typeR

this is johntypes' mod list....now if he could just tell us how it was done...




2001 Acura Type S
OPTIONS
Comptech headers and exhaust
AEM bypass
homemade iceman
Apex V-TEC controller
Full wood grain dash
Factory Spoiler
Stainless Steel Brakelines
Navigation
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
2 Fuel pressure guage 0-100 #
AEM pulleys
Bosch inline fuel pump 150#
factory pinstriping and mudflaps
royal purple synthetic oil
redline synthetic trans fluid
b&m trans cooler #70268
1/4 mile 14.48 @97.48
web page of car
www.hometown.aol.com/vittallo/index.html

Nashua_Night_Hawk

typeR

confused....it seems most here have concluded that a trans cooler on the cltype s was all but impossible...but john has one so...im hoping he'll share with us how its done...

JasonT

That's alot of fuel upgrades for a car that's not blown. Wonder how rich he is running?

JRock

Well those mods are the first step. Maybe next is a Comptech SC which he plans to run higher than stock boost.

Caddyİ

I was suppose to get mine put on this week, but it will probably
be next week before my Guy can get to it. I had some minor
"bumper damaged" that had to be repaired--and was--now I'm
just waiting on a new left-front light to come in. When that
happens, he's going to put in the T.Cooler. He told me he
talked to the service manager--a good ole boy type--and said
he thought it a good idea to put one on, and that it would NOT
void warranty.

Will keep you posted.

EricL

I would be more concerned about having the cooler come with a thermostatic control. I hope people realize that just trying to "fit" a given size to adjust the ATFs temp wont work too well with changing conditions (load, air flow, speed, grade, ambient temps, etc).

The current system is using the car's thermostat to heat and cool the ATF -- if someone is going to run a cooler, they should make sure it has a thermostat in it to control the temp. You can make ATF too cold, and it will cause problems (just like engine oil).

Caddyİ

I had Initially bought a Transsaver Plus from Hayden and the Guy who'd going to install mine said it was TOO big. He told me he's been putting them on Cars for over 20 years and sees their OBVIOUS Value, but that the Fluid can be too cold as well as too HOT.

I'll ask him about temp control gauge. Good idea.

EricL

Look, its not like a few degrees is going to kill the transmission lube... However, if your out driving in 20-degree temps at a very light load you could get the ATF down to some pretty cold temps if the car is going downhill at high speed.

It would help if someone knew who "brewed-up" the Honda ATF; I sure don't know who makes it.

Here is an excerpt (for your general info):

"WHY ATF WEARS OUT

An automatic transmission creates a lot of internal heat through friction: the friction of the fluid churning inside the torque converter, friction created when the clutch plates engage, and the normal friction created by gears and bearings carrying their loads.

It doesn't take long for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to heat up once the vehicle is in motion. Normal driving will raise fluid temperatures to 175 degrees F., which is the usual temperature range at which most fluids are designed to operate. If fluid temperatures can be held to 175 degrees F., ATF will last almost indefinitely -- say up to 100,000 miles. But if the fluid temperature goes much higher, the life of the fluid begins to plummet. The problem is even normal driving can push fluid temperatures well beyond safe limits. And once that happens, the trouble begins.

At elevated operating temperatures, ATF oxidizes, turns brown and takes on a smell like burnt toast. As heat destroys the fluid's lubricating qualities and friction characteristics, varnish begins to form on internal parts (such as the valve body) which interferes with the operation of the transmission. If the temperature gets above 250 degrees F., rubber seals begin to harden, which leads to leaks and pressure losses. At higher temperatures the transmission begins to slip, which only aggravates overheating even more. Eventually the clutches burn out and the transmission calls it quits. The only way to repair the damage now is with an overhaul -- a job which can easily run upwards of on a late model front-wheel drive car or minivan.

As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half!

At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up.

On most vehicles, the automatic transmission fluid is cooled by a small heat exchanger inside the bottom or end tank of the radiator. Hot ATF from the transmission circulates through a short loop of pipe and is thus "cooled." Cooling is a relative term here, however, because the radiator itself may be running at anywhere from 180 to 220 degrees F.!

Tests have shown that the typical original equipment oil cooler is marginal at best. ATF that enters the radiator cooler at 300 degrees F. leaves at 240 to 270 degrees F., which is only a 10 to 20% drop in temperature, and is nowhere good enough for extended fluid life.

Any number of things can push ATF temperatures beyond the system's ability to maintain safe limits: towing a trailer, mountain driving, driving at sustained high speeds during hot weather, stop-and-go driving in city traffic, "rocking" an automatic transmission from drive to reverse to free a tire from mud or snow, etc. Problems in the cooling system itself such as a low coolant level, a defective cooling fan, fan clutch, thermostat or water pump, an obstructed radiator, etc., will also diminish ATF cooling efficiency. In some cases, transmission overheating can even lead to engine coolant overheating! That's why there's a good demand for auxiliary add-on transmission coolers.
"


Our trannies have a temp sensor and it is currently "slaved" to the cooling system temp. It would have been nice to get the "average" temp inside the box via the current sensor...

If tranny temp is not an issue (in general), then why are there OBDII codes for transmission running too cold or too hot (I didn't say our car specifically)????

http://autorepair.about.com/library/ts/bl-obd-7.htm

Seach for the: Transmission "Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit Low Input" code and the one for the "Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit High Input"

The viscosity for some of the ATFs can change quite a bit between 20-degrees C and 100-degrees C, so what does this say for a transmission that has its fluid runing @ 0-degrees C (32-degrees F)???

BTW -- I would love to have a cooler too, but would want to insure that it provided a controlled temp range for the transmission (under all conditions).

Good luck, please keep us informed!

EricL

BTW -- as a note regarding the OBDII codes... I am making an assumption that the error code would not only refer to a broken sensor, but to an out-of-range condition that would be unexpected in during normal operation (not cold start)...

scalbert

Most Fluid temps in stock vehicles I have measured hit 200 - 210 F in traffic. During cruise situations they stay at round 180 F.

I have this one on order and it will be going in the center console:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=169&part=4992

The only problem will be hooking up the sending unit, it does have a 1/8" NPT fitting. Where that will fit in this transmission will be fun...

X3.2CLSX

hey scalbert....do you have a tranny cooler?? are you getting the tranny cooler? if so, let us know how it goes.

scalbert

No, Caddy and I have talked about it and he is going ahead with it. I'm going to watch the before temps and then put one in, and of course see what the affects are.

But as for installation, there is a certain way. It can definitely be done..

X3.2CLSX

cool man....let me know how it goes. I am very interested. Also, when you get the guage, take a pic of that too in your car. Does it glow in the dark too or does it light up? Thanks

scalbert

Very low key as it is going in the center arm rest. But the back plate will lite up for veiwing at night. Pics will be provided.

EricL

Some other tranny Q&A I’ve dug up (sorry no Honda info, but, here goes)


See the links to the oil and tranny coolers and especially to the oil and/or oil or ATF thermostat link…

---------- start of q/a -------------

To: gmcmotorhome@mailinglists.org
From: tom warner <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Tranny cooler

A tranny can incur damage if driven any distance at all running at 100 degrees. The tolerances are designed to run in its optimum temperature range of 160-200 degrees farenheit for optimum longevity.Under 160 degrees and over 200 degrees wear is accelerated.

I have seen two separate posts that say essentially: 1. the tranny needs the radiator to heat the tranny fluid in cold weather. Not true since in reality in cold weather very little fluid circulates thru the radiator from the engine block, the engine thermostat keeps the engine coolant circulating thru the engine block and the only heat the tranny gets is from the fluid circulating from the tranny thru the radiators own tranny cooler. In this case the radiator actually acts as a heat sync and attempts to cool down the tranny even more. 2. The thermostat is unreliable and can cause a problem of overheating the tranny. I dont believe this is true either. A tranny thermostat is no more unreliable than one in the engine.

I believe the ideal situation is for a separate thermostatically controlled, fan cooled, oil cooler for the tranny, thus decoupling the engine heat from interfering with the tranny cooling. The benefits are faster warm up to 160 degrees since the fluid ciruculates out of the tranny and directly back to the tranny pan without cooling until it reaches 180 degrees at which time it is redirected thru the tranny cooler. An additional benefit is the decreased resistance of the lines by eliminating the radiator cooler thus increasing the flow of coolant thru the tranny.
I am thinking of even installing larger cooler lines in/out of the tranny to the cooler for additional coolant flow and better cooling.

tom



To: gmcmotorhome@mailinglists.org
From: tom warner <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Tranny cooler

Manny this high temperature may be attibuted to the torque converters that come as standard equipment. To much slipping when pulling long grades. This is where I believe the switch pitch tranny with a lower stall speed torque converter and a large parallel thermostatically controlled tranny cooler will shine. When pulling long grades you are fighting two things, more fuel burned by the engine which translates to more heat to be removed by the radiator(and passed on to the tranny) and more heat generated by the tranny caused by slipping of the torque converter if the stall speed is not exceeded. Its a vicious cycle. In addition to many people do not gear down and keep the engine RPMs up, to let the tranny oil further cool it.

I am now thinking seriously of adding:

1. An auxiliary transmission filter Permacool 10678 (http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page25.html) , $28.99

2. Permacool Maxi-cool six pass oil/tranny cooler model 13311:
( http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page13.html ) $149.99.

3. Permacool remote oil thermostat model 1060 (http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page14.html) $38.99

I believe this setup will eliminate for the most part any tranny problems we now experience and keep the tranny temp close to the ideal 160-200 degrees F.

Tom

------------- end of q/a ----------------


Here is the link of interest: Permacool remote oil thermostat model 1060: http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page14.html) $38.99


"...


* For use with transmission coolers and engine coolers

Maintaining proper oil temperature is critical in today's sophisticated engines and automatic transmissions ..."

spiroh

I just talked to johntypes. The B&M cooler is mounted in front of the radaiator. We are going to meet up, and I'll take some pics.

Spiro

Caddyİ

I'm hoping to get mine in this week

spiroh

He also replaced the lines with SS braided ones. He told me fitment wasnt an issue, and he also told me he has the part # listed in his signature.

Spiro

typeR

how much you want to bet there's only coolant flowing through there not trans oil???

Caddyİ

Mines in the Shop, getting Light Replaced. He's suppose to tackle the Cooler Issue tommorrow.

Interesting to see what he comes up with !

EricL

Yes, with the B&M (using Viscosity to control "cooling") you asked the $1,000,000.00 question!

There is still the issue of how much the CLS trans hates the high viscosity (no warmer) during warm-up...

Caddyİ

Well Everyone ... The "Body Guy" came back and told me he saw NO where to attach a Tranny Cooler. Only way would be to find an "adapter" where the Fluid is actually flushed an put one on. He told me he even took it down to the Acura Dealer and Put 2 heads together--always better than one--and they could not figure out how to do it. So I guess my next question is: What Standard Adapter did our Friend who put one on find his ?

He told me if I can find the Adapter that will fit, he'll try again !

First one in 30 years he hasn't been able to figure out-- His words

scalbert

I'll raise the vehicle the next chance I get and will snap a few pics of how/where to do this.

Caddyİ

This is the 3rd Guy I've discussed this with. Everyone of them have told me the same thing.

Can't figure it out !

scalbert

From what I can see it is not easy. Particularly someone without the Helms manual. There are no visible lines in the conventional way.