DealsAllTheWay

I am just wondering what your opinion is on Acura. Whenever I read reports on luxury car makers about their sales, they always mention: BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi. Sometimes they will mention Cadillac..but never Acura or Infiniti

why is that?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

because, Acura doesnt know what they are.

they were an entry level luxury brand that filled a niche.
however, in recent years, they have been confused.

p.s. this topic has been beaten to death.

DealsAllTheWay

just read this on CNBC...no mention of acura

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101817673?trk...tack:topnews:2

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

who cares.

ceb

It is all relative. In Germany, smaller BMW's and Audi's are considered no different than a Chevy, Honda or a Toyota here. Anything like a 5 series or above (or an A6) is considered an "executive" car and the E, 5, A6, Accord and so forth are all lumped in that category. Very few cars of this size are sold to individuals (as new cars). The S, 7, A8, XJ and Phaeton are all in the "upper management" class and are almost never sold to individuals.

I bought my Jaguar at a dealer in Hockenheim (right on the ring - great test drive) and, although the dealership had been there for 20 years, I was the first private party to buy a current model year car from him. Mine was a two month old XJ12HE that had just gotten a new engine at 1500km.

In June 2014, Germany registered about 277,000 new cars. Of those, 90 were Lexus ( <.1%), Honda 1228 (.4%), Nissan and Toyota about 6000 each (2%), Ford, Opel and Audi at 8%, BMW and Mercedes at 8.2 and 8.3% and VW at 20%. Infiniti didn't even make the list and Porsche outsold the combined sales of Honda, Lexus, Lancia and Chevy.

So, is Acura in the same "luxury" league as Lexus, MB and BMW? Probably not, but it is the upscale version of one of the most reliable cars on the road. Who can argue with that?
)

KeithL

Luxury is in the eye of the beholder to some extent. Acura is more a luxury brand than GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. They offer many of the things most people equate to luxury cars, the problem has been consumer (and to a large part the press) perception. It is no secret Acura has made several marketing blunders over the years, the most important have been no real halo or top model car that was capable of competing.The next were serious design mis-steps, the largest to me was the beak. Infiniti has at least had a vision recently and a plan they are trying to execute, they are also communicating that slowly. Acura has done nothing to show they have a vision or any plan other than to market some value luxury cars. The problem with that, is the Koreans are right there to eat their lunch now.

We can all argue the merits of RWD, but from a marketing perspective the lack of a RWD or real full time AWD (RWD biased) platform will always prevent them from being considered seriously. Hyundai/Kia understood this and thus the Genesis, Equus and K900 started with RWD at the expense of northern climate sales to make sure they sent the right message.

The question becomes, is Acura a luxury brand to you? There are plenty of people, myself included, they say yes as they check all the right boxes for me. Many average people also recognize Acura as a luxury brand, of course they would not compare them with MB, BMW, etc. but they also realize they are more than Ford, GM, etc.

DealsAllTheWay

and that beak isn't fully gone on the new TLX...

Ken1997TL

I'd call them a 'Premium' brand that offers a lot of comforts and technology for a good price.

Luxury? Hardly. I'd say the closest vs. the luxury competition they ever got was in the 90's with the Legend.

kareshi

luxury is just a marketing term. Acura is not up to par when you compare with other manufacturers. you only care if you live a luxury lifestyle.

mrgold35

I kinda agree - marketing. Luxury should be something that is expensive, great comfort, wealth, ease, limited availability, 100% not necessary, and can sometimes serve no purpose. Items like BSI, LKAS, CMBS, ACC, leather seats, Navi system, etc.. are just technology features that can assist in everyday living and it serves a purpose. Look at the option lists for Porsche vehicles to get a taste of luxury items that serve no purpose but are rare and expensive. I think very few items we see fall into the true "Luxury" category unless we have a few more zeros on our paychecks.

KeithL

I'm the first to ding Acura where they have made mistakes, but to say they do not compare is rather harsh. I'm sure if you get a lost of what a person defines as luxury and compare it to other makes you would be surprised as to how Acura compares. I just think some people have a narrow definition of luxury and a status badge influences that sometimes. If you take the badges and such away and mark the list I think they compare nicely, it is in execution and styling that they usually fall short.

NBP04TL4ME

As others have said - "Luxury" is a relative term. My family have been long time (30+ years) Honda/Acura owners. I guess it would be nice to be included / compared to the other marques, but it's not important or a priority for us. I definitely agree with Ken1997TL in that Acura is a 'Premium' brand that offers a lot of comforts and technology for a good price. I would add Acura is an excellent value that brings very high reliability and maybe perhaps a "hidden gem" or "best kept secret?"
I also like the idea (and maybe this is backward thinking) that Acuras aren't seemingly on every single corner. There is a sort of exclusivity that comes from driving my TL (I've owned two) I don't believe you would get from driving a 3 series BMW.

HotRodW

I have to disagree. The biggest problem with Acura is content, or rather lack of it. Nowhere is that more obvious than the RDX. Even with the Tech package, the RDX lacks features available on crossovers like the Escape, Forester, Santa Fe Sport, CX-5, etc. If Acura wants to be taken seriously as a luxury brand, it has to address the options sheet ASAP. If the mid-cycle refresh isn't substantial, competitors like the MKC and NX (offensive grille and all) will put a serious dent in RDX sales.

KeithL

You are correct about the RDX, but Acura made a decision to base the 2G RDX on the old head unit, probably due to economy and the tsunami. I also think their market for the RDX was a pure value play and they are selling like crazy. They should have had an Advance model and hopefully will correct some of it at MMC. The RLX and TLX hold their own content wise, although things like HUD and around view monitors are becoming the norm as options in the RLX class. Acura needs to get out in front instead of playing catchup. Minor tweaks at MMC and waiting for FMC, essentially 5 years to catch up and then be in the same position with next model, trying to catch up with again.

KeithL

One thing I liked about Infiniti and now Audi is every model year there are minor improvements in content. I think this is important for Audi where their model cycles can be 7 years. Acura needs to get out of the old way of thinking.

5 Acuras

iTrader: (1)

My friends who want to borrow money from me always point out that I drive a "Luxury" car, so it must be one.

ottoman101

In the last decade it seemed like Acura was trying to be a luxury-sport hybrid brand similar to BMW and Audi. But with these recent models it's like they are having an identity crisis. The cars are leaning towards plain luxury, but a very watered down luxury. It almost doesn't qualify.

The cars look great though.

Comfy

In addition some of the Acura badged cars are sold in Europe and other markets as Honda (with just the front grill changed of course). Therefore it creates even less distinction between Honda and Acura. Anyway I'm not the one who's complaining.

KeithL

This is true, Infiniti has same issue with Skyline, but plans on addressing that as they make the Infiniti name a global brand. Acura just needs to decide what it want to be and execute.

leftync

I like the word "premium" better than "luxury." My MDX is the third upscale brand vehicle I've owned (all purchased used) behind an Infiniti and another Acura. What I like most is that the quality of the build and materials last a long time. My Acura Legend would still be on the road if my son hadn't totaled it, and I'm hoping to keep my '96 J30 going to 300K.

ceb

Right. The TSX is the Honda Accord in Europe and the RL is the Honda Legend

Infiniti has already broken into Europe as a separate brand. Oddly enough, they sell the new Q50, then the Q60coupe and convertible (The G37 in the US) and the Q70 (the old M) along with the QX50 (EX) and QX70 (FX). They are not big sellers with a very slim distribution network (two in Germany, three in Italy, 1 in Switzerland, Austria and Hungary) with the only real network in the UK with more than a handful of dealers.

YeuEmMaiMai

IMHO they started out as a real contender, but their refusal to get a V8 and keep up in the quality department has relegated them to entry level

DealsAllTheWay

I think if Acura added standard all around backup cameras, HD radio, blind spot indicator, google based navigation, standard bixenon lights, rear vents (rdx), some cool carbon fiber looking interiors, etc.

now we're talking luxury

YeuEmMaiMai

lol at carbon fiber....

ceb

So in other words, kind of like the MDX or the TLX. Bixenon is so old school now and carbon fiber isn't a traditional hallmark of luxury.

No brand has all the features on all the cars. Up until a few years ago, Mercedes (up to the E) and BMW (including the 5) had standard manual roll up windows for the rear doors and no air conditioning when you bought a car in Germany.

Google maps aren't feasible because a car manufacturer cannot expect you to pay for monthly recurring service nor can they expect that everyone would have a phone. If so, what phone?

ceb

More proof that luxury is in the eye of the beholder.

Me? I've had "luxury" cars. The Mercedes Adenauer 300, the 300SEL 6.3, the 600 and the Jaguar XJ12HE VdP were THE luxury cars of the time. Many of you would consider my previous BMW 335 a "luxury" car.

I made the decision to go with an Acura because it had many of the features of the "luxury" cars yet lacked one hallmark of most high end cars - poor reliability and I was tired of owning a "nice" car that spent more time in the shop than it did in my garage.

colt427

Dropped a few years ago to Tier 2 luxury with Lincoln,Buick,Volvo.

NBP04TL4ME

Exactly and very, very true


Interested to see where you got this from. Not saying what you are quoting is wrong but I don't see Acura in the same league as any of these Marques.

NBP04TL4ME

PS - Mods should probably move this out of the RDX forum................

DealsAllTheWay

ewww..those cars so fugly. Some of the Volvos..okay but buick and lincoln..omg

YeuEmMaiMai

things that say luxury

leather seats
Nice powerful yet quiet engine
comfortable ride
plenty of room in front and back
large trunk (or boot)
Premium materials
alloy wheels
Tinted windows
ample interior lighting
Classy interior that isn't screaming BLING BLING
Doors that close with a solid thud

ceb

There we go with "eye of the beholder again"

I'm just picking on you to make a point that everybody's definition of "luxury" is different.

I happen to agree with you with the exception of the tint. Also, hushed and inconspicuous interior lighting (think warm glow) is probably more "luxury" than "ample" lighting

kirkland715

lux·u·ry

noun \ˈlək-sh(ə-)rē, -zh(ə-)rē\ : a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth
: something that is expensive and not necessary
: something that is helpful or welcome and that is not usually or always available




as most people here have said, something that is a luxury to me, may or may not be one to you. If we are talking about the public perception of Acura then No, by and large i would say that most people view it as Honda. The two divisions are much more alike then say Toyota and Lexus. Where Lexus really makes an effort to distinguish itself from toyota, in design,marketing,luxury feel and the pocketbook.
i feel like Nissan and infiniti are much more like Honda and Acura, and just like Acura, Infiniti struggles to really portray a luxury brand.
but i also don't think Acura cares. People say they have an identity crisis but i think they like being in the middle. I think they know that in order to be considered a "Luxury" brand they would need to make certain features standard/offer more features in packages/ and increase the premium materials used. However all of that means the starting prices would go up at least 5K and they would be right there with the Brands the public already thinks of as "luxury" Mercedes/Bmw/ and Lexus. I think they like being right below that. They feel that is there place in the market.
The consumer is the one with the identity crisis.. Not Acura...
just my two cents. : /

KeithL

I know many of us here say this, but I can' tell you how many people I have talked to over the years that have no clue or mix up which of the Asian luxury names are from which company. I think more people than we think really do not know, care or confuse an Acura as a Honda.

NBP04TL4ME

Agree with you Keith. I believe the majority of the public look at the Marques and don't know or associate the pairings as the same. We need to remember those of us on these enthusiast boards are typically very knowledgeable and are only a very small minority.

WheelMcCoy

I recall at one point, Acura did attempt to chase BMW in terms of marquee value. It was more difficult than they thought, and Acura now seems satisfied to be premium / smart / value luxury.

I do find Acura service a notch above Honda/Toyota/Mazda service. Waiting rooms are generally cleaner and coffee is usually better. Acura also washes your car when they're done, although I understand enthusiasts prefer to skip the car wash and do it themselves (to avoid swirl marks, etc).

What Acura needs to defend against now is Mercedes and Audi. Those makers introduced entry level value luxury cars (CLA 250, Audi A3) and I think it's easier for established marquee luxury brands to come "down" than it is for Acura to go "up".

wildeklave

Acura is a mid luxury brand similar to Infiniti or Buick. A mid-luxury brand has many of the features and services of the luxury brands. They also offer more powerful engines than the main stream brands but they are in between where they may have an entry level vehicle that is in the main stream price range, may be a laggard with state of the art technology, may not have the true luxury power engines, or may not have the higher priced vehicles. Acura has the SH AWD models but nothing similar to the BMW M sport, Mercedes AMG, or Audi I Sport trims.

Chrysler was a mid-luxury brand but they seemed to have decided to become a main market manufacturer now. Kia and Hyundai should form a luxury brand for their K900, Genesis, and Equiis vehicles since they are mainstream names.

I see luxury as:
- loaner cars for service
- state of the art tech and options
- higher level of service (incl warranty)
- more powerful and efficient engines
- statement badge (people desire the specific manufacturer badge as a sign you have arrived)
- starting price for most inexpensive vehicle over 30k
- highest priced vehicle over 75k
- offer 300hp + engines

Economy main stream includes:
- Fiat
- Mini
- Smart
- Mazda
- Mitsubishi
- Scion
- Suzuki

Main market vehicles include:
- Honda
- Toyota
- Nissan
- Chevy
- Dodge (has become more of a muscle car brand to not compete with Chrysler)
- Ford
- Subaru
- Hyundai
- Kia
- Subaru
- VW
- Jeep (Chrysler's SUV division)
- GMC (specialty light truck division)
- RAM (specialty light truck division)
- etc....

Mid luxury includes
- Acura
- Buick
- Inifiniti
- Mercury was in this level before the brand was terminated
- Pontiac was at the lower part of this level before that brand was terminated
- Oldsmobile was in this level before the brand was terminated at a level below Buick

Luxury includes
- Mercedes
- Audi
- BMW
- Lexus
- Lincoln
- Cadillac
- Jaguar
- Land Rover
- Volvo

Super luxury includes
- Porsche
- Aston Martin
- Maserati
- Alfa Romeo
- Lambhorgini
- Mclaren
- Rolls Royce

ceb

Eye of the beholder

mrgold35

I think we are thinking too small in our own boxes to determine what the definition of Luxury means to us. I think my MDX is luxury compared to a Pilot; but, the MDX is not the same level as MB G-class or Range Rover. Kinda like viewing luxury as buying the most expensive meal at Red Lobster (Caddy, Jag, Infiniti, etc..) compared to having a personal chef at your 4th home in Rome (Mclaren, Bugatti, Lambo, Ferrari, etc..). We are all fighting about the menu at Red Lobster.

I still think price, usefulness, availability, and exclusivity still makes anything luxurious from a rare bottle of wine to a 1969 ZL1 Camaro.

wildeklave

Mr Gold

Good analogy with the food service industry

The Econo companies are your fast food or inexpensive buffet places.

The main stream places are your chains like Fridays, Applebees, or Outback.

The mid luxury can be like a Bonefish grill, nicer local restaurant, or basic steak house that is pricier than a Fridays type of chain.

The luxury lines are more of the ala carte restaurants.

The super luxuries can be the high end ala cartes (ie. 4 seasons) or work its way up to a private chef.