ChodTheWacko

Yo

I was coming to work and as I was getting into my car I saw a Firebird (?) struggling (and failing) to get into a parking spot. We have some snow left over from yesterday's battering.

Then I found out another coworker totalled their 'stang on the way to work. So I'm thinking that I just don't feel like ever dealing with a RWD car. (Not in new york, anyway)

But in that case, is the CL the nicest car? And now that the CL is gone, who reigns supreme in the FWD category?

- Frank

(Post note: Actually, I forgot about AWD, but let's stick with FWD for now)

tmk70

I guess now that the CL is extinct....Accord V6 Coupe?

CLUofI

Audi cabrio, caddy, volvo, saab.

LiQiCE

The next closest thing to the Acura CL-S ... The Acura TL-S? ...

2004 is the year for a re-designed TL-S, so check that out when its released.

ferizzo

TLS all the way!

Shawn S

I think you hit on the EXACT reason that Acura needs to stick with FWD instead of following much of the competition to RWD.
Unless they continue with FWD or migrate some models to 4WD they’re gonna lose a TON of customers in the Snow Belt states.

There’s always someone who posts about RWD being fine in snow, but I bet I won’t get the same opinion from all the people I’ve passed stuck on the side of the roads this winter.

I think Honda & Acura make the finest FWD vehicles in many different price ranges from 15K up to 40 plus.

Shawn S

HellaWhat

TL/TLS all the way. Beside from the tranny, if I owned a TL I wouldn't have the lingering thought my car was gonna rattle aprat. The only lingering thought would be "WHY THE FUCK AM I DRIVING A 4-DOOR."

I am RobG

i would just like to say that my car sucks in the snow

Shawn S

Tires, buddy….TIRES !!!

GreenMonster

I know this isn't what you asked, but...

Most of the problems what people have w/ RWD is that they quite frankly don't know how to drive.

My CLS is my first FWD car, and while I'll admit that it handles alot better in the snow then any rwd car I've owned, I don't see what the big problem people have with RWD in the snow.

I've been driving RWD vehicles for 20 years in New England, and I've never been in a snow related accident, or been stuck to the point that I couldn't get myself out. My last job included a 65 mile commute (one way) to the boston area (braintree), where the office park was located up a huge hill. I'll admit that I drove up that hill sideways most of the time in the snow, but damn, it was fun

If you don't know how to drive a RWD car in snow, then yeah, it can be a bitch, but RWD ain't as bad as some people make it out to be.

I am RobG

stock tires shaun, STOCK

Shawn S

I know that.
I’m saying that stock “all season” tires are only going to do so much for you in snow.
Especially W – I – D – E rubber like ours that tends to “float” up on the snow.

They’re “OK” in the dry and “OK” in the snow, but they don’t excel in either condition.

The CL is fine starting and stopping in the snow with stock tires, but cornering at anything more then a crawl is a different story.

Shawn S

Shawn S

You’ve proven your point right there. You’ve had time to learn the limitations of RWD which is why you don’t crash.
FWD will give a novice or downright BAD driver a better chance in snow.

Someone like you or I with 20+ years of driving experience will really see the extra advantage of FWD and know what the car CAN and CANNOT do.

Shawn S

AcuraFan

IMHO: If you have to go all seasons...I've found Potenza RE950s to be great for traction in the snow and ice.

dbox

cadillac makes the nicest front drivers, i'd say

AcuraFan

When it comes to FWD cars, they just don't come any better than TL/CL. But after the CL fades away and you still need a coupe then I'd think Accord Coupe would be your bag.

darrinb

caddy sts or dts, or go w/ awd drive from audi or 4matic from benz


rwd w/ snow tires shouldnt be too bad

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

My fathers Q45t has an excellent traction control system but if their is snow on our driveway (pretty good incline) ...forget about it!! It is going to sit at the bottom of the driveway until somebody shovels it. Unfortunately, that somebody is always me.

Red-CL

TLS!!!

Sarlacc

Agreed I had those on my prelude and loved them. I plan on getting them again for my CL when my stocks are worn out. I had no troubles in te snow with them. but if you want pure winter tires get blizzaks.

GreenMonster

Ok, the best FWD car: 1970 Oldsmobile Toronado.

Here's a pic of a '66



1970 specs: 455ci 4bbl V8 - 375hp @ 4600rpm, 510 ft-lbs @ 3000rpm (talk about a torque-aholic)

more info here:

http://encyclopedia.classicoldsmobil...ado/index.html

My dad had a '70, and liked to "blow out the carbon" by driving the car "a little" over the speed limit every once and awhile.

1SICKLEX

The Caddy STS is the nicest FWD car. Exterior is blah but the interior is gorgous. They have made HUGE strides inside. The new ES 300 is a close second tied with the Audi A4. . Overall, Acura has the only and best overall FWD lineup.

This snow thing is getting outta hand. People have owned RWD cars in the snow-belt for ages, I mean, snow is snow. Get better tires and drive carefully. Put some sand in your trunk. It's not that bad.

AcuraFan

Are you speaking from experience Mr. Hotlanta?

When the weather is bad...you see more RWDs in the ditch. In MN, most RWD owners who have two cars usually have a FWD or AWD for the winter and those who don't just piss and moan throughout the winter (regardless of the tires). Sandbags help a little when it comes to getting stuck...but do nothing when it comes to turning and path control.

I'm very happy Acura is FWD. Cadillacs are getting better but I'm still an Acrua man.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

i like the way the Seville looks. And i thought the Elderado was pimp!! I almost bought one!

Beelzebub

Volvo C70

1killercls

all audis are 4wd.

GOOSE

No, they're not, especially the new Cabrio. Quattro was an option on the older model A4 and the current A6. I'd say that half of the Audis I see are FWD only, including the '99 A4 2.8 that we have.

SiGGy

Your very biased in this area Shawn. The CLS handles like crap in the snow /w stock tires. Guess what? A RWD car handles good too with snow tires.

Since I grew up in Chicago with all RWD cars ranging from Mustang, Cougar, Jeep, Camaros. I don't agree with you at all.

May it be your reasoning to purchase a FWD car. Maybe your just not good at driving a RWD car in the snow. Both FWD and RWD have their drawbacks.

I also see many SUVS off in ditches, so what does that mean? They should get FWD instead of 4WD or AWD.

It just takes patience to drive in bad weather RWD, or FWD. Period.

1SICKLEX

Yup. I've driven every time there was a snow storm here. Guess what, in the FWD ES 300 MANUAL, it sucks. In the RWD SC 400 it sucked and in the GS it sucked. They all sucked. I drove slowly and got where I needed to go.

I got stuck in the ES going up a hill, the car kept sliding backwards (60 series tires).

I did get stuck in the GS once but DUH, it was snowing (I dunno 6 inches) I got 40 series front and 35 series rear tires and was going uphill on an exit ramp. I did notice the cars that made it up were a combo of RWD and FWD vehicles (which leads me to believe it was my tires).

I've slid in the SC 400 (55 series tires) without VSC and all thos gizmos, basically I dropped the shifter into 2 and it finally caught some traction. I have slid in the GS and with VSC, it saved the car (and me) a couple of times but it REALLY meant I was driving too, too fast in the snow.

Ice is worse. It don't matter what you drive.

Audi's have Quattro as an option.

I am not saying FWD does not have it's benefits in the snow. But for me to buy a car for that sole reason means I should live in Alaska where it snows year round.

Doc.Booty

I agree with the comment about the stock tires in snow being shitty - i slide around show-covered turns if i do anything over 5.

AcuraFan

In high school I had a Cougar with decent snow tires (I can't remember the exact tire) and sandbags in the trunk ...and in the winter, even when it was plowed, I would have THE WORST time getting up my parent's steep driveway. I would have to pull into the garage to get a start then drive backwards up the driveway just to get traction. After that I had a POS Sentra with worn tires and a Saturn with stock tires and they never had a problem getting up that driveway.
Besides, getting snow in the south ever couple years is one thing...no one knows how to drive in snow down there so it's a mix of those who drive super cautious and those who end up in the ditch (regardless of drive tires). But when you live in a state that generally has snow half the year, driving in snow becomes second nature. That's when you start seeing RWD related mishaps.
I'm not saying FWD or AWD are impervious to accidents or the ditch...it just doesn't happen as often. I know someone on the MN Highway Patrol...he said flat out, traction goes in this order (obviously) 1. AWD 2. FWD 3. RWD...and he has the accident reports to prove it.

Bulldog01

In high school, I had a '90 Mazda 323 5-Speed, and my step-mother used to take it whever it would snow, cuz her '87 Volvo 740 Turbo (RWD, Auto) was too damn light...even with sand and cement in the trunk. That Mazda was one of the butt-ugliest cars ever, but it was perfect in the shit MA winters.

Sdog2012

My dad has a new ES300 and it holds up pretty nice in the snow, he lost control the other day though on his way to work and nearly got railed by an RX300 lexus.. My mom has an 02 volvo cross country wagon and its incredible in snow, i was ripping it around the other day when we got a few new inches and i couldnt believe how well it stuck to the road.

Maximized

Why does everyone think RWD is hard to drive in the snow. IMO it is actually better in the now that FWD. Why? Because when you lose traction on a FWD car you also lose your abilities to steer. In a RWD car, you can steer and apply throttle to make corrections. I learned to drive in RWD cars, so maybe I am used to them.

In general, I think that everyone needs to slow down a bit more when it snows and leave a lot of distance between you and the car in front of you.


As for the nicest FWD car, that would be the Cadillac STS hands down.

AcuraFan

If you lose turning traction on a front wheel drive car (the tires you use to turn) then you lose turning traction on those same tires regardless of where the power's going. And you can keep patting yourself on the back all you want about learning to drive RWD. That's great...who here hasn't. Like I said, my first car was a Cougar...and I never got into an accident with it...but it just sucked in the snow, period...and our trucks were in perminant 4wd in the winter because they sucked in the snow.

You can talk all you want about slowing down and being cautious when you live in an area that gets snow and freezing rain once in a great moon. But in the north, it's constant (well, except this year) snow for 5 months out of the year. If one were to drive all inter here like you would in the south with snow you would cause accidents, not avoid them. People get used to driving in snow when they are surrounded by it so much...I don't think I've heard any statistics that say there are more weather related accidents in the north. Sdog, you're from Mpls, right? Have you heard of any statistics like that?

Ok...now I'm out of breathe....
Well, anyway RWD is fine in the summer. I hope to own an M3 soon. I'll just never own a RWD as my primary car. That's why I'm glad Acura is around.

cusdaddy

RWD is not too bad with a set of snow tires and some sand bags in the back.

I live in Danbury CT, which gets a lot of snow, but getting around Danbury consists of I-84, which is always plowed no matter what, so as long as you stick to the main roads, you usually are fine no matter what you drive.

And most of the autos I see in ditches are SUV's who think that AWD/4WD makes them invincible.

You just have to take it slow and be careful, no matter what you drive.

AcuraFan

It's "not bad" when you: Put on snow tires, add sand bags, and stick to main roads. Wonderful. So you need to add stuff to make it almost as safe as FWD on plowed roads. excuses...excuses. lol

And you're right, I see a lot of AWDs in the ditch. AWD gives you no better path control than front but, because people can accelerate to unsafe speeds even faster than FWD, they think they're in control.

Maximized

I don't know if you noticed, but I live in the North. Comparing a Cougar to a modern RWD is useless. With the advent of TCS systems and Stability control RWD is now easier to drive for inexperienced drivers. Also, many of the RWD cars out are PERFORMANCE CARS which have summer tires, hence that is why they suck in snow. Get a set of winter tires or all-seasons and you will be fine.

As for slowing down in the snow, it's a no brainer. If you think that slowing down causes accidents then I dont know what to tell you. Increased speeds with less traction=longer braking distances=less chance to avoid an accident.

BTW...I couldnt comprehend what you were trying to say in your first sentence. If you lose traction on your drive wheels in a FWD car, you also lose your steering. If you lose traction on the drive wheels of a RWD car, you still have the ability to steer.

ChodTheWacko

I was watching a guy trying to steer in the snow that morning. I I concluded that it is hard to steer a RWD car for the same reason it is easier to pull rather than push a shopping cart in the snow.

In a FWD you steer the front, and the back will follow wherever the front goes, maybe with some fishtailing.

In a RWD you push the front, but the front may decide to slide off to the side and you can't do much about it. (sorta)

- Frank

cusdaddy

My CL sucked in the snow. It's probably due to the crappy and worn stock tires. I live in a slight incline and I got stuck 3 times this year. A freaking 325i went around me and made it up. If I kept the car, I was going to buy Blizzak's next winter anyway.

Yes, you have to prep a RWD car for it to work in the snow, but I'd rather do that for the few times a year it snows and enjoy the excellent balance and overall superior dry weather performance of RWD for 95% of the year.

FWD/AWD is good to have, but I personally prefer RWD. That's why there's a selection