droideka

OK, now you're talking out of your ass. Do you understand what a recall is? Potential Number of Units Affected: 14300 That's potential, NOT actual failures. The CL-S has the potential for every goddamn unit to be recalled for the tranny.

How many actual failures do you think it took for BMW to get off it's ass and do something? Five? Ten? Surely not the hundreds of transmissions that Acura is replacing now or in the process of replacing. They are back ordered 180 some odd units!!! If that's not a fucking wake up call, I don't know what is.

I guess someone will have to crash first before we see an Acura recall, huh? Too bad, because Honda could be doing something proactive now instead of reactive later. But, I guess they waste too much time crowing about their "record fucking sales months" to think about keeping their customers.

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: droideka ]

droideka

I can't send you an e-mail, yet. My tranny hasn't failed. My S.A. wants to replace it, but I'm holding out till it's gone and I use the long downtime as a reason to get out of the lease.

mrdeeno

180? that's it?!? 180?!

out of all the tl/tl-s and cl/cl-s they only have 180 on backorder!?!?

acura's 5spd has been around since '00 in hundreds of thousands of tl's and now tl-s's and cl-s', and according to you, only 180 on backorder?!?

i think that proves my theory even further...of hundreds of thousands of cars out htere, they only have 180 that need new trannies (not counting the handful that already got theirs). i think there would need to be at least 2000 new trannies (for all cl-s's, tl-s's and maybe -p's) for acura to acknowledge the problem as serious.

but out of 200,000+ cars, anything under 1000 isn't worth it to issue any kind of non-safety related recall.

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: mrdeeno ]

droideka

You know, I'll agree to disagree with you, but I'll close with this...

Acura Division set a new sales record of 165,983 vehicles, up 17.5 percent from last year and breaking the model year record set in 1989

That's ALL Acura vehicles. There are not "hundreds of thousands" of 260 HP CLs and TLs out there. Granted there have been tranny replacements on 2000 TLs, but I'm speaking strictly of the CL-S/TL-S. The tranny can't handle the horsepower. You can't drive this car (in VTEC land) like Acura so deftly portrays in all the Type S commercials without a nagging worry in the back of your mind that something is going to fuck up. The engine is BEAUTIFUL! I honestly believe that it's bullet-proof, but the transmission is a fucking joke! THAT is my goddamned problem!

Peace

Rod

Incorrect. I have no mods, other than Comptech springs, and my tranny went out. I also know that some of the other people whose trannies have given out were also stock.

Rod

Unfortunately, that's exactly what they're waiting for. Till then, we're basically screwed.

silverstarr

I have absolutely NO MODS on my car except the Polarg M-6 (if you'd call that a MOD) and the tranny went to shit. I don't drive my CL-S any harder than my cars in the past.

ssk0771

I have 2002 TL-S and I don't have a tranny problem but I have to agree with droideka. I visit lots of different forums like Lexus, Nissan,BMW & etc but I rarely see any posting with cars having tranny problems but when I visit CL or TL forums, there are posting about a tranny problem consistantly. I understand that there were lots of TL's & CL's sold but having tranny on back order for 6 month and car owners consistanly having problems should tell you that that there is definitly something wrong. Why do you think the trannys are on a 6 month backorder? Because there is an issue. It also seem like 5% is acceptable to some of you as margin of error in manufacturing but that is a high number. Even 2% is consider a high number. I here lots of great things about TL's & CL's but there are some issues that always arises and one of them is tranny. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE MY TL-S. Its a awesome car and best bang for the buck. I am also glad that I am NOT having problems with my tranny (7500mi on my car)but you have to respect droideka's position. He is upset and I would be too. I probably would be raising hell. Having a Tranny go out on a fairly new car is UNACCEPTABLE regardless what % margin of error is in manufacturing . At the same time, having parts that you need to fix the car on back order for 6 month is more of a reason why this issue is UNACCEPTABLE. Most people would prefer to drive their own car instead driving a loaner while their car is sitting in the shop waiting for the parts to arrive.
Also 6 month backorder on a parts is very very very UNREASONABLE & UNACCEPTABLE.

Sorry about the long post.

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: ssk0771 ]

mrdeeno

ok, let's be pessimistic and say that all 180 are for cl-s's. let's be more pessimistic and say they already fixed 50 bad trannies for a total of 230 defectives.

and lets be more pessimistic, and say they sold 15000 cl-s's out of 30k+ cl's (less than half).

this is only 1.5% of total cl-s's, not counting any tl-s's.

mrdeeno

i'm not saying droideka is wrong to be upset. i'm not saying 6 months is acceptable. i'm not saying 5% is acceptable (it could be higher, it probably is lower!). i'd be freakin' pissed too!

i'm not saying having a tranny go out on a fairly new car is acceptable (that's why we have a warranty thought!) but NO manufacturer, not toyota, not bmw, not benz, not hyundai, NONE, have 0% failure rates.

i agree with all of this!

what i disagree on is that this problem is widespread!

the sunroof wind visor resonance thing, that was widespread...over 50% of cars (probalby 90%) had it.

how is anything less than 10%, or more realistically, less than 5% (in JUST CL-S'S) widespread?

what i'm trying to convince droideka and others who have had tranny problems is to stop thinking with their emotion and anger and realize that this is statistically NOT widespread.

and i'm still convinced there aren't that many tranny problems just among the board...but when one user has 1 post that says, "i'm paranoid about my tranny", another post that says, "dealer says my tranny may be bad", another that says, "my tranny is 6 months backordered", and another that says, "my tranny DIED!", all by ONE user, sure it would seem often!

every board is different. one board will talk more about mods, another about races, another about "can my car compete w/ this", etc, etc. so this one has had a recent influx of tranny problems...how does that change anything?

a couple months ago, we'd think that we'd ALL have IMRC failures! that passed. now we're on trannies.

that's why i'm having people email me so i can put together a list without double counting. i've seen topics before like "post here if you have tranny probs" but it never works because no one posts jsut once, and people w/o tranny problems but are paranoid post too and totally messes up the count.

ssk0771

Agreed.

BTW how many emails did you get so far?

mrdeeno

got emails from 5 cl-s owners and 1 tl=s owner.

C.Z.

BBsAcuraRacing wrote:

>I havent seen anyone on here with NO MODS >and a tranny out??? Am I correct???

What do you think we're making this shit up????

I'm one...

Tranny gave at 12K. It's been in the shop locally since 9/11/01. There are 6 others cars in for service for the same proble at Ferman Acura in Tampa, FL.

If you don't consider this a problem, it's becuase it hasn't happened to you, yet. Go back and stick your head in the sand until then.

Amir

CL-S is a nice car, but it just comes down to what you like in the end, I could have had a CL-S when there wasnt a TL-S, but that's what i wanted...Shyne

2001SilverL

I think the 6-speed is going to make the
CL-S.

mrdeeno

please back this up with more than just 6 problems from your dealer.

when 90% of cars had the sunroof visor buffeting problem, that was a defect.

when your dealer gets 6 cars in for tranny problems, how is this a defect?

like my discussion with droideka before. if there are 260 dealerships, and each dealership had 10 defective trannies (i haven't heard of any dealership with 10 yet), then that's only 2600 bad trannies...out of what, 15000+ cl-s and tl-s's, out of 200,000+ tl/tls/cl/cls trannies? and my 2600 estimate is an OVERestimate considering i haven't heard from anyone saying their dealer had more than 10, and most even said it was their first occurence.

when it happens to 50% of cl-s's and tl-s's, or when acura confirms that they have a problem, i'm still convinced this is not widespread and go stick my head in the sand.

tankmonkey

sorry to hear about your tranny woes. I hope you get a speedy resolution one way or the other.

but I have a few questions for you: I've looked through my lease documentation (mine's through american honda finance) and I can't seem to find any language regarding early lease termination due to "long downtime" for repairs. perhaps your lease differs significantly, or you're planning to use a lemon-law approach?

why do you think you'll receive special consideration on your lease because of this problem? (i.e., do you think someone who financed this car would be able to return it to the bank without penalty because acura is slow to fix this problem?)

as far as I can tell (from my lease paperwork) the typical lessee's (and presumably your) options in this scenario (barring a run at the lemon law) would be:

1. sit tight for warranty repairs (and the long downtime associated, hopefully with a loaner and/or other compensation from acura)

2. buy out the lease and return the car (cash or trade-in, it's all about the same them at this point)

3. total the car for insurance purposes and walk away (assuming the required insurance coverage is in place and the lease includes gap protection).

I'm not saying you can't use this problem to get out of your lease, but I suspect you'll need some sweet talking to accomplish it. I just don't know if the "belligerent car owner" routine cuts it with the auto makers and dealers anymore.

a second question: I'm sure you've considered this, but I haven't seen mention of it yet. have you checked with another dealership regarding the back order? is it possible the quoted 6 month wait is some sort of a dealer-specific problem? (who knows, maybe they pissed off their regional acura rep and he's black-listed them or something or maybe they aren't following the proper protocol for handling this situation.)

just curious.

[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: tankmonkey ]

mackdaddy

I'm sticking with my original post.

STILL LOVE MY CAR.

If the freak'n transmission takes a shit, so be it. However, this will impact my overall view of buying another Honda product in the future.

But for now, I'm still love'n her everyday.

[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: mackdaddy ]

Jayhawk1

maybe i'll be sorry I've said this, but had the CLS for 1.5 years with over 21k on it. So far no tranny problems. Had the rotor problem, but resurfacing at 15k seems to have fixed it. Biggest problem with the car, in my opinion, are the tires--CLS should have never come with such a poor choice of tire for what the car was obviously set up to do. maybe the CLP should have them, but there are a lot better tire options for this car. overall, ive been really pleased with this car. very sorry to hear what seem to be a relatively large number of folks having the tranny problem---

droideka

I would be using the "beligerant owner", but with good reason. I've been to this dealer seven times with warranty problems since I bought the car. It's a lemon as far as I'm concerned and my S.A. would actually be willing to help me get out of the car. The service manager and I are on a first name basis and he'd probably just be happy to get rid of me.

OTOH, I do see where you are coming from, but there's no fucking way I'd make my lease payment on an Integra loaner for two months while getting my tranny replaced. Would you?

tankmonkey

hell no. I don't know what I'd do in this situation. (although option 3, above, would certainly cross my mind...)

it's good that you have a relationship with your s.a. because you'll prolly need it to resolve this favorably.

I know I'm rootin' for ya.

JRock

Great car inside and out.

Some mods are too expensive though (headers).

-J