Aysle

Ok I know you are supposed to use Premium (92 here) for normal driving. But I am wondering if using 100 or 104 for regular use will cause any engine problems? Will I see any performance boost?

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01 CL-S w/Navi - Black/Ebony
Alpine MRV-1507 V12 Amp - 2x Alpine 12" Type R - Custom Enclosure
Escort Passport 8500

Tom2

Using a higher than recommended octane will not give you any performance advantages. It will not cause any engine problems either.

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dead CL-S and M3

Nashua_Night_Hawk

From what I read, 104 Octane or anyting higher than the reqired 91 Octane does not boost power. The higher octane is only required to stop any pre-ignition (detontation)of the compressed gas in High Performance engine like what we have in CLS.

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S, NAV.
- 3M clear bra, by Stonguard (full front bumper, and side mirrors, and partial hood)
- Acura Spoiler, Moonroof visor
- Splash guards, Winter mats, Trunk liner
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator
- HELMS Service Manual
- PIAA 19169 road lamps
- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI
- 04/13/01: 235/40/18 NITTO 555 on 18x7.5, +45 offset, Koing Imagine in Silver with wheels locks

Aysle

Tom, sometimes when reading people talking about going to the track they say they use 100 or 104. Does it do anything for them? Or is it just some myth?

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01 CL-S w/Navi - Black/Ebony
Alpine MRV-1507 V12 Amp - 2x Alpine 12" Type R - Custom Enclosure
Escort Passport 8500

Tom2

If the car in question is not modified, then a high octane fuel will not make them go faster.

But a modified car may be capable of taking advantage of a high octane fuel, and go quite a bit faster.



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dead CL-S and M3

EricL

Will 100 octane improve your performance in some conditions -- I tried the 100 octane in Santa Monica on 4 different occasions. I never GTECH'd the car, but me, a friend, and my wife notice power increases.

So, can I prove it -- no.

I will say this. Before the headers and CAI etc. I had the Toyos. I had a hard time breaking them loose on good road surfaces. When I put in the 100 octane the quick rub increased quite a bit. So, I can't tell you if it was 2 hp, 3 hp, or whatever.

Our cars have knock/ping sensors, they only move a few degrees, so it’s not like your going to launch to the moon or something. But I tested the fuel on 3 different occasions and the times that I put in enough to get over 96 octane, I did notice a little bit more pull off the line and in general.

Some of the other members did report tests at the track (before and after with 92 and 100) -- they got better results (lower times with the 100 octane).


So, try some yourself, see if it works for you. The other issue is the current use of "winter additives" in the CAL fuel, so that may be a factor. I don't know about that part of it.

If I was going to the track for money, I would put in the 100 octane *and* I like to put some in from time-to-time, but its just to expensive for day-to-day usage. It's expensive for driving around.

BTW -- you can get a list of 76 stations that carry the 100 octane (I didn't use the 76 fuel) from their web site).




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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

Tom2

Eric,

Knock sensor only retard timing, never advance it.....

Using the "seat of your pants" as an estimate is obviously not the most reliable way to determine if your car was making more power.

My car "feels" different from day to day, even on the same tank of gas. Temp/hum/wind direction etc. all play a role.

Tire spin? My CL-S would spin 'em sometimes and other times, not at all. I think that had more to do with the road surface than anything else.



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dead CL-S and M3

EricL

Tom, I never said the sensors advance timing. I believe that all of them look for an acoustic signature and reduce the timing accordingly. They only work over a few degree range. My assertion is based on the sensors being slightly retarded (not advanced) due to the "gas". Without getting a hardware debugger or emulator in for the ECU/PGM, it would be hard to "prove" that they are or are not being retarded with the current batch of California gas. We (in Cal.) have some pretty nasty winter gas. So I will take my experience over yours in this matter.

(A few degrees of advance in the right part of the curve is worth a few HP. I used to have my distributors re-curved, so I watched the dynos runs.)



Yes, I agree -- this can fall into the "placebo" effect.
My father, an MD -- now passed away -- was a father and a dear friend to me; he taught me as much as possible about the "placebo" effect (a favorite topic of his). He also rebuilt and raced airplanes and cars. So, I never trust anything until I have "challenged it" at least 3 times. I did the test in the exact same location every time! (I don't have stock in any oil companies or refineries at the moment, so why should I lie.) As I mentioned, some of the other members (in california) reported lowered 1/4 mile times in the CL with the 100 octane gas.



Yes, I actually suggested (along with others) to post time info with temp/baro/gas load/passenger load/etc -- trying to use good scientific method. (Theory and practical methods go together -- one is silly without the other -- IMO.) I notice the difference in performance between cold days and hot days. Our car performs much better in the cold. I even have a post from a while back with some calcs to compute increase air density with lowered temps.



I compared the tire spins in the same location. There is a dividing line in front of my place that divines county "boundaries." So I repeated the "spin" test with and without VSA at the same location on the street. (The Toyos will spin more (at least in accel.) as they heat up, so they need to get cooled down to control the experiment.)



Overall comments:

Yes, Tom I know that knock/ping sensors only retard timing and they only work over a few degrees.

However, I use the three-time rule. If I try something three times, and it "seems" to work, I go for it.

So, can I prove that the octane helps -- NO. But, I could tell when I pulled the "socks" off my velocity stacks. I'm not some idiot who loves to jack people off with bullsh*t tales. So, I didn't just try it once, I tried it 3 times (actually 4 times, but it didn't make a difference since I only put in a couple of gallons).

In all of the previous tests. I used the same street going uphill, with VSA off to test wheel spin with the Toyos. With the old setup *and* regular 92 Shell, I could barely get any wheel spin and even in VSA I would only get a quick flash.

In all 3 instances where I put in the 100 octane, I could noticeable break the front tires loose.

So, did I run an octane test at the Shell station to see if they are selling bogus gas -- no?

Did I check the exact composition in the petrol, no.

Did I notice a difference 3 times (in the same exact position, in similar temps -- yes.

So, would it be great to setup 2 cars and do a double-blind experiment -- yes. Did I -- no.

BTW -- I know the car feel different in different weather, temp, and humidity. I've been hot rodding cars for 20 years (yep, my year are showing) but I am quite skeptical and don't "go for stuff" easily

So, I hear what you have said, but I stand by my statement. There is nothing wrong with trying it out, and seeing if it makes any difference.

Finally, in all cases where I had the Toyos on the non-lightened wheels, they would only make a quick rub (no burn-outs -- period). The only time with the Toyos and stock setup that I got any wheel spin (ON THE EXACT SECTION OF ROAD) was with the increased octane.

So, if you don't believe me -- that’s ok.

I said I can't prove it. But, perhaps you could see that there is a possibility that the sensors do get "backed" off on some of the 92 octane in California. However, I am making the point, that there is no harm in trying *and* I did control "the experiment" as much as possible. Since you don't know me, you don't know that I allow all possibilities, but I also want some hard proof, if I hear something that sounds "flaky."


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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

[This message has been edited by EricL (edited 04-29-2001).]

Scorpius

Would using 89 hurt the engine? I read somewhere that using 89 would be OK, but the engine would switch to low performance mode.

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Red 3.2 CL-S.
"Life is too short not to be Italian." -Paul Sorvino
"How do you expect your date to turn over if your engine doesn't?" -Original
"Too many news programs have become public relations friendly" -Bill Oreilly
"People spend too much time finding other people to blame, too much energy finding excuses for not being what they are capable of being, and not enough energy putting themselves on the line, growing out of the past, and getting on with their lives." - J. Michael Straczynski
Proud member of "I didn't hit the curb like a dope and scratch my rims" club.

lead_sled_dog

With Bay Area gas prices running around $2.30 for 91/92 octane, I recently put in a tank of 89. My gas mileage actually improved from around 25+ to almost 27 mpg! I just put in another tank of 89. On the highway, there does not appear to be much difference, but when accelerating between say 30 to 70, it "seems" more sluggish than before. Overall, I do not believe it hurts the engine in any way to run 89 octane.



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Rex -
'01 CL Type S - Satin Silver, Navi, BBS RK
Lic: THX CBOE
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...770&p=36712116

Tom2

That's right, 89 octane fuel will not hurt your engine in any way.

Even high perfomance cars that are supposed to run a premium octane fuel are engineered to run well on lower octane fuel, mainly because of the fact that they know some owners will use the low grade stuff regardless of their recommendation.


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dead CL-S and M3

Scorpius

Really? I didn't know that.
I'll try a tank of 89 and see what happens. My co-worker with his Jetta runs 89, but they recommend 91.
What about cold weather? Could one get away with 87 in sub 30 degree F temperatures?

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Red 3.2 CL-S.
"Life is too short not to be Italian." -Paul Sorvino
"How do you expect your date to turn over if your engine doesn't?" -Original
"Too many news programs have become public relations friendly" -Bill Oreilly
"People spend too much time finding other people to blame, too much energy finding excuses for not being what they are capable of being, and not enough energy putting themselves on the line, growing out of the past, and getting on with their lives." - J. Michael Straczynski
Proud member of "I didn't hit the curb like a dope and scratch my rims" club.

Handruin

Since the day I bought mine I've been putting 93 in it and I've been happy. I have no mods and I don't expect my car to be any faster than 91 octane, but it gives me a small peace of mind knowing that I'm not putting the engine at any chance of pre-detonation. I realize the engine has sensors for this to reduce the timing, but why make it have to?

I feel the same as Tom2,
Some days I feel like my car performs 10x better than the day before. Coud be my imagination, but I wonder sometimes if gas stations rig the grades...

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2001 CL-S red, spoiler, mud guards, moon visor

Wyle E. Coyote

I agree as well. But, I tried 89 octane for a while and DID notice more hesitation when acellerating and some rought idling. Stick with the "recommended" 91 and above (I use 93 here in Texas).

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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type-S
Satin Silver/Ebony
No Navi/No Spoiler
Competch springs
35% tint
PIAA 19169 bulbs
K&N 33-2178 air filter

The Aviation Zone

[This message has been edited by MikeN (edited 04-29-2001).]

Crippen

In the winter, I used 87octane.
I figured that with the extreme cold weather we have, the chances of detonation/pinging/etc would be minimal -- and with the slippery/wet conditions, I never got a chance to open up the engine at all. I saw no point in putting 94 octane like i do in the summer.

I saw no difference at all with the 87octane.



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R.I.P Integra Type-R #932
Black 2001 CL-S
Comptech Headers

Scorpius

In that case I'll stick with 93.

------------------
Red 3.2 CL-S.
"Life is too short not to be Italian." -Paul Sorvino
"How do you expect your date to turn over if your engine doesn't?" -Original
"Too many news programs have become public relations friendly" -Bill Oreilly
"People spend too much time finding other people to blame, too much energy finding excuses for not being what they are capable of being, and not enough energy putting themselves on the line, growing out of the past, and getting on with their lives." - J. Michael Straczynski
Proud member of "I didn't hit the curb like a dope and scratch my rims" club.

Brians_CLS

As long as I can still get 93 here for $1.72 thats what I will use. Untill it gets to that $2 something range, then I might have to reconcider.

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Black/Black CL-S - 2-10" Subs

eclipse23

Sunoco 94 whenever I can find it, Amoco 93 any other time.

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01' Acura CL Type-S
Piaa 19169 Bulbs
Valentine1 Pig Detector
CompTech Exhaust
Xephyr Cold Air Intake
Founding Member of the NO SCRATCHED RIMS CLUB

01'Acura Integra GSR

Technique

I usually run around 93-96 octane gas. How? Simple, I add 100 octane gas (few gallons) every week. Since here in cali we only have 92 octane gas, I want at least 93-94 octane. Why do I do this? I dunno, cause I think our engines with a high 10.5:1 compression ratio need at least 93-94 to operate at peak performance at sustained high revs. The extra $10-20 a week it costs is totally worth it. I always fill up with pure 100 octane every weekend I go racing or canyon carving, usually about $50+ a fillup ($4/gallon)

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Silver CL-S w/ Navi, Spoiler, Wheel Locks, Trunk Tray, 19169, 9005
Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1-S Proxes on 17X8 SSR Competition Wheels (47.2 lbs lighter than stock wheel+tire setup)
Comptech Sways
G-Tech (Full tank of gas, 60F, VSA off, SS) - 5.94 seconds
V-1 Hardwired