gmen213

Hello all,
I have a 2001 3.2 cl type S. For some time now I have been battling an intermittent no start issue. By no start I mean the engine cranks and turns over but just does not start. If I wait about 10-15 minutes and try again it starts right away as if there was never a problem. The car then will be good for a few days before this happens again. When it does happen, so far each time I am able to start the engine by waiting the 15 mins after the initial no start. I took it to pep boys who said it was the battery (which makes no sense since the engine was turning over) but I let them replace it anyway as a troubleshooting starting point. Funny thing is when I went to pick up the car after the battery was replaced the same no start condition happened right in their parking lot! They looked at it again and now say alternator which again makes no sense again. I told them not to touch it and got the car back. Today, randomly my car alarm went off twice a few hours apart. I noticed now that when I hit the lock button twice on the key fob I no longer hear the beep sound, although the doors do lock. Does it look like both the intermittent no start and car alarm issue are related??? Is there a single electrical component perhaps that controls both that may be failing? I do notice that the no start condition tends to occur on days that are hotter. Since the car alarm issue just started today I haven't had any pattern to that yet although it seems random to me. Any help is appreciated!! I have been very frustrated lately as you can imagine and am about ready to give up on this car = (. Any ideas/suggestions are appreciated!

Tosh

Pepboiz ruined your alarm and sold you a battery you didn't need. (Also check for credit card fraud.)

Most likely your no start is a flaky 'main relay' aka 'fuel pump relay' aka 'PGM-FI relay' which sits up under the dash to the left (look for a brown connector). Next time you get a no start, try tapping on this relay.

gmen213

So I did some research and a lot of blogs pointed to the main relay (as you suggested) so the other day I took it out and inspected it. All the solder joints looked really good to me, no cracks and all nice and shiny. As a test, I stuck a small peice of paper on the relay to keep the switch closed and still the car would not start (but engine turning over). Since the relay was forced in the closed positon I do not think the relay is the problem. Moreover, a few times when starting the car it started and then about 6-8 seconds later the engine coughed and died as it would if you just ran out of gas. I am thinking the issue now lies somewhere with the fuel pump.

Tosh

The 'test' you performed is not conclusive to rule out the relay. Just forcing it closed does nothing for repairing any broken pcb traces, which cause the relay to only work intermittently. The symptoms you describe still indicate a flaky relay, not necessarily a bad pump. Your research should have turned up videos and pics showing where and how to reflow the relay's pcb...
Bad pcb traces on this relay is a classic Honda failure mode throughout the decades; my 90 Legend had it...

gmen213

Not sure about the pcb traces. I'm no car expert by any stretch so honestly have no idea what that even is. How about the fact that the car starts sometimes and runs for a few seconds and then coughs and dies as if you ran out of gas? If the relay were the problem it should not cause a situation like that right? I thought the relay just triggers the fuel pump so if the engine starts then the relay worked.

Tosh

Your spectacular claims of ignorance are indeed backed up by your fault finding skills. But your earnestness amuses me (and I am impressed that you can remove the relay -- something I myself haven't even managed on this car) so I will stay a while longer, even though you smell a bit like a troll.
Your mama no doubt told you that you are a special person, but it is 99% certain that your Acura is not special, so you need to keep focusing on this relay.
Next assignment: look up the definition of "intermittent."

gmen213

I gave my car to an acura dealership this morning. I just received a call from them saying they have to replace a BAD FUEL PUMP.

My next assignment: never listen to Tosh as he is too overconfident and clearly wrong, tool. Next time be a little more open minded and helpful rather than condescending or dont bother responding at all and wasting my time. Thanks for trying though!

Tosh

Yes, I am 99% confident that it's the FI relay acting up, and you claim that I lost. Let me guess: you walked into the stealership and told your story, and they ringed their hands with dollar signs in their eyes and sold you a fuel pump? I'll bet they also put in a new relay (costs them $30) to fix the actual problem, while you walked away happy to be sold hundreds of dollars of unnecessary repairs, and claim to 'win' this thread.
Did you mark your original relay, so you can tell if it's still there? At least ask for the original fuel pump, so you can have it independently tested. Yes, I really am that cynical about stealerships' dishonesty, and you sound like a perfect mark for them...

gmen213

Yes, I did in fact mark the existing relay and asked to take back the existing pump. You're not the only bright one here as displayed in the thread below where you got schooled on the definition of condense lol

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/parking-brake-light-stays-483260/

Tosh

It's true: that time I fell prey to an arcane definition of 'condense' applied retroactively... And thanks for checking up on me -- I knew this would be amusing!

I hope you marked the pcb portion of the relay and not the housing. Those stealerships are crafty and know all the tricks. If this actually happened... you must be one of the special 1%...?

Mikehara

Dude! I hate to tell you this but it was just the relay. I currently have the same issue and after doing some research I duplicated the issue and tapped on the relay and it fired right up. It's never done that before. Like you I would have to wait about 15 minutes before it would start. Since relay is about $70 I'm gonna let it ride for while so the problem reoccurs and see if tapping on it consistently solves it. If after 2-3 more times and it works the. I will buy the relay. Sorry the dealership burned you but they're in the business to make money and will get it when they see the opportunity.

Tosh

Take your relay out and have the pcb joints re-flowed. You prob don't need to buy a new one.

More info about your Honda/Acura main relay:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainr....html#blueline
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainr...mainrelay.html

clinoak

Thanks for your timely post, Tosh. My kids just called and are having the same symptoms with my 01 CL. I recall hearing that this had been a problem in the past with the relay. At least I know what direction to point a mechanic. I told them not to go to the Acura dealer as even if they do diagnose it right the bills at the dealer are way to high to pay for a 13 year old car.

Tosh

You're welcome!
Since you're nearby, if you bring the relay (or the whole car) to me (in Santa Clara), I'll reflow the solder joints for you.

clinoak

Thanks, Tosh! I may consider that if the kids want to drive it down from Concord.

antsmuzic

Good morning Tosh, I have been searching high and low for answers regarding my 98 Acura CL. I saw the thread between you and a couple of others with problems and it looks as if you definitely know these cars well. Anyway, if you could provide me any info I would be grateful. I was driving and my car shut off. It started right away but would shut right back off. When the key is in the on position, there is also a fast repetitive clicking noise that comes from the center console and can be heard under the hood near but below the battery. The car seems to have plenty of electrical power and the battery is relatively new. Sometimes it will start -- run for a few minutes or few seconds and the clicking noise starts and it's off again. I changed the Main Relay and it is still messed up. If you have any ideas it would save me a great deal of time, money and headaches.

Tosh

Sorry to hear about your troubles, antsmuzic!
I'm no expert, but I've had an Acura since 1992, and I've tried to keep up on some of the common things that go wonky on these cars.
Sorry, I don't recognize those symptoms. Try starting a new thread in the First Gen CL section. The Helms manual for your model will have a correct troubleshooting sequence, so try to follow it.
When strange electrical things happen, I would start by checking every ground connector and ground wire. But as cars age, there could be all sorts of gremlins turning up... Good luck!