ntwillie1

Hey guys. Just wanted to warn everyone to be extra careful when dealing with the tire mounting places. About 3 weeks back i replaced the OEM Michelin tires on my 08 MDX with Bridgestone HL/400 Duelers. I'm happy withe the tires so far but thats another story.

Anyway, we've been having quite a winter here in the north east. Since yesterday was our first nice 60 degree day i figured i'd give the car a detail. Oh boy, as i washed down my first rim i see a perfectly circular scratch all around the rim. WTF i thought, how did that happen. I do the second rim, same thing, third, ditto, fourth rim - ditto. It hits me that the Firestone tech must have scratched them when he put them on the hunter machine.

So i went to the Firestone location today and they denied that their $10,000 machine could have done that. I told them my $45,000 machine is telling me otherwise. So the store manager basically takes 2 of his techs and goes outside to see the damage and immediately tells me that the scratches are at least a year old. He's practically calling me a liar at this point. So we get into it and he says i'll prove it to you, i'll take one of your tires off and show you. So I let him do just that. So they do so and the machine did not put any additional scratches, however, where the lip of the Hunter machine lines up with my rim is the exact same spot where all 4 of my rims are damaged. I mean complete full circules of damage. Precision and machine made. The guy still tells me its impossible. I said maybe there was debree, or a shard, or something on the machine and the tech didn't see it. Nope, nothing. So at this point, they are not owning up to it.

I was willing to let them try and pay for the repair but being that the don't want to acknowldege the damage I will really become a nuissance to them. I have already contacted the Firestone regional manager but the guy is away on vacation until 2 mondays from now. I am also contacting the Firestone Home office first thing on Monday morning and I have contacted Hunter to provide me a written statement saying that it is mechanically impossible for their machine to cause damage to my rim. I have read many stories on line tonight about people mentioning how the Hunter system has caused their rims damage. If the firestone home office doesn't do something about it I will persue legal action as it won't cost me much because my wife is an attorney and just loves to go after d-bags like these guys. Before I even involve her though I will contact the BBB as well.

I would like to mention that about an hour after getting home today they did call to say that in order to keep me as a customer they are willing to pay for half the cost of whatever it takes to refinish my wheels. Ok, so you will pay $400 and I will pay $400? I dont' think so.

What sucks about this the most is that I went to firestone because they were selling me the tires for $1000 while the dealer wanted $1400. In the end, if I roll over and give in and let them get away with it it will cost me $800 to fix the tires and the $400 i was so happy to save goes right out the window. Not to mention the time and aggrevation.

Anyway, I'll keep updating this post to let you all know how Firestone's home office responds and if they co-operate.

DaChef320

iTrader: (1)

Smh your like a customer that i had same crap calling BBB and Consumer Affair your gonna lose its people like you that drives everyone nuts

Type34

Wow, that sucks man. This reminds me when installers get careless with the impact gun and mark up your rims.

These guys will never admit to culpability because it's very difficult for you to prove they did the damage (and frankly it had been almost a month, so there was doubt understandably on their end).

The Regional Manager is not on vacation, they always say that to 1) gather the facts and 2) hope this goes away.

If you truly feel you were wrong and it's worth your and your wife's time, then your best course of action is to continually go up the chain. I'd probably drop the litigious angle and go more for "I need Firestone to make this right" stance. At some level, a director/executive is going to call the Regional Manager (or Store Manager) and direct them to "take care of this". These guys don't want these kinds of problems reaching them.

I say this with an asterick* in that I believe too many consumers stomp their feet for attention. But your situation, as written, sounds like you need legitimate resolution. Good luck man and keep us updated.

ntwillie1

Thanks guys.

Diz - I'm sure its annoying to people like you when people like me call BBB but by doing that we are helping others out so that they may not have the same grievances. Whats the point of the BBB if a customer can't file a complain when they feel they've been wronged.

Type34 - you are right. I was probably just heated earlier. I'll try to address this in a nicer way with corporate and not throw any legal threats their way. I know it was 3 weeks since they did the work but if you'd seen my car you'd swear it was a brown or gray car when its actually aspen white - thats how dirty it was. And with freezing temps and crazy snow storms there was no way for me to have kept the car clean enough to have seen it. Plus, if you think about it, anytime I go to my dealership they always do a walk around to make sure no damage exists on the car. In retrospect I wish that Firestone had done the same thing. At least to the wheels if nothing else. I'm probably not the first guy and I'm sure I won't be the last guy that something like this happens to.

I'm not trying to give them a bad name. They did the wheels on my benz twice and I didn't have an issue. All i want is for them to own up to this and fix the problem.

SlimTL

Never been a big fan of Firestone after they ruined my Honda Accord transmission back in 05.

And in 08, they stripped my tuner wheel locks on my wife's TSX, and told me that they needed replacing anyway so I had to buy new ones if I wanted to take the car home.

Haven't been back since!

Hodog16

The first sentence out of my mouth would have been, "My wife is a lawyer."

I had the exact same issue with an Acura dealer here when I switched from tech to sport rims back in 2008. On 2 rims there was a perfect circular scratch and on a 3rd it was only a couple of inches. The 4th rim was fine.

When I noticed it, I was already home, so I went back the next day to bring it up to them. The service manager denied the fact that they could have caused the damage, but the assistant manager told me that there's no way it could have been anything but their machine. He got their "rim guy" to come out and try to fix it. He used paint and sealant but could ever make the rims perfect, even after 2-3 tries.

I was going to sell the tech rims anyway, but instead of being able to sell perfect condition rims (they had less than 1,000 miles on them) for $500+, I had to sell it for much less because of the damage.

Needless to say I have been going to the other dealer in town now for service.

I'll need to buy new tires sometime within the year and am worried about it happening to my sport rims. I've heard of "touchless" tire machines, anybody have any experience with those?

nj2pa2nc

sorry to hear of your problems and hope everything works out-next time do an inspection-I was in NJ from 11/17-2/6 so I got to witness the weekly snowstorms-I did take my tsx to the carwash alot to try to keep the salt from staying on and especially getting the undercarriage washed off.

ntwillie1

Thanks guys. I'm calling Firestone corporate first thing in the AM.

I never take my cars to the car wash cause they do a bad job and leave swirl marks. I rather let it stay dirty a few weeks at a time and clean it myself. As long as its over 32 degrees out I will wash my car. We just had a really long string of bad weather so I hadn't had time to wash it. The reason I even decided to get tires aside from having 57k on my old ones was that my car had almost no traction the past few storms so I was worried about my wife getting stuck somewhere. Anyway, I'll keep fighting with these guys to see what I can get for my damage and troubles.

08A-SPEC

iTrader: (3)

Had the same thing happen but at a Walmart. They damaged the heck out of my wheels and just gave me a 800 number to call their corporate insurance line. They couldnt find a replacement for the wheels since they were not being imported into the US so they just cut me a check for $5K. That was the total cost if they were to buy them from the manufacturer in Italy and have them shipped to the US. Im surprised bigger chains like Firestone dont just take the heat and admit to their mistakes.

NTB knicked one of my Type-S wheels last fall. They said the knick was in the wheel when I brought it to them. The wheels all just came out of the plastic wrapping from the dealer brand new. I checked them all out and the knick was clearly from the tool the guy was using to mount the tire slipping out of place. They denied it and I got no where with them.

mitchigan

This is why you INSIST on watching them do the work... sometimes they refuse to let me go out into the garage, but I go anyways when they are not watching, and usually they do not care when they see me do it. I believe they may just be instructed to say so and not really enforce it. Just make sure you always bring a camera, where shoes, and have safety glasses.

nj2pa2nc

I do not mind the dirt but the salt is another story. I also prefer handwashing it but since I do alot of traveling I can not always do that. I wish you luck in your fight.

ntwillie1

So here's an encouraging update. I called Firestone Corporate and they were very nice and understanding of my situation. They opened up a case for me and assigned it to claims. They said within 2 days I should hear back from an adjuster and they will come out and assess the damage. Then we'll take it from there. They were much more professional than the store manager at the location was. Anyway, i'll keep updating to let you know if Firestone does the right thing. Thanks everyone for your comments.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

It could just be that one shop you went to, I have been going to the firestone tireshop right down the street from my house for 10 years now, they do my alignments for free ( I paid for the lifetime alignment 129.99 for howeverlong I own the car.), and always give me a discount if I buy something from them, and they have not even scratched my aspec wheels that I put on my CL or my mom's MDX.

I just think its the shop you went to.

ntwillie1

You're probably right. I've never really heard bad things about firestone before. Either way, this is the last time I'll take my car anywhere but the dealer, I don't care if its more expensive, at least i'll avoid this hassle and aggrevation.

ntwillie1

So an adjuster from Firestone called me last week and said that i had two options:
1. Take the $400 the shop offered and be done with it.
or
2. They can send out an "independent" inspector to review the damage on my vehicle. He said if the inspector says he believes it was caused by the hunter machine that they will pay for the damage. If the inspector says no way it happened, he says thats the end of it and I get nothing.

I believe the adjuster was expecting me to say ok, give me the $400. Instead I said send your inspector over, i'll meet him at the shop, and we'll see what he thinks. I mean if i was after a few easy bucks they know I would have taken the money. But I'm not after the money, i'm after getting my rims properly repaired and this is also about principle.

Anyway, the inspector is meeting me at the firestone shop tomorrow morning between 7am and 12pm. They wanted me to leave my car there but that wasn't happening, I said have him call me 10 min before he shows up and i'll meet him there. I'm also taking my camera to take pictures of exactly where the hunter machine lines up and so fourth.

By the way, i highly doubt this inspector is a true independent party so i'm not confident he will give a ruling in my favor. Lets see what he says tomorrow and then I'll figure out how to proceed.

wassystyle

Good luck........!

mdx_1976

Good luck and keep us posted!

Type34

This is a realistic expectation. Good luck and keep us updated...

ntwillie1

So here's my latest update. I met up with the inspector yesterday. He was supposed to be there sometime between 7am and 12pm. He showed up at 4:30PM. Luckily he called me when he was on his way. He said Firestone never told him to be there in the AM. I don't doube that.

Anyway, the guy seemed pretty fair. Anyway, they put one of my wheels on there hunter machine and saw them go through the process. The guy doing it used this steel bar to remove the tire from the rim and used the wrong side and almost caused more damage to my wheel. there was steel grinding on steel as the machine spun the rim. I stopped him immediately and pointed it out to the inspector. he acknowledged that the tech was doing it wrong. It was great cause the service manager was watching it the whole time. Anyway, i also pointed out how the damage to my wheel lined up exactly with the hunter machine and then pointed out to them how the machine was not balanced properly. by this i mean tha one side of the hard rubber/plastic part that isnt' supposed to touch the rim actually does and how if debree was on it it could cause damage.

Anyway, long story short, the inspector took a bunch of photos and documented the process and then said to me that he would send to the firestone adjuster for a decision. i said "i thought you made the final decision?". He said no, they do. They just send me out for photos and they shouldn't have said that. So that was lie number 2 of the day for firestone.

Anyway, Firestone called me today and said they would be reviewing the inspectors report today and that i should provide them with an estimate via fax of what it would cost to have my wheels refinished. So I'm going to do that this week and then hopefully tomorrow see what their decision is. Hopefully they do the right thing and I don't have to continue fighting with them. I'll update again tomorrow. later.

Hodog16

The scratches occur when the machine has to take the tires off the rim to install new ones, not when alignments are done where the rim and tires are never separated.

ntwillie1: Read my previous post, you can't always trust the dealer, but at least you know to be more aware in the future.

Type34

Sounds somewhat positive ntwillie...at least the dimwit working the machine screwed up again...sucks for all the customers he's been working on.

I usually go to a place that does it old school by hand...I couldn't picture the Hunter tire changer that you were referring to...so I looked it up...

So anyone else unfamiliar with this aparatus, here's the culprit:

ntwillie1

Type34, thats the very one that did the damage to my wheels. I almost fell off my chair when i saw that nasty machine staring at me from my computer screen. I better check my screen for scratches now .

But in all seriousness, i'm sure it was more operator error than it was machine error. People that work at those kinds of places just don't care.

I will say, in defense of dealerships, that I think they are more standup. Back in November I took my 350z for basic service, and the kid working on my car curbed a rim when pulling into the bay. It somehow clipped the arm of the lift and put a good size gash in it. So the manager came out to give me the bad news and he said they would pay for the repair. I said no way, these are 19" aftermarket wheels, you're buying me a new one. Get me the dealership manager ASAP. So they did and when the guy showed up a little while later he said "we're sorry and from the looks of it we can't repair it so just buy a new one and send me the invoice". About 1 week later my RIM showed up, they cut me the check, and they said I could have it mounted and balanced anywhere I wanted and they would pay for it but I let them do it and they put there best guy on the job. I think they have more to lose then a place like firestone plus the techs at dealerships I think are a bit more career oriented then places like Firestone and lubejob or whatever they call em.

Anyway, I'm now awaiting a quote from my dealership so i can forward along to Firestone. At this point they haven't said that they are fixing it but I'm hoping they do. I'll keep updating. Thanks for following.

Type34

Thanks ntwillie for the update. Any chance you can throw up some wheel pics so we can see what the damage is?

03Type--S

iTrader: (1)

You would think Firestone would have the best of the best working the machine for the guy watching lol...all looking to be in OP's favor...looking forwared to the verdict

mdx_1976

Any updates?

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

i have learned to hate places like this...firestones/NTBs/merchant's...essentially the big box shops. i had damage to my aftermarket rims on my TL a couple of yrs ago at merchant's (they had broken several center cap screws and then unable to repair). the manager didn't own up. i complained to corporate. spoke with the regional manager, then got sent over to NTB to get the "damage" resolved. the manager at that shop couldn't do the repair, so i got a whole new set of enkei rims to replace the damaged rims (the new rims were much nicer than my originals-enkei no longer made them, so i ended up with a comparable set which turns out to be a significant upgrade). so keep on fighting.

i guess the one lesson to take from this is to take your car to a shop CLEAN. even at the dealer i take my car to them freshly washed and clean for service. at least then i will know whether any cosmetic damage has been done to my car before i leave.

good luck. keep fighting for a new set of rims, its a pain, but you've been wronged by incompetancy.

benlee78

Any updates?

ntwillie1

Sorry guys, been busy with work. Yes, I have an update.

The clown adjustor ignored my calls for about 6 days straight. So I had my wife (attorney) write them a nice letter. He called me back within the hour and then informed me he couldn't deal with me any longer since I had attained legal representation. So whatever, she's been dealing with him since. Today he informed us that they can't pay to replace them but are willing to repair them. However, since the rims are machined and have to be sent out he said I will have to take my car to Firestone so they can take the tires off the rims and then they will have the Rim Repair shop pick them up. They will also provide a loaner for the duration. The only problem with that is that i'd have to leave my truck at the firestone on a lift for 4 days while they get repaired. There is no way i'm doing that, so she told them no deal. We are willing to let the dealer attempt a repair and only the dealer, and if we aren't satisfied with the repair we want to replace them. So he said he had to clear it with his management so thats where we stand.

If the dealer can fix them i'm fine with it. My wife already curbed one and i had them refinish it last year and they did a very nice job with it. I'm not trying to give Firestone a hard time, I just want them to make things right since they did cause the damage and the independent inspector they sent told them that it was likely their machine that caused the damage. They've already cost me in time way more than the $400 I saved on the tires by not going to the dealer. I've learned my lesson and this is the last time i deal with anyone but the dealer. It sucks for independent owned shops that actually do care for their customers but places and experiences like this make me never want to deal with them again. Not only that but I will never buy another Bridgestone, Firestone or any other product made under that company's umbrella.

My Acura dealer has never once given me a problem with anything. They've even done out of warranty work for me on my other Acura's as a courtesy. I'll deal with them exclusively going forward. lesson learned and i'll post an update when the adjuster gets back to me.

Type34

Thanks ntwillie for the update. I agree with you not leaving your car at the shop for 4+ days (let's be honest, it would be much longer). I'm sure it's frustrating that they admit culpability, but will only fix it on their terms. No thanks.

I hear ya on the dealer. Although they charge more, sometimes the service & piece of mind is worth it. I'm a DIYer for a chunk of my service, but I usually go to the dealer for the remainder (often with a coupon in hand).

Depending on the dealership, they're sometimes willing to work with you on tire pricing. I was due for two front replacements and when the service advisor told me the price, I had to pick up my jaw from the ground. He said he could work with me and while I eventually went elsewhere, I should have at least engaged him on how competitive they'd be...

ntwillie1

So just wanted to let everyone know that I came to an agreement with firestone. They sent me a check for $1200 so i could have them refinished. I accepted their offer just to get it over with and the check arrived last week. It'll cost me 200 per rim at my dealer to get them fixed and they'll give me a nice mdx loaner for the 3 or 4 days they would need to have my car. Just wanted to let everyone know what the conclusion was to my ordeal. Thanks.

Wil

dominik331

One more for the good guys!

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

glad to hear firestone finally owned up, and that your dealer is going to take care of you.

Type34

Nice job Wil. Congrats on the resolution and thanks for sharing your experience.

billman730

My garage guy changes all kinds of custom wheels with an old manual changer and a long bar. He drapes a bunch of those orange hand towels on the rim to prevent scratches.

The best machine in the hands of a poorly trained mechanic who may not have a good attitude about working in general is all it takes to mess you up. I don't blame the machine I blame the person that did the work.

VQPower37

great ... happy everything worked out for you

mdxsilversurfer

You ordeal brought me nasty flashbacks to me when my custom rims got damaged by firestone. Glad it worked out for you and I am sure that the 1200 wasn't enough to cover your fustrations and stress. Glad it all worked out for you