Akbar

I've been having tranny slippage in my 2001 Type S for about 6 months. Nothing too serious (yet), but I mentioned it to the service manager at Acura of Concord 2 months ago for my 10k service. The Quote: "No problems found."

Slippage has continued on occasion, as some descibed on this site. Also, I have noticed much harder upshifts under hard acceleration. I like chirping the tires, but under MY control.

So, I checked out this forum, and low and behold, I am not alone.
Acura Concord service manager today. Tried to engage him in friendly conversation regarding the tranny problems posted here. He was not exaclty interested in hearing anything negative, even though I was excessively polite and friendly. I am now scheduled for a tranny fluid change next week. However, that won't solve the problem according to other posts and Mike Harvey Acura.

Called Mike Harvey Acura. Spoke to a salesman there. He stated that Acura knows of the problem. Basically stated that the transmission can't handle the increased power of the CLS, and that they are swapping older tranny's with modified ones that can handle the increased horsey's.

I bought this car for its performance, but have not pushed or driven it really hard since my purchase. (its kind of hard in a large metro area to kick out the jams and not get a ticket)

I am assuming that many of you really drive this particular model hard, unfortunately, it seems that the tranny was not designed to handle the horsepower delivered by the Type S. If I am wrong, please no flames... But I am delaying that long road trip a few months...

My solution? I am going to trade this one in on a 6 speed manual CL-S model when they are available in a few months. I prefer a manual tranny to Auto, and this is my first one. I love the car, and this is my only complaint (besides the Rims). Leasing has its advantages I guess.

Good luck to you all.

And remember, talk to a sales guy, not service. They want to sell you a new car, and will tell you things they probably should not. Service managers can get hauled into court, so they are not interested in potentially exposing themselves and their company to that kind of liability. Sales guys are a dime a dozen, and will just go to the next dealer down the road for a job.

Cheers...

2001 CL Type S
Black/grey
With Nav
No tail
Scratched Rims (they should change the design!)
Completely stock

EricL

Yes, it seems that the story about the bearings not being up to the task is getting more and more confirmation. As they destroy themselves, they dump magnetic material into the ATF. The "junk" gets loaded into the solenoids (they are magnetic) and some people have gotten a quick fix by getting the lube cleaned out (perhaps temporary, but it has worked for a while for some folks). I think they also got a bad batch of bearings that really compound the problem (since they are already too weak), so it really causes problems. Once the crud is in the shift solenoids, it jams them up and 2nd and 3rd have a clutch burn out contest... When the clutches finally go, they fry and make for some really burnt and nasty smelling and dirty looking ATF…

There is more, but....

I would say your on the right track, and I'm glad that more and more dealers are admitting that some beefing up is in order (the clean-out does help in a lot of cases -- for how long... well, who knows). I don't know that "trashing" the box, just to get a new one is the best policy (some people have mentioned that they think this technique is a good one for getting a up rated tranny -- I wouldn’t know about this...)

ssk0771

Tranny problem is not just the Type S. There are many Acura
TL with tranny problems that were not Type S.

EricL

2002 TLs, or 2001 Tls, or 2000 TLs, or 1999 TLs, ?

And what were the problems?

NateBoozer

I don't know all of the exacts on what happened to the tranny, but a friend of mine owns a '01 TL and his tranny had to be replaced.




2002 CL Type-S

LuxSport

Honda built faulty transmissions. Don't worry while you still have your warranty you are good to go, but when it runs out, trade your car in quickly!!!

This is what I think Honda did (My personal opinion not fact)
The TL was redesigned in '99. The TL offered performance and features for a price that Inifniti and Lexus couldn't match. What was the catch?? Hidden cost cutting, things like fake leather, fake wood, all buttons are from the Accord, cheap tires, and other things. But hey a '99 Tl sure was better than a '99 I30. But Acura thought the car was too slow. So they put in a 5spd auto. Too put in a new, never before used, 5spd auto was a costly thing to do. So what Honda did was they build the 5spd auto inside the 4spd auto's housing. How did they make it fit?? They thinned out the gears and used thinner cheaper inside parts. Nissan did the same thing on the old Silvias in Japan (5spd-6spd manual). Now Honda knows that the 5spd auto can't handle the power because of its cheaper gears.

And there is a little more proof to the story. The '99 Tl and Prelude, both had 4spd autos. When the driver is in Sport Shift mode. You can redline all the gears and the car will stay in the selected gear. In the 5spd auto, when the driver is in Sport Shift mode (overriding the auto), the auto's computer will override the driver and shift gears, if the RPMs get too high in first and second gear. This computer override feature was created so the first and second gears won't be badly hurt during full trottle accellerations, hinting to the fact that the gears weren't built as strong as the 4spd auto's.

This applies to the Cl and Cl-S.

EricL

Well, I'm sure cost cutting was involved (as it is in any “sane” company), but there are a few problems with some of the "details" you present as “fact”. The SS shift issues (you mentioned) do NOT match any of the info or experience I have with my tranny. If the premises are not accurate, it is like building on a foundation of quick sand – the rest comes toppling down…

From most of the "folks" I've talked to, the gears are good for lots of HP (the same can't be said for the bearings and clutch packs).

The "engine speed" is not the major factor in breakage... The stock box (without mods) sees the maximum torque before the current shift points in the various gears during full auto operation (the auto’s 1st to 2nd shift). It is the addition of the Comptech headers that moves the new and higher torque peak to around 6K rpms. The torque is what breaks gears, not HP and the car shifts after the torque peak/”max load”!

It is interesting that the 4th to 3rd gear has the most "paranoid" limits of any of the SS downshift speed limits... For example, there the constant stories of people complaining about NOT being able to get back into 3rd above 80-85MPH from 4th gear in SS mode. The usual tricks like a quick pop on the brake and a brief "pause in acceleration" can help, but I find it interesting that the torque seen by the differential carrier bearings is at its lowest in the highest gears (3rd, 4th, and 5th).

The differential carrier bearings seem to be "flaky"/"week" (reports/rumors/etc); they “shed” and cause particles to get stuck in the shift solenoids and fluid passages. The torque converter has no relation to the actual gear strengths (and it along with the diff. carrier bearings are the "rumored"/"reported" upgrades performed in the “improved” boxes).

So, I'm sure that cost containment was a goal in the design of the 5-speed and any engineer would be a fool to not "try" and engineer some parts reuse/commonality (where appropriate) into a design.

When I'm in 2nd gear and in SS mode, the car stays in 2nd gear unless the revs go way to low. The same behavior is repeated in 3rd and 4th. So, at least my CLS tranny seems to want to stay in gear. Perhaps there is a problem in your transmission that should be checked into...

Finally, despite the "cloud" hanging over Level-10's operations (due to some law suite issues), they seem quite confident in the ability of the stock gears to handle around 500HP and 400+lb-ft of torque with their mods (gears get used as-is) . The gears look pretty beefy from the perspective of the Helms and the general consensus is:

1. The gears (look at them from the outside) are tough enough.
2. The clutch packs could use some upgrading for more power handling.
3. The timing and shift transitions could be altered to make for faster and harsher shifts (better for the clutch packs)..
4. Torque converter could use beefing-up.
5. Additional of transmission cooler for heavy duty use...