codehead

I have 66k miles on my 2003 CL-S six speed, and I'm eating front tires for the past year.

I had a set of Toyo Proxes T1R tires, all was good. Got a new gf a year ago, lives 42 miles away, so started hitting the freeway after mostly local street driving. First thing I noticed was a shimmy when I'd brake at high speed--obviously needed new rotors, wasn't obvious at slower speed stops, so got new brakes and rotors. But I started eating tires--I sear I could see the thread loss on a round-trip to see my gf.

I ate the front T1R's while the rears were still good. Bought a pair of Dunlops for the rear and moved the older Toyo's to the front, went through them quickly, got another set of Dunlops, repeat--the fronts are bald and the rears still look fine. For the past few months, I make gf drive to see me instead of splitting it :-/

The tire wear is quite even, wearing a bit faster on both side of both front tires than in the middle. And no, it's not a problem with tire inflation. I've had it aligned, and check multiple times through this, and of course every time I get new front tires. It's fine. Plus, it's not the wear pattern of an alignment problem.

I was thinking it must be the bushings or something (ball joints came to mind, but I'd expect some sort of roughness, and it drives smooth), maybe wore faster when I had that front-end shimmy on braking. But I just took it in, and the mechanic says everything looks fine, including bushings and ball joints.

Of course the shocks are getting aged, but I don't notice any vibration problem on the freeway. Sometimes it seems the steering is a little mushy here and there, but maybe I'm imagining that, and I've been driving it pretty tamely because those tires are getting thin.

Any ideas? For now, I guess I'll put a couple of new tires on it and check the alignment, but I gotta figure it will eat these too. I only drive about 8k a year (bought it in early April 2002), so eating three sets of tires in a year is pretty "unusual".

thanks

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

What kind of rims?
What tire size?
What PSI are you running?

codehead

The stock 6mt rims, standard tire size (215/50R17), standard inflation--yeah, the wear pattern looks like the usual under-inflated pattern (though with a bit more wear in the middle probably) but they aren't.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

& your sure the front alignment is accurate? Something with that front could not be right.
Bad ball joints, bushings, bent suspension. Something.
You swapped the rims front to back & they wore too so it's not your rims.
I know the T1R's like a higher PSI from experience. I ran mine at 38 cold.
You say standard inflation...what is that 32psi? That may be what's on the door jam but it's not always correct to use for different tires.

codehead

I kept them 33 psi or a little better. I had numerous alignment check, and of course had it aligned when I put new tires on it. It was either in spec, or just a little out. The only weird thing was that they (Just Tires) checked one time, and showed me that I was a little out on one front, and right on the edge on a rear. I took the car to the dealer to take care of the brake problem (new rotors), then brought it back to the tire place to get aligned. After checking the alignment, the guy said, "They did a good job--it's perfect." I asked what he was talking about, and he said the dealer did a good job on the alignment. I told him they didn't align it--he shrugged and said my alignment was perfect. (And yeah, he did it in the bay next to the waiting room, with a glass window, so I saw him do the alignment check.)

BTW, I always had good service at Just Tires, but I don't know if I'd go back now. The shop I took it to this time said that one pair of the Dunlop tires they sold me are 2007, and the other 2008--they sold them to me about a year ago, and mid-year.

I'll know more about the alignment tomorrow. Only one tire came in today, so they are getting the other tomorrow from a different place.

The only other thing I can say is that, when driving the freeway, I had a consistent, mild pull to the right. Then after maybe 20-30 minutes of driving, it would be gone.

Still, the puzzling thing is that I'm getting really fast wear on the fronts (like, less than 3k), but the wear is extremely even. By that I mean, this time I took it about down to the cords, and the right and left tires are pretty much identical on wear. And the left and right side of each are even. The middle definitely wears slower than the edges, but not huge.

codehead

OK... alignment *still* checks out beautiful. Anyway, I expected it would, since both front are wearing evenly. Thanks for trying--for now, it's still a mystery.

Nersh7

at 33 psi your under inflating, if the tires are rated to a max of 40 then they need 35 regular if its 50 then they should be around 42. the rating will be on the side walls of your tires if you didnt know this.

however if this was the problem you would think the rears would be showing the same wear, I think there is something wrong with the alignment but I guess you will know soon.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I usually fill the tires to what my door jam sticker tells me.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

if you open your driver side door and look at the recommended level of air pressure that is required that is how much air you put in you tires, not whats on the side of the tire, and as far as I know, on the side of the tire all I see is max air pressure allowed.

codehead

Well, what can I say, drove the route to gf's last night, car drove great as usual. Dead straight on the freeway at the speed limit or so, can take my handle off the wheel, no pulling. Again, the alignment was dead on, didn't have to be aligned after changing tires (rotated the old set up from the rears, put new Toyos on back).

Whether inflation was ideal or not (tried to make sure it was a little on the high side of what the door jam said), it wasn't enough to cause the high-speed wear.

And alignment--there is really no way to get that even wear pattern with an alignment problem. Even wear means the alignment is, on average, on the money.

It sure seems like it has to be a stability-related problem--bushings, ball joints... but a few problems with that: First, that stuff checked out fine. Second, it seems improbable that I wouldn't feel that in the handling. Third, it seems equally improbable that there wouldn't be some sort of pattern in the wear (scalloping, etc.)--it's amazingly even.

I'm not a mechanic, but I am an engineer, and you'll virtually always have some sort of resonant frequency, at least at certain speeds. Even if you don't feel it right away because the shocks are taking it up, it won't be long before the shocks get beaten down and you'll feel the resonance. And you'll see it in the wear pattern. It would be unusual to have an instability that was so broadband that you couldn't feel it or see the effects, I think.

The only thing that can be said for *sure* is that the tires are getting hotter than normal (by definition), and that's why they are wearing faster than normal. And the heat is coming from more friction that normal, and that means there is something going on up front that is causing it. I felt the tires at the end of the drive, and the fronts were warm, the rears cool. No surprise, and I don't have anything to compare it to, but I just wanted to see if the difference was apparent to touch, and it was obvious.

So, thanks for the tries, guys. I'll have to live with it for now, and maybe the problem will become obvious at some point.

rp_guy

you are wrong, and should really look into this before you tell people what to do. it's already been noted in this thread but the correct inflation pressure will be listed on the door jamb.

Nersh7

No I'm not wrong and I am willing to put money on it.

For the stock tires that come on the car 33 psi is correct because thats what the stock specs call for, however consider any tire that doesnt come with the car brand new to be after market. At this point specs change, you wouldn't put an air filter that comes with the car on a cold air intake it just doesnt work.

The recomended psi for any tire you ever get will be 80% of the max written on the side wall of said tire

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

to me it sounds like mayeb ur back allignment is good but ur front tire are both pointing inwards slightly like this ^ and if they were off evenly it would put resistance on the tread and wear it out faster.


that's just my theory

rp_guy

no it is not, and you should go look at some stock tires while you're at it. if you're at stock spec tires, there's no reason to go anything other than what is recommended.

Nersh7

Trust me man I have a couple mechanics in the family and worked at a tire shop last summer, not saying that I have tons of experience but one thing I learnt is that the correct psi is 80% of the max, for a max 40 psi this works out to about 35 and for a max 50 its about 43.

And why do you believe that all tires have to be put at this? your just coming on here and saying no its not true because it says it on the car, well what about what it says on the tire? you would think that a company that makes tires not cars would know better than the company that invests their time into making cars would you not? you don't see the race cars with GM TIRES as their sponsor stickers on their car because companies that make cars don't focus on the tires.

I'm saying that this is what I learnt and that its what is recommended from the tire company's, not

Nersh7

I don't often come on here and say this is how its done and I'm right because I don't know that much about a lot of the stuff that goes on here, in fact 90% of what I've learnt has probably been from this site and the people on it.

however, this I know so don't tell me I'm wrong unless you can give me a better reason than what I already believe.




Actually fuck this... your right....
its 2 fucking psi

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

So basically, because our speedos go up to 160mph, you constantly cruise at 128mph simply because its 80% of the max?

The max inflation value on the sidewall is just that, max inflation. The specs on the door jam are the manufacturers recommendation. The vehicle manufacturer is the one that engineered the suspension, the braking, and everything else on the car. Yes, tire companies do their own engineering as well, however they have no idea what car youre putting it on and how a given PSI will effect handling. You can lower the psi for better traction or raise it for better gas mileage. Its up to you, just dont go above the max listed on the sidewall.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

That seems odd, are you lowered and sure alignment is ok. I drove around on bad ball joints for a long time and it didnt do this to my tires. I got over 70k miles on my stock tires they basically lasted me 6 years before i ever replaced them.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree with Nersh7. While the PSI for the car may be good for a stock sized tire, once you go over that you need to use it as a baseline & adjust to your driving style, & conditions. IE if your running 235-45-17's you may need to adjust it. But then maybe not. They are guidelines.
Just because the maker of the car says it seems to be good, doesn't make it so.
Replacement tires are different then stock tires the car comes with. Some have soft/hard sidewalls, some are made differently & may react different to air pressure.
I don't think I ever used what was on the door jam for long on any set of tires for any car I had.

Nersh7

haha Yes I do

I'm just saying that when I was working at a tire shop I was taught that the regular psi should be 80% of whatever the max is. The 2 psi difference between what I think it should be and what some other people think it should be isn't much of a difference but IMHO I believe that they recommend that you under inflate them because they will wear faster then you will buy more tires.

codehead

Interesting theory, but that's not the way it works. Set aside the fact that, as I said, the front alignment checked out fine--no alignment required when I put on the new set last week. If your tires are toe-in, it has a specific wear pattern. When it's extreme, they can wear in a scallop pattern. My second car did that brand new off the dealer lot. And it took out the front shock too, as the freeway resonance that cause the scalloping also beat down the shocks.

Nersh7

I was thinking, do you have a kid or have you recently lent out your car...

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

What condition are your inner and outer tie rod ends in?

codehead

I can't make that judgement, but Independent Repair said everything checked out ok--said one of my rear shocks is leaking a little, that's it.

And no, I don't lend my car out, I'm the only one who drives it. Son followed in dad's footsteps and bought a Civic, after wrecking my old Legend--lol. (My first car was '75 Civic.)

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Wrecked Legend -





Oh wait, it was an 89

codehead

Yeah, but it was a coupe

built like a tank, only had about 120k...

type s negative

Hey Code .... got a similiar pblm on my '01 cls, only my fronts are wearing right down the middle, like tires are over-inflated, which they're not. It has to be in the front end, as the steering wheel seems to vibrate at 55mph and tire pressure and brakes and pads are all fine. I am not buying new tires till I get this sorted out ... visiting dealer this week, so hopefully will get some answers then.

codehead

Maybe bushings worn? Wow, middle... seems weird...

Misdby1

I also have an 01 CLS with front tire wear issues. I recently put on 19's but my stock set had the same wear. The outsides wore extremely fast and, on the left front specifically, wore a groove into the inside of the tire. It was almost has if it was rubbing on something consistently only there were no rub marks. I need to change the shocks/struts all the way around and with 160k on the car now, I would assume the bushings would need to be replaced as well. Any other suggestions? TIA

tangsauce

OP, considering alignment, ball joints and bushings are ok, have you checked out your shocks? Are they leaking? A visual inspection is a MUST here. You can not go on "cabin vibrations" to rule out if they are ok. It could be the cause of your premature tire wear.

codehead

Good point... the shop did check the shocks, and said one of the rears is leaking a little. They seemed to think the front shocks were fine.

jl03CLS

i had the same exact problem. left front tire was down to the threads on the inside. maybe i should lose weight...