goldcltype-s

with the races i watched these cars were bone stock
and the drivers were good, the guy that ran the z has a viper and the cl driver races down in seattle.
the problem was at the line the z got the jump,

but when a couple of rookies went at the cl won, which is more of a realistic everyday street race.

put some mods on and the gap will be wider.

Maximized needs to realize that it happens on the street and 8/10 times a cl will take a 350z most people buy a car and drive it.

these 350z is not a user friendly car as both club member pointed out.

scalbert

Well, it does end up being somewhat like the theoretical analysis to my surprise. Below are the gears and overall ratios:

Gear 350Z CL-S6
1 13.433 12.924
2 8.222 8.143
3 5.746 5.586
4 4.497 4.108
5 3.538 3.207
6 2.809 2.534

So the CL-S6 does have shorter gearing throughout, even turning higher revs in 6th on the highway. But due to the ability to keep it in a gear longer the speeds at the shifts are nearly the same. What this does is allow the better gearing to help with the torque deficit and a little with the weight.

But the kicker is in the wheel/tire combo. The CL-S6 has a circumference which is about 8.5% shorter. This will also impact the overall gearing further so honestly, it is not inconceivable for a modded CL-S6 to slightly out accelerate a stock 350Z 6-Speed. Well, that is until the first turn is encountered...

goldcltype-s

your right

a modded cl will take a 350z no problem.

scalbert

Well, actually there is a problem. This is assuming that there is no loss of traction for either. If launched properly the 350Z, with more torque, RWD and larger contact patch should imediately put some space between the CL-S6. It is a catch up game then. If the 350Z doesn't launch right and they get off the line at the same time then the CL-S6 might pull.

If the CL-S6 screws the launch there may be too much of a lead for it to catch up to the Z.

But we also need to remember the respective functions. The Track 350Z does not have that designation for the drag strip. It is meant for the road course and there is little to nothing the CL-S6 could do to keep up even if it can pull a little quick on the straights.

JRock

Calling me a ricer just proves you're the useless troll around here.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Can anyone, maybe Gabriel, run the dyno graphs, gearing, weights etc in the car-sim program and get us accelaeration times?

allmotor_2000

If you screw up the launch... its very difficult to catch up in the 1/4-mile to a equivalent car (even if it is slightly slower). It's like giving the guy 'the move' easy 2-3 tenths at least!!

FYI, 'the move' is when you line up even, but one car gets to leave first... and the other can leave immediately thereafter. You don't need someone to start the race - also in effect here is the reaction-time of the second driver (the one leaving last). A lot of muscle-cars used to be cocky and give me the move in the good 'ol days with the civic.... kinda pissed them off when they could never catch up

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Simulation runs:


Year 2003 2003
Make Nissan Acura
Model 350Z 3.2CL
Trim Track Type-S
Transmission 6-speed Manual 6-speed Manual
Theoretical Top Speed 157 mph 153 mph
Limited Top Speed
0-30 mph, Hard Launch 2 s 2.2 s
0-40 mph, Hard Launch 3.2 s 3.4 s
0-50 mph, Hard Launch 4.2 s 4.6 s
0-60 mph, Hard Launch 5.3 s 5.8 s
0-70 mph, Hard Launch 7.3 s 8.0 s
0-80 mph, Hard Launch 8.9 s 9.9 s
0-90 mph, Hard Launch 11.4 s 12.5 s
0-100 mph, Hard Launch 13.8 s 15.6 s
1/4 mile, Hard Launch 14.1 s @ 101.1 mph 14.6 s @ 97 mph
100 ft, Hard Launch 3 s 3.2 s
500 ft, Hard Launch 7.7 s 8.0 s
0-30 mph, Soft Launch 2.4 s 2.8 s
0-40 mph, Soft Launch 3.7 s 4.2 s
0-50 mph, Soft Launch 4.7 s 5.4 s
0-60 mph, Soft Launch 5.7 s 6.6 s
0-70 mph, Soft Launch 7.8 s 8.8 s
0-80 mph, Soft Launch 9.5 s 10.7 s
0-90 mph, Soft Launch 11.9 s 13.3 s
0-100 mph, Soft Launch 14.3 s 16.3 s
1/4 mile, Soft Launch 14.5 s @ 100.7 mph 15.2 s @ 96.4 mph
100 ft, Soft Launch 3.3 s 3.5 s
500 ft, Soft Launch 8.1 s 8.6 s
Parts & Accessories Nissan Cars Acura CL
Notes
Closest in Performance
(click to compare) 2001 Jaguar XKR
2000 Honda S2000
1997 BMW M3
2001 Audi S4 Quattro
1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS

scalbert

Interpreted...

Never mind, you fixed it...

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Now G35 Vs TL-S, (Simulation Runs):


Year 2003 2003
Make Acura Infiniti
Model 3.2TL G35
Trim Type-S
Transmission 5-speed Automatic 5-speed Automatic
Theoretical Top Speed 142 mph 149 mph
Limited Top Speed 140 mph 145 mph
0-30 mph, Hard Launch 2.6 s 2.3 s
0-40 mph, Hard Launch 3.5 s 3.2 s
0-50 mph, Hard Launch 5.2 s 4.8 s
0-60 mph, Hard Launch 6.8 s 6.2 s
0-70 mph, Hard Launch 8.5 s 8.5 s
0-80 mph, Hard Launch 11.3 s 10.7 s
0-90 mph, Hard Launch 14.2 s 13.2 s
0-100 mph, Hard Launch 17.4 s 16.2 s
1/4 mile, Hard Launch 15.3 s @ 93.5 mph 14.9 s @ 96 mph
100 ft, Hard Launch 3.4 s 3.1 s
500 ft, Hard Launch 8.4 s 8.1 s
0-30 mph, Soft Launch 2.7 s 2.6 s
0-40 mph, Soft Launch 3.6 s 3.4 s
0-50 mph, Soft Launch 5.3 s 5.1 s
0-60 mph, Soft Launch 6.9 s 6.4 s
0-70 mph, Soft Launch 8.6 s 8.7 s
0-80 mph, Soft Launch 11.4 s 10.9 s
0-90 mph, Soft Launch 14.3 s 13.3 s
0-100 mph, Soft Launch 17.5 s 16.4 s
1/4 mile, Soft Launch 15.4 s @ 93.5 mph 15.1 s @ 96.1 mph
100 ft, Soft Launch 3.4 s 3.4 s
500 ft, Soft Launch 8.5 s 8.4 s
Parts & Accessories Acura TL Series Infiniti Cars
Notes
Closest in Performance
(click to compare) 2001 BMW 330 i
2001 Jaguar S-Type 4.0
2002 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro
1989 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS Sedan (Maitreg's)
Track Times (Lap 1, Lap2)
Indianapolis Motor Speedway 1:33.1
1:25.1
Laguna Seca Raceway 2:28.6
2:23.5
Sebring International Race Circuit 4:06.2
4:00.5

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Per my cartest results here is what I got:

2003 NISSAN 350Z 6SPD
---------------------

CAR SPECIFICATIONS

Engine Displacement: 3498 cc.
Engine Location: FRONT
Engine Type: NORMAL
Engine Max Horsepower: 243 bhp
@: 6200 rpm
Engine Torque: 240 lb-ft
@: 4800 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.3 :1
Maximum engine speed: 6600 rpm
Start Engine Speed: 2200 rpm
with Clutch: DUMP
Transmission Type: MANUAL
Number of Gears: 6
Gear Ratio 1st: 3.79 :1
Gear Ratio 2nd: 2.32 :1
Gear Ratio 3rd: 1.62 :1
Gear Ratio 4th: 1.27 :1
Gear Ratio 5th: 1.00 :1
Gear Ratio 6th: 0.79 :1
Final drive ratio: 3.54 :1
Driving wheels: REAR
Car test weight: 3247 lb.
% weight on front wheels: 53 %
Wheelbase: 104.3 in.
Tire section width: 61 mm.
Tire circumference: ft.
Wheel diameter: 18 in.
Tire profile: 45 %
Coefficient of drag: 0.29
Frontal area: sq.ft.
Overall height: 51.9 in.
Overall width: 71.5 in.
Ground clearance: 51.9 in.

2003 NISSAN 350Z 6SPD
---------------------

GENERAL PARAMETERS

Air Temperature: 65 deg. F.
Barometric Pressure: 29.38 in. Hg.
Relative Humidity: 55 %
Elevation above Reference: 0 ft.
Headwind (+), Tailwind (-): 0 mph
Road Grade (+=Ascend, -=Descend): 0 %
Shift Time, Manual: 0.50 sec.
Shift Time, Auto: 0.30 sec.
Engage Time, Manual: 0.20 sec.
Engage Time, Auto: 0.10 sec.
Clutch Slip Max. Time, Manual: 5.00 sec.
Brake Release Time at Start, Auto: 0.10 sec.
Trans. Engage Method-Lin,Prog,Regr: R
Shift@O=Optim,R=Redline,D=Driver,P=Prog: O
Engine Free Decel Rate: 2000 rpm/sec
Engine Bog Down Decel Rate: 4000 rpm/sec
Engine Wheelspin Decel Rate, Manual: 500 rpm/sec
Engine Clutch Slip Decel Rate, Man.: 250 rpm/sec
Engine Trans. Slip Accel Rate, Auto: 750 rpm/sec
Engine Wheelspin Accel Rate, Auto: 250 rpm/sec
Max. Coefficient of Static Friction: 1.00
Max. Coefficient of Kinetic Friction: 0.85
Coefficient of Rolling Resistance: 0.013
Tire Expansion Factor: 0.020 %/mph
Hot Tire Pressure: 35 p.s.i.
Tire Tread to Section Width Ratio: 90.0 %
Wheel and Tire Weight: 45 lb.
Minimum Engine Speed: 700 rpm
Zero h.p. Engine Speed: 600 rpm
Turbo Start Speed: 3000 rpm
Max. Torque Conv. Slack Until, Auto: 2000 rpm
Low Max. Brake Torque Speed, Auto: 2000 rpm
Time Increment: 0.05 sec.
Start Time after Car Moves: 1.00 ft.
Mechanical Losses-Auxiliaries: 2.00 %
Mechanical Losses-Manual Trans.: 6.00 %
Mechanical Losses-Auto Trans.: 8.00 %
Mechanical Losses-Differential: 4.00 %
Mechanical Losses-Axles & Shafts: 5.00 %
Mechanical Losses-Torque Converter: 3.00 %
Max. Clutch Slip Losses, Manual: 10.00 %
Max. Trans. Slip Losses, Auto: 15.00 %
Max. Torq. Conv. Torque Multiplier: 2.25
Effective Engine Radius: 3.0 in.
Drive Shaft Radius: 1.0 in.
Center of Gravity from bottom: 30.0 %
Graphics Aspect Ratio (EGA): 0.75
Graphics Aspect Ratio (VGA): 1.00
Sound Effects (Y=Yes, N=No): Y

2003 NISSAN 350Z 6SPD
---------------------

STANDING START ACCELERATION RESULTS

Starting vehicle speed: 0 mph
Starting engine speed: 2200 rpm
Starting gear: 1st

Optimum Shift Points:
1st 6600 rpm @ 30 mph
2nd 6600 rpm @ 49 mph
3rd 6410 rpm @ 68 mph
4th 6400 rpm @ 87 mph
5th 6400 rpm @ 111 mph

Time to Speed:
0- 30 mph............ 1.6 sec.
0- 40 mph............ 3.0 sec.
0- 50 mph............ 4.6 sec.
0- 60 mph............ 5.7 sec.
0- 70 mph............ 7.7 sec.
0- 80 mph............ 9.3 sec.
0- 90 mph............ 11.7 sec.
0-100 mph............ 13.7 sec.

Time to Distance:
0- 100 ft............ 2.9 sec.
0- 500 ft............ 7.7 sec.
0-1320 ft.(1/4 mile). 14.1 sec.
@ 102.1 mph

Top Speed............. 145.7 mph


Maximized

Per your simulations are you saying that the 350Z is slower around a roadcourse????

Maximized

Alright you win....you are the greatest.

scalbert

That wasn't my simulation, you would have had to see it originally; it was straight HTML...

You should know by my previous statements about the road course ability, that is the 350Z's realm...

Maximized

Yea the Z should do well on a roadcourse. Cant wait to see one at the track.

CLUofI

those numbers are not right, 6600 rpm in first will put you at 38mph, not 30 and 62mph after second.
Optimum Shift Points:
1st 6600 rpm @ 30 mph
2nd 6600 rpm @ 49 mph
3rd 6410 rpm @ 68 mph
4th 6400 rpm @ 87 mph
5th 6400 rpm @ 111 mph

Punk em all 733

It seems like the boys at my350.com, don't believe this little race.


What's that I hear......link please....sure thing...


http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...threadid=11048

enjoy!


Some of those guys over there remind me of the utmost ignorant one...Russ

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Umm what? Ignorant? What the hell was that for?

Punk em all 733

You wouldn't understand, now I suggest you go defend the "high and mighty" cl-s.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Why, are you upset that my car was just as quick as a pullied GTP? Talk to DROD, he saw the videos. All of the videos.

allmotor_2000

Maybe we need to setup a 'friendly' heads-up race against a 6spd Z!!

I'm up for it!!!

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Btw punk...for your info since you posted on the 350z side, that no way a cl-s can hit 14.3 with just headers...here ya go:

Nah its just not really possible.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=84995

Proven...

Oh yea, what about a 2k2 Auto Maxima hitting 13.9? WOW! Or a 6spd Maxima with a few mods hitting 13.8?! Just for comparison....

Punk em all 733

Of course an Auto Maxima can hit 13.9 with enough mods, and a 6 speed Maxima are 14.3-14.5 sec cars. A few mods SHOULD get them a 13.8.



Well DROD said that you won one...barely, and you lost the one, after the guy tightened his belt, by a bit also.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

13.9 with only intake and drag radials auto

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Nope he is talking about the races we did before he fixed the belt. (Which he edged me on the 1st run but if you watch the video, I edged him back and then we both let off. 2nd run I left him, 1 car~. ) The ones after he fixed the belt we did on a roll and a few on a stop he wasnt around but he knows the guy. We did 5 rolls and we were dead even all the way to 90. On a stop depending who had the better launch won.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...577#post117577

350z, CL-S can't hang period per them.. 5 cars by 100 guranteeed. lol

allmotor_2000

FIVE (5) car lengths? What the hell are they smoking? I just don't comprehend certain folks!

dopeassCLS

Link doesn't work

1SICKLEX

I believe him. The 350Z weighs too damn much for a sports car, 3300 lbs, as much as an IS 300. The magazine are getting 0-60 in 5.6 and 5.7 seconds in the 0-60 and 14.3 in the 1/4, fast as my 3800 lbs GS 400. So an automatic 350Z is a slow dog for a sports car. Manual is okay, not overbearing. I believe you killed him.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

They deleted the thread after some stang over started a bunch of crap.

sidemarker

this thread is making me sick

its one thing to talk about beating maximas or altimas but the Z?? come on people use a little common sense. only time will tell what the true outcome of the cl vs Z. my money is on the Z

sidemarker

av2

I see this story as a true race. The 350Z is really not that much faster than a 6 speed CL Type S. Given the fact the new Z is around 0.4 to 0.6 sec faster than a CL Type S to a 1/4 mile. If the driver of the Z didn't launch right or shift fast enough or worst yet miss a shift, a CL S can take it up to 70 or 80 mph.

cusdaddy

AllMotor has a 13 second CLS... I have yet to see a Z run in the 13's stock. I am sure there will be plenty eventually, but this story is not hard to believe at all.

Great kill.. Keep them coming

scalbert

Please clarify the statements based on actual facts and not the basic "one cars has X and the other car has Y"??

However, if someone stated they ran a Z in a road course I would be reluctant to believe it.

But this was about a simple acceleration test with a modded CL against a stock Z. In this case the slight weight advantage might be offset by the gearing and rev advantage to the CL. So when not looking at it from a simplistic manner then the potential is there.