soopa

ummm... i still dont know why you people think the 8" sub produces any more bass then the woofers in our car...

ive had both cars... and the TL sound system is inferior to the CL. no doubt about it. not by much... but it certainly isnt BETTER in anyway... including bass levels.

s2ktaxi

The gearing is tall - if it had gearing closer to that of the NSX or even the RSX-S, the acceleration would be much better - though at the expense of some gas mileage - due to the porky 3400+ lbs.

vince

Close up shot of the center console. The new cupholder is under the little roll up door. Note the seat heater switches as well; the space where they used to be is now opened up for a larger bin.

vince

Here is where the foglights used to be. There are little covers there, which I guess rules out the brake ducting theory. The covers are flimsy though, they are ready to fall out so the dealer can install your fogs.

Paul

the new cup holders make the car look worst than a civic, is soo cheap

WebToker

OK, I am sorry but that looks like complete shit. Why did they even bother putting that cover on?

JSuppi

What are those two butons behind the e-brake?

provench

Any chance this is a side effect of some final fit and finish issues since this is such and early run of the car? I sure hope so ...

joeandcarol2

The torque to the drive wheel depends on not just the final drive ratio but on the product of that ratio and the gear ratio. This overall ratio for both the manual and automatic are;

Man. Auto
1 12.92 11.35
2 8.14 6.87
3 5.59 4.52
4 4.11 2.89
5 3.21 2.08
6 2.53

As you can see the auto has taller gearing in all gears. The manual has both gearing advantage and less drivetrain drag. It will be no contest. The manual taller final drive ratio is compensated for by shorter gear ratios.

WebToker

There is a good chance you're right. I can't imagine they would let that go out the door.

cnatra

I agree on the cupholder BUT


CL-S still has the BEST seats!!!!!!

cnatra

The 6spd is great for those who want it , the HLSD is definitely a plus for those guys!

I'm about 99% sure I'll add the new tail lights , I've always preferred amber turn signals at all four corners.

I do think the blacked out headlights look good on some colors & not others. Door handles no biggie.

The big plastic Acura symbol on the steering wheel cover looks
cheesy, I prefer the embossed one on current cars, more subtle.

I think in spite of the fact that the current CL-S rims are vulnerable to scrapes these look CooL! The new rims look
Boring!

The new cup holder looks cheap.

I may add the body color grill surround.

The painted "aluminum" trim , have to see it in person.

I prefer the current "pleated faux-leather" door panels.

I'm glad I have the 2 stage bun warmers!

WHY no REAL driving lights ????????

vuduvida

Going straight by those numbers, the manual looks better but that comparison isn't taking into consideration the effects of the torque converter in the automatic. The converter multiplies the amount of torque (but some of that increase is lost in the inefficiency inherent to an automatic) so a comparison like that really isn't apples to apples.

Another person earlier didn't like the gear ratios in the manual as compared to other Acura models. Here's a comparison of the CL's gear ratios to the NSX and the RSX-S (&Porsche) for manual trannies only. The second number after the gears is the gear's ratio multiplied by the final drive ratio. (I only did it for 1st, 2nd and 6th cause I'm lazy.) Generally speaking, the higher number results in a higher multiplication factor for torque delivered to the wheels but at the expense of higher engine RPMs and resulting poorer gas mileage, engine wear, noise, etc (as most people already know). This shows that the CL has a slightly higher ratio for the first couple gears compared to the NSX but is lower than the RSX (which makes sense since it has a smaller engine that needs a higher multiplier).

On rear-wheel drive cars, a common mod is to swap out the final drive gear with one of a higher numeric ratio for faster acceleration but that would probably be a tougher mod on a front-wheel drive car since the tranny would probably need to be pulled to get to the gear.

I'm no expert on this stuff so everybody is welcome to chime in.

CL
1st 3.933 12.924
2nd 2.478 8.143
3rd 1.700
4th 1.250
5th 0.976
6th 0.771 2.534
Final Drive: 3.286

NSX
1st 3.066 12.454
2nd 1.956 7.945
3rd 1.428
4th 1.125
5th 0.914
6th 0.717 2.912
Final Drive: 4.062

RSX-S
1st 3.266 14.331
2nd 2.130 9.346
3rd 1.517
4th 1.147
5th 0.921
6th 0.738 3.238
Final Drive: 4.388

For comparative purposes, using #'s posted earlier by JZ:
Porsche 911 Ruf Turbo
1st 3.82 13.141
2nd 2.05 7.052
3rd 1.41
4th 1.12
5th 0.92
6th 0.75 2.580
Final Drive: 3.44

JRock

Because they clearly don't listen to us.. just like about our wheels that stick out too far (and therefore scratch easily.) Look at the new CL-P wheels - they stick out mad far too. It's a VERY simple thing to tell the guy designing wheels to make sure they stay inside the tire-width.

All the changes made were things they noticed about other competitors' cars or just in-house ideas. If you think they actually read anything we talk about and actually change stuff about it, you're wrong.

If they did listen they'd have put in wider tires, wheels that don't stick out, and would have replaced broken trannies with re-built ones that actually fix the problem.

You can keep claiming they listen to us because they did a bunch of things to the '03 that are new and different, but I'd bet you a lot of money it's all in-house ideas, ideas ported over from Japanese models, or their own brilliant creations (like removing the foglights entirely).

vince

OK now, about those wheels:

The new wheels don't stick out that much. As for the CL-P wheels, they stick out near the center, where the curb couldn't reach them.

JRock

(this was an edit that didn't make it in the last message):

oh, and before someone tells me I'm whining or bitching or whatever - I'm not. I'm very happy with my car right now, and I love driving it. I just get tired of reading posts by dreamers who get all hopped up on happiness thinking Acura turned a listening ear to us when it's clear these changes had nothing to do with us (except perhaps the idea of a six-speed, but even that is something everyone at the dealerships talks about and was probably decided upon when they looked at how well 6speed Maximas, etc, sell.)

Sypher

Damn, took me more than an hour to read through this stuff.

All I gotta say is I'm impressed with the gear ratios, but I'm more interested in what parts I can steal for my car. I'm still holding out hope for nice fog lights and *possibly* new body trim. I'll keep my taillights, think about the tinted or maybe just cleared headlights, and keep my beautiful chrome door handles and grille trim. I need to see the tinted lights on black...

JRock

True, good point!

Once again something they most likely corrected without ever knowing of the existance of this site. I just find it hilarious that people see changes in the new model and automatically think it's because Acura is reading this board or cares about the customers - all the changes made are just normal changes that can be seen in competing products. My point is if Acura actually cared and was reading our comments like some people here think, they would make changes that aren't so expected - like fixing important things like the tranny problem, the poor choice of wheel width that limits our tire selection, or the other complaints people here have about certain faulty parts or whatever.

IWuvMyCL-S

AMEN to that!!

I read a lot of posts of people not happy with their cars.
Maybe I'm coming from too low end (Honda Civic SI), but I my CL-S. Everybody who rides in it loves it. I can kick rice rocket Civics, and my buddy's BMW 328is convertible. And for the money paid.... what else can you get? Bottom of the line BMW? MB C230 (with NO options??) No thanks, gimme my CL-s!

For the price paid, this car KICKS ASS

WebToker

Amen brother!

Sypher

Um... Yea... Steal as in taking the parts from one model year and putting them on another, not steal as in find an unsuspecting '03 in a dark alley...

Now I'm just happy I got quoted.

WebToker

I feel ya, I am happy I can swap what I like and my car wont be the old CL for at least a few more years

KavexTrax

J, you need more fiber in your diet :P

Did you see how different the rotors were? That could be
the solution to the '01 warping issues.

And about the tires, if they had a large contract with Michellin ever since '00 (for '01 model) for them to supply CL and TL tires till
say '04/'05, would they be able to just dump it after 2 years?
And along with that idea, what if they made up their minds beforehand that major changes weren't due for the TL and CL until '04/'05...sticking to their gameplan/roadmap no?
And if they change too much, owners who recently made a purchase will be unhappy.

wait, no, current owners are already unhappy

Rod

The cupholder lid in the center does look very cheap now that I saw the close-ups, but that's very minor since you can't tell how cheap it is if you just keep it open. I also think that they should've gone with unperforated leather for the door panels and hand brake.

pwille

Well said, KavexTrax. I think Acura is in a lose-lose situation in making everyone happy. If they made any major changes, our cars won't be worth anything. If they don't change enough, those who have been waiting so patiently for something new have to wait longer.

2004 we all know will be the big change in the TL (thank you to whomever clarified that for me earlier). the added features and mods to the 03 CL are good in my opinion. Yes, i would like more, like the real fogs, more HP, etc. But, for now, I am happy.

Now, if only they started taking orders for 04/05 CL's.

s2ktaxi

This really is not a big deal - unless you were driving an SUV, you'd scratch any wheel if you went up against a curb, whether the tire stuck out more than the wheel or not...

It's like saying, the front spoiler is too low - they should make it higher so that it would clear more curbs and would not get scraped...

Vector02

every time i see the new headlights, I think......Empala! Good to see the 6 speed though.....

iatacs19

looks good except for the cup holder.
excellent pics at the show thanks!

JRock

(For the sake of those who have put in orders for '03s, I hope not too.)

cusdaddy

I think it's alright. Definitely not worth trading my 01 in for even though it does have a 6-speed. I was hoping for more HP and a better suspension/tires, but now I think the 350z may be my next car. This car doesn't know what it wants. I liked the 01 CL because it was classy. The new one seems to try to emulate a german car which it isn't.

It seems Acura made some changes truly to be real improvements and to give the car a "sportier" appearance, but it seems as if other changes were made purely to make the car seem a little different from the 01-02.

I think Acura was looking to make some changes only to spark new interest in the car while not making any costly sheetmetal changes. I think body colored trim and removal of fog lights and new exhaust tips were changed only to spark new interest, but once people get over the novelty of something new, they will realize it was better on the older model.

Overall, I think the car has an identity crisis more than ever before. In some ways, it is still a nice sport/luxury cruiser like my 01, but now it is trying to be part german, part RSX and part rice.

6-speed is nice, but not enough to get my money again. Congrats on all those that ordered one though!

dustbuster4

I've been waiting for the arrival of the '03 model to purchase my first 2nd gen (I'll payoff the wife's Honda in March). I really wanted the 6-speed!

After carefully reading this thread (seeing the photos and the reactions of the board members), I just may wait to see what the '04 model brings.

I must say that I'm not very impressed with some of the "improvements". I don't think that the 6-speed alone will get me to part with $30K+ (I wasn't planning to trade in the 1st gen.--I absolutely love it)!

I'm still very excited about the possibility of owning a CL-S 6-speed, but I'm not completely sold on the "new" model.

Red Rider

You go Boy !!!

Red Rider

Anybody with a San Marino Red looking to go with the body colored grill ? I kinda like the thought and was wondering what others thought about it.

s2ktaxi

We are all too quick to judge... I suggest reserving decisions till you actually get to drive one...

JZ

Yes, once again I hear the dreaded words "identity crisis", which this model has had right from the beginning.

Also, to agree with another post, these changes are not going to do much for sales at this point. Those who REALLY wanted the car bought the 01 or 02 already and these changes will not induce most to trade for the 03. Plus, now that most of the real fanatics who wanted the car already have the car (including all thsoe fanatics who might have really wanted a 6 speed in the first place) means that there will be very few "fanatical" people left out there who want a manual and are going to go for the the 6 speed.

Saddest thing I ever read about the CL today was in Consumer Reports (Yes, Comsumer Reports! ). CONSUMER REPORTS said that the CL did not feel very "Sporty". What a SLAM by dudes who review diswashers and washing machines!!!!!

provench

Gonna have to disagree with you there ... there are many folks that would not consider the CLS unless it came with a 6 speed (a lot of 330Ci folks will start to really consider the 10K extra is my bet). In addition, this is looking like about a .5 second faster 0-60 car and one that will have power better at hand given the tighter gear ratios. In my opinion if it turns out to be a half second faster to 60 that will be percievable ... I will let you know the best I can for sure when mine comes in

I just think Acura will not break any new records as the looks of the car is basically the same, but to say that all the car fanatics already have an 01 CLS with SS ?? Doubt that ...

tunkz

IMHO, manual transmission is not what CL-S desperately need. It needs a RWD. Now that they removes VSA, I am guessing there would be lots of horror stories about losing control of the car. The LSD is good, but it won't help control the car during most crucial time. Big hp is not always good, especially combined with FWD. I prefer a more balanced CL-S that can competes with the 3er and IS in the twisties.
I am guessing 0-60 in the 6.0s region for a good driver for stock CL-S with Manual transmission. Good enough to kick 330s in a drag race.
Just my .02cents

NOVAwhiteTypeS

I wonder what LSD will do for people who live where it snows.


I know VSA is great in the snow.

provench

Ok ... hmmm

Acura/Honda are not going to go RWD so they will lose customers if that is what you are waiting for. Acura/Honda believe FWD is the most well rounded and are no doubt working on refining a very efficient AWD system to bring to the market at the normal low Honda price point.

How many times has VSA come on for you? Are you sure you are not referring to traction control? We are not sure that traction control is gone ... my guess is that traction control is still present and combined with the LSD will help keep the car very safe. By the way - have you heard the horror stories on this board about when VSA came on for some folks? They about wrecked it ... BIG time.

I think using specific 0-60 numbers is dangerous, but if you look at the other threads on the calculated 0-60 times .5 sec faster seems very real. So if you use the lowest 6.2 achieved by mag on CLS with SS ... we are talking 5.7! Anyway < 6 ... fast enough for me

On handling ... agree ... but look at the Integra Type R ... you can make a FWD work in the twisties, just takes more engineering.

fast_daddy_car

Congrats to all the people looking for the 6 speed !!!
I am sure you will be very happy once you have the keys to your 2003's

I hope this is a trend that Acura is listening to the customers.
Once that AWD is released, I am upgrading!!!!!