I've done the search and found some answers scattered throughout various threads. I need to pull the trigger and upgrade the look performance of my car with coilovers/wheels and maybe brakes.

I have seen where people have had some negative comments on the spc suspension parts when dropping the car. some people say it bumps into the "a" arm? is that right? but many say it bumps something,

Many have discovered the ingalls setup and they offer two control arms with different adjustment range/thickness. one is -2 degree to +1 1/4 degree, the other is +1degree to +4 degree.

what does that mean?

the smart arms ingallls offers, what is difference between their product and the spc , I'm referring to the rear arms now?

Feed me data!

 

SPC and Ingall's were sister companies for a while and therefore produced very similar parts. The front camber kits are the same but the rear camber kits differ slightly. They replace different arms AFAIK. I have that there are some noise issues with both kits; not that this happens frequently. I am just trying to show that both kits have the propensity to make noise. I know SPC only offers one rear kit and from Ingall's site it appears they only offer one also.

 

I'm running SPC adjustable ball joints in the front and SPC adjustable arms in the rear. They work fine with me but I'm not running a big drop either.

For the front:
As far as the difference between the two, SPC just replaces your stock ball joint with one that's in a sliding bracket and you're still using your stock upper control arm. Ingalls replaces the whole upper control arm and allows for a bigger drop. Their A-arm has a lower profile so when you have your car dropped and you bottom out, the top of the control arm doesn't hit the top of the fender well.

I actually wish that I took a closer look at the Ingalls before I went with SPC. It looks like a better design but the kits is much more pricey. I'm not sure how much guys are paying for the ingalls kits but I was able to get the SPC kits for around $60-65 per corner delivered out of A&H Motorsport.

Here's a link to the Ingalls front arm:
http://www.ingallseng.com/parts/39201-39204.htm


For the Rear:
As far as the rear arm, SPC and Ingalls each replace different arms. The SPC arm adjusts camber buy replacing the upper fixed arm with their adjustable arm. Ingalls replaces the lower arm with an adjustable unit. I like the design of the Ingalls kit as their replacement arm leaves the stock ball joint alone on the upper arm. The Ingalls arm is also easier for your alignment guy to get to since it's on the bottom.

Here's a link to the Ingalls rear arm:
http://www.ingallseng.com/parts/38720.htm


If I had it to do over again without price being considered, I would go with the Ingalls kits as they appear to be better designs and more thought out.

As far as the Degrees of Adjustment, when you drop your car, you will get more negative camber meaning that the bottom of the tire will be pushed out as compared to the top of the tire. 0.00 degrees means that the tire is exactly straight up and down. The kit that does +1.25 degrees to 4.00 degrees means that if you're currently at -4.00 degrees after you've dropped your car, you will be able to add back +4.00 degrees with their kit and get your camber back to 0.00 degrees. It's just the adjustment range that the kit is capable of. Once you decide on how much drop you want, you can select the correct kit.

I actually run -0.5 degrees in the front and -0.25 in the rear.

Hope this helps.

You can also download their installation instructions on each of the kits to get an idea of difficulty.

 

Here's a link to the SPC site:
http://www.specprod.com/PROD_DIR/PROD_APPS.HTML

Here's a picture of the adjustable ball joint for the front suspension: See how the top bolt and plate extend up above the control arm. I think that's what people are hitting on the upper fender well.



Here's a picture of their rear arm. Notice that one end has a replacement ball joint as part of the design:

 

when i did my coilovers, i noticed there was less than -1 degree in the front on mine. is that normal on the front end? i dropped the front to where the tire sits even with the fender lip.

 

I actually would have thought you would have more negative camber for that type of drop. How many inches did you drop? 2-3 inches?

 

Thanks Josh, what does AFAIK stand for?





Thanks for the explanation. It poses a couple more questions.

At what point in the drop does it become necessary to use the +1 - +4degree arm?

Can you use both the spc rear upper arm in conjunction with using the ingalls rear lower arm? Are there benifits to this or is it useless?

At what drop are people hitting the fender with the spc adjustable ball joint? do you think a 2 -3" drop in the front would bump? I'm planning on 19's on the front and 20's on the back, ronjon style offsets. I may be off on the 2-3" drop with that size wheel. Would it be less of a drop? Love the stagger.

I seem to be leaning towards the ingalls parts, but I have already purchased the spc stuff . I'm in the same boat as you now that I have a better understanding of the different kits, (should have gone with ingalls) but if the spc won't hit the fender if I don't drop it much, then I'll probabley stick with what I have.

thanks.

 

AFAIK = As Far As I Know

 

When I was purchasing the front ingalls kit (w/ the control arm) I called up Ingalls and asked the same question. He said for our application you would use the +1 - +4 degree arm if you are planning to run lower than 2.5" drop. Up to a 2.5" drop you will be fine with the other kit (which by the way is cheaper).

 

Ingalls shows that front arm to be used when drops are greater than 1.5". SPC recommends their +1.5 - +3.0 ball joints on drops greater than 1.5". I'm dropped around 1.75" - 2.0" in the front and I'm running their standard part 67125 that's good for -1.5 to +1.5 degrees of adjustment.

It's going to be one or the other. If you installed both arms, you would have two variable points and adjusting would be a nightmare. I don't see any benefit to even attempting both arms. If you have the SPC arms, you'll be fine.

My opinion is that the hitting of the top of the fender well is more related to the spring rates used more than the amount of drop. I'm running Tokico Illuminas with the Comptech/Eibach springs. The springs are progressively wound which means that as the spring is compressed, the spring rate rises. I've hit some pretty big bumps and I've never hit the top of my fender well. If you're going coil over, you've got a lot of choices for springs. I think most coil over springs have linear spring rates so in order to get the high spring rates you'll need to not bottom out, you'll give up some ride comfort. That's the beauty of progressive springs. They're reasonable in the normal ride area but stiffen up as they get compressed as you need them. I've heard of guys stacking two half height springs on a coil over to accomplish something similar to a progressive. One spring that has a lower spring rate for the ride and one with a high spring rate that kicks in once the lower spring rate spring is fully compressed.

With all the WHP you're putting down, have you considered going with a lightweight forged wheel for performance? I don't know how much the Ronjon 19's weigh but I'm guessing that they're not light. Typically, we're on a quest to reduce weight off of any rotating mass to save WHP.

 

Thanks for all the info. Last year I bought the spc front and rear from excellerate and I have decided to use them. I'm just going to keep it simple and if the wheel and tire size I decide to put on the car in conjuntion with coilovers don't work with the spc, i'll try something else.

the decision on coilovers is kicking my a**.

Looked at the omnipower and saw that many people were experiencing bounce from the back.

Looking at Tanabe but can't find any reviews on them.

Tein is proven and very popular.

Apexi WS coilovers look pretty.

D2's?

I can't find much info on K-Sport, someone point me in the right direction?

 

I posted my experience with these two companies in a different thread so I copy and pasted it over here for you.

I have 18x7.5 45 offset with 235/40 tires and I get alittle rubbing in the back on bad bumps or if I corner hard with someone in the back seats. I am wanting to get the fenders rolled. Plus I do have 1.6 degree of negative camber in the back. If I was at 0 degree I would probably rub more.

As far as the front camber kit, go with the Ingalls full control arm. I had the SPC's at first and I was dropped on Tein SS' to the point of a 1 1/2 finger gap. Which is a 2 1/2 to 3" dropped when I compared it to my buddy's stock TL-S. Since the SPC kit adds about an inch and a half to the top of the factory control arm it would bang the bottom of the strut towers to the point that I actually have dimples in the engine compartment. It wouldn't do it all the time, but on certain bumps. Plus at the negative camber that I had them at made the ball joint boot rub on the slider and that made it tear, which then killed the ball joint in a year. I now have the control arms and since have had no more banging or boot rubbing issues. I bought the -2 to +1.75 version. Because I still wanted to keep negative camber for perfomance purposes, but could correct to stock camber with these if I wanted. Definitely check out iapdirect.com if you are really going to get the control arms it's the cheapest I ever found. It was 279 for both arms not 279 each like you find on other sites. I am planning to get Ingalls rear kit soon since -1.6 camber in the rear is a waste.

Well I hope this helps, happy shopping!

 

Our Devotion-1pF which Thin Jim is refering too weighs 19 lbs each and 21 lbs for thge 20", bith are alot lighter than the OEM 17" wheels and they are forged one piece.
Even our 19" Inspyre wheels are comparably as light as the 17" stock wheels, but about 1-2 lbs more.

 

Still doing a little homework on this and want to raise one more question that I didn't bring up before. I just spoke with tein on the spring rate for the SS and they come with 7kgFront/4kgRear. You can go up two sizes from 7to9 and 4-6 without re-valveing.

what can you guys tell me about the ride with the 7/4, how does it handle, bumps, etc. I'm looking for something aggressive to above middle of the road.
Fire away!

 

I've had those for 3yr's now and I've always wanted stiffer springs. I always thought they were to soft for our application. I run my dampning at 14f/14r. Which helped harden the feel. It's great, but I still think the front end bounces still alittle to much. My girlfriend says the ride is fine, I say it should be stiffer, some friends say the ride is fine and others say now is too rough. It's all in preference. I'll probably be getting the ss-p's soon and I'll be getting the stiffer springs this time. If you look at the application chart for the other acuras our cars have the smallest spring rate. Even the RSX has a higher rate then even our 9kg alternative.

As far as handling it is real good right now, but I also have comptech sway bars with modified energy suspension poly bushings front and back. They helped make a difference. I'm also the type of person that likes the feel of a stiff suspension so I can take a turn at high speed and not feel anybody roll. Plus I do go on 2-3hour rides and it is very tolerable and still comfortable to me and my girlfreind. Except if it is a concrete highway than it will bounce the shit out of you.

 

Louie- your imput is much appreciated, you seem to have a grip on this subject. What do you mean by the quote above? Are you referring to the adjustment setting on the dampner? If so, is that almost at the end of the adjustment?

You'd like to go stiffer(haha), what would be your choice of spring rate based on your experience so far? Thanks much!

 

Yes. The dampner adjusts from 0-16. 16 being the hardest. Don't get me wrong I do love the setup now I guess I just want alittle more. Maybe I watch too much gt1,gt2 and f1 racing. I just love how those cars can just take a fast corner without a flinch. I know that's too extreme for any everyday car. Now adays there are soo many cars luxury, sport, etc. that are faster than ours in a straight line. I just want to even the odds and in some cases beat them when it comes to handling and I just like the feeling.

As far as spring rate I think the extra 110lbs/in on the alternate spring should do the trick. Once again this is my everyday and year round car so I don't want a kidney killer. I do live in chicago and we have terrible roads here. I have weighed my car at the track and with me in it and everything I have done to it plus a 1/2 tank of gas. Came out to be 3890lbs. Using that as a reference point I was going to ask the guys at TEIN what they would suggest. Otherwise like I said before I will probably just get the 9kg and call it a day.

That's one of the good things about the acura meets. Of course they are never really timed in a manner of when you are trying to purchase something. They do at least let you maybe experience the feel of someone's ride that has the setup your thinking about. A suspension setup is something you really need to feel first hand to really know and experience for your self if it's right for you. Than someone just telling you it's too soft or too rough because everyone's preference and feeling is different. At least with performance mods everyones discription and feeling are pretty universal when it comes to feeling. Plus the dyno numbers help back it up. There's no real numbers to describe suspension feel. Hope I haven't confused you more than you needed to be.

 

Hey Thin, I hoped my pms about the ksports helped any.

13/7 spring rates that are w/ stock ksports might be a bit too stiff. I live in LA and although it's fun for me, it freaks people out when I hit a dip on the 405 and they fly up into the air =P. I also have 19" wheels so I take that into account as well.

Yen Wei (ShinyblueCLS) got his Ksports with custom 11kg/7kg (f/r). I have yet to ride in his car yet so I can't say for sure how it feels.

From what I know, the D2's are exactly the same spring rates (13kg/7kg) unless you get custom rates from whoever you buy it from.

Omnipower coilovers (black and red) I think that lil' brad has 'em I think run a stock 10kg/8kg spring rate.

My problem with the Teins were that the 7kg/4kg spring rates were a bit too soft and allowed too much body travel; thus making my wheels rub my fenders (shaved) on those same huge dips.

Also, I love the pre-load adjustability option with the ksports (the d2's and omnis have them too I think) where you can adjust height w/ the shock body rather than having to use the spring. It avoids the bottoming out of the shocks that I got a lot with the Teins when I was slammed down on them. You would have to purchase Tein Flex coilovers in order to have an adjustable shock body I believe.

I believe also that each of the companies I named minus Tein basics (need to get SS or SS-P) you can use the knob on top to custom adjust your dampening from soft to hard as well.

 

hey guys, thanks for sharing your opinions, I'm leaning towards 10kg/7kg, but have to decide which company to go with. seems the ksports or omnipower may be a good alternative to teins. Like the teins though.

Shineyblue, can you give your opinion?

lil' brad, an opinion from you on the omnipower?

 

After days of searching and numerous questions, I've decided to try these coilovers out. AMR engineering. Made the order and should get them within a week. For those who will ask the inevitiable question of "How Much", 825.00shipped, lifetime warranty. They come with a spring rate of 13/7 normally, like the Ksports, but I'm getting them with 10k/8k. they are 36 way adjustible. If your interested in where to get, just right clik the pics, and clik properties.

I couldn't see spending 1200.00 on teins and another 50.00 per spring to get the rate i wanted, and another $$?? to get the teins re-valved. Ya know, it's economics. Working on the wheel side now, more to come on that later.

 

They look real nice and very well made. The shocks look anodized instead of painted like the TEINS. My Teins have been chipped and now rusted do to the chicago winters. Was going to get a new set of Teins next summer w/higher spring rates, but now you might have given me a new alternative. Keep us posted.

 

Any updates on the AMR's. How they feel, any noises from the springs or pillow mount?
Getting new coilovers next month and just wondering, Thanks.