AbMagFab

If they replaced the computer, that probably means the new PCM. If they just rebuilt the tranny (what they did my first time), they probably didn't.

Bulldog01

Tranny #3 has shit the bed. It had the new PCM, and it lasted the longest of the three...44k. The original tranny died at 38k, and #2 (no PCM change) was replaced at 27k. Car has 109k, and will be getting its 4th tranny next week.

Draiden

Wytman,

Let me know if you have any luck with that letter. My 2nd tranny (2001 CL-S) just blew at 101,000 miles and I am fighting with them for a replacement. So far, the "best" they could (would) offer was to give me a rebuilt tranny for free but charge me for labor - $640. I told them that this was crap but have goeet no where so far.

This is not a good sign of coverage after the 100k mark...

Draiden

typeS_CLark,

Did your dealer tell you that the replaced tranny had a 36k warranty on it? Is that in writing? Mine said that there is no warranty on the replaced tranny. I am on my 3rd with 101k miles now. This is rediculous.

Anyone out there know of a definitive source to find if there should be a warranty?

Thanks,
John

allenn

The new pcm ruined my CL. It took the fun out of the car.

F900

Service called me this morining and told me along with the tranny replacement so was the PCM, this will be my 3rd PCM in less than 6months since i bought a 01 CLS.

Doc.Booty

Just had my tranny replaced and my 2-3 shifts are VERY rough, about as rough as they were a few days before mine went out.

rando1ph

02 CLs, @ 35k mi tranny went from 5 to 2 by itself. Only did it once but started acting psycho from that point forward.

To the dealer the following day, driving it, not for the faint of heart with all manner of awkward responses to the throttle. A week in the rent car, they paid for it exept the $50 insurance and gas I got to pay for. ECM not in yet, so off I go with the new tranny. Drives okay but I'm on pins and needles waiting for anything to happen. All in auto.

The following day the engine started smoking and smelled funny, drove immediately home put it up on jacks to inspect. The entire bottom of the car is wet with tranny fluid. Call the dealer for a wrecker they ask "cann't you drive it in?" Not when the dipstick shows no fluid.

Ride over in the wrecker with the car, the dealer took to it like a pit stop at a stock car race and had it "repaired" in short order and didn't top off the fluid to boot. fwiw, they didn't check their install of the replacement and left a banjo bolt loose. They did rape me for the cabin filters and install, $40 for the filters and $80 for the install, that'll be the last time for that, ever.

With 10k miles on the replacement tranny and the "new" ECM is basically okay. They downrated the shift points a tad in the ECM. It still clanks a bit the first and only the first time it shifts into 5th, it's fine once it warms up. It was a lot more starchey with the original ECM, they said I wouldn't notice.... wrong.

rando1ph

The shift points were "softened" which takes a lot of the "snap" out of the car, IMHO. I'm on my second tranny and had the rebuilt unit with the original PCM awhile. Should have refused to let them replace the PCM but they would have wrecked the warranty.

Time For Sleeep

Hey Wytman, you mentioned a $1700 estimate for the CL-S tranny? Would that basically be going from automatic to manual? (My apologies for utter lack of comprehension)

rudeboy

My Cl-s also is at 68000 and not one problem on it. Love this ride, and you can't compare it to any other car on the market. I still made an appointment with acura to check it out. This was easy and my local dealer scheduled me in right away.

NighthawkBlue

Draiden. $640 sucks I would not want to pay it. I am not pollyanning this but at least they are paying for the tranny. Besides the $640 really brings up the question tho of how long will this tranny last and will it be covered?

wytman any new news?
typeS_CLark are they still saying after 100K its all yours -no help?
[B]Bulldog01 who is paying for 4th tranny at 109K miles?[/B]

EricL,
Would it be okay to start a seperate threat on what is happening 100K+ on trannys for both perfomance and Accuras $$$ coverage (or non coverage.)
A lot of us are wondering what to do. Plus if we sell it to a private party are they screwed?

F900

The best thing to do is if you have to pay the $640, is put it on a Credit card ( AMEX) if you have one, and dispute the charges stating that you have a known defective tranny.

rootbeer

I haven't read all the messages, so this may have been covered elsewhere already. I have 48K miles on my 2001 CL-S and the tranny is doing just fine. I have the recall notice and could bring it to the dealer but with all that I am reading, is that a good idea or should I wait and keep the notice for another time, like a rainy day insurance. Or does that thing expire after so many months?

beestea

I got about 30k out of the factory transmission, got a new one installed with the PCM update, that lasted until last week (roughly another 30k).

I just got my third transmission installed. The service advisor said there were "Two" ECU's that got upgraded tthis time... one for the tranny, one for the engine. Sounds like BS to me but who knows.

I haven't confirmed it yet but the car is starting to seem a little slower now... I wasn't able to light the tires much from a stop with VSA turned off.

GINge!

I just booked my appt for the transmission recall for this monday. My trans has had no probs, though the car only has about 12,000 miles on it. I really like the passing power of my CLS and I'm hoping this change won't take that experience away. I'll report back in a week.

Bulldog01

Acura covered it. My dealer said it was not an issue about which I had to worry.

allenn

After the rebuilt tranny and replacement PCM are installed, you can kiss the CL you know now goodbye. My Type S performs like the base CL. The get up and go has gone up and went. I would never have spent the money for the performance I have currently. Also, I do not like the hit that I will take on resell. The fact that the tranny has been replaced is logged, and any potiential buyer will have this information.

GINge!

I called Acura today... all they are doing is putting in the oil jet. I don;t understand how this can effect performance, its just adding more oil to the tranny, ist not changing any of the shift ratios or the engine computer thingees. Can someone dumb it down for me if I'm missing something?

wytman

According to what I heard - the "fix" is to first inspect the second gear pack. If any evidence of overheating is found, the entire transmission will be replaced. If no visual evidence of overheating is found, your dealer will install an additional oil jet which will keep that gear set cooler. It is my understanding that the programming for the transmission will also be altered regardless.

The cause of the recall has been excessive heat under shifting causing this particular gear pack to essentially embrittle and spall (engineering terms). What this means is that potentially, it could come apart (literally break apart) during operation. The fragments of this broken gear could possibly "jamn up the works" as it were, causing your transmission to immediately lock up. Meaning, at 80 MPH you could suddenly not have spinning front wheels. As this could theoretically cause an accident (think immediately locking your brakes), Acura is doing this safety recall.

Hope this clears things up and that my information is correct. If I didn't have the extended warranty - I would get rid of this car immediately. As is - I will only have it until somewhere between 90k and 100k. My advice - do the same.

allenn

The reduced performance has nothing to do with the Oil Jet Kit. The reprogrammed PCM is the culprit. After the PCM was replaced, the CL-S I own is nothing like it was new. I think anyone that has undergone the tranny recall and PCM replacement will vouch for the fact that their CL ain't what it used to be. The oil jet kit is nothing more than a patch by Honda to get over the 100,000 mile hump. My thought is that it probably does not work. Honda's fix adds fluid volume and slower flow to the tran fluid path. I think this will add heat, because the flow to the cooler is slower. Honda is experimenting at our expense. I think it is ironic that the new '04 TL has the problem. Seems to me that Honda has had four model years to correct the heat problem.

F900

Is the 04TL tranny problem as widespread as the CL, i was looking to purchase one, but i guess not now

EricL

Start a separate thread (hopefully no threats) if you like...


I believe that anyone with a tranny with more than 100K miles is going to have to rely on:

1. A lawyer.
2. Acura/Honda “goodwill”

The same would apply to the original – or other – user.

YMMV

EricL

The oil jet is not going to impact your performance.

It might cause other problems -- I'll let someone else draw their own conclusions on this one.

The oil-jet "band-aid" fix isn't changing:

1. The gearing.
2. PCM -- the power train controller does NOT have to be changed just because they diverted the ATF flow. You might find some dealer that wants to do a PCM change -- but...

EricL

Seems that there are mixed reports on the performance impact of the PCM change....

Some folks have gone to the track and reported that the times were just as good as pre-PCM monkey business.

You very well could have a POS replacement tranny or perhaps there are various flavors of PCM changes. Who knows for sure?

AS for the rest…

wytman

[QUOTE=NighthawkBlue]Draiden. $640 sucks I would not want to pay it. I am not pollyanning this but at least they are paying for the tranny. Besides the $640 really brings up the question tho of how long will this tranny last and will it be covered?

wytman any new news?
typeS_CLark are they still saying after 100K its all yours -no help?
[B]Bulldog01 who is paying for 4th tranny at 109K miles?[/B]

NighthawkBlue Not a peep from Acura on my request to further extend the warranty. At this point - I have given up. It's just not worth a legal fight to me - and I am still a couple years from passing through 100,000 miles anyway. I am already weighing a lot of options on my next car. Probably check out a lot of stuff at this winter's Chicago Auto Show.

It will be interesting to watch what happens over time with Honda/Acura. They are a brand built much more on a reputation for reliability than performance. I know a lot of guys get Civics and sticker charge the hell out of them - but really it is not even close to their bread and butter. I am a bit shocked the media reports on these problems are few and far between. Firestone/Ford had the rollover thing going there a few years back and it got tons of press. I guess the lack of "death and dismemberment" problems makes this one look better.

GINge!

One of the things that really sours me on this is the fact that two of the main reasons I went with Acura were reliability and the commensurate resale value. Both of these are now shot to hell, despite my car never having any of the problems, the damage to the marques reputation is done.
And again, while my CL has been trouble free, I no longer have the peace of mind I once did when I made this (for me) large purchase. No more luxury cars for me, Mazda-3 will do fine thanks.

GINge!

Thanks to all who responded.

The Ack service guy said they'll gauge the damamge based on the colour of a thingy in the trans (clutch plate?). Said there were 6 stages of burn discoloration and depending on that will either do the bypass or replace the trans there.

I specifically asked if the trans was still OK, would there would be any changes beyond the oil jet and buddy said "No".

Fortunately, I don't put many miles on my car. Its 3 years old and only has 12000 miles. Hopefully I can sell it within the next 4 years as a very low mileage car, but its been my experience than once a car its 7 years, the amount of miles doesn't play that much of a factor.

That Girl

The reduced performance has nothing to do with the Oil Jet Kit. The reprogrammed PCM is the culprit. After the PCM was replaced, the CL-S I own is nothing like it was new. I think anyone that has undergone the tranny recall and PCM replacement will vouch for the fact that their CL ain't what it used to be. The oil jet kit is nothing more than a patch by Honda to get over the 100,000 mile hump. My thought is that it probably does not work. Honda's fix adds fluid volume and slower flow to the tran fluid path. I think this will add heat, because the flow to the cooler is slower. Honda is experimenting at our expense. I think it is ironic that the new '04 TL has the problem. Seems to me that Honda has had four model years to correct the heat problem.
************************************************** ********************************


Allen,


I do feel as though I am a lab rat. I have only been around since my major trans problem since 03 , but I been through all the latest fix'es ect since that time. The 04 tl I got was supposed to be perfect ...problem totally solved and would not be an isue for me ...So yes ..the recall which includes my car showed me it was all a pack of lie's. I really can't beleive it ,considering the circumstances of what occured with my 03 tl.


I mean WHO Could believe they would not have fixed this over 4 years????? I've never seen such a long ongoing problem ..However I haven't needed to look into other makes model's problem....doe's anyone know of other defects that were 4 year's of same issue's?

allenn

Honda got this one wrong, and we have to pay for it. I hope there is legal action on this. May be it will get Honda's attention.

EricL

They can't inspect the clutch packs; these are comprised of clutch disks and clutch plates. Since they are located INSIDE of the gears, they can NOT be viewed without taking the transmission apart. If the dealer takes the transmission apart, Acura will NOT accept the unit for replacement.

If someone is telling you that they can look at the clutch disks, you should look for another dealer. You're getting a full ration of BS.

Are you sure you aren't talking about the second gear inspection?

If the gear is discolored, I wouldn't drive the sucker. I takes a fair amount of heat to alter the color of the gears.

You need to find a dealer that isn't full of crap. Your life is worth more than the hot air coming out of some nitwit’s mouth. (The following is for the MDX, etc, but relates to the same basic problem in regards to the second gear)

LINK: NHTSA Campaign ID: 04V176000 Component: Power Train: Automatic Transmission Manufacturer: American Honda Motor Co

IOW, discoloration == replacement. PERIOD!!!!!

aclura

They must be inspectling this gear from the oil fill hole where this oil squitter recall is installed??? Can that be done??

Dead-Fox

aclura-- check out this link- (from Maaloxmoment) I have reposted it elswhere.

http://152.122.48.12/prepos/files/A...04V176-3885.pdf It explains how they inspect the gear. (Check out the instruction (DETAILED) on how to operate the digital camera! Its a HOOT!)

aclura

dead-fox, Thanks, that has it all. I filled a complaint while I was there. Safety Recall # is 04V176000, Service Bulletin # 04-020

ohmna

Well, I get to join the 'tranny' club.

I purchased an CL 3.2 Type S 01 in August 2001 w/ appx. 25K.

Snap to Oct 02 - My tranny goes! I could have been seriously injured it went SO bad on
me. The only thing I am fortunate for is that I was in San Francisco vs. on the freeway
at the point as I lost 'everything'.

Snap to appx. 1 - 1.5 mo's ago -- my check engine, VSA, Orange exclaimation light all
come on. The car's D5/D4 & R are all blinking. My side mirrors are going up & down as if
I'm shifting in & out of park! I pull over, check the manual, turn on/off. No change -
manual says don't drive, you could die w/ Orange exclaimation mark. I don't, but before I
call tow truck I turn it off & on again - now the ! sign is off. I start driving home and take it
to Acura.

I get shit because I've done 3k oil changes & breaks elsewhere (since I like my money)
but they say they'd 'do me a favor' this once- low and behold they claim a sensor was
loose or needed replacing (I need to dig up the paperwork) and I get my car back 2 days
later with all the codes cleared.


Snap to today. I had my 60K tune up done at Japenese Beetle on Friday. Today is Monday
and guess what? My fricking transmission is going on me, AGAIN.

WTF could Acura possibly be thinking? I'm also mailing that alias listed here and I intend to
call Acura's corp. line tomorrow and ask them at what point my safety comes into play.


I was also told about some type of oil jet, I want to say, from Jap. Beetle mechanic.

Does anybody know about this part? How many different pieces are defective? What
should I be asking them to put in, brand new? Please advise.


- I don't see that oil thing for 2nd gear listed anywhere in my papers. But I do see the
words ->

'Rebuild Program. Pressure Test.' on my Oct 02 paperwork. Does this mean I have a
rebuilt tranny and Acura's just trying to skimp by on my life until either 100K hits or I die
and they don't have to worry about me anymore?


And what's the more mechincally inclined opinion on this issue? Can Acure endanger
people's lives until something happens to them? Do the new tranny's really suck? Is it
time to get this POS fixed one last time and get the bleep away from Acura FOREVER and
make sure EVERYONE I know, within my 5000+ company, family, friends, etc. and my
website KNOW what this company is doing?


I do NOT mind a defective product when a company stands behind FIXING the issue as
soon as they know about it. Seems to me Acura is simply asking for a day of reckoning in
the court room.


Sorry but this pisses me off to NO end that I've been inconvienced THREE times due to
this SAME issue in appx. 2 years. That is NOT how you make customers for life, putting a
bandaid on something that needs stitches! Aside from the inconvienence, I think it is
absolutely f'in despicable for any company to endanger the lives of their customers
with such bland ignorance, esp. after we all witnessed the Firestone/Ford horrors
first hand. Does Acura REALLY care SO little about the safety of their customers?

ohmna

Well, I get to join the 'tranny' club.

I purchased an CL 3.2 Type S 01 in August 2001 w/ appx. 25K.

Snap to Oct 02 - My tranny goes! I could have been seriously injured it went SO bad on
me. The only thing I am fortunate for is that I was in San Francisco vs. on the freeway
at the point as I lost 'everything'.

Snap to appx. 1 - 1.5 mo's ago -- my check engine, VSA, Orange exclaimation light all
come on. The car's D5/D4 & R are all blinking. My side mirrors are going up & down as if
I'm shifting in & out of park! I pull over, check the manual, turn on/off. No change -
manual says don't drive, you could die w/ Orange exclaimation mark. I don't, but before I
call tow truck I turn it off & on again - now the ! sign is off. I start driving home and take it
to Acura.

I get shit because I've done 3k oil changes & breaks elsewhere (since I like my money)
but they say they'd 'do me a favor' this once- low and behold they claim a sensor was
loose or needed replacing (I need to dig up the paperwork) and I get my car back 2 days
later with all the codes cleared.


Snap to today. I had my 60K tune up done at Japenese Beetle on Friday. Today is Monday
and guess what? My fricking transmission is going on me, AGAIN.

WTF could Acura possibly be thinking? I'm also mailing that alias listed here and I intend to
call Acura's corp. line tomorrow and ask them at what point my safety comes into play.


I was also told about some type of oil jet, I want to say, from Jap. Beetle mechanic.

Does anybody know about this part? How many different pieces are defective? What
should I be asking them to put in, brand new? Please advise.


- I don't see that oil thing for 2nd gear listed anywhere in my papers. But I do see the
words ->

'Rebuild Program. Pressure Test.' on my Oct 02 paperwork. Does this mean I have a
rebuilt tranny and Acura's just trying to skimp by on my life until either 100K hits or I die
and they don't have to worry about me anymore?


And what's the more mechincally inclined opinion on this issue? Can Acure endanger
people's lives until something happens to them? Do the new tranny's really suck? Is it
time to get this POS fixed one last time and get the bleep away from Acura FOREVER and
make sure EVERYONE I know, within my 5000+ company, family, friends, etc. and my
website KNOW what this company is doing?


I do NOT mind a defective product when a company stands behind FIXING the issue as
soon as they know about it. Seems to me Acura is simply asking for a day of reckoning in
the court room.


Sorry but this pisses me off to NO end that I've been inconvienced THREE times due to
this SAME issue in appx. 2 years. That is NOT how you make customers for life, putting a
bandaid on something that needs stitches! Aside from the inconvienence, I think it is
absolutely f'in despicable for any company to endanger the lives of their customers
with such bland ignorance, esp. after we all witnessed the Firestone/Ford horrors
first hand. Does Acura REALLY care SO little about the safety of their customers?

Arg! I just posted this with the intention of getting on this thread but upon
logging back in it redirected me...so here is a copy for this thread where it was
intended to go...

Add into my belief that they are endangering my life with this mess, my TIME.

I welcome any and all feedback - unless it's simply excuse Acura, they have a profit
margin. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ACURA WOULD DO THIS TO PEOPLE?

Not in my LIFE...til now. Disgusting.

aclura

has acura produced to worst tranny ever?

DivinDude

and they still are

ginzy

the dealer is going to replace the transmission in my 01 CLS with a rebuilt tranny. Is there any way I can get him to put in a NEW transmission? I requested a NEW transmission. He says only rebuilts are available.

rudeboy

I had my tranny replaced in my 01 CL S and they also gave me a rebuilt one. You wouldn't want a new one cuz you'll end up with the same problem. My Acura tech tells me that the rebuilt tranny's come with a bigger, stronger clutch packs in the 2nd and 3rd gear.
My tranny didn't go out, i just took it in for the routine inspection and of course my car was one of those affected. So far so good, at 69k, didn't notice any change. The Acura dealership didn't give me any gripe, and they made me a complimentary second key FREE.