Tom2

Damn, you guys are bringing back an OLD thread.....

This thread was started more than a year ago.

tankmonkey

it's still within the statute of limitations, though...

zeroday

I always appreciate good info posted on this board; original or not. In this case however it does seem fairly obvious that the original post was much more than research; it was straight out plagiarism. When copying verbatim someone elses work, you must absolutely give them fair credit...so here's the real deal; I wrote this article guys so at a minimum please PM me before using it. (j/k)

...And remember:
fart pipe diameter+number of racing stickers*spoiler height in centimeters= how many people think you look like a retard while you drive to work each day.

Remember that and you'll be just fine .

(now *that* is actually mine hehe)

SiGGy

LMAO, I think the funny thing is I didn't look at the post dates until someone mentioned it.

Of course, the past is the past.... lets move on

mattg

:ROFL: with those last two posts, tom2 and gavriil both have 1227 posts each. what are the chances of that?!?

EricL, care to speculate?

skyline

What are the odds ? This is one great finding mattg.

I really don't think whether or not he mentioned the source is all that important. The point is, he is trying to tell us something about hp and torque. So, what ? we need to footnote everything we say or type ?

tankmonkey

the point is gavriil told us nothing about hp and torque.

it was mr. augenstein that put it all into words for us. all gavriil did was provide us with a copy.

and that little bit of confusion is exactly the issue.

plagiarize v. t. To steal or purloin from the writings of another; to appropriate without due acknowledgement (the ideas or expressions of another).

- Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary


it probably wouldn't be such a big deal, but gavriil refused to acknowledge that the author of this work (which is copyrighted by the way) was not him, even when directly questioned about it by various members of this forum (in particular tom2).

as far as footnoting everything we say or type, it is one thing to type "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times" or "language is a virus from outer space" without citing dickens or burroughs, respectively. it's entirely another to cut and paste 2,651 words (verified in ms word) written by someone else and make that your entire post, with no other information save for your signature at the bottom. that is uncool.

skyline, if you had done the research and written that article, wouldn't you want some credit for your hard work? or is it just "finders-keepers" in this post-napster age?

gavriil

Thank you skyline. You are one smart man.

gavriil

The point is not if gavriil told you anything about torque, HP or anything else.

The point is if anyone here learned something new. If that happened to even one member here, THEN THERE WAS SOME BENEFIT from that action of mine.

For whatever it's worth, the reason I started this thread was because there was an argument between me and Tom about if torque or HP is what matters most in an all out drag race.



I never directly claimed it was me that wrote this either. And please dont tell me that my signature at the bottom suggests so cos splitting hairs is not my forte.

rmstoico

an easy way to understand torque vs hp in a physical sense:

a dremel tool:

hp would be similar to the rpm's, how fast it is capable of spinning.

torque would be the cutting power. when you push the dremel into the wood it bogs down, which is like torque. torque is how strong it is when applied.

same reason 18 wheelers are so high in torque. they arent fast (hp) but they dont bog down and are able to carry extremely heavy loads. understand?

tankmonkey

no, it was your avoidance of the issue in the subsequent posts that "suggests so."

scalbert - "How much copying and pasting did you do??"

gavriil - "Read the post."

tl_type_s - "now that I have my TL-S -- it's more appropriate to reconsider all of what you've stated."

gavriil - "I am glad you liked it. Thanks for the good words."

saabman4ever - "great job on the info. You really know your stuff.!"

gavriil - "Thanks for the good words folks. There is more to come."

tom2 - "You're pathetic. If you're gonna use someone else's story then let that be known. You didn't write any of that post. You merely copied it from the original author. I read that exact post a long time ago on LS1.com"

gavriil - no response (he edited tom2's assertion out of his quoted reply...)

tom2 - "Notice that gavriil still won't admit that he didn't write any of that original post. COME ON, BUD, LET'S BE A MAN AND ADMIT THAT IT WAS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE ELSE!!"

gavriil - "Borrowing other people's knowledge is called RESEARCH of which you would know nothing about. That is what people that go to good schools are asked to do."

technically, "borrowing other people's knowledge" without proper citation is what "people that go to good schools" call PLAGIARISM. most "good" schools have policies specifically forbiding the practice.

dtew - "(Um, the fine line between research and plaigerism is crossed if proper credit isn't given to the original source.)"

tom2 - "Thanks. Exactly what I'm trying to point out. Obviously, gavriil has some serious issues..... Yet he still won't give credit to the original author. What a dickhead."

gavriil - no response.

tankmonkey - "to avoid any appearance of plagarism, the copy of this thread posted to the "extremely useful topics" forum should probably be updated as well to include at least the author's name."

siggy - "Mabye just post the URL by itself next time.... I've read that same article online before, it's very good. And actually where I found the (torque*RPM)/5252 equation. Lot's of good info in there. Just kinda seems like plagiarism when you don't post where you got it from and or the fact it's not your words... But nice that someone took the time to look it up for everyone else"

gavriil - "Are you expecting a statement from me about this? Cos you will be waiting for ever." - posted 7/2/02 @ 5:05 pm cst.

gavriil - "I never directly claimed it was me that wrote this either. And please dont tell me that my signature at the bottom suggests so cos splitting hairs is not my forte." - posted 7/3/02 @ 9:11 am cst.

evidently "for ever" is approximately 16 hours for gavriil...

gavriil

Obviously you have a lot more time than I do for this, so you win.

The reason I responded is because I saw a ton of people getting involved in matter long dead.

I am just wondering why you chose to have SUCH A LONG answer to my second statement from before and NOTHING to write about the first, which was the whole point really.

I posted this for the possibility of people learning the difference and relation of torque and HP. Not to start another post within the post about whose is the article.

If anyone wants to talk about HP and Torque, I will gladly reply.

tankmonkey

either way, the article itself is great and I think everyone learned quite a bit from it. thanks again for regurgitating someone else's work and posting it here as your own.

but now the issue isn't whether people learned the difference and/or relationship of torque and hp, but whether passing someone else's work off as your own is in any way ethical.

the article is the article, you posted it, people read it, people will take what they want from it.

the problem is that some folks (including me, initially) come away from your post thinking that you wrote this wonderful article and that you deserve kudos for doing so. but, this isn't the case, is it?

whether you actively state that you wrote the article or you passively allow that impression to remain without attempting to dispel it, you're just being dishonest.

you had a multitude of opportunities to set the record straight and you didn't. so now, instead of a misunderstanding or "accidental plagiarism" we have a case where you are actively perpetuating a false impression. and your defense to this is that people found the article educational?!?? :sqnteek:

do you think they would have found it less educational if they'd known that a bmw guy wrote it or that you found it floating around out on the internet?

as far as where this dialoge is taking place, what could be more appropriate than to hold a discussion of plagiarism in a thread borne of a plagiarized article?!?

I've always enjoyed the articles you dig up and post to a-cl.com (including this one), and in most cases it's fairly obvious that you are merely relaying information, not creating an intellectual property of your own. I'd say that most folks (including me) have no problem with that.

the real problem here is that you became evasive about the source of the article when questioned, and simply stating that you found it on the internet somewhere would have resolved any problem before it began.

it appears to me, given your argument with tom2 vis-à-vis the torque/hp issue and your overall evasiveness on the source of the article, that you wanted tom2 (and others) to think that you were eminently knowledgble on the subject matter.

Tom2

Um, I have to say that I agree 100% with tankmonkey (obviously) on this issue.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm glad that I'm not the only member that spoke up against graviil's actions.

There's nothing wrong with using someone's words as long as you give proper credit to the original author. Sorry graviil, but that is EXACTLY what this all boils down to.....

gavriil

Closing this matter I have to say this:

Although I never wrote that the above article was written by me, the way it was presented certainly implied that it was. I was not trying to take any credit off of it, though I never directly claimed the opposite either and that made it look like the opposite as well. In any case, the article is not written by me, it is fairly obvious. And to tell you the truth, the article did not explain torque and HP the way I would prefer to explain it. The way I would prefer talking about these 2 matters can be found here:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=73849

Hopefully a discussion will start off of this so that we all learn something.