The 8-cm center and rear door speakers extend
their low-frequency response from the current 150Hz down to 90Hz.

A new Super Low Distortion Driver (SLDD) subwoofer has been integrated
and tuned with the structure of the rear package shelf to optimize the
interaction of the speaker with the vehicle. It allows the system to obtain
extended low frequency response -- a deep, powerful bass down to 20Hz --
yet minimizing spurious vibration and rattle.

The unit features a rigid SLDD dual-edge structure, lightweight damping
cone, and a long-excursion voice coil that creates a quick response and a
clear yet aggressive bass sound.

The Acura/ELS Surround Premium Audio System is also available the Acura
MDX(R) luxury SUV, the Acura RDX(R) crossover SUV and all-new Acura TSX(R)
sports sedan.

 

Well compared to the base 2007 TSX we replaced it with it is incredible.

But that sort of goes without saying.

Even the XM sounds better and I always thought that was a signal limitation.

 

I will be more than happy to compare both once I get the RDX next Wednesday. I think the ELS in the Acura is fantastic especially when listening to DVD-Audio DTS in 5.1. The sound is so filling.

I suspect the sound in the RDX may be a tad touch not as refined because of the openess of the vehicle....its a bigger open area compared to the smaller cabin of the TL but I could be wrong. Its still going to be great but as good as the TL? A few days from now will tell

BTW...I am an audiophile....I love music so I have a very good ear for music.

 

Ostrich...Well, the RDX is now home I can tell you this, this RDX is far better than what I had ever dreamed about as far as comfort and ride.

Now going to your original question: Is the ELS better on the RDX than on the TL? The answer is NO. Is it equivalent...I would also say NO. Is it good...I would say YES

Its hard to find words to fully describe how music sounds by using words. I am not trying to imply the ELS is not good here but it doesn't seem as good as my TL. Now, to e fair, I only had a chance to use XM which I know is using a compressed signal ad not the purest form. I will play more with the setting and use my DEMO disc supplied to se how good it plays.

At first, it appeared as if my speakers in the door weren't "outputting" because all I could hear was the centre channel. If you own a Tech RDX, do yourself a favor and drop the centre level speaker and listen to your door speakers come to life

More info to come soon with more in depth comments on my RDX...and with pics too. That will be this weekend.

NOTE: I wish I would traded my TL for the RDX and my RAV4 for something else (maybe an ILX).....This RDX is soooooo amazing!

 

Weather - I'm glad you are so pleased with your new RDX. I pick mine (or I should say, my wife's) tomorrow and can't wait. It's an AWD with Tech package in Silver Moon.

Also, I travelled through Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal this week. Yesterday, I saw a white '13 RDX while on 417 or 40 headed for Montreal. Could it have been you??

 

No doubt that she will be delighted with her RDX....I cannot stop wanting to get into it and go for a drive. It does not drive at all like the previous generation and although I didn't mind the previous one drove, this one is just amazing.

As for the white RDX on the highway, it wouldn't have been me as I live in NB and was traveling from NS to NB

 

the biggest issue with the ELS over the years is attaining the proper balance of the center channel with the front door speakers, and, attaining a proper EQ. The fact that there is still no MID RANGE equalization is ridiculous in a system that is so touted, and, when mid range frequency is just as important as hi & lo.

 

I agree with you on this one and the reason I was commenting to others to not go with the default "middle" setting on the centre speaker as it will overtake the remaining balance and create an unbalanced acoustic environment. Playing with the speaker levels will give a proper and more balanced sound that will bring pleasure to your ears

BTW...I was glad to receive a free DVD-audio demo disc with the RDX

 

weather,

What's the date on the DVD-A demo disc? The last one I knew of was 2009. Did they finally come out with a new one? If it's dated 2011 or 2012, let us know what's on it?

 

My apologies for using the term "new" too loosely....I should have specified that they threw in a DVD-Audio disc (unused) dated of 2008.

Track 6 (prior are intro only) - Foo Fighters
Track 7 - The Doors
Track 8 - Diana Krall
Track 9 - Grover Washington
Track 10 - Steve Miller
Track 11 - Bonnie Raitt
Track 12 - Boz Scaggs
Track 13 - The Eagles
Track 14 - Steely Dan
Track 15 - Donald Fagen
Track 16 - Dire Strait
Track 17 - Fleetwood Mac
Track 18 - Jackson Brown
Track 19 - Simple Plan
Track 20 - Baltimore Symphony Orchestra

 

Thanks weatherman. I was just curious. As a big supporter of DVD-A and 5.1 surround sound, I am always interested in new stuff. It's a shame Acura stopped creating new DVD-Audios to go with the cars.

It was a total blown opportunity, the whole DVD-A thing. I could go on and on about it, but you'd probably pass out from boredom!

 

YAY! Weather, congrats! She is finally home!!! :-) I am so glad that you're enjoying the RDX, and thank you for making the comparison for me.

I love music too - I am a classically trained musician and my ears are pretty good :-) I love the ELS in my TL. I really don't like the Lexus Mark Levinson system much (and yet they charge you an arm and a leg for it!!!), and the BMW, Infiniti and MB systems are nothing close to the ELS. The Audi system is OK, but a bit tinny.... that's why I am wondering if the RDX system is as good!

BTW, how can I get hold of a copy of the Acura DVD-A demo disc now?

 

Ostrich...You could always ask the dealer if they have a copy. You didn't get one with your TL? I had one with the TL and my RDX (two different one)

 

I couldn't agree with you more! After listening to DVD-Audio disc, it seems that everything else sounds like an 8-track! (oups...now I feel old that I know hat an 8 track sounded like!) Amazing how much audio progress we have made through my short life! So I feel your pain....I really do!

 

I need to dig out one of my DVD-A disc again. I always used to carry one in the RL but I have no clue where it went.

@ weather - Give the speakers about 30 - 50 hours to break in then compare it to your TL again. I am interested to see if that makes a difference as speakers usually have a break in period. The new Energy speakers I just got for my house have a 50 hr break in period

 

I don't think you can evaluate an audio system with XM or FM radio. Even MP3 unless it is very high bit rate.
XM is totally compressed and has lost almost all of the stereo information. Plus it sounds like it has limited low and high end.

Please use a high quality CD that you are very familiar with, and play it in your TL and in your RDX to make a comparison.

You shouldn't need very much eq. you shouldn't need to boost the bass and the sub.

I suspect the RDX will have more bass (possibly less acurate) because there is more room for the subwoofer to resonate.

 

You do bring a good point about giving the speakers a bit of time to break in....but I do recall my TL being pretty darn sweet from the get go. Don't get me wrong, I am not implying the sound from the RDX is not great, its just not better than my TL....either on par or slightly (and I mean slightly) inferior. Speaker placements to make a difference and I did notice the RDX had the door speakers quite far to the front of the door panel and almost a bit too far to the front.

I am fully aware that XM is garbage when it comes to audio quality. I did get a chance to audition the DVD audio today and it has change my perception of the stereo. Its pretty good but again, not better than the TL in my opinion.

 

Unbelieveable! Had the car 3 days and have spent a great deal of time learning system. The demo disk provided by Acura provides excellent intro to the system. The sound is exceptional regardless of media. I have recorded several CDs on the hard drive and can't detect any loss of quality.

 

Weather: I would love to know the settings you decide on after you have a chance to tweak the stereo system. Congrats on bringing yours home!
Thanks in advance.

 

^^^ Here are the settings I have on mine but again, music listening is very subjective so the way I like my music may be different than yours:

1. Dolby PLII on
2. Treble +6
3. Bass +2
4. Fade: 2RR (2 notches towards the rear bias)
5. Balance: centre
6. Centre channel: -2
7. subwoofer: +4
8. SVC: high (that doesn't affect sound quality)

As you can see, I like my treble high and a little bit more bass than centre but don't want it to be distorted which is why I don't go too high on the bass. I find the centre channel is too powerful and leaving it in the middle (0) makes it feel as if the side speakers don't output at all. I find that given the size of the vehicle and the openess of the vehicle, putting a little emphasis on the rear speakers give it a more balanced effect, especially for the people sitting in the driver/passenger seat.

Not sure if these will tickle your ear drums but that is how I have mine set up....

Oh...and I have my hearing aid set at +4. (just kidding....)

 

i don't have ELS sound on my TSX will it be right to say only DVD audio sounds good on ELS, what about other types of audio quality such as the CD audio...
also i like to know how does it sound when you play mp3, wav etc..

 

^^^ CD, DVD Audio and even MP3 will play quite well given the proper calibration/settings of the speakers. No doubt that a DVD Audio in 5.1 will be the "cat's Meow" but you will still enjoy the other formats. The one to stay away for gauging the system is XM....Sound is too compressed and the audio quality is horrible (in my opinion)

 

Even when not playing DVD-A, the mp3/wma discs sound great in Dolby II virtual 5.1. That said, I dont play my trance/techno tracks in Dolby II. Only music with vocals like my 80's light rock, R&B, Hip-Hop, & Jazz when I have the windows up. Windows down, I turn off the Dolby II as the amp pushes more power in 2.1 Stereo. It's a very noticeable difference if you play a track in Dolby II vol @ 30 vs 2.1 Stereo @ 30. This is also in my 08 TL so take this review with a grain of salt lol.

My settings are the following:

Treble- +6
Bass- 0
Center- +6
Fader- 0
Balance- 0
Sub- +6

 

^^Centre speaker at +6? Really.....even at 0, I find it over powers all other speakers and gives the impression that the music is solely coming from the centre and that door speakers aren't outputting any sound....I can only imagine that at +6, it would be even worst.

This just goes to show on how subjective music listening can be. I agree with you on the Dolby PLII as well....Mine is on. I have given my setting earlier on in this thread.

 

Bluetooth Audio = Fantastic
AM/FM Radio = Good
XM Sat Radio = So-So

 

That's just it. To YOU +6 for center is overkill. If the 3rd gen had 400+ watts vs. 225 watts I may feel that way.

 

This is one of the best systems ive had in any car, BMW, audi, MB, VW Fender or Dynaudio, etc. Less fanfare than say the ML in Lexus, but its better SQ IMO

 

How would you guys say this ELS system compares to other brands?

Such as Harman Kardon Logic 7 in some of the newer BMW's and Merc's?

 

^^ No doubt that the ELS system is quite remarkable...Its been getting rave reviews and I will say that although its VERY good in the RDX, the ELS in my TL is just sublime! I am sure that the main difference is associated with the acoustics in both vehicles. Their layout is different and the sound in the TL is more smothering...Hard to explain.

That being said, sound is VERY subjective....everyone hear things differently (just look at the various opinions n settings). The best example is how some people enjoy Yamaha receivers, while other prefer the sound of Denon, or HK, and other prefer Pioneer. If you are an audiophile and this aspect is a major factor in your decision on which vehicle to get, take a reference CD and try the different vehicles. There is no doubt that the ELS is quite good and has been getting great reviews....

 

I had the ELS system in my former TL.
I have the BOSE system in my current RL.
Now enjoying the ELS in an RDX loaner for the weekend.

I like them all. But they do have different attributes that audiophiles will debate and argue until the end of time.

My observations:

ELS was best in the TL. I would assume the more initmate cabin of the TL brings better focus of sound.

ELS in the RDX carries well over the larger cabin real estate and has deeper bass to overcome some wind noise inherent to the taller vehicle profile. But at lower volumes the higher tone musical details do not carry as well as the BOSE.

BOSE in the RL sounds more sophisticated at soft and medium volume. The surround sound is more realistic than the ELS (IMHO). But the BOSE does not carry through in higher volumes as does the ELS. If you like blasting music the ELS performs better.

To project high quality audio in a larger cabin as the RDX (and MDX) I think the ELS is the best fit.

 

Does anybody know where you can buy DVD-Audio disks and if you can burn mp3s onto it?

 

You can find them on Amazon and Ebay. As far as I know, there wouldn't be much point of converting mp3 into dvdaudio. You lose quality when an audio file is compressed into mp3.

The best DVD-Audio disk I have ever heard is Amon Tobin's Splinter Cell soundtrack. If you enjoy electronic music check it out.

 

So then anything you might have purchased through Napster or iTunes you can't listen to in DVD-Audio disc quality? That stinks.

 

Hi, Smarty. In June we also were finding some new DVD-Audio disc titles on the Best Buy website (but not in their stores).

Watch out on Amazon's listings to make sure you search for "DVD-A" format discs, and confirm that the description for any item you might like states that it is actually in the DVD-A format; they sell a few other "surround sound" disc formats that show up in "DVD-A" search results, but won't work in the ELS system (I found out the hard way).

Also be aware that most of the "good" DVD-A titles were issued several years ago and are now out-of-print, and some of those are listed on Amazon but are actually being sold through Amazon by 3rd party vendors at pretty exorbitant prices.

 

Let me put ELS sound system in the Acura compare to what I had before "Venza 13 speaker JBL"... day and night. The Acura only has 10 speakers vs 13 speakers of the Venza but the Acura sounds so much better and more precise than the Venza. Not sure why 13 speakers does not sound better but that is my experience (I am playing the same song by the way to compare the sound.)

 

The number of speakers is not an indication that a sound system will automatically sound better.
There is a lot more that goes in to auto speaker systems to get a high quality sound besides just adding a high number of speakers. 10 could sound better than 16 or whatever.

Acura hired music producer Elliot Scheiner about 12 years ago to design a sound system for Acuras. Thus the name "ELS" system. Just listening to the "demo CD/DVD" will tell you a lot about the Acura system.

Acura's system is pretty good. Are there better factory systems...I'm sure. But, the ELS does a great job...especially if your ears are not attached to the head of a concert musician! LOL!

IF you find a DVD-A (Audio only DVD) which has the 5.1 surround sound and play it in the ELS system...then, WOW, it sounds great. There are other threads dedicated to this subject.
These DVD's are hard to find...selection sucks....and can be very expensive. I have a couple I found. One is the Beatles "Love Album." You've never heard their songs like this DVD-A!! Fairly reasonable cost on Amazon.
It also comes with a "standard re-mastered CD" that also sounds amazing.

Fine tuning the audio settings is also a must and it always depends on whose ears are doing the listening. I think Weather wrote a piece about tuning the "center" speaker correctly. I have played with that also.

 

I'd say the ELS is good, but not great. I'm not much of an audiophile, but is is OK for my needs. I'd like to hear a bit more base and thump from the subwoofer.

 

ELS pays off when using DVD-A's and the ANC feature.