eighteight

have a bubble on my tire, 30k miles. Why does everybdy say change all 4 or at least 2 at the same time. I understand they wont be "worn" the same, but whats the big deal about that? I would rather not have to throw out 3 good (decent) tires which im sure still have 20k miles left in them. Why cant i just change 1 now, then at 50k miles or whenever, change them all?

synth19

^ just change one then. Don't be pushed around here by the tire bully's.

Hobo

i would just not drive over 120 or do any crazy driving if you have 1 tire that has different grip characteristics than the others.

at least make sure that the new one goes on the back, so the drive wheels are the same

John-K

When I got a bubble in the left driver-side tire, I only replaced it. About 10k miles later, it got flat. The other three were fine.

I don't know why, but I had the feeling that the root cause was because I didn't change both front tires, or all four at the same time.

Superstitious I guess.

anothercls

There's a member in NJ with bubbles in all his tires....he drives just fine.

Ant7701

you should replace two at a time...just to keep things even. you can have two michelins in the front and two sumitomos in the rear...it doesn't really mater. As long as the front and rear tires are the same. now if you got a bubble in the right front for instance and your left front is only 5k old or so...just replace the one and you'll be fine. However if your left front is 20k old...replace both. If you just replace one in that situation and keep the new/old combo in the front...your car will pull in one direction. Technically you can have 4 completely different tires on your car and it will still drive right!!!So it's just what you want to do for looks/performance/saftey/budget.

dfv3.2CL-S

iTrader: (1)

it contributes to a non balance track/tracking and may lead to handling problems down the road. It happen to me in my Jetta VR6 with a set of Eagle GA that had roughly about 25K on them. The best option is to get two and placed them on the back and the old ones in the front.

Ant7701

Two new tires ALWAYS go on the front. ^^

sgmotoring

Who said you can't change 1 tire? It is RECOMMENDED you change two, if your other tires are worn. If you don't care about your car pulling, you can get a different brand of tire on all 4 corners. America Tires Depot tried to sell me a set of front tires when I got my new rims. I ask them why? They told me it was cupping on the inside edges. My car is lowered and slight uneven wear on the inside egdes are normal. Those tires had 7/32 inch tread left. I said no and they turn away and said it is your life and car. I will never go back to that American Tires Depot again.

dfv3.2CL-S

iTrader: (1)

You may want to research your response with Tire rack and Discount Tire.

dfv3.2CL-S

iTrader: (1)

BTW, I forgot to post the article.

ANT 7701 just read up on this article from tire rack

Additional Tire Tech Articles Air Pressure Air Pressure vs. Dry Performance Air Pressure vs. Wet Performance Alignment Breaking In Your Tires Bridgestones's UNI-T Technology Calculating Tire Dimensions Checking Tire Inflation Pressure Contact Patch Diagnosing Tire Pull Driving Through Tire Blowouts Firestone's UNI-T Technology Hydroplaning: The Role Tires Play Matching Tires on Four-Wheel Drive and All-Wheel Drive Vehicles Michelin's C3M Process Mounting and Balancing Original Equipment (OE) Tires The Plus Concept P-Metric and Euro Metric Tire Sizing Porsche N-Specification Tire Approvals Puncture Repairs Road Hazard Program Rolling Resistance Rubber Cracking Selecting the Right Tires Sidewall Indentations/Undulations Sidewall Markings Specific Mileage Warranties Speedometer Accuracy Speed Rating, Load Index & Service Descriptions Tire Flatspotting Tire & Wheel Owners Manual Tire & Wheel Package Installation Tire & Wheel Package Ride Uniformity Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems Tire Rotation Tire Size Conversion Chart Tire Size Information Tramlining: Coping with the Ruts in the Road Uniform Tire Qualtiy Grade (UTQG) Vibration Diagnosis Flow Chart Warranty When Should I Replace My Tires? Where to Install New Pairs of Tires? -- Light Truck Tires -- Diameter Comparison of Light Truck Tire Sizes Light Truck Fitment Formula -- Run Flat Tires -- Run Flat Tires Testing the Dunlop SP Sport 9000 DSST -- Competition Tires -- Air Pressure for Competition Tires Care and Feeding of BFG g-Force R1 Tires Care and Feeding of the Kumho ECSTA V700 Care and Feeding of the Kumho V700 Victoracer Care and Feeding of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Care and Feeding of the Pirelli P Zero Corsa Getting More Out of Competition Tires Hoosier Racing Tire Tips Our Heat Cycling Service Shaving Tires for Competition Read Winter Tire Tech Articles

Article:
Most vehicles are equipped with the same size tire at every wheel position. Ideally all of these tires should also be of the same type and design, have the same tread depth and be inflated to the pressures specified by the vehicle placard or owner's manual. This combination best retains the handling balance engineered into the vehicle by its manufacturer.

However due to the front tires' responsibility for transmitting acceleration, steering and most of the braking forces on front-wheel-drive vehicles, it's normal for front tires to wear faster than rear tires. If the tires aren't rotated on a regular basis, it's also common for pairs of tires to wear out rather than sets. And if the tires aren't rotated at all, it's likely that the rear tires will still have about 1/2 of their original tread depth when the front tires are completely worn out.

Intuition suggests that since the front tires wore out first and because there is still about half-tread remaining on the rear tires, the new tires should be installed on the front axle. This will provide more traction, and by the time the front tires have worn out for the second time, the rear tires will be worn out too. However in this case, intuition isn't right...and following it can be downright dangerous.

When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the worn tires moved to the front. The reason is because new tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads because new, deeper treaded tires are more capable of resisting hydroplaning.

Hydroplaning occurs when the tire cannot process enough water through its tread design to maintain effective contact with the road. In moderate to heavy rain, water can pool up in road ruts, depressions and pockets adjacent to pavement expansion joints. At higher speeds, the standing water often found in these pools challenge a tire's ability to resist hydroplaning.

Exactly when hydroplaning occurs is the result of a combination of elements including water depth, vehicle weight and speed, as well as tire size, air pressure, tread design and tread depth. A lightweight vehicle with wide, worn, underinflated tires will hydroplane at lower speeds in a heavy downpour than a heavyweight vehicle equipped with new, narrow, properly inflated tires in drizzling rain.

If the rear tires have more tread depth than the front tires, the front tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the rears. This will cause the vehicle to begin to understeer (the vehicle wants to continue driving straight ahead). Understeer is relatively easy to control because releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle and help the driver maintain control.

However, if the front tires have more tread depth than the rear tires, the rear tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the fronts. This will cause the vehicle to begin to oversteer in which the vehicle wants to spin. Oversteer is far more difficult to control, and in addition to the initial distress felt when the rear of the car starts sliding, quickly releasing the gas pedal in an attempt to slow down may actually make it more difficult for the driver to regain control, possibly causing a complete spinout.

Members of The Tire Rack team had the chance to experience this phenomenon at Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds. Participants were allowed to drive around a large radius, wet curve in vehicles fitted with tires of different tread depths — one vehicle with new tires on the rear and half-worn tires on the front, and the other with the new tires in the front and half-worn tires on the rear.

It didn't take long for this hands-on experience to confirm that the "proving grounds" name for the facility was correct. The ability to sense and control predictable understeer with the new tires on the rear, and the helplessness in trying to control the surprising oversteer with the new tires on the front was emphatically proven.

And even though our drivers had the advantage of knowing we were going to be challenged to maintain car control, spinouts became common during our laps in the car with the new tires on the front. Michelin advises us that almost everyone spins out at least once!

Experiencing this phenomenon in the safe, controlled conditions of Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds rather than in traffic on an Interstate ramp in a rainstorm is definitely preferred!

In case there is any doubt, when tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the worn tires moved to the front.

Hobo

ok.. well if your worried all about safety nitrous and headers... etc arent for you.. if you are getting 2 new tires and you care about going fast put them on the front.. traction > *.

eighteight

thanks for the advice, i think im just gonna change 1. I cant see myself throwing out 3 tires just cause 1 has a bubble. I cant see myself changing 2 either for tha tmatter, cause then what do i do in another year when the other 2 have to get changed, then i will never have 4 identical tires. I rather just replace the 1, then when the other 3 are worn replace all 4 and just throw out 1 decent tire, or if anythign make that my spare.

dfv3.2CL-S

iTrader: (1)

I am guessing that the tire rack article did not enlighten you and the researcher at TR dont know anything about tire safety, performance and tire behavior.

BTW you dont have to throw out 3 it will only be 2tires. If you are concern with having uneven tire wear just put the new one in front and dont change/rotate tire until 15k or 20K and you will end up with about equal wear and tear on all four corners.

heyitsme

Well I've had 3 flat tires in the last two years and I only go for 1 tire at a time and no they weren't on the same side or all on front vs rear. If anything, get a new tire that performs as well as the others and you'll be fine. Replacing all is stupid, sure its optimal, but its not realistic unless you own a tire supplier.

dano80g

If you follow TR's advice you'll never be able to rotate the tires until you get 4 new ones. The new rear tires will never wear fast enough to to match the front tread depth. The difference in tread depth will always continue to increase.

sgmotoring

No kidding less tread have a better chance of hydroplaning. What if you have all 4 tires at 50%? Does that mean you understeer and oversteer 50% easier? If you have 50% tread left and you felt your car have oversteer or understeer, slow down you are going too fast.

Ant7701

OMG...new tires ALWAYS go on the front....IMO and basically every human on the planet that has experienced a blow-out on a front tire. Now...if u have a front wheel drive car like most of us here...then u definitly place them in front for traction and safety. If u have a rear wheel drive car then technically u can put them in back for traction in the rain and shit but having a blow-out on a front tire is extremely dangerous and causes many accidents. you completly lose control of the vehicle and it swerves severly. so why would u intentionaly place the shittier tires on the front. And if your rear tires are soo bad that you'll be hydroplaning...REPLACE THEM TOO!!!!! I've been doing this for too long to listen to a tire-rack artical. not to mention...over-steering, imo is easier to contol. Because you can turn out of it. When ur front tires are sliding in an understeer....how can u turn out of it if ur front tires have no traction.

Roleez

Money should NEVER be an issue when it comes to one of the two main safety components on a car ... 1) tires and 2) brakes. If it is, then you cannot afford to maintain an automobile such as the CL.

Think of it this way ... $100 more or less on a 2nd new tire vs. $6,000+ out of your relative's bank accounts (unless you have a will) for funeral expenses in the untimely demise that the 2nd un-replaced tire happened to lose grip in the rain, or just happened to blow out. Harsh yes, but makes perfect sense. If your ride has mods that cost more than the price of 1 tire, you can afford another tire.

Ant7701

eighteight.....replace just that one tire. Place the new one in the rear along w/ the other front tire and rotate both rears to the front. You'll be fine...trust me

eighteight

wiat im confused - your saying put the NEW tire that i buy in the front or back?

Ant7701

If u replace TWO tires...place them in the FRONT

If u replace ONE tire...place it in the back so u don't have one half worn tire in the front along w/ a brand new one.

eighteight

thanks, i just got the tires rotated and the one with the buble is in the bakc now so i'll just replace that one and leave it. Thanks again

Ant7701

good..

ferizzo

you idiot, just get 5 tires (one as a spare)! j/k! one is good. It might be best to find a used one though and then change all four (or two) together down the line. at 30k miles might as well find a decent used one here (I bought one from a member) and then get some new ones next year.

eighteight

wow almost a year to the day, and guess what - the new tire has a bubble in it now!! i think i paid $200 for that from a acura dealer, may have been PAA. Im replacing it with a used one this time, should have done it last time too.

03 CL TypeS

Have you even read the article posted by TR? It very accurately describes what happens when you place new tires on the front and leave worn out tires in the back. You WILL SPIN OUT by doing so.

Here's a real-world example: a few winters ago, I got 2 new winter tires and put them on the front of my VW Golf, leaving worn out winter tires in the back. During the first snowstorm, I took a left-hand turn at less than 10mph and spun out completely. Why? Because my front tires had full traction and my rear tires had nearly none! And go figure, it didn't happen when I put new winter tires in the back as well.

CONCLUSION: Putting new tires on the front instead of the back will cause the car to oversteer unexpectedly. You will lose control of the car, potentially harming or causing death yourself and/or others. Period.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Um, no. You ALWAYS put the new tires in the back, regardless of drivetrain configuration. Since most of us here drive FWD, let's use that for an example.

Coming into a corner on wet pavement with worn tires in the front, the driver will notice the "push", or understeer. In this case, simply taking your foot off the gas pedal could correct the situation.

Coming into a corner on wet pavement with worn tires in the rear, the traction of the front tires turning into the corner will out-perform the traction of the worn rear tires, and the rear tires will not be able to hold the lateral force and snap out. Especially in a FWD, a rear-end spin-out is EXTREMELY more difficult to correct than a slight understeer going into a turn, as described in the first example.

You made some good points, but you're wrong. Michelin, Motor Trend, Tire Rack, Discount Tire and numerous other tire companies/resellers will tell you that you're wrong.

m&b6speed

i was a supervisor in a costco tire center, and their policy, which was recommended by michelin, bfg, and bridgestone(the brands they carry) was that all new tires, unless its 3-4 of course, go in the back. there were many arguements with members about this. the reasoning, and they sent us videos, was that under hard breaking, you would loose traction in the back and 90% of people with front drive, or any drive cars for that matter, cant correct that.

basically you have no controll over the back wheels and want as much of an advantage as you can

obviously for acceleration, this doesn't make sense but thats what we had to do

the exception is if all tires are with in 2/32 (dont remember exactly) of eachother then it wont matter.

just telling you what we were told to follow directly from the mentioned above tire manufactures.

whoever installs them should have a policy or something to this affect.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. It's much easier to control understeering than oversteering. I experienced this first-hand this past weekend when I was attending an HPDE and spun out at 80 mph. Whoever says put new tires in the front is an idiot.

EricL

Michelin also maintains that the tires should be replaced in the rear.

However, I think I would move the two to the front as you suggest. IOW, I AGREE with you 100%!!!

I've talked to a number of tire dealers and our car is very front heavy and demands a lot from the tires (the car is seriously front heavy).

There front tires also clear -- or in effect evacuate water -- for the back tires when driving in a straight line on the freeway.

The rules presented by Tire Rack and Michelin are "general" rules -- at least in my opinion.

Also, this is slightly off topic, but some of the early 2001 CL models are getting close to 6-years in age. Some folks might have kept the stock -- or other harder-compound tires -- and have might still have adequate tread. Tires get old with time -- ozone, environmental factors, heat, and time -- all conspire to wear out tires (just because there is sufficient tread, doesn’t make for a “safe” tire; there was a recent news article on this topic). Most of the tires that I've gotten flats on have been older tires with acceptable remaining tread depth. Yes, I have gotten a lot of life (in years) out of some tires, and the slow leaks, flats, and other problems have generally occurred later in the tire’s life. Moral of the story: when looking for replacement of a tire (or tires) -- PLEASE consider the length of time that the opposing tire has been left on the car; if it is has been on the car for a number of years, the rubber could be getting hard and cracked and will not handle the same as the new, softer rubber on the other side. (Not all tires and compounds are created equal, so YMMV.)

BAWB

What do you guys think of Nitrogen inflation. Good, bad, indifferent?

I really had no opinion about this until my tire had a slow leak, with this i realized how dangerous it was that you can't really notice a tires is low until it reaches an unsafe amout (around 10-15psi) I refilled all four tires with nitrogen and the slow leak went away. I haven't exactly figured this out until reading this article from toyo and a few others since, the article from nhtsa is for those people who like to pinch pennies and get 60,000 miles outta tires.


Slower rate of pressure loss. The rubber used for tubes & inner liners in tubeless tyres is not 100% impermeable, therefore some pressure loss can be expected over time. This is one reason why regular pressure checks are necessary. Due to its molecular structure, nitrogen bleeds through the inner liner or tube at a slower rate than regular compressed air. This advantage applies to all tyres filled with nitrogen. Regular pressure checks are still recommended, as tyres often lose pressure due to slow leaks caused by punctures or valve leaks. Regular pressure checks may indicate a tyre has a slow leak and needs an internal inspection and repair or valve replacement.

here is the rest from toyo


toyo


cotsco


NHTSA tire aging tests

m&b6speed

good point thats true, older tires do "wear out" even if you cannot see it. tires are generally only good for 5 yrs, after that they should be replaced. area with higher salt concentrations may be sooner

m&b6speed

just before i left costco they had the nitrogen added to the tire center. you cant feel the difference, and it supposed to be better so why not.
the only thing that sucks is that it places that fill with nitrogen they have to use green valve stem caps to be able to tell the difference-of course i changed mine back to black

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Yep, just about 63% of the weight in the front, if I remember right.

However, when was the last time you saw a car spin out nose-first? True, the front tires do clear the water for the rear tires, more or less. But then again, we are not talking about running slicks in the front. I'd rather hydroplane in the front than the rear.

I've never lost control of my car from understeering. But I have lost control of my car twice due to oversteering. And both of those times, traction was minimal. First time, it was in the snow, and the second time, it was in the rain.

When I felt a loss of traction in the front, I could feel it through the steering wheel and I slowed down. With a loss of traction in the rear, ordinary people can't save it. It just snaps out, and I mean it really just snaps out without any sort of warning. Try saving that.

But honestly, unless you're driving in an inch of water and a significantly low amount of tread in the rear tires, it won't matter. As long as you have a safe amount of tread on the tires, everything's fine. Just gotta use common sense and don't get in over your head when traction is an iffy.